Grunge POLL: Nevermind or Dirt?

[WildRanger]

Which one?

For me Dirt is better by far.

[Elite]

Wow! Two polls in one day!

Ten by Pearl Jam.

[ChuckSteak]

Dirt.

[Phoenix87x]

For me, its definitely dirt.

[The Walrus]

Dirt has Rooster and Would? - those alone destroy Nevermind. But I don't like grunge, so...

[jammindude]

In this poll....Nevermind.

If Facelift or SG’s Louder Than Love were the competition, I would vote the other way.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think its gonna raiiiiin when I die

[Samsara]

Alice in Chains are not grunge. They are a metal band. Cantrell has said, and continues to say that, from the start. So I think you all know where I am going with the poll. 

[Stadler]

I have very little kind to say about Nirvana.   I thought they were wanna-be pretender jokes then, and while I give props to Cobain for walking the walk (that's a lot more respectful than it sounds), I kinda think they are wanna-be pretenders now (I do like the Unplugged set, though). 

I like Alice - a lot - but Dirt is my least favorite record by them; couple good songs - "Rooster", "Down In A Hole" - but a lot of it is pretty dark.   

I'd vote for Alice, but literally any other Alice record would be a lot easier putt.  And Soundgarden slays all of them.   

[WildRanger]

Alice in Chains are not grunge. They are a metal band. Cantrell has said, and continues to say that, from the start. So I think you all know where I am going with the poll. 

I don't get how are they metal. And which type of metal exactly?

[The Walrus]

"Oh yeah? It's metal? W-well let me tell you something, Jerry. It's GRUNGE!"

[Samsara]

Alice in Chains are not grunge. They are a metal band. Cantrell has said, and continues to say that, from the start. So I think you all know where I am going with the poll. 

I don't get how are they metal. And which type of metal exactly?

The genre thing is an age-old argument that will never have an answer. Cantrell said himself (paraphrasing here) - they are heavily influenced by Black Sabbath and other traditional metal bands. Whereas a lot of "true" grunge bands have a lot of punk influences, which AiC does not.

Again, that's a paraphrase of Cantrell, not my thoughts. Although mine align with Cantrell's enough.

[Anxiety35]

I'm a big AIC fan so I voted for Dirt. I like Nevermind but Dirt just does it for me. Raw, heavy, dark, Cantrell's guitar tone, and those vocal harmonies. I'm more of a hard rock and metal guy. Nevermind had more of a pop & punk thing going on.

Dirt has stood the test of time. I still enjoy it now as much as I did when it was released.

Them Bones
Dam That River
Rain When I Die
Rooster
Junkhead
Dirt
Angry Chair
Down in a Hole
Would?

All great tracks. Probably one of the greatest sophomore releases by any band (if you don't count the Sap EP). 

[bosk1]

Not really a huge fan of either, but AiC easily put out more solid material on a consistent basis than Nirvana, IMO.  And, yeah, I'm not sure how AiC qualifies as "grunge" either. 

[Stadler]

I saw them last year on a summer festival tour and man were they good live.  William and Jerry pull off that whole vocal thing like champs, live. 

[Rattlehead]

Easy choice for me, I think Dirt is better than anything Nirvana has ever done.

[Phoenix87x]

I worship Alice in chains and Dirt is awesome.  I was a massive nirvana fan back when I was like 9 and I listened to nevermind way too much, and now I find it corny. Honestly I can't even listen to it anymore. When it comes to nirvana, I much prefer bleach and In utero which are still in usual rotation

Something in the way is awesome though

[Zook]

Neither, but If I had to choose, Dirt because Nirvana sucks.

[eric42434224]

Dirt is a beast of an album

[robbob]

I like Nevermind for what it is, but AiC and Dirt is way better. Just listened to a few tracks over the weekend - Rooster, Down in a Hole and Would, all awesome tracks. Totally agree that they are a Metal Band, always were but just grouped in with the Grunge bands at the time, maybe because they came from Seattle, i know sounds stupid.

[jammindude]

As someone who listened to grunge from day one.   Top 5 grunge albums

1. Louder Than Love - Soundgarden
2. Superfuzz Bigmuff - Mudhoney
3. Facelift - Alice In Chains
4. Nirvana - Bleach
5. Pearl Jam - Ten

[Adami]

Pretty sure I'd vote for almost any album over Nevermind.

[Stadler]

As someone who listened to grunge from day one.   Top 5 grunge albums

1. Louder Than Love - Soundgarden
2. Superfuzz Bigmuff - Mudhoney
3. Facelift - Alice In Chains
4. Nirvana - Bleach
5. Pearl Jam - Ten

1. Apple - Mother Love Bone
2. Badmotorfinger - Soundgarden
3. Temple Of The Dog - Temple Of The Dog
4. Ten - Pearl Jam
5. Facelift - Alice In Chains (I'd like to put SAP here, but it's too short)
5.

[jammindude]

As someone who listened to grunge from day one.   Top 5 grunge albums

1. Louder Than Love - Soundgarden
2. Superfuzz Bigmuff - Mudhoney
3. Facelift - Alice In Chains
4. Nirvana - Bleach
5. Pearl Jam - Ten

1. Apple - Mother Love Bone
2. Badmotorfinger - Soundgarden
3. Temple Of The Dog - Temple Of The Dog
4. Ten - Pearl Jam
5. Facelift - Alice In Chains (I'd like to put SAP here, but it's too short)
5.

Difficult for me to even count MLB.   They were sort of a different animal than “grunge” to me.   I bought Shine EP when it was new (I *REALLY* regret selling it now).   I adored that EP so much and I was so excited for the album....and had even more anticipation when I learned of Andrew’s death before the release of the album.   But....I was disappointed with the final product.   There were some gems.   Stardog Champion was an immediate standout, but I was mostly unthrilled with the rest.   And the re-recording of Crown of Thorns sans Chloe Dancer was a major thumbs down for me.   The original was a BILLION times better.   

But MLB had potential.   They were going to be a completely different contribution to the budding Seattle scene.   Something that was more glam rock than grunge.   They were so important....and it just ended too soon. 

Initially, I was disappointed with Pearl Jam too.  The lead single Alive (IMO) is not a very interesting song.   After hearing it, I distinctly remember thinking, “Is this it???”   But Jeremy, Black, and Evenflow convinced me that the band really did have something going for them. 

[The Curious Orange]

Top 5 grunge albums:

1. Pearl Jam - Ten
2. Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger
3. Stone Temple Pilots - Core
4. Nirvana - Nevermind
5. L7 - Bricks Are Heavy

My girlfriend at the time played Nevermind ALL THE F*CKING TIME. It's overplayed, sure, but there's a reason for that. I also wanted to include bands like Nine Inch Nails, Jane's Addiction, Faith No More, RHCP, RATM, etc that weren't strictly grunge but were very much part of that whole scene at the time.

[Cruithne]

You've got to be choosing a very limited, post hoc definition of grunge to exclude Alice In Chains from the genre.

They were one of The Big Four of grunge, along with Nirvana (at the punk end), Soundgarden (also at the metal end) and Pearl Jam (slap bang in the middle) that were the very definition of the genre.

As for the poll: Dirt. I never quite got the appeal of Nirvana and probably haven't listened to anything off Nevermind other than Smells Like Teen Spirit since 1997 whereas I do still give Dirt a spin every now and then.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I voted Nevermind along with not so many people apparently.  I still dig that album alot!

[Samsara]

As someone who listened to grunge from day one.   Top 5 grunge albums

1. Louder Than Love - Soundgarden
2. Superfuzz Bigmuff - Mudhoney
3. Facelift - Alice In Chains
4. Nirvana - Bleach
5. Pearl Jam - Ten

1. Apple - Mother Love Bone
2. Badmotorfinger - Soundgarden
3. Temple Of The Dog - Temple Of The Dog
4. Ten - Pearl Jam
5. Facelift - Alice In Chains (I'd like to put SAP here, but it's too short)
5.

Difficult for me to even count MLB.   They were sort of a different animal than “grunge” to me.   I bought Shine EP when it was new (I *REALLY* regret selling it now).   I adored that EP so much and I was so excited for the album....and had even more anticipation when I learned of Andrew’s death before the release of the album.   But....I was disappointed with the final product.   There were some gems.   Stardog Champion was an immediate standout, but I was mostly unthrilled with the rest.   And the re-recording of Crown of Thorns sans Chloe Dancer was a major thumbs down for me.   The original was a BILLION times better.   

But MLB had potential.   They were going to be a completely different contribution to the budding Seattle scene.   Something that was more glam rock than grunge.   They were so important....and it just ended too soon. 

Initially, I was disappointed with Pearl Jam too.  The lead single Alive (IMO) is not a very interesting song.   After hearing it, I distinctly remember thinking, “Is this it???”   But Jeremy, Black, and Evenflow convinced me that the band really did have something going for them.

I am a massive MLB fan, and I don't consider them to be "Grunge" at all. But here's the thing, as I know you know, Nirvana, Pearl Jam...those were the pop version of grunge if anything. Mudhoney, Green River, and bands even less popular than that really was the definition of the movement.

I'd argue that while Soundgarden certainly started as grunge, by the time they hit Badmotorfinger, they were not. They had become a heavy rock band. Just a natural evolution of them as players, and Chris as a songwriter. Alice, I am sorry, but AiC was never a grunge act. They were lumped in because of the time period and location, but nothing they released was grunge.

However, that said, "grunge" was just a label, right? 

[Stadler]

I suppose it's enough time now, but... there's another thread here for musicians you don't like because of their personal life.  It's not exactly the same thing, but I thought then and think now that Kurt Cobain was a moderately talented, two-faced (not the right word, but "hypocrite" doesn't really fit either) dick who got lucky, right place right time. 

He didn't want publicity - but his face was everywhere (with those ridiculous white glasses).  "Oh I hate this band and I hate that band" but then tapes would come out of him playing songs from those bands.    "Oh, I'm so progressive" and then he'd say something that was just the same old hate and bias but just pointed in another direction.  "Oh, I'm not going to play my HITS".   Please.    There's a reason that - at least from this aging metalhead from Connecticut - it seemed like there was a tight knit group - from the ashes of Green River came Mudhoney and MLB and Pearl Jam, and Chris was there with Andy and Temple of the Dog, and Greg Gilmore (MLB drummer) playing on the Facelift sessions (Kinney broke his hand at the time) and Layne and McCready doing Mad Season (that almost made my list, BTW)... and yet Nirvana was nowhere to be found, and still aren't to this day. 

Look, Gossard and Ament made NO BONES about wanting to be huge.   Arm/Turner, and Cornell/Thayil wanted to stay pure.  They all three accomplished what they wanted to accomplish (GREAT moment in the Pearl Jam 20 documentary where Gossard and Ament cop to all this and then say "at one point, we had to decide if this was OUR band anymore, or if it was Eddie's; he's a one of a kind and when a guy like that comes around, you hitch your wagon to his star.  Tough pill to swallow, but you do what you have to do."  Paraphrasing of course, but it's a really insightful, and honest, moment), with no apologies or regrets.   Cobain? Oh, I wanted my album to sound like [name drops the coolest band he can think of]; what came out isn't what I wanted, but oh by the way, I'm not giving any of the money back or walking away from it.  Then when they did the record with Albini, they went against their agreement and had REM producer Scott Litt remix it to make it more radio-friendly.  Which is fine, but own it, man.   

Harsh, maybe, but it's how I feel. 

[Train of Naught]

Cantrell said himself (paraphrasing here) - they are heavily influenced by Black Sabbath and other traditional metal bands. Whereas a lot of "true" grunge bands have a lot of punk influences, which AiC does not.

What the fuck? Alice In Chains are grunge dude, pretty funny that apparently Cantrell isn't aware of this himself.

[Samsara]

Cantrell said himself (paraphrasing here) - they are heavily influenced by Black Sabbath and other traditional metal bands. Whereas a lot of "true" grunge bands have a lot of punk influences, which AiC does not.

What the fuck? Alice In Chains are grunge dude, pretty funny that apparently Cantrell isn't aware of this himself.

I don't agree, and apparently neither does Cantrell. 

Yeah, I am sure if you Googled a bit, you'd find Cantrell talking about how AiC is a metal band. I don't believe it was recent, in the last few years, but I read it multiple times in the past.

[bosk1]

NOTHING about AiC is grunge.

And I'll take a second to jump on the MLB wagon for a sec.  I, too, was a big fan of Shine and Apple.  (and I also had both, back in the day)  I can't even remember how I stumbled upon them, but I liked them right from the get go.  They were so different than anything else at the time.  Too bad we never got to see them for a prolonged time.

[Samsara]

NOTHING about AiC is grunge.

And I'll take a second to jump on the MLB wagon for a sec.  I, too, was a big fan of Shine and Apple.  (and I also had both, back in the day)  I can't even remember how I stumbled upon them, but I liked them right from the get go.  They were so different than anything else at the time.  Too bad we never got to see them for a prolonged time.

They would have been huge. I firmly believe that.

[bosk1]

I think so too.

On another tangent, for those who love the heavy-as-sludge guitar riffing, amazing vocal harmonies, and overall darkness of AiC's trademark sound, here's another band that was HEAVILY influenced by them in the mid-'90s before also folding up FAR too early after only two albums:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE4mgDkczck

[The Walrus]

I think AiC is definitely grunge. We hear a lot of grunge at work here and AiC is in regular rotation and fits like a glove with everything else that gets played. But I also think grunge kind of overlaps rock and metal and isn't exclusive to one or the other (I don't think of 'grunge' the same as I do 'rock 'or metal' - it's a style that can, but isn't required to, use elements of both). I certainly won't stop calling them grunge.

I will say I cannot stand their song 'Rotten Apple.' If that song was on Dirt, I would easily vote for Nevermind just because I hate Rotten Apple so much. What an ugly, awful song.