(Roth-era) Van Halen or Guns N' Roses?

[WildRanger]

These two bands were very big and significant on the American hard rock scene.
So which band musically impressed you better?

Gunners for me.

[The Walrus]

Hearing Appetite for the first time would probably be in the top 5 things, musically, that had the strongest impact on shaping my life. GnR pretty much changed my life in less than an hour and are still one of my favorite bands ever... I look up Van Halen related things when I want to laugh - even their hits make me cringe (You'll get some leg tonight fooor shoooore!).

[wolfking]

Van Halen, and I'm not even a huge Halen fan.

[cramx3]

Van Halen easily (DLR or Sammy), GnR never really clicked for me

[pg1067]

You could have asked about Gary Cherone-era Van Halen (or pretty much [any]-era [any band]), and I'd still not have voted for GnR.

[jjrock88]

Van Halen for sure

[WildRanger]

You could have asked about Gary Cherone-era Van Halen (or pretty much [any]-era [any band]), and I'd still not have voted for GnR.

What's so wrong with GnR?

[TheCountOfNYC]

Guns N’ Roses.

[Setlist Scotty]

Van Halen, and I'm not even a huge Halen fan.

This.

[max_security]

You could have asked about Gary Cherone-era Van Halen (or pretty much [any]-era [any band]), and I'd still not have voted for GnR.

Exactly this.

[El Barto]

You could have asked about Gary Cherone-era Van Halen (or pretty much [any]-era [any band]), and I'd still not have voted for GnR.

Fuckin'A. 

[The Walrus]

Okay, I'm genuinely curious why people voted Van Halen. I'm not trying to be rude and it's fine if you like them but they are just so freaking corny to me!

[pg1067]

You could have asked about Gary Cherone-era Van Halen (or pretty much [any]-era [any band]), and I'd still not have voted for GnR.

What's so wrong with GnR?

Aside from the vocals and the music, they're ok.

Seriously...the first time I heard GnR was Mr. Brownstone on the radio.  I legit thought it was a joke.  Unfortunately, it wasn't (or at least it wasn't intended to be).  Axl's voice was utterly stupid, and the music was nothing special.  Other songs started to make their way into heavy radio play.  Axl didn't use the same stupid vocal technique as he had on Mr. B, but his normal "singing" voice was hardly any better -- like listening to a bunch of cats in a room full of rocking chairs.  And again, the music wasn't anything special.  Tons of other band could put the same stuff out in their sleep.

Aside from all that, I could never figure out why they were becoming so popular, so I disliked them even more.  Then there's the band's image, which I never liked.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

Okay, I'm genuinely curious why people voted Van Halen. I'm not trying to be rude and it's fine if you like them but they are just so freaking corny to me!

Some of their stuff is corny, but corny is better that screeching cat vocals.  Plus, Eddie's a great guitarist.  I'm not a huge VH fan, but as I mentioned previously, I would vote for just about any-era of any band over GnR, so my vote for VH is less of a vote for the greatness of VH than it is a vote against GnR.

[LCArenas]

While I consider Appetite as a landmark in Hard Rock music, I find Guns N' Roses to be a somewhat overrated band. The Use Your Illusion records are good, and Spaghetti Incident is more misses than hits; but on the other side you have these monsters that are Van Halen and VHII... Fair Warning, man! And we haven't even gotten to 1984. Appetite for Destruction is amazing, don't get me wrong. But it's four solid rock albums against one. And I like A Different Kind of Truth more than Chinese Democracy, too. I have to go with VH.


Now this reminded me I have to listen to Fair Warning again, brb

[DT2003]

Definitely Guns N‘ Roses for me. I love Van Halen too, but never got into them as much as Guns N‘ Roses. I know I’m in the minority, but I actually prefer Van Halen with Sammy Hagar.

[El Barto]

Aside from the vocals and the music, they're ok.

Seriously...the first time I heard GnR was Mr. Brownstone on the radio.  I legit thought it was a joke.  Unfortunately, it wasn't (or at least it wasn't intended to be).  Axl's voice was utterly stupid, and the music was nothing special.  Other songs started to make their way into heavy radio play.  Axl didn't use the same stupid vocal technique as he had on Mr. B, but his normal "singing" voice was hardly any better -- like listening to a bunch of cats in a room full of rocking chairs.  And again, the music wasn't anything special.  Tons of other band could put the same stuff out in their sleep.

Aside from all that, I could never figure out why they were becoming so popular, so I disliked them even more.  Then there's the band's image, which I never liked.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

The only song on that whole album that's worth a damn is Rocket Queen, because everybody sounds cool singing through a flanger. 


As for VH, it's the same issue that came up in yesterday's Ozzy discussion. You just had to be there. Back then it was all new and foreign. EVH is reinventing the instrument. Dave is more showman than singer. Al's playing a kit that would embarrass MP. The band is overthetop crazy. Ozzy was scary and evil. Van Halen were sleazy and made chicks want to throw their panties on stage. Like Blizzard, WaCF was a turning point for me.

All that said, even without the nostalgia VH kicks the everloving shit out of GNR and it's not even a point of discussion.
(Rocket Queen really is a pretty good song, though.)

[The Walrus]

Interesting. GnR and Van Halen are almost total opposites to me, so I'm attracted to GnR. One's dangerous and full of anger, the other's fun and kind of sexy (to my mom, I guess?). I like the danger, personally. Feel like I was born in the wrong decade, I actually probably would've partied like no tomorrow at a Van Halen show back in their prime.

[TAC]

An interesting comparison.

For some reason, I feel like time has buried Roth era VH. Other than some guitarist giving a nod to EVH, I feel that they are somewhat forgotten. Which is a shame because they were freaking huge They really bridged the gap between 70's arena rock and the 80's arena scene. They were at their height at the turn of the decade as many bands were falling off, like KISS and Black Sabbath. The were fresh, exciting, and inspiring. They were the hottest ticket in town.

Now I will say that I like Appetite as much as any VH album. Maybe even more. GnR could've been great, but their run was way too short. Actually now that I think of it, each band had a 6 year run. But somehow, GnR felt like more of a flash in the pan.

[mikeyd23]

Interesting. GnR and Van Halen are almost total opposites to me, so I'm attracted to GnR. One's dangerous and full of anger, the other's fun and kind of sexy (to my mom, I guess?). I like the danger, personally. Feel like I was born in the wrong decade, I actually probably would've partied like no tomorrow at a Van Halen show back in their prime.

Yup, this is pretty much me. Unpopular opinion around here, but VH being goofy and silly never appealed to me as much as GnR being dangerous and angry.

[KevShmev]

Take the best 11 G N'R songs and put them on a record, and the first Van Halen record would still be better.

VH wins this easily. 

No disrespect towards hardcore music fans who do like them a lot, but G N' R always struck me as a band loved by casual music fans.  Ya know, the music fan who likes music, but can't name five songs by their favorite band.

[El Barto]

Interesting. GnR and Van Halen are almost total opposites to me, so I'm attracted to GnR. One's dangerous and full of anger, the other's fun and kind of sexy (to my mom, I guess?). I like the danger, personally. Feel like I was born in the wrong decade, I actually probably would've partied like no tomorrow at a Van Halen show back in their prime.

The danger is an interesting thing. After my post I googled "how many riots guns roses" and found some interesting reads. I'm pretty cool with danger in a rock band. In fact I think it's a great thing. Theirs seemed more based on being assholes than being crazy partying fucks, though. That's a big distinction. Cool danger isn't showing up 2 hours late for no particular reason, then stopping the show and starting a riot because the fans are understandably pissed. It's not starting a riot because you lost a contact lens after diving out into the crowd to attack a biker like a dumbass. Van Halen was dangerous to public order and decency, rather than for the fans. For them it was fun-loving, drunken debauchery and mayhem, not being a drug-addled self absorbed prick.  Somebody throws a water bottle at David Lee Roth he and sternly threatens "I'll come down there and fuck your girlfriend," and he was both serious and capable. Axl throws a tantrum and goes home. Fuck the other 19,550 people, I guess.

[The Walrus]

I've heard a lot of people - I think even Stadler said it himself more than once - talk about the danger as being some kind of palpable vibe at the shows, like things could explode and get wild and violent at any given moment. In a way I kind of like that, in fact I love it. The vibe backs up the music. They went for a totally different vibe than Van Halen did which is great, I'm not knocking VH for that, they just did it in a sillier, Californian "let's get wild and just have fun, fooor shooore!" way. Which is awesome - but I don't take them seriously, whereas I think Axl was creating real emotional art (seriously) with pieces like Estranged, Locomotive, Coma, etc. Just these monstrous epic rock pieces.

Or it could simply be because Van Halen is my parents' thing, and I went full bore into GnR world because it was so different. Who knows. Rock rocks. 

[kaos2900]

I voted for GnR, though if this was against Van Haggar I would have voted differently.

[The Walrus]

No disrespect towards hardcore music fans who do like them a lot, but G N' R always struck me as a band loved by casual music fans.  Ya know, the music fan who likes music, but can't name five songs by their favorite band.

I know I'm apparently the resident GnR fanboy but come on, what? Casual music fans tend to like lots of different bands. But they have a ton of songs that go way deeper than simple hard rock. In fact that's why a lot of people dislike the UYI albums... too much 'music' and not enough 'rock' if you know what I am saying

[Zydar]

Definitely Roth era Van Halen. I've never gotten into GNR.

[Stadler]

Aside from the vocals and the music, they're ok.

Seriously...the first time I heard GnR was Mr. Brownstone on the radio.  I legit thought it was a joke.  Unfortunately, it wasn't (or at least it wasn't intended to be).  Axl's voice was utterly stupid, and the music was nothing special.  Other songs started to make their way into heavy radio play.  Axl didn't use the same stupid vocal technique as he had on Mr. B, but his normal "singing" voice was hardly any better -- like listening to a bunch of cats in a room full of rocking chairs.  And again, the music wasn't anything special.  Tons of other band could put the same stuff out in their sleep.

Aside from all that, I could never figure out why they were becoming so popular, so I disliked them even more.  Then there's the band's image, which I never liked.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

The only song on that whole album that's worth a damn is Rocket Queen, because everybody sounds cool singing through a flanger. 


As for VH, it's the same issue that came up in yesterday's Ozzy discussion. You just had to be there. Back then it was all new and foreign. EVH is reinventing the instrument. Dave is more showman than singer. Al's playing a kit that would embarrass MP. The band is overthetop crazy. Ozzy was scary and evil. Van Halen were sleazy and made chicks want to throw their panties on stage. Like Blizzard, WaCF was a turning point for me.

All that said, even without the nostalgia VH kicks the everloving shit out of GNR and it's not even a point of discussion.
(Rocket Queen really is a pretty good song, though.)

I would change "WaCF" to "Fair Warning" ("Sinner's Swing", mofo!), and "Blizzard" to "Diary", but otherwise, this.  Even the Rocket Queen references (my favorite song on the record).   I happen to like GnR, and I'll reply to Kattleox next, but el Barto has it right as rain.  Especially the Roth part; he's a cartoon now, and the constant criticism of his vocals have really tarnished his image, but he was a ROCK GOD for about four years there.  I had a thread over at MP.com for a while about "Rock stars".  Not guys who are stars and play rock, I mean ROCK STARS.  The guys that could do shit that no one else could and you excused it because they were ROCK STARS.  The guys who were the inspiration for business people all over the world referring to their middle manager as a "rock star".   The guys who can wear ass-less chaps and even the male fans can think they look cool. 

[Stadler]

I've heard a lot of people - I think even Stadler said it himself more than once - talk about the danger as being some kind of palpable vibe at the shows, like things could explode and get wild and violent at any given moment. In a way I kind of like that, in fact I love it. The vibe backs up the music. They went for a totally different vibe than Van Halen did which is great, I'm not knocking VH for that, they just did it in a sillier, Californian "let's get wild and just have fun, fooor shooore!" way. Which is awesome - but I don't take them seriously, whereas I think Axl was creating real emotional art (seriously) with pieces like Estranged, Locomotive, Coma, etc. Just these monstrous epic rock pieces.

Or it could simply be because Van Halen is my parents' thing, and I went full bore into GnR world because it was so different. Who knows. Rock rocks. 

Stop saying "parents" and "mom" every time you say "Van Halen".   HAHAHA.

You and el Barto are both right, and to me, it's the difference between dancing on the edge and falling right the fuck off.    Dave was a showman, and when he was on the edge, he was SHARP, and el Barto said it:  his weapon was his cock.  "I'll come out there and ball your girl", and he DID IT.   But no one got hurt.   When he fell off the edge, you got that ridiculousness of his post-Yankee Rose solo stuff (or the deeper tracks on Crazy From The Heat).  Vaudeville.    When I saw GnR in '91, the electricity was PALPABLE.  You could feel it.  There was an  audible buzz from the crowd.  There was no riot and no violence, but you felt an energy that I recognize sounds fucking ridiculous for you all reading this.  But I was there, I was relatively sober, and I've remembered it to this day.  That's the edge.   When they fell off, you got the other side of what el Barto said:   some asshole in a "AIDS Kills Fags Dead" shirt wading into an audience with five security guards to smash some poor kid's camera, then run back to the bus and skip the next show. 

I like GnR, I like Axl (he KILLED it on the Chinese Democracy club tour), I like Slash (I wish Ed was producing music as prolifically as Slash) but to me:   Van Halen is to Guns and Roses as Kiss is to Motley Crue (and you all know what I think of Kiss).   

[TAC]

    The guys who can wear ass-less chaps and even the male fans can think they look cool.

I never thought it looked cool.

[The Walrus]

Stop saying "parents" and "mom" every time you say "Van Halen".   HAHAHA.

Okay. Van Halen (and Bob Seger) are ultimate dad rock. 

[KevShmev]

No disrespect towards hardcore music fans who do like them a lot, but G N' R always struck me as a band loved by casual music fans.  Ya know, the music fan who likes music, but can't name five songs by their favorite band.

I know I'm apparently the resident GnR fanboy but come on, what? Casual music fans tend to like lots of different bands. But they have a ton of songs that go way deeper than simple hard rock. In fact that's why a lot of people dislike the UYI albums... too much 'music' and not enough 'rock' if you know what I am saying

Right, casual music fans want something easily accessible.  Too much "music" is no good for the casual fan.

[TAC]

There is some amazing music on the UYI albums.
Coma, Locomotive, Breakdown, Estranged. GnR took it to the next level on those albums.

Such a shame they imploded before they could do anything else.

[KevShmev]

Given how uneven those albums are considered to be by most, combined with the fact that they were already releasing an album of all covers only 5 studio albums (4 really, since Lies was an EP) into their career, tells me that they shot their load early and simply did not have enough ideas and songs to have any kind of longevity. 

[robbob]

Van Halen for sure. GnR's few albums are great but didn't have the impact the way Van Halen did. Sure, they were a party band and lyrically were never taken seriously. But, when they came on the scene with VH1 it was huge for Rock and Metal. Most of the Top, classic Rock bands (Zep, Sabbath, The Who) best music was in the past so VH brought a huge amount of fresh air. Eddie's Tone and aggressive style was unheard of at the time.

[The Walrus]

Given how uneven those albums are considered to be by most, combined with the fact that they were already releasing an album of all covers only 5 studio albums (4 really, since Lies was an EP) into their career, tells me that they shot their load early and simply did not have enough ideas and songs to have any kind of longevity.

Respectfully, that isn't true at all. Don't forget, Lies was an EP released right after Appetite, and it is half covers. It wasn't for lack of ideas, it was because the band simply exploded. Slash's book gives a ton of insight into just how chaotic and insane the UYI tour was (and how wild the band had partied from even before Appetite's recording). Then you have all the drugs and fighting and bickering. It wasn't for lack of ideas, but rather strong personalities in the band clashing and Axl himself wanting full control of the band and its name (forcing everyone to sign a contract signing it over to him - there's also a bizarre story about Slash walking into the studio one day and seeing racks of synthesizers just lining the studio walls). Slash himself left the band after he both learned that Duff was out (this was 96 I believe) and that Axl had Paul Tobias rerecord Slash's own guitar parts without informing Slash.

They had tons of ideas but due to Axl's desire to control the band, perfectionism (see how long it took Chinese Democracy to come out and how nothing else has been released since), and telling this lightning-in-a-bottle lineup to effectively take a hike, the band fell apart. Shame.

[Dave_Manchester]

Guns n Roses for me. Appetite, UYI 1 and 2 and Chinese Democracy are all classic albums to me, in fact I think Chinese Democracy got my nomination for favourite album of the 2000s on a thread we had at Portnoy's forum. I think a part of it is that I was there for it all. I was in school when UYI was released, and I still remember us all passing those tapes around. I saw their massive Paris concert broadcast live on Sky TV, something which was unprecedented at that time. Got my first guitar at about 11 and set about trying to learn the November Rain solo. Happy times. And to this day a few of their songs are among the most important to my musical 'development', such as Estranged and Civil War. A great band in my opinion. Van Halen I've never really connected with, though to be fair I've only heard a couple of their albums.