Author Topic: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album  (Read 5911 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 1406
  • Gender: Male
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #105 on: March 05, 2018, 09:44:32 AM »
Raise The Knife was the only loss, the Score version shows how great the song could have sounded, if they had recorded a studio version.

Raise the Knife and Speak to Me, the rest are just meh (like most of FII, anyway).
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #106 on: March 05, 2018, 12:41:22 PM »
ToT sounds like a hodgepodge of jams that don't make coherent songs.

You're kidding, right?
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #107 on: March 05, 2018, 06:07:39 PM »
ToT sounds like a hodgepodge of jams that don't make coherent songs.

You're kidding, right?

I'm serious, and don't call me Kidding.

Raise The Knife was the only loss, the Score version shows how great the song could have sounded, if they had recorded a studio version.

Raise the Knife and Speak to Me, the rest are just meh (like most of FII, anyway).

Raise the Knife could've been good, yeah. I'm not a fan of Speak to Me, but I feel like a reworked Cover My Eyes might've had promise. Another grungy single.

Take Away My Pain was just terrible until it basically underwent a total rewrite



John Petrucci's draft of Take Away My Pain is not good. It certainly didn't make me feel anything, which I assumed was his intent.
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 27474
  • Gender: Male
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #108 on: March 05, 2018, 07:59:14 PM »
The electric version of Cover My Eyes is pretty generic. It was like 74 times better played acoustically.

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6095
  • Gender: Male
  • Rest in Peace
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #109 on: March 06, 2018, 12:29:03 AM »
More like 74 million. Wasn't Cover My Eyes one of the songs JP wrote when the record label asked for more material? It totally sounds like someone who was of the mindset of "Well, I just wrote a bunch of material, I don't have any new ideas right now.... here's a song." 
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Pettor

  • Posts: 145
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #110 on: March 06, 2018, 03:09:27 AM »
Almost forgot that Raise The Knife was scrapped for FII. Has anyone said why? Not sure how well The Score version represents the version they wrote for FII but if it's the same I can't understand why songs like You Not Me, Take Away My Pain, Burning My Soul, Anna Lee etc. was preferred. It has a catchy sound and I think fans would have loved it! I think it has "harmonies" as well  ;)

Offline Evai

  • Posts: 369
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #111 on: March 06, 2018, 03:48:45 AM »
Yeah, Cover My Eyes does sound like a song that was written in 20 minutes. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just that the 'quickie' nature of it doesn't really fit anywhere in DT's discography  :lol
You are acting very strange!

Nervous and on edge!

Offline DTA

  • Posts: 145
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #112 on: March 06, 2018, 06:46:26 AM »
I guess I'm in the minority when I say that I think RtK is one of their worst 10+ minute songs. Musically it is ok, but the vocal melodies are beyond awful and really ruin the song for me. It's literally my least favorite song from the entire FII sessions and doesn't hold a candle to LiTS or ToT.

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4388
  • Gender: Male
  • AnybodyListening.net
    • AnybodyListening.net - The Ultimate Guide to Queensr˙che's Original Lineup!
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #113 on: March 06, 2018, 08:27:41 AM »
To my ears, Raise the Knife had potential, but it is clearly a demo. It needed a lot more work.

Cover My Eyes is a crossover song. Simplistic, meant for radio, it would and could have worked. Speak to Me is a great track, and honestly should have been on the record.
AnybodyListening.net - The Ultimate Guide to Queensr˙che's Original Lineup

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26405
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #114 on: March 06, 2018, 08:55:17 AM »
One thing that I feel is never mentioned about FII is, they added a lot of tiny things in the background. E.g. 2:13 in New Millennium, Derek is scraping over piano wires.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #115 on: March 06, 2018, 10:05:17 AM »
To my ears, Raise the Knife had potential, but it is clearly a demo. It needed a lot more work.

Cover My Eyes is a crossover song. Simplistic, meant for radio, it would and could have worked. Speak to Me is a great track, and honestly should have been on the record.

All of this except for the part about Speak to Me. I don’t hate it I guess, it just doesn’t add anything.
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #116 on: March 06, 2018, 10:12:36 AM »
All this stuff about how the track list for FII should have been different makes me wonder even more how FII could have been a "truly great DT album."  Of course, that term still hasn't been clearly defined.  Nor has it been explained why none of the nine subsequent albums qualify as "truly great" (other than the comments that those nine albums contain "wankery" that wasn't present (to the same degree) on FII, but which has been part of DT's sound since the very beginning).
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6095
  • Gender: Male
  • Rest in Peace
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #117 on: March 06, 2018, 10:45:35 AM »
Cover My Eyes is a crossover song. Simplistic, meant for radio, it would and could have worked.

Then don't you have that thing happen where someone buys the album based on that one song on they heard on the radio, then they get pissed off when the rest of the album sounds nothing like that one song? Bands don't always complain about more people buying their albums and going to their concerts, though some do. It's just questionable whether or not that is a good long term strategy.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4388
  • Gender: Male
  • AnybodyListening.net
    • AnybodyListening.net - The Ultimate Guide to Queensr˙che's Original Lineup!
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #118 on: March 06, 2018, 12:59:54 PM »
Cover My Eyes is a crossover song. Simplistic, meant for radio, it would and could have worked.

Then don't you have that thing happen where someone buys the album based on that one song on they heard on the radio, then they get pissed off when the rest of the album sounds nothing like that one song? Bands don't always complain about more people buying their albums and going to their concerts, though some do. It's just questionable whether or not that is a good long term strategy.

If the song gets you in front of a lot more people, that's a good thing. Hugely successful bands have had that issue, and done just fine. Metallica immediately comes to mind with Nothing Else Matters, Kansas with Dust in the Wind, Queensryche with Silent Lucidity, even DT with Solitary Shell (which they stupidly refused to play on live TV which to this day I think was a really bad mistake).

Sure, there are some risks you take, but hey, back in 1997, if impulse buying off of one song pushed your record from 250,000 to gold, or from 600,000 to platinum, you take that every single time, and deal with the consequences later.
AnybodyListening.net - The Ultimate Guide to Queensr˙che's Original Lineup

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 8109
  • Gender: Male
  • Do a nice one for grandma
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #119 on: March 07, 2018, 08:52:48 AM »
Take Away My Pain was just terrible until it basically underwent a total rewrite



Yeah and even at that it still wasn't fully awesome until they played it live. Thats when the song became an amazing emotional song about JP's dad.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

I Love You...Poppin Fresh

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #120 on: March 07, 2018, 08:55:48 AM »
All this stuff about how the track list for FII should have been different makes me wonder even more how FII could have been a "truly great DT album."  Of course, that term still hasn't been clearly defined.  Nor has it been explained why none of the nine subsequent albums qualify as "truly great" (other than the comments that those nine albums contain "wankery" that wasn't present (to the same degree) on FII, but which has been part of DT's sound since the very beginning).

Truly great doesn’t have to mean the most perfect thing to ever exist. FII as released is a great, solid album that could’ve been made better if some of the b-sided had been fine-tuned for final release. But it’s still a great album in its own right.
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 8109
  • Gender: Male
  • Do a nice one for grandma
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #121 on: March 07, 2018, 08:56:48 AM »
To my ears, Raise the Knife had potential, but it is clearly a demo. It needed a lot more work.

Cover My Eyes is a crossover song. Simplistic, meant for radio, it would and could have worked. Speak to Me is a great track, and honestly should have been on the record.

Now I'm starting to wonder how different the Demos would be if those songs got worked on to be on the album. One song that would've been way different is Where Are You Now? I love that demo as is but I'm sure that Keys/Guitar solo melody would appear only one time.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

I Love You...Poppin Fresh

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #122 on: March 07, 2018, 10:18:17 AM »
Truly great doesn’t have to mean the most perfect thing to ever exist. FII as released is a great, solid album that could’ve been made better if some of the b-sided had been fine-tuned for final release. But it’s still a great album in its own right.

Ok, but I still don't understand the original premise of this thread.  What does "truly great" mean (other than that it means something less than perfect), and why does FII meet that definition but none of the subsequent albums do.

If you're just saying that you subjectively prefer FII to anything DT has done since, then I'll leave it at that, except to say that I obviously have a different subjective opinion.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline bosk1

  • Bow down to Boskaryus
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4077
  • Shopping Cart Apologist
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #123 on: March 07, 2018, 10:48:22 AM »
...and why does FII meet that definition but none of the subsequent albums do.

I prefer to just recognize this is just another instance of how people like to post the most benign subjective opinions online, but presented in the most edgy controversial ways possible because it somehow feels good to post opinions in a way that appears to belittle the opinions of anyone who doesn't agree.

If you're just saying that you subjectively prefer FII to anything DT has done since, then I'll leave it at that, except to say that I obviously have a different subjective opinion.

Pretty much.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #124 on: March 07, 2018, 02:48:37 PM »
...and why does FII meet that definition but none of the subsequent albums do.

I prefer to just recognize this is just another instance of how people like to post the most benign subjective opinions online, but presented in the most edgy controversial ways possible because it somehow feels good to post opinions in a way that appears to belittle the opinions of anyone who doesn't agree.

If you're just saying that you subjectively prefer FII to anything DT has done since, then I'll leave it at that, except to say that I obviously have a different subjective opinion.

Pretty much.

Oh you. :-*

Heck, I’m just glad I’m not the only one who feels this way.
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17827
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #125 on: March 07, 2018, 03:04:38 PM »
To each their own with their opinions on FII but to me, TA blows it out of the water so I personally disagree with the OP

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #126 on: March 07, 2018, 03:58:15 PM »
...and why does FII meet that definition but none of the subsequent albums do.

I prefer to just recognize this is just another instance of how people like to post the most benign subjective opinions online, but presented in the most edgy controversial ways possible because it somehow feels good to post opinions in a way that appears to belittle the opinions of anyone who doesn't agree.

If you're just saying that you subjectively prefer FII to anything DT has done since, then I'll leave it at that, except to say that I obviously have a different subjective opinion.

Pretty much.

So...basically, this thread should have been titled, "I love FII and don't like DT's subsequent releases (or don't like them as much as FII)."   :tup
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20379
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #127 on: March 08, 2018, 08:30:39 AM »
First off, most of the threads in the DT side are merely excuses to splooge DT related Smiles all over people's monitors. Let's not pretend that SJ's thread is unique here.

More importantly, we've discussed several different distinctions as to why FII is quite different from what came after. Obviously the switch from DS to JR was a fundamental change in DT's sound. There are several others that are similarly important. I think these are pretty interesting things to discuss; hence my uncommon participation in a DT thread.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 4739
  • Gender: Male
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #128 on: March 08, 2018, 08:54:15 AM »
First off, most of the threads in the DT side are merely excuses to splooge DT related Smiles all over people's monitors. Let's not pretend that SJ's thread is unique here.

More importantly, we've discussed several different distinctions as to why FII is quite different from what came after. Obviously the switch from DS to JR was a fundamental change in DT's sound. There are several others that are similarly important. I think these are pretty interesting things to discuss; hence my uncommon participation in a DT thread.

And it's extremely welcome participation, that's for sure.

FII is very different. Like you said, the switch from DS to JR was the obvious shift, but one can't help but notice just how much JP's guitar work also shifted from FII onward. FII is not my favorite DT record by a long shot, but it does contain jazzy, bluesy, fusion elements in JP's guitar playing that he has touched on since, but not nearly to the degree that he did on this record.

Kinda begs the question as to whether the change in keys player affected JP's stylistic shift (albeit slight) or if he was heading that way no matter what and JR simply reinforced it.

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4388
  • Gender: Male
  • AnybodyListening.net
    • AnybodyListening.net - The Ultimate Guide to Queensr˙che's Original Lineup!
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #129 on: March 08, 2018, 10:42:55 AM »

FII is very different. Like you said, the switch from DS to JR was the obvious shift, but one can't help but notice just how much JP's guitar work also shifted from FII onward. FII is not my favorite DT record by a long shot, but it does contain jazzy, bluesy, fusion elements in JP's guitar playing that he has touched on since, but not nearly to the degree that he did on this record.

Kinda begs the question as to whether the change in keys player affected JP's stylistic shift (albeit slight) or if he was heading that way no matter what and JR simply reinforced it.

The guitar work observation is spot-on, and is one of the reasons I love FII. I think JP played with a lot more touch and feel back then. It was obvious to me that he was expanding his boundaries a bit, and looking for a way to marry his style with what both the record company wanted for crossover appeal, Derek's more blues-based playing, and his own diverse musical interests.

As we all know, after the FII era, a lot of that jazzy, bluesy, fusion stuff went away for a more standard progressive metal sound. In combination with JR's style, DT just evolved a different way.

For me personally, I was really disappointed, and don't like DT nearly as much as I did in the FII days. But still a great band.
AnybodyListening.net - The Ultimate Guide to Queensr˙che's Original Lineup

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #130 on: March 08, 2018, 05:56:46 PM »

FII is very different. Like you said, the switch from DS to JR was the obvious shift, but one can't help but notice just how much JP's guitar work also shifted from FII onward. FII is not my favorite DT record by a long shot, but it does contain jazzy, bluesy, fusion elements in JP's guitar playing that he has touched on since, but not nearly to the degree that he did on this record.

Kinda begs the question as to whether the change in keys player affected JP's stylistic shift (albeit slight) or if he was heading that way no matter what and JR simply reinforced it.

The guitar work observation is spot-on, and is one of the reasons I love FII. I think JP played with a lot more touch and feel back then. It was obvious to me that he was expanding his boundaries a bit, and looking for a way to marry his style with what both the record company wanted for crossover appeal, Derek's more blues-based playing, and his own diverse musical interests.

As we all know, after the FII era, a lot of that jazzy, bluesy, fusion stuff went away for a more standard progressive metal sound. In combination with JR's style, DT just evolved a different way.

For me personally, I was really disappointed, and don't like DT nearly as much as I did in the FII days. But still a great band.

Yes, you’ve seized on it! What makes FII the last truly great DT album is that experimentation with different styles and crossover of styles. On Awake too, they really tried to capture the grunge sound and sort of make it their own. The Beatles did this too, first with rockability and rock ‘n’ roll, then with folk rock, then psychedelia, and finally Zeppelin-esque blues rock. Since then, that sort of diversity has basically flatlined in favor of generic prog metal.

See I did have a point...I just couldn’t properly articulate it. ;D
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 1406
  • Gender: Male
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #131 on: March 09, 2018, 06:56:22 PM »

FII is very different. Like you said, the switch from DS to JR was the obvious shift, but one can't help but notice just how much JP's guitar work also shifted from FII onward. FII is not my favorite DT record by a long shot, but it does contain jazzy, bluesy, fusion elements in JP's guitar playing that he has touched on since, but not nearly to the degree that he did on this record.

Kinda begs the question as to whether the change in keys player affected JP's stylistic shift (albeit slight) or if he was heading that way no matter what and JR simply reinforced it.

The guitar work observation is spot-on, and is one of the reasons I love FII. I think JP played with a lot more touch and feel back then. It was obvious to me that he was expanding his boundaries a bit, and looking for a way to marry his style with what both the record company wanted for crossover appeal, Derek's more blues-based playing, and his own diverse musical interests.

As we all know, after the FII era, a lot of that jazzy, bluesy, fusion stuff went away for a more standard progressive metal sound. In combination with JR's style, DT just evolved a different way.

For me personally, I was really disappointed, and don't like DT nearly as much as I did in the FII days. But still a great band.

Yes, you’ve seized on it! What makes FII the last truly great DT album is that experimentation with different styles and crossover of styles. On Awake too, they really tried to capture the grunge sound and sort of make it their own. The Beatles did this too, first with rockability and rock ‘n’ roll, then with folk rock, then psychedelia, and finally Zeppelin-esque blues rock. Since then, that sort of diversity has basically flatlined in favor of generic prog metal.

See I did have a point...I just couldn’t properly articulate it. ;D

But isn't that the genere/sound they created? We call it generic now because A LOT of bands have copied it, but that doesn't mean it's not original coming from them, it's the signature DT sound.

Also, all the jazzy/bluesy elements weren't present on the first three albums, so it's not like after FII they suddenly decided to completely shift the sound they had built before. FII was the big change in their sound, and not the other way around. SFAM has much more in common with IAW, stylistically, than with FII, and SDOIT was just the natural progression from Scenes.

I do agree on the thought that they got stuck in a similar mindset/sound from TOT to Black Clouds, but an album like TA, for example, is anything but "generic prog metal".
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 913
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #132 on: March 10, 2018, 01:28:08 PM »
I like Falling into Infinity, a lot.  I just like it less than a good portion of their other albums, some of which came before and some which came after.  I wouldn't call any of their albums generic though. There are those who don't like any of the albums from Train of Thought to Black Clouds, but I think more who like album X but not album Y, etc.  Those 4 albums are quite different from each other.

As to JP's guitar playing - I love his playing on old and new DT.  I lot of my favorite stuff has happened since FII.  If it's not bluesy enough for some that's cool.  But I think "feel" is a huge part of his playing and the emotion that goes into it is a large part of what sets him apart. If someone listens to him and all they get is "too fast and technical" so be it, but to my ears there's a lot more to it than that.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16159
  • Gender: Male
    • The Nerdy Millennial
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #133 on: March 11, 2018, 07:19:41 AM »

FII is very different. Like you said, the switch from DS to JR was the obvious shift, but one can't help but notice just how much JP's guitar work also shifted from FII onward. FII is not my favorite DT record by a long shot, but it does contain jazzy, bluesy, fusion elements in JP's guitar playing that he has touched on since, but not nearly to the degree that he did on this record.

Kinda begs the question as to whether the change in keys player affected JP's stylistic shift (albeit slight) or if he was heading that way no matter what and JR simply reinforced it.

The guitar work observation is spot-on, and is one of the reasons I love FII. I think JP played with a lot more touch and feel back then. It was obvious to me that he was expanding his boundaries a bit, and looking for a way to marry his style with what both the record company wanted for crossover appeal, Derek's more blues-based playing, and his own diverse musical interests.

As we all know, after the FII era, a lot of that jazzy, bluesy, fusion stuff went away for a more standard progressive metal sound. In combination with JR's style, DT just evolved a different way.

For me personally, I was really disappointed, and don't like DT nearly as much as I did in the FII days. But still a great band.

Yes, you’ve seized on it! What makes FII the last truly great DT album is that experimentation with different styles and crossover of styles. On Awake too, they really tried to capture the grunge sound and sort of make it their own. The Beatles did this too, first with rockability and rock ‘n’ roll, then with folk rock, then psychedelia, and finally Zeppelin-esque blues rock. Since then, that sort of diversity has basically flatlined in favor of generic prog metal.

See I did have a point...I just couldn’t properly articulate it. ;D

But isn't that the genere/sound they created? We call it generic now because A LOT of bands have copied it, but that doesn't mean it's not original coming from them, it's the signature DT sound.

Also, all the jazzy/bluesy elements weren't present on the first three albums, so it's not like after FII they suddenly decided to completely shift the sound they had built before. FII was the big change in their sound, and not the other way around. SFAM has much more in common with IAW, stylistically, than with FII, and SDOIT was just the natural progression from Scenes.

I do agree on the thought that they got stuck in a similar mindset/sound from TOT to Black Clouds, but an album like TA, for example, is anything but "generic prog metal".

If you think DT created that sound you must not have heard of Queensryche or Fatez Warning (just kidding).

And while there were no bluesy elements before, like I said, that sort of experimentation was present on Awake as well. It’s somewhat disingenuous to assert that it wasn’t happening in other ways just because it wasn’t happening in literally the same way before.

Furthermore, what this and Awake represented for DT was them thinking outside the box, which they definitely don’t do anymore. The last five or six albums have been the same thing in different packaging. Not exactly thinking outside the box.
Check out my blog!
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline SjundeInseglet

  • Posts: 136
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #134 on: March 11, 2018, 08:18:45 AM »
The last five or six albums have been the same thing in different packaging. Not exactly thinking outside the box.

I get it that you don't connect with DT the way you used to and that you prefer the stuff they were doing 20 years ago but this could not be further from the truth. Like it or not, "The Astonishing" isn't the same thing they've been doing in the last couple of years with different packaging. And there are sufficient stylistic differences between all the other albums that came before it to render your statement untrue.

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 2054
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #135 on: March 12, 2018, 12:54:31 PM »
The last five or six albums have been the same thing in different packaging. Not exactly thinking outside the box.

I get it that you don't connect with DT the way you used to and that you prefer the stuff they were doing 20 years ago but this could not be further from the truth. Like it or not, "The Astonishing" isn't the same thing they've been doing in the last couple of years with different packaging. And there are sufficient stylistic differences between all the other albums that came before it to render your statement untrue.
Agreed. While I certainly do appreciate the ambition of TA, and I do like some parts of the album, I would probably rank it as my least favorite album of there's. BUT, that doesn't mean that I would say that it continues as "the same thing in different packaging" - far from it.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Phoenix87x

  • From the ashes
  • Posts: 5577
  • Gender: Male
  • The Phoenix shall rise
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #136 on: March 17, 2018, 06:06:21 PM »
I think Scenes is pretty incredible. After that if fluctuates between good and bad, but it never quite got back to really extraordinary imo. (even though I LOVE TOT)
Live to ride


Offline Grappler

  • Posts: 729
  • Gender: Male
  • Victory, Illinois Varsity
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #137 on: March 19, 2018, 11:55:24 AM »
I never owned this album until this past weekend.  I always wrote it off since so many people claimed that it was DT's worst record.  Over the years, I've enjoyed the live songs on Once in Livetime, and Burning My Soul (obviously... :metal), so I figured I should check the studio album out.

To me, it's where the line is drawn between the band's more "organic" sound (I've used this to describe Queensryche's Q2K record too - it's just a feeling I get when I hear the album and it seems like there was just a general consensus to write songs and let the music flow) and the more "manufactured" or "constructed" sound of Dream Theater afterwards.  And that's not a bad thing - I love some of the DT albums that followed, but it really is evident that this album is the dividing line between the two eras.

Offline Scottjf8

  • Posts: 127
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #138 on: April 21, 2018, 11:30:25 PM »
What does Reddit have to do with this forum? Disclaimer, I don't know anything about Reddit.

Hmm... I would say ADToE is great, there is a noticeable drop-off with DT12, and I like TA quite a bit, but can't quite put it in the "great" category.

I apologize for being snarky. You came out with a strong opinion and I came back with mine unnecessarily strong.

Oh, Reddit is kind of like a huge forum so I focused most of my social media energy there. Anyway, no worries - this is DTF, we know drama.

Definitely agree that DT12 was a huge drop-off. It’s because of that album that I no longer consider myself a fan per se.

That's kinda lame.

I hated TA but still love this band.

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4388
  • Gender: Male
  • AnybodyListening.net
    • AnybodyListening.net - The Ultimate Guide to Queensr˙che's Original Lineup!
Re: Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album
« Reply #139 on: April 23, 2018, 08:06:32 AM »
I never owned this album until this past weekend.  I always wrote it off since so many people claimed that it was DT's worst record.  Over the years, I've enjoyed the live songs on Once in Livetime, and Burning My Soul (obviously... :metal), so I figured I should check the studio album out.

To me, it's where the line is drawn between the band's more "organic" sound (I've used this to describe Queensryche's Q2K record too - it's just a feeling I get when I hear the album and it seems like there was just a general consensus to write songs and let the music flow) and the more "manufactured" or "constructed" sound of Dream Theater afterwards.  And that's not a bad thing - I love some of the DT albums that followed, but it really is evident that this album is the dividing line between the two eras.

Still one of my favorite Dream Theater records. Absolutely more organic. I think the fact the band had to write so many songs for it to finally get the green light to record, really brought out something great in the band.
AnybodyListening.net - The Ultimate Guide to Queensr˙che's Original Lineup