2018 NFL Thread - The Dynasty

[Dublagent66]

Most.  Unanticipated.  Super Bowl.  Ever.   

Agreed.  Almost everyone outside of Boston is sick of the Patriots, and the NFCCG controversy has many feeling that the Rams don't deserve to be there.  I said early last week that this was the worst possible match-up considering the final four teams and I still think it. Imagine the excitement Saints/Chiefs would have created, but instead we get this snorefest.

Could not agree more.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Not a matchup I'm excited....but it's the last NFL game for months, so I'll watch every minute of it. I'll take New England 31-28, but will be pulling for the Rams for the sake of their fans, particularly the ones who had to watch their team win a ring in St. Louis

[El Barto]

Regarding Wade Phillips, I caught a quick bit on the NFL Network where he referred fondly to "the old days" when you could wear stuff like that on the sideline that "didn't have a swoosh on it." Doesn't Wade sit in the booth and, if so, why couldn't he wear it for the game (not that he'd necessarily want to in a climate controlled building)?

Yeah, I suppose he does. I was mostly just waxing nostalgic, the same as he. Coming from Dallas I have a longstanding regard for well dressed coaches.

And yes, I'm aware of the irony.

[pg1067]

Regarding Wade Phillips, I caught a quick bit on the NFL Network where he referred fondly to "the old days" when you could wear stuff like that on the sideline that "didn't have a swoosh on it." Doesn't Wade sit in the booth and, if so, why couldn't he wear it for the game (not that he'd necessarily want to in a climate controlled building)?

Yeah, I suppose he does. I was mostly just waxing nostalgic, the same as he. Coming from Dallas I have a longstanding regard for well dressed coaches.

And yes, I'm aware of the irony.

Guys like Tom Landry and Bum Phillips brought a lot of character to the game.  Belichik is a bit of a throwback to that era, and I really miss it.

[Cool Chris]

About the only thing I like about college football these days is that it seems to be the last of the major sports where the head coaching ranks are dominated by characters. But even now not as much as it used to be (Spurrier, Bowden, Switzer...)

[King Postwhore]

Few were excited by Pats/Patriots back in '03,

I bet King would wet himself over the thought of an all-Patriots SB.

It would be like watching a Christopher Nolan film.

[dparrott]

48 (Seahawks [a shitload] - Broncos [piss all]):  The less said about this abomination the better.  0/5 stars.

I became a Seahawks fan the week of that SB because of Lynch, and that game was both unbelievable and hilarious.  A safety on the first snap??? 

[dparrott]

I just realized today I sort of feel the Saints' fans pain.  I still grumble whenever the "tuck rule" game is mentioned.  One more reason for me to hate the Patricias.

[Stadler]

I just realized today I sort of feel the Saints' fans pain.  I still grumble whenever the "tuck rule" game is mentioned.  One more reason for me to hate the Patricias.

They're the exact opposite though.  I have no beef with a bad rule being enforced to the detriment of one team, because everyone knows the rules going in.  Socrates and all that.   But if you - meaning the league, the owners, the coaches, the players, and the officials - agree on a rule, call it all year, and then, at the most crucial of times, blatantly ignore it, that's reason to grumble.   

[dparrott]

I just realized today I sort of feel the Saints' fans pain.  I still grumble whenever the "tuck rule" game is mentioned.  One more reason for me to hate the Patricias.

They're the exact opposite though.  I have no beef with a bad rule being enforced to the detriment of one team, because everyone knows the rules going in.  Socrates and all that.   But if you - meaning the league, the owners, the coaches, the players, and the officials - agree on a rule, call it all year, and then, at the most crucial of times, blatantly ignore it, that's reason to grumble.

How about agreeing on a rule and NOT call it in the HISTORY OF THE RULES???  This is the ONLY TIME this rule was enforced.  If there was a history of calling it, fine, but there was not.

[KevShmev]

I think the beef is, not just that a call was missed, but that it was a PI, which is called all the time. I've lost track at how many times over the last few years that a ticky tack PI call gave a team the ball 40 yards down field or bailed a team out on 3rd and long, yet this was overlooked at a crucial time of a championship game. I still think the Saints have mostly themselves to blame for the way they, and especially Sean Payton, melted down after that, but as a Cardinals fan who remembers Denkinger, I full acknowledge that this is a non-call Saints fans won't ever get over.

[El Barto]

I just realized today I sort of feel the Saints' fans pain.  I still grumble whenever the "tuck rule" game is mentioned.  One more reason for me to hate the Patricias.

They're the exact opposite though.  I have no beef with a bad rule being enforced to the detriment of one team, because everyone knows the rules going in.  Socrates and all that.   But if you - meaning the league, the owners, the coaches, the players, and the officials - agree on a rule, call it all year, and then, at the most crucial of times, blatantly ignore it, that's reason to grumble.

How about agreeing on a rule and NOT call it in the HISTORY OF THE RULES???  This is the ONLY TIME this rule was enforced.  If there was a history of calling it, fine, but there was not.

It had been called before. It had actually been called in a NE game earlier that season, which contributed to them losing a game to the Jets under very similar circumstances.

[El Barto]

I think the beef is, not just that a call was missed, but that it was a PI, which is called all the time. I've lost track at how many times over the last few years that a ticky tack PI call gave a team the ball 40 yards down field or bailed a team out on 3rd and long, yet this was overlooked at a crucial time of a championship game. I still think the Saints have mostly themselves to blame for the way they, and especially Sean Payton, melted down after that, but as a Cardinals fan who remembers Denkinger, I full acknowledge that this is a non-call Saints fans won't ever get over.

Ticky-tack PIs get called all the time. Ticky-tack PIs get ignored all the time, too. Some crews are just more strict than others. They also tend to be a bit more forgiving in the post season. I'd say the question is how were the refs calling it the entire game. If they were being real hardasses about PI the entire game then this would be a bigger problem. If they were being lax then this makes a little more sense (though it was clearly a blown call regardless).

Personally, I've just learned to accept that bad officiating is part of the game. It sucks, but I think it generally evens out in the long run. It's no benefit to the Saints, who got royally hosed here, but it's not the first time this has happened and sadly it won't be the last.

[KevShmev]

I think the beef is, not just that a call was missed, but that it was a PI, which is called all the time. I've lost track at how many times over the last few years that a ticky tack PI call gave a team the ball 40 yards down field or bailed a team out on 3rd and long, yet this was overlooked at a crucial time of a championship game. I still think the Saints have mostly themselves to blame for the way they, and especially Sean Payton, melted down after that, but as a Cardinals fan who remembers Denkinger, I full acknowledge that this is a non-call Saints fans won't ever get over.

Ticky-tack PIs get called all the time. Ticky-tack PIs get ignored all the time, too. Some crews are just more strict than others. They also tend to be a bit more forgiving in the post season. I'd say the question is how were the refs calling it the entire game. If they were being real hardasses about PI the entire game then this would be a bigger problem. If they were being lax then this makes a little more sense (though it was clearly a blown call regardless).

Personally, I've just learned to accept that bad officiating is part of the game. It sucks, but I think it generally evens out in the long run. It's no benefit to the Saints, who got royally hosed here, but it's not the first time this has happened and sadly it won't be the last.

By and large, I agree, although I think officials tend to get tricked by certain teams or things.  Like in basketball, where certain players flop like crazy, yet the officials fall for it every time and call a foul on the defender. 

[Dublagent66]

Personally, I've just learned to accept that bad officiating is part of the game. It sucks, but I think it generally evens out in the long run. It's no benefit to the Saints, who got royally hosed here, but it's not the first time this has happened and sadly it won't be the last.

Bad officiating is unacceptable.  The NFL needs to tighten up the rules.  Some questionable calls or no-calls can be reviewed while others can't.  It's a double standard.  A totally missed critical call like that should be reviewable either by a challenge or the booth inside 2:00 mins.  Even if it wasn't PI, the H to H contact is a personal foul which is even more strictly enforced since the beginning of the season.  If the NFL is so gung ho for player safety, why was a personal foul ignored?  Especially at the expense of a team that would've most likely gone to the SB while the other team gets away with it and ends up going to the SB.  The NFL has issues that need to be corrected.

[Stadler]

Look, I'm a Patriots fan, and even I'll concede that Belichick has coached his receivers to automatically, after every incomplete pass, to stand up and make the "Jesus Christ pose".  You know what I mean.  That's a testament to the propensity to OVER call PI, in my opinion. 

[Dublagent66]

If the refs are professionals and good enough at their craft, they'll see through all that bullshit acting.

[bosk1]

I don't think you understand how pro sports officiating works. 

[pg1067]

I just realized today I sort of feel the Saints' fans pain.  I still grumble whenever the "tuck rule" game is mentioned.  One more reason for me to hate the Patricias.

They're the exact opposite though.  I have no beef with a bad rule being enforced to the detriment of one team, because everyone knows the rules going in.  Socrates and all that.   But if you - meaning the league, the owners, the coaches, the players, and the officials - agree on a rule, call it all year, and then, at the most crucial of times, blatantly ignore it, that's reason to grumble.

How about agreeing on a rule and NOT call it in the HISTORY OF THE RULES???  This is the ONLY TIME this rule was enforced.  If there was a history of calling it, fine, but there was not.

Uhhh...no.  for starters, the "tuck rule" was relatively new, having been put on the books in 1999, so there hadn't been a lot of history.  It was also a rule designed to deal with a situation that occurs rather infrequently -- unlike pass interference, which is in play just about any time the ball is in the air.  The rule was enforced -- against the Patriots -- four months earlier.  In a game against the Jets, the Patriots seemingly forced a fumble by Vinny Testaverde, but the call was overturned and ruled an incomplete pass.  It was enforced many other times until it was repealed in 2013.

Look, I'm a Patriots fan, and even I'll concede that Belichick has coached his receivers to automatically, after every incomplete pass, to stand up and make the "Jesus Christ pose".  You know what I mean.  That's a testament to the propensity to OVER call PI, in my opinion. 

Are there receivers on any team who don't do that?


My take on what happened in the Rams v. Saints game is that there's no good reason that there shouldn't be a booth official who can throw a flag.  There's also no good reason why the officials shouldn't be full-time employees.


On an unrelated note, I had the NFL Network on in the background yesterday, and someone was talking about how the players in the Super Bowl have to deal with halftime being much longer than it usually is.  It really made me think how utterly bizarre and stupid it is that the NFL disrupts its championship game to hold a rock/pop concert.  Can you imagine if, between the top and bottom of the 5th inning in game 4 of the World Series, they wheeled a stage onto a field so that Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift could play a few songs?  It's beyond stupid.

[El Barto]

Personally, I've just learned to accept that bad officiating is part of the game. It sucks, but I think it generally evens out in the long run. It's no benefit to the Saints, who got royally hosed here, but it's not the first time this has happened and sadly it won't be the last.

Bad officiating is unacceptable.  The NFL needs to tighten up the rules.  Some questionable calls or no-calls can be reviewed while others can't.  It's a double standard.  A totally missed critical call like that should be reviewable either by a challenge or the booth inside 2:00 mins.  Even if it wasn't PI, the H to H contact is a personal foul which is even more strictly enforced since the beginning of the season.  If the NFL is so gung ho for player safety, why was a personal foul ignored?  Especially at the expense of a team that would've most likely gone to the SB while the other team gets away with it and ends up going to the SB.  The NFL has issues that need to be corrected.

While it sucks pretty hard when we see things like what happened against the Saints, I think they're striking a pretty good balance between what is and what is not reviewable. The reality is that a good deal of officiating is subjective. We don't want every single instance of holding called on every play any more than we want every single instance of driving 56/55 cited. PI is a pretty good example of something that is largely subjective, as opposed to "did the ball cross the line."  "Did he interfere with the other player's ability to make a catch." That's something best decided on the field by professionals watching it in realtime, even though they occasionally screw it up. What happened to NO wasn't a matter of subjectivity, it was a missed call, but that doesn't mean every potential instance of PI should be reviewed in NYC, though.

With that in mind, if they were to make PI a reviewable call, I'd suggest that it only apply in the opposite direction. Make it available to overturn an undeserved PI call, which is something that actually can be judged objectively.

[DragonAttack]

Look, I'm a Patriots fan, and even I'll concede that Belichick has coached his receivers to automatically, after every incomplete pass, to stand up and make the "Jesus Christ pose".  You know what I mean.  That's a testament to the propensity to OVER call PI, in my opinion.

Lends a whole new feel to Soundgarden the next time I hear that track

[bosk1]

This is my new favorite thing ever:  https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/02/01/avengers-thanos-super-bowl-tom-brady-endgame-cartoon-video/

[Dublagent66]

I don't think you understand how pro sports officiating works. 

I understand that is doesn't work like it should and hasn't for quite some time.  A lot of pro sports fans out there would agree with that.  I suppose I'm questioning your use of the word "works".  It's rather vague.

Personally, I've just learned to accept that bad officiating is part of the game. It sucks, but I think it generally evens out in the long run. It's no benefit to the Saints, who got royally hosed here, but it's not the first time this has happened and sadly it won't be the last.

Bad officiating is unacceptable.  The NFL needs to tighten up the rules.  Some questionable calls or no-calls can be reviewed while others can't.  It's a double standard.  A totally missed critical call like that should be reviewable either by a challenge or the booth inside 2:00 mins.  Even if it wasn't PI, the H to H contact is a personal foul which is even more strictly enforced since the beginning of the season.  If the NFL is so gung ho for player safety, why was a personal foul ignored?  Especially at the expense of a team that would've most likely gone to the SB while the other team gets away with it and ends up going to the SB.  The NFL has issues that need to be corrected.

While it sucks pretty hard when we see things like what happened against the Saints, I think they're striking a pretty good balance between what is and what is not reviewable. The reality is that a good deal of officiating is subjective. We don't want every single instance of holding called on every play any more than we want every single instance of driving 56/55 cited. PI is a pretty good example of something that is largely subjective, as opposed to "did the ball cross the line."  "Did he interfere with the other player's ability to make a catch." That's something best decided on the field by professionals watching it in realtime, even though they occasionally screw it up. What happened to NO wasn't a matter of subjectivity, it was a missed call, but that doesn't mean every potential instance of PI should be reviewed in NYC, though.

With that in mind, if they were to make PI a reviewable call, I'd suggest that it only apply in the opposite direction. Make it available to overturn an undeserved PI call, which is something that actually can be judged objectively.

I get what you're trying to say Barto.  Refs are only human, but rules are rules and there should be no room for subjectivity.  For example, the rules clearly state what is and isn't a catch.  There's no such thing as "well, that's sort of a catch or that sort of isn't a catch."  The rules for PI are just as clear.  I don't see any difference between an undeserved PI call or a deserved PI that never got called.  It should work both ways and both can be judged objectively as they should.  What's the point in having rules if refs are allowed to lend their interpretation of the rules to a certain outcome that is questionable?  I'm having a difficult time with the inconsistencies of NFL officiating.  Yes, calls should be made on the field in real time, but I also think technology should intervene and help to make the necessary corrections for the sake of fairness.  Otherwise, rules are pointless.

[KevShmev]

Well, there are always going to be judgment calls in any team sport.

PI or not in football?

Ball or strike in baseball?

A charge or a blocking foul in basketball?

Interference or not in hockey?

I am not sure I would be comfortable making all or most judgment calls open to review and being overturned, although I did like one idea that said every coach would get like 2 challenges like that a game (for judgment calls) and if you are wrong, you not only lose a timeout, but get penalized 15 yards.  That would make coaches have to really think it over before throwing that kind of challenge flag, which can be a drawback if you are on defense and the offense hurries to the line to run a play before you can throw the flag, as you'd have very little time to decide, but then again if a (non-)call is flagrantly wrong to where you want to challenge it, that is often obvious immediately.

[dparrott]

Uhhh...no.  for starters, the "tuck rule" was relatively new, having been put on the books in 1999, so there hadn't been a lot of history.  It was also a rule designed to deal with a situation that occurs rather infrequently -- unlike pass interference, which is in play just about any time the ball is in the air.  The rule was enforced -- against the Patriots -- four months earlier.  In a game against the Jets, the Patriots seemingly forced a fumble by Vinny Testaverde, but the call was overturned and ruled an incomplete pass.  It was enforced many other times until it was repealed in 2013.

OK, in a video I saw discussing the play they said it was never called before.  I guess they were wrong.

And yes, halftime shows over history have gone from a marching band to a full on concert.  It seems the halftime show gets more viewers than the game.  Yea it is stupid.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

How the NFL yearly award winners and Hall of Fame class gets leaked and spoiled a couple of hours before the awards show starts baffles me.

[KevShmev]

Isaac Bruce still not making the Hall of Fame is a complete joke.

[The Trooper]

How the NFL yearly award winners and Hall of Fame class gets leaked and spoiled a couple of hours before the awards show starts baffles me.

It is not a live broadcast on tv. It starts 3 hours before it is on tv.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

How the NFL yearly award winners and Hall of Fame class gets leaked and spoiled a couple of hours before the awards show starts baffles me.

It is not a live broadcast on tv. It starts 3 hours before it is on tv.

They should fix that. It's ridiculous as is

[TAC]

2 possessions
Interception
Missed FG

Typical Pats SB 1st Quarter

[King Postwhore]

Ugly for the offense on both teams right now.

[Cool Chris]

So, who took the over?

[TAC]

Did I just see jammindude in a beer commercial?

[Anguyen92]

Oyyy, we've gone from Beyonce/Coldplay/Bruno Mars to Lady Gaga to Justin Timberblake to Maroon 5.  Honestly, this is a huge downgrade in comparison to previous years.

Honestly, I really think the people in the crowd near the stage are plants.  There's no way they would be this pumped for Maroon 5 in their own shows.

[gmillerdrake]

Good Lord that was a horrid halftime show.