2018 NFL Thread - The Dynasty

[Destiny Of Chaos]

My order...

1. PHI
2. K.C.
3. CHI
4. LAR
5. IND
6. SEA
7. HOU
8. N.O.
9. LAC
10. BAL
11. NE
12. DAL

[bosk1]

^I pretty much agree with that.  Except that you spelled "15. Seahawks" wrong.

Makes sense. I wouldn’t expect a 49ers fan to ever root for the Seahawks just like a Jets fan like me would never root for the Pats. If it’s any consolation, the only reason the Eagles rank lower is because they won last year.

There aren't really any teams left that I actively like and root for.  I would root for the Saints just because I like Brees and a few other individual players.  So I guess my rankings would look something like:

Teams I actively want to win:
1.  NO

Teams I wouldn't mind winning:
2.  Ind.
3.  NE
4.  SD
5.  Hou
6.  Chi

NFC East Times (aka, teams I would never root for, but could potentially want to see win if they are playing someone I am rooting against)
7.  Phi
8.  Dal.

Teams I do not want to see win, and I probably won't bother to watch if the SB is comprised only of teams from this category:
9.  Bal.
10.  KC
11.  LAR
12.  Sea

[jammindude]

My "pipe dream" matchups would be

Philly vs Seattle for the NFC Championship
LA vs KC for the AFC Championship. 

Seattle beats KC in the Super Bowl. 

[Architeuthis]

My "pipe dream" matchups would be

Philly vs Seattle for the NFC Championship
LA vs KC for the AFC Championship. 

Seattle beats KC in the Super Bowl.

Good call! 
The Seattle/Dallas game will be bitter/sweet for me no matter the turnout, as I'm pulling for both teams.   It will be a good game because both teams have the best running game in the NFL and are equally as hungry. Who ever wins this game will be the one I want to win the Super Bowl!

[dparrott]

For me in the SB I want
Seattle v. anybody but NE
Rams v. anybody but NE, LAC would be fun

I'm hoping Seattle comes to L.A. so I can go see it live.

[Dream Team]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25657298/antonio-brown-upset-steelers-skipped-practices-final-game

Boy that AB sure is a wonderful team player isn't he? What an utter douche.

[King Postwhore]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25657298/antonio-brown-upset-steelers-skipped-practices-final-game

Boy that AB sure is a wonderful team player isn't he? What an utter douche.

Ultimate me player.  Trade his ass right away.

[axeman90210]

I don't know Joe, I feel like they could probably get more for his hands

[Ben_Jamin]

My "pipe dream" matchups would be

Philly vs Seattle for the NFC Championship
LA vs KC for the AFC Championship. 

Seattle beats KC in the Super Bowl.

If we have that. I consider that an easy win.

[El Barto]

I don't think AB has any trade value. He's 31, the second highest paid receiver in the league, and a legendary locker-room cancer. A Dez Bryant scenario seems more likely, assuming the Steerlers have the cojones to do it. I'm not sure they do.

Dallas is a much better team than they were in week 3. It oughtta be a pretty good game. Dallas is improved on both sides of the ball, and the Seahwaks can't stop Zeek. At the same time Seattle has a great coach, a +13 TO margin, and no Earl Thomas, who nearly single-handedly beat Dallas last time around. I don't know yet, but I might wind up going with Carroll over Garrett.

Amazed the Bengals finally got rid of Marv. I mean, what's changed? After sixteen years enough is enough doesn't really carry much weight anymore.

And since it's that time of year I'll reiterate my long-held belief that teams shouldn't be allowed to court coaches until after the SB.

[TheCountOfNYC]

And since it's that time of year I'll reiterate my long-held belief that teams shouldn't be allowed to court coaches until after the SB.

Or at least teams shouldn’t be allowed to talk to any staff who are employed by a team that’s still in the playoffs.

[Stadler]

^I pretty much agree with that.  Except that you spelled "15. Seahawks" wrong.

You're right; it's "E-A-G-L-E-S".   Or, the way the kids talk these days, "C-H-I-E-F-S". 

1. NE
2. NO
3. CHI
4. IND
5. BAL
6. HOU
7. LAR
8. SEA
9. DAL
10. LAC
11. PHL
12. KC

[black_biff_stadler]

Is that a heart or brain ranking?

[Stadler]

Is that a heart or brain ranking?

Me?  Totally heart.   Though don't assume by that that KC leaps to the top; I've been vocal about my belief that they are the single most overrated team in football right now. 

[black_biff_stadler]

People say that but they also said Mahomes was gonna come back down to Earth and dude just had a top 10 all time QB season in his second year just like Marino (and his 5097 yards is equal to Dan's 5084 he posted in 1984 plus 13, his jersey number, if you're into coincidences.) They've got legit warts considering the porous D they're dragging around but shit is that offense stout. They're the only team in the playoffs that legitimately worries me, a Saints fan, in a Super Bowl meeting.

[PowerSlave]

I don't think AB has any trade value. He's 31, the second highest paid receiver in the league, and a legendary locker-room cancer. A Dez Bryant scenario seems more likely, assuming the Steerlers have the cojones to do it. I'm not sure they do.

They'll carry almost 22 million in dead money against their salary cap if they cut him, so that's definitely not happening. I wouldn't completely rule out a trade if some sucker/team offers them enough, and considering some of the stupid trades that I've seen over the years it wouldn't surprise me if someone pulled the trigger.

[Stadler]

People say that but they also said Mahomes was gonna come back down to Earth and dude just had a top 10 all time QB season in his second year just like Marino (and his 5097 yards is equal to Dan's 5084 he posted in 1984 plus 13, his jersey number, if you're into coincidences.) They've got legit warts considering the porous D they're dragging around but shit is that offense stout. They're the only team in the playoffs that legitimately worries me, a Saints fan, in a Super Bowl meeting.

Of the ten or twelve QBs that have passed for 5,000 yards, only three made it to the Super Bowl in that season (Marino, Brady, Manning) and let's just say, I'm tied for the same number of Super Bowl wins by QBs who have thrown for 5,000 in that season.

[Stadler]

I don't think AB has any trade value. He's 31, the second highest paid receiver in the league, and a legendary locker-room cancer. A Dez Bryant scenario seems more likely, assuming the Steerlers have the cojones to do it. I'm not sure they do.

They'll carry almost 22 million in dead money against their salary cap if they cut him, so that's definitely not happening. I wouldn't completely rule out a trade if some sucker/team offers them enough, and considering some of the stupid trades that I've seen over the years it wouldn't surprise me if someone pulled the trigger.

Not arguing with you, just asking:  if he's in the locker-room and not on the field, does the $22M hit really matter?  There's a point where it's worth $22M to have the other 54 guys hungry, focused and ready to play football hard on Sunday.

[PowerSlave]

I don't think AB has any trade value. He's 31, the second highest paid receiver in the league, and a legendary locker-room cancer. A Dez Bryant scenario seems more likely, assuming the Steerlers have the cojones to do it. I'm not sure they do.

They'll carry almost 22 million in dead money against their salary cap if they cut him, so that's definitely not happening. I wouldn't completely rule out a trade if some sucker/team offers them enough, and considering some of the stupid trades that I've seen over the years it wouldn't surprise me if someone pulled the trigger.

Not arguing with you, just asking:  if he's in the locker-room and not on the field, does the $22M hit really matter?  There's a point where it's worth $22M to have the other 54 guys hungry, focused and ready to play football hard on Sunday.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying they keep him and don't play him? Or are you saying to go ahead and cut him?

There's a couple of ways that I see this playing out:

1) He "calms down" over the off season and makes amends until the first time Ben doesn't throw the ball to him 50 times in a close loss at some point next season. Then he throws another fit on the sideline.

2) Some idiot like Jon Gruden with a ton of draft picks throws a reasonable offer in the Steeler's direction before April.

He's seen Bell get away with holding the team hostage the last couple of years and thinks that he can shit in their face. Of course, the entire organization deserves to eat that shit pie after the way that they've failed at handling their business the last couple of years, if not longer. I'm usually a fan of their front office because they've done things the right way for so many years, but this is a lesson that needs to be learned by the coaching staff on to the top of the organization.

I don't expect Mike Tomlin to grow any balls, and that's a reflection of a lack of will by those above him. As you can see, I'm done defending them.

[mikeyd23]

I don't think AB has any trade value. He's 31, the second highest paid receiver in the league, and a legendary locker-room cancer. A Dez Bryant scenario seems more likely, assuming the Steerlers have the cojones to do it. I'm not sure they do.

They'll carry almost 22 million in dead money against their salary cap if they cut him, so that's definitely not happening. I wouldn't completely rule out a trade if some sucker/team offers them enough, and considering some of the stupid trades that I've seen over the years it wouldn't surprise me if someone pulled the trigger.

Not arguing with you, just asking:  if he's in the locker-room and not on the field, does the $22M hit really matter?  There's a point where it's worth $22M to have the other 54 guys hungry, focused and ready to play football hard on Sunday.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying they keep him and don't play him? Or are you saying to go ahead and cut him?

There's a couple of ways that I see this playing out:

1) He "calms down" over the off season and makes amends until the first time Ben doesn't throw the ball to him 50 times in a close loss at some point next season. Then he throws another fit on the sideline.

2) Some idiot like Jon Gruden with a ton of draft picks throws a reasonable offer in the Steeler's direction before April.

He's seen Bell get away with holding the team hostage the last couple of years and thinks that he can shit in their face. Of course, the entire organization deserves to eat that shit pie after the way that they've failed at handling their business the last couple of years, if not longer. I'm usually a fan of their front office because they've done things the right way for so many years, but this is a lesson that needs to be learned by the coaching staff on to the top of the organization.

I don't expect Mike Tomlin to grow any balls, and that's a reflection of a lack of will by those above him. As you can see, I'm done defending them.

Yeah, the Steelers won't cut him and eat the money, they also won't keep him on the roster and not play him. Just doesn't make sense, it's also not the "Steeler way" (which matters, mind you).

If they could find a sucker team to trade AB to, I'd be down with that, I don't even care what the return is honestly. If a team is dumb enough to take that over-paid contract to a past-prime WR, locker room cancer, and a disappearing act when a HOF QB isn't throwing to him - make that trade.

[KevShmev]

A. Brown still had a great season and there is bound to be some team that sees him as a player that can put them over the top, as a short term solution.  And honestly, he has far surpassed OBJ territory and is now swimming in the same diva pool that T.O. used to.  Yes, he is great, but it is worth to put up with all of the drama and horse hockey?

And it has to be said: Ben Roethlisberger is easily the worst leader I have seen in the NFL when talking about quarterbacks in or destined to make the Hall of Fame. 

Between Ben and Tomlin, the Steelers' leadership is staggeringly poor.

[mikeyd23]

A. Brown still had a great season and there is bound to be some team that sees him as a player that can put them over the top, as a short term solution.  And honestly, he has far surpassed OBJ territory and is now swimming in the same diva pool that T.O. used to.  Yes, he is great, but it is worth to put up with all of the drama and horse hockey?

Agreed!

And it has to be said: Ben Roethlisberger is easily the worst leader I have seen in the NFL when talking about quarterbacks in or destined to make the Hall of Fame. 

Between Ben and Tomlin, the Steelers' leadership is staggeringly poor.

Huh? What does Ben have to do with the conversation? Also, he's actually been a really good leader on the team over the bulk of his career since he straightened his life out.

[bosk1]

And it has to be said: Ben Roethlisberger is easily the worst leader I have seen in the NFL when talking about quarterbacks in or destined to make the Hall of Fame. 

Between Ben and Tomlin, the Steelers' leadership is staggeringly poor.

Agreed.  To go on a brief tangent, that was one of the things that soured me on the Harbaugh/Kaepernick era in SF.  Harbaugh being a cowboy worked the first season with Alex Smith and part of that second season with Kaep.  But once Harbaugh's relationship with the front office began to go south, it became toxic.  And once-humble Kaepernick began to emulate a lot of how Harbaugh interacted with the public and others and started coming across the same way, and that lost him a LOT of respect among the public, players, and coaches.  And, yeah, it comes down to what you expect from your leaders.  Some players can get away with that.  But rightly or wrongly, we expect our team's QB to be one of the main faces and voices of the team, and expect him to not only be a great player, but to be a great leader as well.

[KevShmev]

Huh? What does Ben have to do with the conversation? Also, he's actually been a really good leader on the team over the bulk of his career since he straightened his life out.

Constantly calling out teammates to the media is being a great leader? I have seen numerous ex-NFL players in the last few days say how that is very poor form to do that.  Plenty of blame to go around, and I think it goes without saying that both Tomlin and Ben enabled A. Brown's childish behavior for years.  And what we are seeing now is the result.

[mikeyd23]

Huh? What does Ben have to do with the conversation? Also, he's actually been a really good leader on the team over the bulk of his career since he straightened his life out.

Constantly calling out teammates to the media is being a great leader? I have seen numerous ex-NFL players in the last few days say how that is very poor form to do that.  Plenty of blame to go around, and I think it goes without saying that both Tomlin and Ben enabled A. Brown's childish behavior for years.  And what we are seeing now is the result.

Dude, no. Putting AB's behavior on Ben is silly. Ben has called out teammates a couple times. When he does, the national media is all over it. Ben, the vast majority of the time, takes the blame when the team under performs. It's just not a story nationally when that happens. It gets reported here locally though. Also, sometimes that's what gets guys motivated, calling someone out doesn't make Ben a bad leader, maybe that's the best way to motivate a certain player. Wouldn't that make him a good leader? 

The coach has been an enabler, that's a point we can agree on.

[bosk1]

Anyway, as far as this weekend goes, here are my picks:

Ind @ Hou
Sea @ Dal
LAC @ Bal
Phi @ Chi

What I think will likely happy is pretty much in line with what I want to happen.  I guess those picks shouldn't at all be surprising, since I am taking the team with the best record in three of those (Dallas and Seattle are both 10-6, but as the division winner, Dallas has the "better" record by virtue of winning its division).  The only anomaly in taking Indy is easily explainable just by looking at how hot they have been in winning 9 of their last 10.  They are just a team on a roll right now, and I think that momentum alone gets them past the Texans.  I'm not sure how much farther it gets them.  But I think it easily carries them this week.  I could also see it potentially getting them much farther.  No team looks bullet proof this year.  A win puts them against KC next week, and I think that is a winnable game for Indy.  Put them in the AFC championship, and I don't hate their odds against any of the remaining teams.  The NFC might be a different story because of some better defenses.  But we'll see.

[El Barto]

I don't think AB has any trade value. He's 31, the second highest paid receiver in the league, and a legendary locker-room cancer. A Dez Bryant scenario seems more likely, assuming the Steerlers have the cojones to do it. I'm not sure they do.

They'll carry almost 22 million in dead money against their salary cap if they cut him, so that's definitely not happening. I wouldn't completely rule out a trade if some sucker/team offers them enough, and considering some of the stupid trades that I've seen over the years it wouldn't surprise me if someone pulled the trigger.

They eat that 21.2 million whether they dump him or trade him. Or, they pay him 22 million to continue being a butthead. I'd certainly shop him around. If I'm out 22 million no matter what I do, I'd rather have one of Gruden's #1s than a malcontent receiver. Failing that, I'd rather have nothing than a malcontent receiver.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

(Dallas and Seattle are both 10-6, but as the division winner, Dallas has the "better" record by virtue of winning its division).

I don't get this logic. Their records are the same. And if anything, Seattle's is more impressive since they had to contend with the Rams in their division.
 

[bosk1]

(Dallas and Seattle are both 10-6, but as the division winner, Dallas has the "better" record by virtue of winning its division).

I don't get this logic. Their records are the same. And if anything, Seattle's is more impressive since they had to contend with the Rams in their division.

It's the NFL's tiebreaker logic, so take it up with them.  Winning the division grants a higher seeding than getting a wildcard position, regardless of record.  It isn't about "more impressive."  I'm not sure what there is to not "get" about that.

[PowerSlave]

I don't think AB has any trade value. He's 31, the second highest paid receiver in the league, and a legendary locker-room cancer. A Dez Bryant scenario seems more likely, assuming the Steerlers have the cojones to do it. I'm not sure they do.

They'll carry almost 22 million in dead money against their salary cap if they cut him, so that's definitely not happening. I wouldn't completely rule out a trade if some sucker/team offers them enough, and considering some of the stupid trades that I've seen over the years it wouldn't surprise me if someone pulled the trigger.

They eat that 21.2 million whether they dump him or trade him. Or, they pay him 22 million to continue being a butthead. I'd certainly shop him around. If I'm out 22 million no matter what I do, I'd rather have one of Gruden's #1s than a malcontent receiver. Failing that, I'd rather have nothing than a malcontent receiver.

They do probably have some room under the cap since they won't be paying Bell. I didn't realize that they'd be stuck with the cap hit if someone else picked him up?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

(Dallas and Seattle are both 10-6, but as the division winner, Dallas has the "better" record by virtue of winning its division).

I don't get this logic. Their records are the same. And if anything, Seattle's is more impressive since they had to contend with the Rams in their division.

It's the NFL's tiebreaker logic, so take it up with them.  Winning the division grants a higher seeding than getting a wildcard position, regardless of record.  It isn't about "more impressive."  I'm not sure what there is to not "get" about that.

By that logic an 8-8 division winner has a better record than a 12-4 wild card. Better seed? Certainly, but the seed is a circumstance to winning a division, not by having a certain record.

[El Barto]

I don't think AB has any trade value. He's 31, the second highest paid receiver in the league, and a legendary locker-room cancer. A Dez Bryant scenario seems more likely, assuming the Steerlers have the cojones to do it. I'm not sure they do.

They'll carry almost 22 million in dead money against their salary cap if they cut him, so that's definitely not happening. I wouldn't completely rule out a trade if some sucker/team offers them enough, and considering some of the stupid trades that I've seen over the years it wouldn't surprise me if someone pulled the trigger.

They eat that 21.2 million whether they dump him or trade him. Or, they pay him 22 million to continue being a butthead. I'd certainly shop him around. If I'm out 22 million no matter what I do, I'd rather have one of Gruden's #1s than a malcontent receiver. Failing that, I'd rather have nothing than a malcontent receiver.

They do probably have some room under the cap since they won't be paying Bell. I didn't realize that they'd be stuck with the cap hit if someone else picked him up?

Bonuses are generally on the team that offered them. He signed a contract extension, and then renegotiated that, and both would have involved significant bonuses. That's all on Pittsburgh. It actually does make him more attractive to a suitor, though. He's hooked up for 2, maybe 3 years at ~12 per. If somebody thinks they can keep his head screwed on straight for that long it might not be such a bad idea. That's one helluva if, though.

Also, it seems the Steelers falsified their injury report by putting AB on it when he was actually sat for disciplinary reasons. Nothing will come of it, though. Rooneys don't get punished.

[Dream Team]

In the wake of this latest drama, I was just reflecting on trying to be a fan of this team in this era. It was known as a tough, hard-nosed, disciplined, championship pedigree team in the Noll/Cowher years. Then they selected verbal-diarrhea master Tomlin and he went to 2 Super Bowls with Cowher’s players, winning one, and since then has transformed the team into a sloppy, unfocused, undisciplined group, with a few notable exceptions.

Tomlin, laughably, was supposed to be a defensive expert. Under his expert guidance, his defenses can now claim to have undermined the most 300-yd, 3-TD, 0-int games by a QB that resulted in a loss. That’s right, that honor does not belong to Marino, Stafford, Brees, Ryan etc who would be the usual suspects. The other ridiculous stat that was brought out after JuJu fumbled the Saints game away is that Ben has had 11 game-winning drive attempts fumbled away, compared to only 4 each for Brady and Rodgers. One of those of course was notably in SB 45 by Mendenhall. Coaching malpractice from day 1.

So if Tomlin is somehow still around after Ben retires, I’m outta there. KC looks like a fun team to be a fan of 

[mikeyd23]

In the wake of this latest drama, I was just reflecting on trying to be a fan of this team in this era. It was known as a tough, hard-nosed, disciplined, championship pedigree team in the Noll/Cowher years. Then they selected verbal-diarrhea master Tomlin and he went to 2 Super Bowls with Cowher’s players, winning one, and since then has transformed the team into a sloppy, unfocused, undisciplined group, with a few notable exceptions.

Tomlin, laughably, was supposed to be a defensive expert. Under his expert guidance, his defenses can now claim to have undermined the most 300-yd, 3-TD, 0-int games by a QB that resulted in a loss. That’s right, that honor does not belong to Marino, Stafford, Brees, Ryan etc who would be the usual suspects. The other ridiculous stat that was brought out after JuJu fumbled the Saints game away is that Ben has had 11 game-winning drive attempts fumbled away, compared to only 4 each for Brady and Rodgers. One of those of course was notably in SB 45 by Mendenhall. Coaching malpractice from day 1.

So if Tomlin is somehow still around after Ben retires, I’m outta there. KC looks like a fun team to be a fan of 

Nah man, clearly it's Ben's fault 

Seriously though, as a life long Steelers fan, it's hard for me to argue with any of that. This is the issue with the way the Rooney's treat coaches, Tomlin doesn't even feel like his job is remotely in question, and why would he? As a whole, I like the idea of continuity with coaches when most other teams cycle through coaches every other year. But this is the downfall.

[KevShmev]

Huh? What does Ben have to do with the conversation? Also, he's actually been a really good leader on the team over the bulk of his career since he straightened his life out.

Constantly calling out teammates to the media is being a great leader? I have seen numerous ex-NFL players in the last few days say how that is very poor form to do that.  Plenty of blame to go around, and I think it goes without saying that both Tomlin and Ben enabled A. Brown's childish behavior for years.  And what we are seeing now is the result.

Dude, no. Putting AB's behavior on Ben is silly. Ben has called out teammates a couple times. When he does, the national media is all over it. Ben, the vast majority of the time, takes the blame when the team under performs. It's just not a story nationally when that happens. It gets reported here locally though. Also, sometimes that's what gets guys motivated, calling someone out doesn't make Ben a bad leader, maybe that's the best way to motivate a certain player. Wouldn't that make him a good leader? 

The coach has been an enabler, that's a point we can agree on.

I didn't put AB's behavior on Ben; I said Ben and Tomlin both enabled AB's childish behavior.

Ultimately, this is all on Antonio Brown, but I think it's obvious that the leadership at the top has been lacking, and that starts with both the coach and the QB.