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Offline Harmony

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So this happened today
« on: November 29, 2017, 04:47:02 PM »
I couldn't find an appropriate header for this story so I started one.  I guess it could be a catch-all for random weird stories if you want.

But how about that Bosnian Croat war criminal committing suicide by drinking poison at the UN today?  Wow.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/nov/29/un-war-crimes-defendant-claims-to-drink-poison-at-trial-in-hague-slobodan-praljak

Our local news organization slapped a huge warning label on the footage - MAY BE DISTURBING - but it only showed him drinking it, not the aftermath.  I wonder what he drank and how he managed to get it?  I mean, I know one can get almost anything inside of a prison but getting it into a courtroom at the UN??

Online kingshmegland

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 04:52:45 PM »
One of my brother's best friend at work is Bosnian in the horror stories he told me about that war is frightening. He was forced to fight for the Croatians or they would kill his family.  In the middle of his home town, his mother would bring him food while bullets are flying by. That's just one of many stories he told me.

He tells me all the time how how he appreciates America coming from that situation.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

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Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 05:01:25 PM »
I really like this guy. I have no problem with people killing themselves and a Last Act of Defiance is a damn fine reason in my book. I'm also fine with people cheating the hangman, so to speak. Göring was the classic example, but this guy was able to make a statement and a dramatic gesture, to boot. Furthermore, he did it in a relatively tasteful manner, as opposed to Budd Dwyer who, despite having an even better reason. did traumatize a few spectators and a television audience. My only criticism is that he could have caused a bit more of a scene after he drank the hemlock. It was probably sort of awkward for a minute or so afterward.



edit: I linked Dwyer to the wikiP article so that people would see that rather than googling him and perhaps seeing something they'd rather not.
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Offline Harmony

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 10:51:34 AM »
We are in agreement, EB.  I have zero problem with the guy taking himself out.  But it was definitely dramatic and unusual.  Was it really hemlock that he took?  It is still amazing to me he got it into that court room.

I had not heard of Dwyer before.  Thank you for the link.  I'm not sure I'd care to see that footage.


Next topic - I know this happened a couple of days ago, but I cannot stop watching it.  Amazing!

https://www.redbull.com/ca-en/soul-flyers-fly-into-a-plane-a-door-in-the-sky

Offline Harmony

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 03:44:14 PM »
I really do need to learn how to post a photo here.  But something tells me I'd need a hosting account and I already get enough annoying spam.  Anyway, Twitter gets a bad rap - rightfully so - but I'm so enjoying the exchanges between Roy Moore and Jimmy Kimmel today.

RM:  @jimmykimmel  If you want to mock our Christian values, come down here to Alabama and do it man to man.

JK:  Sounds great Roy - let me know when you get some Christian values and I'll be there!


RM:  Despite D.C. and Hollywood Elites' bigotry towards southerners, Jimmy, we'll save you a seat in the front pew.

JK:  Ok Roy, but I'm leaving my daughters at home!  P.S. - wear that cute little leather vest.

 :laugh:

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 04:47:52 PM »
While there is extreme bigotry from the "DC and Hollywood Elite" toward southerners, I cannot help but think much of that is warranted. I know I myself feel bigoted toward southerners, and I do not like that I feel that way, but then I consider what is prompting me to have those feelings, I do not feel so bad.

And dear Lord that comment about leaving his daughters at home. That is priceless.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Harmony

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 10:12:16 PM »
If I were going to engage in a Twitter war, I'd like to think I was intelligent enough not to pick on a very successful comedian who is well known for his acerbic style of humor.

Offline Stadler

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 07:36:32 AM »
While there is extreme bigotry from the "DC and Hollywood Elite" toward southerners, I cannot help but think much of that is warranted. I know I myself feel bigoted toward southerners, and I do not like that I feel that way, but then I consider what is prompting me to have those feelings, I do not feel so bad.

And dear Lord that comment about leaving his daughters at home. That is priceless.

But having lived in Atlanta and Charlotte for almost a decade (and having relatives in Georgia since the '70's), I can tell you that perception is misleading.   It's a different world down there, and you don't get the full measure of it from soundbites about the "racist judge".   Having lived there, and now living in Connecticut and seeing how the national press basically condescends to those people, it's gone a long way to my belief that there very much IS a liberal bias in media.   It's SOOOO easy to just look at the entire world through your own lenses, and the world doesn't work that way.    It just doesn't.   To be fair, having lived in Burbank for a year or so, it's kind of the same thing with LA.  As much as I despise that city, until you've been in the bubble it's hard to understand the mindset.   

My best friend - we've been tight since college, so that's almost 35 years - is an African American married to a Caucasian woman.   He lived in Alabama for about five years or so, and his parents have been in south Georgia for decades.   He's here now for work purposes, but he makes no bones:  he's in Alabama as soon as life lets him.   What does that tell you?   

Offline Progmetty

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 04:29:45 AM »
While there is extreme bigotry from the "DC and Hollywood Elite" toward southerners, I cannot help but think much of that is warranted. I know I myself feel bigoted toward southerners, and I do not like that I feel that way, but then I consider what is prompting me to have those feelings, I do not feel so bad.

As someone who lived in the south for the last 10 years I can testify that yes it is warranted to be honest heh.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Stadler

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 07:50:08 AM »
While there is extreme bigotry from the "DC and Hollywood Elite" toward southerners, I cannot help but think much of that is warranted. I know I myself feel bigoted toward southerners, and I do not like that I feel that way, but then I consider what is prompting me to have those feelings, I do not feel so bad.

As someone who lived in the south for the last 10 years I can testify that yes it is warranted to be honest heh.

Nothing is "warranted".  Saying the South deserves bigotry is no different than any of the other things we say are not tolerated like "Did you see what she was WEARING?" or "But Hollywood is ALL Jews!".   Yes, they do things differently, but I think it's like any region, and it's very easy to judge when you're on the outside looking in. 

Offline Progmetty

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 09:36:42 AM »
I didn't say deserve bigotry, I jokingly agreed with him that it is warranted. And I'm not on the outside, I'm totally inside the south.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Stadler

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 09:44:06 AM »
I didn't say deserve bigotry, I jokingly agreed with him that it is warranted. And I'm not on the outside, I'm totally inside the south.

I'm sorry boss.  I didn't get the joke.

And I did know you were "inside it".  For ten years, as I understand it.  :) :) :) :) :)    Seriously, though, my whole attitude changed when I moved there.  Before that, my experience with the south was the "Smokey and the Bandit" movies and "Dukes of Hazzard".   Yeah, that's part of it, but not all of it.   Not even MOST of it. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 09:49:08 AM »
I didn't say deserve bigotry, I jokingly agreed with him that it is warranted. And I'm not on the outside, I'm totally inside the south.
How much of that is based on your new work assignment? Seems unlikely to be based on your experiences in San Antonio.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 10:35:44 AM »
When I lived in Houston and San Antonio, I lived in very metropolitan settings and I was naturally selective of my hangouts and friends so I seemed to have subconsciously locked everything else out. And yeah you and I agree on southern hospitality with the door holding and the excuse me's but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand IMO, which is the mentality of Roy Moore and his followers.
So to answer your question, yeah it has a lot to do with the people I work with now. It's a bit of an eye opener when you realize you've been shutting yourself into a circle of like-minded individuals. And "like-minded" here doesn't mean people who agree with me politically, a bunch of my friends, including two really close ones, were Republicans and/or very right wing oriented but with them there was still that line of logic, fact checking and trashing conspiracy theory type arguments, that's what I call like-minded. None of that exists here. And I've been moving around locations and meeting new people almost biweekly who seem to be more clones of the ones before them, so it not just 3 or 4 guys I'm building my assessment on.
P.S.: Didn't wanna get into it too much since this already a diversion from the thread, but this is not specific to southern Americans. It's exactly the same in most middle eastern countries.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 10:48:21 AM »
Isn't that more indicative of education and smarts than heritage, though? Also, you're dealing with roughnecks which is a pretty small sample size. I'm not disagreeing with you, from what you've described in PMs it sounds like you're working with some cretins. I just wouldn't go so far as to ascribe their behavior to Southerners in general.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 11:24:29 AM »
A good chunk is roughnecks yeah but there are also a lot of engineers here, they're needed to run the show.
I don't think roughnecks are a small size sample, I'd say the people we know and hangout with are the small size sample. You gotta remember that oilfield roughnecks are not like construction workers, here you actually have to keep learning a considerable lot to progress from entry level.
Your "indicative of education and smarts than heritage" line got me thinking about it though, I definitely don't think it has a lot to do with heritage since to my experience and understanding; these are things that arose in the internet age as a direct result of misinformation. And they went with it cause it caters to their old values, which could be said of liberals as well but when was the last time you met a liberal with an unfounded conspiracy theory that guides his beliefs..
One thing I like about them though, they're not afraid to get into political discussions because there's simply no way you could convince them they're wrong. Not wrong ideologically, just wrong factually! I avoid political discussions with strangers cause as we discussed many times before; Americans prefer avoiding it at the work place.
Just last week a guy here asked me what I thought of the confederate monuments dilemma and we got into an hour and half discussion that concluded with him having to look up when the constitution was written since he thought it was written after the civil war and that I'm bullshitting him heh
The other day an engineer asked me if I personally knew anyone from ISIL and I told him just casual acquaintances, you know "Good evening, how was work today?", "Ahh the usual, finished decapitation early so they sent us home to get an early start on the weekend", "That is nice! It's good when an organization keeps their people happy like that. Well you have a good one now!". I might be mistaken but it took me laughing at my own joke to let him know I was kidding.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Stadler

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 11:27:28 AM »
The southerners I know are, in terms of intelligence, not that different from the people I know here in Connecticut.  There are sharp tacks and dullards in both places.   Religion is bigger in the south, in the sense that it is more a community there than up north, but that doesn't make one "dumb".   They WILL judge you on your degree of religiousness, but I don't find that much different than being judged by the car you drive here in Connecticut.  Or the school you went to. 

Northerners tend to be ruder at first, but if you warm them, they are kind and sincere.    Southerners tend to be far nicer at first, but as you get to know them there are harder edges under the surface.    We all get to the same place, but coming from different directions.   I've heard just as many uses of the word "n****r" in the north as I have in the south.   Moreso, actually, if you count Philly. 

I know this is controversial, but to me thinking "it's okay to date someone who's 15" is not a "Southerners are DUMB!" issue; it's more a difference in opinion, much like certain other predilections are more accepted in other regions.   Yes, there are laws, and yes there are studies in place regarding age of participants in certain relationships (brain development, what not) but that again doesn't go to "dumb".   The age of consent in Europe is generally between 14 and 16 (I think Germany is 14 if memory serves).   Is Germany "dumb"?  Deserving of bigotry? 

Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 12:01:52 PM »
A good chunk is roughnecks yeah but there are also a lot of engineers here, they're needed to run the show.
I don't think roughnecks are a small size sample, I'd say the people we know and hangout with are the small size sample. You gotta remember that oilfield roughnecks are not like construction workers, here you actually have to keep learning a considerable lot to progress from entry level.
Your "indicative of education and smarts than heritage" line got me thinking about it though, I definitely don't think it has a lot to do with heritage since to my experience and understanding; these are things that arose in the internet age as a direct result of misinformation. And they went with it cause it caters to their old values, which could be said of liberals as well but when was the last time you met a liberal with an unfounded conspiracy theory that guides his beliefs..
One thing I like about them though, they're not afraid to get into political discussions because there's simply no way you could convince them they're wrong. Not wrong ideologically, just wrong factually! I avoid political discussions with strangers cause as we discussed many times before; Americans prefer avoiding it at the work place.
Just last week a guy here asked me what I thought of the confederate monuments dilemma and we got into an hour and half discussion that concluded with him having to look up when the constitution was written since he thought it was written after the civil war and that I'm bullshitting him heh
The other day an engineer asked me if I personally knew anyone from ISIL and I told him just casual acquaintances, you know "Good evening, how was work today?", "Ahh the usual, finished decapitation early so they sent us home to get an early start on the weekend", "That is nice! It's good when an organization keeps their people happy like that. Well you have a good one now!". I might be mistaken but it took me laughing at my own joke to let him know I was kidding.
It's sad, but you've probably had too many opportunities to work on you ISIL acquaintances spiel. It's pretty funny, though.

And the thing about people being convinced they're right is a pretty common thing, as I try to remind people with every post with my sig. I work with somebody like that, and I generally equate it with simplemindedness.  She's a 65 year old woman with the intellect of a 10 year old (huge Trump fan--she relates to him). The same sort of people who hear something that goes over their head and automatically thinks it's because the person explaining it is a dumbass. In her case it's simply a matter of no education (elementary school dropout) and no need for better reasoning skills. If her heritage is to blame it's merely for fostering those traits and not applicable to most.

Good to see you able to post halfway regularly for a day, by the way.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2017, 12:57:21 PM »
It's sad, but you've probably had too many opportunities to work on you ISIL acquaintances spiel. It's pretty funny, though.
[/quote]

Believe it or not; that was improv! I probably could come up with something funnier if I put some thought into it hehe


And the thing about people being convinced they're right is a pretty common thing, as I try to remind people with every post with my sig. I work with somebody like that, and I generally equate it with simplemindedness.  She's a 65 year old woman with the intellect of a 10 year old (huge Trump fan--she relates to him). The same sort of people who hear something that goes over their head and automatically thinks it's because the person explaining it is a dumbass. In her case it's simply a matter of no education (elementary school dropout) and no need for better reasoning skills. If her heritage is to blame it's merely for fostering those traits and not applicable to most.

Agreed. I've personally changed a lot over the years and there are three clear rules now that run in the back of my head whenever I get into these types of discussions, 1. Never assume I'm smarter than the person I'm talking to, 2. My opinion is based on my readings and my experiences on the subject, so try to be empathetic, 3. I can change my mind when being shown new angles. All of which I try to follow through as much as I can and I do fail sometimes. And all of which become irrelevant when the person I'm speaking to does not adhere to logic, facts and logic are not relative things.
A good recent example was a couple of weeks ago there was a terrorist attack on a Masjid in Egypt and some Alex Jones type media outlets tried to sell the idea that Iran, Israel, Qatar and Turkey were the plotters to undermine Sisi's war on terror in Sinai. That's how gullible the nationalist media in Egypt correctly assume we're dumb as shit. Imagine the arguments I got myself into trying to explain to my fuckin cousin that these entities cannot be plotting together, let alone plotting together for that reason, but how would you know?! , because logic. The givens, the "since" and "therefore" of things!


Good to see you able to post halfway regularly for a day, by the way.

Haha thanks! I'm surprised myself. Usually when I have free time I spend it sitting back and watching something funny to unwind but today I'm feeling rather chatty!
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2017, 01:13:08 PM »
4. Never assume a person's stupidity makes them wrong. There's actually something to be said for the simplicity of seeing things through the eyes of a 10 year old sometimes.

And yeah, sometimes people make these rules way too damned hard to remember.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2017, 01:43:31 PM »
but when was the last time you met a liberal with an unfounded conspiracy theory that guides his beliefs..

Are you being serious?    You don't have to spit to find a liberal that thinks Corporate America is out to fuck you, hard, fast and long, up down and sideways.   All CEOs are in cahoots and it's a big ol' us versus them.    All cops are racist, trigger happy assholes, and it's just a matter of numbers before any of us are left at the side of the road in our underwear wondering what just happened.   

I could go on...

Quote
The other day an engineer asked me if I personally knew anyone from ISIL and I told him just casual acquaintances, you know "Good evening, how was work today?", "Ahh the usual, finished decapitation early so they sent us home to get an early start on the weekend", "That is nice! It's good when an organization keeps their people happy like that. Well you have a good one now!". I might be mistaken but it took me laughing at my own joke to let him know I was kidding.

That's actually kind of funny, but that's kind of what I mean about the South; they WILL ask you "if you know anyone from ISIS"; and we in the north immediately think "Oh, yeah, because all [insert stereotype] MUST know all others of [insert stereotype]" but I honestly don't think they mean it in that way.  It's a question that in the north takes more knowing and trust to actually ask, and they don't ponder the bullshit.  Put another way, they're less interested in worrying about whether you (collective) are offended or not, and frankly I don't think that's a bad thing. 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 08:59:24 AM by Stadler »

Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2017, 02:02:23 PM »
This is from the other thread, but I didn't want to drag both of them into the same off-topic discussion, so I'm putting it here.

I have a tendency to shake hands, and sometimes I will put the other hand on top.
A tendency to shake hands??? That's not exactly like a tendency to start fires or something. Down here if you don't shake somebody's hand it's because you're a dick. It actually contributed to somebody losing the Texas gubernatorial election a few years back. Is that one of the differences of living up North? Do y'all not shake hands with acquaintances or something? That's a difference I hadn't considered before.

As for myself, I consider the two-handed handshake to be a little more sincere than the casual "hey, what's up" variety. You don't do it often, but it certainly has its place.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2017, 09:00:18 AM »
Fist bumps, man.  I've even seen priests give a fist bump.   I do it with my 10-year-old step son to be "cool", but in an adult context?  Not on your life.   

Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2017, 09:16:13 AM »
Down here you're far more likely to do a 2 or 3 step soul brother handshake than a fist-bump. The handshake/hug combo is also pretty commonplace.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Harmony

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2017, 12:07:11 PM »
Some of us don't like handshaking because of being a little OC about germs.  I'll fist bump and elbow bump anyone.  I'd rather give a hug than shake a hand!  I don't know that handshaking is something I do as a rule without a whole lot of hand sanitizer on me.   ;)

So I should've posted this yesterday because now it seems statements from the WH are coming out that "we are looking forward to participating in the games" but yesterday, I was WTF?

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/winter-olympics-2018/nikki-haley-casts-some-doubt-u-s-athletes-2018-pyeongchang-n827331


Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2017, 12:13:03 PM »
I considered the Olympics to have been pointless once Russia got banned. Frankly, if we weren't' to participate either it'd actually be far more entertaining. Let the rest of the world have its shot. As for confusion, what else is new? America has no freaking idea what it's doing right now.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2017, 12:14:46 PM »
The Olympics have been pointless for decades.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline portnoy311

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2017, 04:16:29 PM »
That's a hot take.

I love the Olympics personally. Both versions.

Offline El Barto

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2017, 04:43:23 PM »
I prefer the Winter variety but I enjoy them both. I can't say that it actually means much, though. And without the Rooskies it'll mean even less.
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Offline portnoy311

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2017, 04:50:03 PM »
What meaning are you looking for? Does the world cup mean anything? The world championships in any sport? Super Bowl? World Series?
Ultimately it's sport at the highest level. Nothing more, nothing less.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2017, 05:39:02 PM »
As much as I want to trash the olympics, I won't, but I will argue that they are largely athletic competitions, not sports. Which is just terminology. If viewers derive enjoyment out of watching them, who cares what you call it. In terms of Barto's pot about meaning, I think he means your average fan of a sport team derives more enjoyment and pleasure from watching their team win their league's championship than their country winning the gold in the Pummel Horse.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Stadler

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2017, 07:24:17 AM »
For as long as I can remember (when  Jim McKay was a real broadcaster, and not the voice piped in over a video montage) I've watched and enjoyed the Olympics.   I pass on all the pomp and circumstance of the opening and closing ceremonies, but I love watching some of these people - who aren't going to earn enough to rub two quarters together - giving their all for four years to pop a binding in the semis or blow a hammy on the second heat.   Not that I want to see people fail - I don't - but it's a testament to the mantra "Man plans, God laughs" that I have found occasion to use more and more frequently lately.   

Plus, CURLING!  I love that sport.  There's always some cute Swedish woman or something sweeping like a jackass. 

Offline Chino

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2017, 08:53:22 AM »
For as long as I can remember (when  Jim McKay was a real broadcaster, and not the voice piped in over a video montage) I've watched and enjoyed the Olympics.   I pass on all the pomp and circumstance of the opening and closing ceremonies, but I love watching some of these people - who aren't going to earn enough to rub two quarters together - giving their all for four years to pop a binding in the semis or blow a hammy on the second heat.   Not that I want to see people fail - I don't - but it's a testament to the mantra "Man plans, God laughs" that I have found occasion to use more and more frequently lately.   

Plus, CURLING!  I love that sport.  There's always some cute Swedish woman or something sweeping like a jackass.

I was in a curling club when I went to school in Danbury. It was a blast.

Offline Harmony

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2017, 10:25:28 AM »
I enjoy the Olympics and I will watch them.  Especially the downhill skiing.

Offline portnoy311

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Re: So this happened today
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2017, 04:51:36 PM »
I remember being in love with basically the entire 06 female US curling team. I watched them a lot at 2 and 3 am when the matches aired.