Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[Stadler]

I'm watching the docs for season 1 before I watch season 2.    Mostly fascinating - the back story, the behind the scenes technology, the "how do they do that?", the George stories (they talk of him as if he was a god, it's amazing) - but there is some of it that is annoying. There's a whiff of "in crowd" with some of the lingo and terminology, and a certain level of back-slapping when it comes to talking about art that gets tiresome.   

I'll find a picture (and get her approval) but if anyone wants an idea of what my wife looks like, a blonder, skinnier (that's no judgment, just observation) Bryce Dallas Howard is a good start.

[ariich]

Working my way slowly through Clone Wars and it's starting to get pretty good. The first season was... fine, fun enough but had very little that felt particularly interesting or gripping. In the second half of season 2 now and it it's been getting a lot better throughout the season - the animation is better, the characters have more character, and there's more emotional and narrative tension in the stories, especially the Mandalore arc which I'm currently in.

[gmillerdrake]

Working my way slowly through Clone Wars and it's starting to get pretty good. The first season was... fine, fun enough but had very little that felt particularly interesting or gripping. In the second half of season 2 now and it it's been getting a lot better throughout the season - the animation is better, the characters have more character, and there's more emotional and narrative tension in the stories, especially the Mandalore arc which I'm currently in.

Cool. It only improves the further you go along. Culminating in an incredible final four episodes.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Here's a controversial opinion: The Mandalorian, as great as it really is, is full of fan service.

Hear me out. I'm a big Star Wars fan, and I'm even one to constantly defend the absurdly trashed sequels because I really don't think they're as bad as some people insist they are (mostly because haters are louder than supporters). To be honest with y'all, my favorite movie out of the three sequels is The Last Jedi. Although far from perfect, it's a challenging movie that I always tend to enjoy.

That being said, I of course loved The Mandalorian with all my heart but I really feel the extra-polarized comments in the lines of "one single episode was better than 3 movies olol thank you Filoni" are a bit out of place because The Mandalorian, although its very well-paced storytelling, has a fair share of fan service that is clearly aimed to "recover" the lost fans with a smart sweep of fan favorites like Ashoka Tano, Boba Fett and, of course, Luke Skywalker. Don't get me wrong, I was absolutely stoked to see these characters make an appearance in the show but in my book Boba Fett's return was every bit as shady and unclear as Palpatine's during Episode IX which of course received its fair share of hate from the loud, vocal fans. I mean, at least Palpatine has this whole dark side-cloning-unnatural things going on with him unlike Boba Fett that survived his encounter with the Sarlaac just for plot purposes. Once again, don't get me wrong, I was excited to see him and I'm also excited for his upcoming series, but there's no bigger fan service than bringing back a character that was made hugely popular by the fans with an expanded, greater role. No complaints here, but just an observation.

I'm really excited with the things Disney is doing with Star Wars, and I have nothing but gratitude because I really didn't think I would never watch any new live action Star Wars after Revenge of the Sith.

[ariich]

The Mandalorian is definitely full of fan-service but I don't see that as a bad thing, particularly because it's always done in a way that makes sense - and sometimes is integral - to the story being told.

I think part of the reason people feel comfortable with Boba coming back and less so with Palpatine isn't so much about what's more or less plausible (this is Star Wars, it's not really about plausibility), but what makes sense narratively. The fanbase has long considered Boba's apparent demise in the original films to be abrupt and anticlimactic so bringing him back (initially in TM, and then with his own show next year) allows the character to be developed and more of his story to be told. Whereas Palpatine's death at the hands of Vader/Anakin in ROTJ is absolutely essential to the story, so to then have him come back makes that moment in ROTJ much less meaningful.

I agree with you about The Last Jedi though, great film and my second favourite of the lot after Empire.

[Orbert]

I don't know if anyone would disagree that The Mandalorian is full of fan service.  To me, the important question is whether it's "too much" -- and everybody has different threshholds for that.  Personally, I think they've done a damned good job of incorporating elements and characters from other Star Wars properties and media, without relying on them or relying on people recognizing them in order for it to work.  I try to put myself in the place of someone who's never seen any Star Wars at all prior to The Mandalorian.  I didn't know who Bo-Katan, Ahsoka Tano, Boba Fett, or ever Luke Skywalker were before this.  I do now, because of how their characters were handled.  Organically, appropriate to the overall story, and without fanfare.  Actually I only know the name Luke Skywalker because I asked who that guy was who showed up at the end of Chapter 16.  (I don't think he was ever named on screen, though obviously everybody knew who he was.)

Nearly every character so far has been handled extremely well.  No previous Star Wars knowledge required, but lots of extra payoff for whatever else you're familiar with.  It's been pretty much perfect so far.

[Kotowboy]

I don't like how a lot of new movies now are just a nod to something else. Or a soft reboot - where it's chronologically a sequel but is basically structurally a remake of the OG movie.

I'm not big on fan service either. I loved The Force Awakens and didn't think Last Jedi was really that bad. Loved Rise Of Skywalker cause I actually WANTED it

to be 2 hours of silly over the top *entertainment* and that's what I got. I even enjoyed SOLO. But the Darth vader lightsaber scene in Rogue One did nothing for me.

[gmillerdrake]

The difference in the fan service in the Mandalorian vs the sequel trilogy is what ariich mentioned. Any of the perceived fan service in the Mandalorian ‘fits’ the story and is not forced into place. Its all been used in the perfect amount to effectively tell the story AND appeal to the psyche of the average SW ‘fan’. Most if not all the fan service the sequel series felt forced and didn’t have the seamless incorporation that was present in the Mandalorian.

Honestly.....and I’m sorry if this offends anyone and is taken personally......I think any of the whining and complaining about ‘fan service’ in the Mandalorian is being suggested by a segment of the SW ‘fan’ base that have an unattainable expectation of how SW should or has been handled and will NEVER be satisfied with ANY output of SW material. I don’t think you can handle or create a SW series or show any better than they’ve done with the Mandalorian.

[lordxizor]

The only time there was a little too much fan service for me was the first time they visited Tatooine. There were a few too many references crammed into that one episode. But it wasn't really that big of a deal. Other than that I've enjoyed the hell out of the fan service and felt it was just the right amount.

I think any of the whining and complaining about ‘fan service’ in the Mandalorian is being suggested by a segment of the SW ‘fan’ base that have an unattainable expectation of how SW should or has been handled and will NEVER be satisfied with ANY output of SW material.

I absolutely think a large chunk of the Star Wars fanbase, particularly of the generation like me who grew up with only the original trilogy, will never be happy with anything new. Ever. They'll continue to see it all and bash it at worst or nitpick it to death at best.

I personally have loved everything with the Star Wars name on it. I loved the prequels (though they haven't aged very well) and have loved the Disney era. Some is better than others of course, but it's all freaking Star Wars and as long as there's some familiar music, or sound effects, or characters, they're going to pull me in.

[lordxizor]

I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

[Adami]

I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Write and direct? No thank you.

Help develop? Sure!

[gmillerdrake]

I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Write and direct? No thank you.

Help develop? Sure!

Yeah. No directing. Develop and create.....absolutely.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Write and direct? No thank you.

Help develop? Sure!

Yeah. No directing. Develop and create.....absolutely.

Absolutely agreed in all accounts. Lucas' talent would be best used in an advising/development stage, as he could easily lay out a strong backstory with great characters that could be further developed by better writers/directors.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I do enjoy thoroughly the sequels but I agree that one of their weakest points is that the three movies are all over the place plot-wise. It's obvious there wasn't a master plan, or a finish line if you may, that could keep the whole thing tied up together. The prequels, as weak as they are at some points (sand, anyone?) have that going for them. They all feel very cohesive and the tone really develops throughout the three films.

This being said, I'm really not up for a reboot of the events after The Return of the Jedi. Star Wars canon is really confusing as it is, and although they have made a clear effort to differentiate canon from "Legends" it's still all over the place. I'd rather have a new trilogy, set maybe after the events of Rise of Skywalker or maybe the Old Republic (that's something that would be wonderful) with Lucas involved, but kinda letting the sequel trilogy stay as it is. Fans should not get to dictate what is canon/official and what is not. It's OK if you didn't enjoy a film and you just rather not watch it all, but going as far as to say "to me, The Last Jedi never happened" is somewhat silly.

[lonestar]

It's full of properly done fan service.

[jingle.boy]

I've got no problem with Boba surviving the Sarlaac.  He's a clone of a Mandalorian, and we've seen how Din can handle himself.  It's not unreasonable to think he somehow fought his way out of the Sarlaac (Din fought his way out of a Dragon, ffs), and spent a few years wandering around Tattooine trying to find his armour.

It's full of properly done fan service.

This too.  I felt that it all fit for a purpose, not shoe-horned in like Palpatine and Lando were for Rise of Skywalker.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah George Lucas cannot direct. Red Letter Media have explored this extensively. Even his film Red Tails - which they reviewed.

They point out that he directs action like he's directing a soap opera. One character says a line in close up. Cut to second character saying a line in close up. etc.

[Podaar]

I've got no problem with Boba surviving the Sarlaac.  He's a clone of a Mandalorian, and we've seen how Din can handle himself.  It's not unreasonable to think he somehow fought his way out of the Sarlaac (Din fought his way out of a Dragon that had previously eaten a Sarlaac, ffs), and spent a few years wandering around Tattooine trying to find his armour.

Added for emphasis.

[jingle.boy]

I've got no problem with Boba surviving the Sarlaac.  He's a clone of a Mandalorian, and we've seen how Din can handle himself.  It's not unreasonable to think he somehow fought his way out of the Sarlaac (Din fought his way out of a Dragon that had previously eaten a Sarlaac, ffs), and spent a few years wandering around Tattooine trying to find his armour.

Added for emphasis.

Good point!

[Stadler]

I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Why? Because of the loss of Carrie Fisher?  Or something else?

[Adami]

I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Why? Because of the loss of Carrie Fisher?  Or something else?

I assume because someone else made them already. And the characters from the original trilogy are all dead.

[lordxizor]

I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Why? Because of the loss of Carrie Fisher?  Or something else?

I assume because someone else made them already. And the characters from the original trilogy are all dead.

Exactly. This sequels involved Han, Luke and Leia. Their story is already complete.

[Cool Chris]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC9RI8_QYmw

Random video popped up on you YT feed: George Lucas in the background of some random documentary.

[Stadler]

I read a rumor that George Lucas still wants to make his original plan for the sequel trilogy. It's widely known that he wasn't happy that Disney scrapped his plans and didn't love what they came up with instead. He's been back on sets for The Mandalorian and seems to be opening up a bit to the Star Wars world again. Now obviously he can't make his sequels as planned, but he could rewrite the scripts with new characters and make a whole new trilogy in a different era. I'm sure these rumors will turn out to be nothing, but that leads to my big question:

How would you feel about George Lucas coming back to write and/or direct a new movie or trilogy?

Why? Because of the loss of Carrie Fisher?  Or something else?

I assume because someone else made them already. And the characters from the original trilogy are all dead.

Exactly. This sequels involved Han, Luke and Leia. Their story is already complete.

Oh.  I don't see any reason why George can't retcon the three sequel films.  Tell HIS version of those characters' story.  It's not like we haven't had five going on six versions of Batman, or three versions of both Superman and Spider-Man. 

[Adami]

Because that's never been Star Wars. Batman and stuff based off a different medium is just a different ball game. You have Batman and then decades upon decades of different people telling their version of that. You do not have that with Star Wars. With Star Wars you have one big universe and one big continuinity. Sure, there are a decent amount of continuinity problems, but those are all by accident, and not by design.

If George were to do his movies, he'd have to recast Leia at least, probably Ford too since he'd never come back.

But in the end, not every franchise can just do whatever they want whenever they want. This isn't based on anything but a movie series. So it's very different than Marvel or DCU or James Bond or what have you.

[Kotowboy]

Plus Lucas sold the rights to SW to Disney... If KK got desperate she might let GL do a trilogy and market it as GEORGE LUCAS RETURNS - knowing that it might

actually make some $$$ because people hated the "disney SW"... ( I don't ).

[lonestar]

I've got no problem with Boba surviving the Sarlaac.  He's a clone of a Mandalorian, and we've seen how Din can handle himself.  It's not unreasonable to think he somehow fought his way out of the Sarlaac (Din fought his way out of a Dragon, ffs), and spent a few years wandering around Tattooine trying to find his armour.

It's full of properly done fan service.

This too.  I felt that it all fit for a purpose, not shoe-horned in like Palpatine and Lando were for Rise of Skywalker.

Lando was hate fucked in there.

[Adami]

Plus Lucas sold the rights to SW to Disney... If KK got desperate she might let GL do a trilogy and market it as GEORGE LUCAS RETURNS - knowing that it might

actually make some $$$ because people hated the "disney SW"... ( I don't ).

I dunno. I think people were largely VERY split on 3 of the 5 Disney SW movies. I think, though obviously not exclusively, Force Awakens and Rogue One met largely positive reception. It was Solo, Last Jedi, and Rise of Skywalker that have issues, but plenty of people (though not me) think all of those movies are amazing. And they all did well enough financially.

Plus, the Mandalorian has been getting rave reviews for the most part. By the end of 2022 we'll have a good idea how well SW is doing. By that point, we'll have a few more live action shows and I think one more movie, though I might be a year off on that movie.

People generally seem to like the cartoons but they don't have the biggest audience. So if people like the Ahsoka show, the Obi-Wan show, Bobba Fett, and the others, then SW is doing fine. If a good amount of those shows fail, we're in trouble.

[lordxizor]

I wouldn't mind Lucas taking on a more official creative consultant type of role. He give his two cents on scripts and major plot lines, maybe help create characters or something. He'd do his best to keep the Star Wars universe within the guidelines of what he intended. But he wouldn't be writing scripts or directing. I would like to see that I think.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I wouldn't mind Lucas taking on a more official creative consultant type of role. He give his two cents on scripts and major plot lines, maybe help create characters or something. He'd do his best to keep the Star Wars universe within the guidelines of what he intended. But he wouldn't be writing scripts or directing. I would like to see that I think.

Regarding your user name, I know it's highly unlikely and a long shot but how cool would a Shadows of the Empire film be? The game was amazing, and so was the story behind it.

[gmillerdrake]

I read a cool idea online a couple weeks ago for a new take and look for a Star Wars series/trilogy/movie. Basically, it'd be set in that universe but not attached to anything we know at all....the only thing that connects what we know of Star Wars and this idea is the Force, and both sides of it. BUT, the premise behind this story would be it's set in a (more or less) Sith/Dark Side world and told from the point of view that the Dark side is the prevailing 'side' of the Force....the 'good' side so to speak....and that light side force users are in the minority.....but it then would follow a couple characters who are drawn to the 'light' side and are trying to break away from the dark side. I thought that'd be an interesting premise and could have the potential for a cool story.

[ariich]

I read a cool idea online a couple weeks ago for a new take and look for a Star Wars series/trilogy/movie. Basically, it'd be set in that universe but not attached to anything we know at all....the only thing that connects what we know of Star Wars and this idea is the Force, and both sides of it. BUT, the premise behind this story would be it's set in a (more or less) Sith/Dark Side world and told from the point of view that the Dark side is the prevailing 'side' of the Force....the 'good' side so to speak....and that light side force users are in the minority.....but it then would follow a couple characters who are drawn to the 'light' side and are trying to break away from the dark side. I thought that'd be an interesting premise and could have the potential for a cool story.

There have been stories a little like that in some of the video games, and yeah it could be pretty cool, depending on how they do it.

[lordxizor]

I wouldn't mind Lucas taking on a more official creative consultant type of role. He give his two cents on scripts and major plot lines, maybe help create characters or something. He'd do his best to keep the Star Wars universe within the guidelines of what he intended. But he wouldn't be writing scripts or directing. I would like to see that I think.

Regarding your user name, I know it's highly unlikely and a long shot but how cool would a Shadows of the Empire film be? The game was amazing, and so was the story behind it.

Man, its been a long freaking time since I've read the book. I didn't even know there was a game. I've been using this username for 25 years now. Yikes...

[Cool Chris]

I didn't even know there was a game. I've been using this username for 25 years now. Yikes...

That's hilarious! It was an amazing game at the time. That opening level flying the speeder on Hoth was really the first time in a game you could feel like you were in the SW universe (my experience anyway). Some of the levels weren't as good as others, but it was ambitious to have such varied gameplay. Have not played in years, might seem really dated now.

[Stadler]

^  That was the Tie Fighters and X-Wings from the flying simulators that came out.  I even went and bought a joystick! You could fly the craft with the stick and reach over and hit keys on the keyboard, and it felt like you were in the cockpit!

Anyway, I watched the end of The Mandalorian.    I wish I watched it without the hype.  It was excellent, but as soon as I saw the X-Wing, I knew what was up, and it seemed to come... earlier than I expected.   I didn't cry when Mando had his moment, though it was moving.   The special effects were great, and really made it meaningful.  I don't know; I'm more intrigued with the Bo-Katan, Dark Sabre storyline, though I just don't get the affinity for Katee Sackhoff.   

I will probably watch the Boba series now, though, if only to see more of Ming-Na Wen (she's almost 60!!! Can you believe that???).   

[gmillerdrake]

I just don't get the affinity for Katee Sackhoff.   

You shut your mouth!!! I will beat you with a toy red light saber      That's my girl your talking about. She's awesome in everything she does.