Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)  (Read 86325 times)

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Offline faizoff

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2310 on: September 10, 2020, 06:38:06 AM »
From what I read, they kinda wanted to emulate George when he did the original trilogy and didn't have a whole set plan when doing a trilogy. Plus JJ never intended to be around for the next two movies so he just started things and passed on to the next set of people.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2311 on: September 10, 2020, 08:07:58 AM »
I wonder if they could shake the Lucasfilm leadership, and put some lore nerd like Filoni in charge of the creative decisions. Have KK be in charge of the financial side of things, and Filoni make the decisions regarding the future shows and movies.

I donít understand why Disney hasnít done this yet. Itís fairly evident that Filoni is a Lucas disciple and holds the lore and history of SW sacred.....and understands how to craft the stories and characters accordingly. Heís literally custom fit for the role of mapping out the future of SW.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2312 on: September 10, 2020, 08:09:57 AM »
From what I read, they kinda wanted to emulate George when he did the original trilogy and didn't have a whole set plan when doing a trilogy. Plus JJ never intended to be around for the next two movies so he just started things and passed on to the next set of people.

You can have both, though; just because JJ didn't intend to be around for the next two movies doesn't mean that there can't be an arc or a framework.   Harry Potter. Bond.  Any of ten or more other "franchise" efforts.   I wouldn't really be interested in a ton of reconned reboots, like Spider-Man, but you can have continuity in story while still having fluidity and creativity in the feel, narrative and visuals. 

"Rey as a Skywalker/Palpatine" is a pretty broad, fundamental component; you can still take that and go in a multitude of directions.  Just look at how Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy, the droids, etc. were incorporated; they didn't go and make Luke a hippy lesbian marijuana farmer, and yet there was growth and evolution in that character.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2313 on: September 10, 2020, 08:21:29 AM »
From what I read, they kinda wanted to emulate George when he did the original trilogy and didn't have a whole set plan when doing a trilogy. Plus JJ never intended to be around for the next two movies so he just started things and passed on to the next set of people.

You can have both, though; just because JJ didn't intend to be around for the next two movies doesn't mean that there can't be an arc or a framework.   Harry Potter. Bond.  Any of ten or more other "franchise" efforts.   I wouldn't really be interested in a ton of reconned reboots, like Spider-Man, but you can have continuity in story while still having fluidity and creativity in the feel, narrative and visuals. 

Yeah, you can, and you're not wrong in general, but they massively failed on the execution here. That is the problem, not the principle behind wanting to emulate George... Shoddy framework, poor planning, awful execution, last minute decisions, masked by an enormous budget and incredible effects and hand-waving away plotholes by moving at warp speed from one plot point to the next (the Sith dagger, anyone?). "What happened with the-" "Who cares, move on, no time to explain, just watch, hey look Force lightning, Palpatine, ten million star destroyers WHOA!!"
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2314 on: September 10, 2020, 09:22:22 AM »
Iíve said before and Iíll say it again, I donít know why Reyís heritage was such a focal point with people. It shouldnít have had any bearing on the story whatsoever.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2315 on: September 10, 2020, 09:26:33 AM »
Iíve said before and Iíll say it again, I donít know why Reyís heritage was such a focal point with people. It shouldnít have had any bearing on the story whatsoever.

I know it became a hug plot point in The Last Jedi, but was it a thing in The Force Awakens? I can't remember. Or was The Last Jedi stuff just a response to fans wanting to know?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2316 on: September 10, 2020, 09:49:28 AM »
From what I read, they kinda wanted to emulate George when he did the original trilogy and didn't have a whole set plan when doing a trilogy. Plus JJ never intended to be around for the next two movies so he just started things and passed on to the next set of people.

Yeah, exactly.  And this new "revelation" is something we knew all along, so not sure what the big deal is.  Could the movies have been better if there was more of a pre-planned framework in place ahead of time?  Yeah, probably.  But it is what it is.  You either like the films or you don't.  No need to conjure up outrage over a nonstory. 
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2317 on: September 10, 2020, 09:58:45 AM »
Iíve said before and Iíll say it again, I donít know why Reyís heritage was such a focal point with people. It shouldnít have had any bearing on the story whatsoever.

I know it became a hug plot point in The Last Jedi, but was it a thing in The Force Awakens? I can't remember. Or was The Last Jedi stuff just a response to fans wanting to know?

I feel it was brought up just because of the Luke/Vader arc and people assumed it was important who Reyís parents were. I for one didnít care.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2318 on: September 10, 2020, 11:32:52 AM »
Well, wait a second; George's idea that it is one large "buddy movie" (the droids), isn't the nine-part saga essentially the "Skywalker Story"?   If so, then Rey's heritage is a huge part of that, and going outside the fam so to speak kind of makes a mockery of that. 

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2319 on: September 10, 2020, 11:35:43 AM »
Well, wait a second; George's idea that it is one large "buddy movie" (the droids), isn't the nine-part saga essentially the "Skywalker Story"?   If so, then Rey's heritage is a huge part of that, and going outside the fam so to speak kind of makes a mockery of that.

But as a Palpatine, itís not about that. Couldíve made her Rey Tarkin to the same effect.

The Skywalker element was in Kylo.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2320 on: September 10, 2020, 11:39:37 AM »
Well, wait a second; George's idea that it is one large "buddy movie" (the droids), isn't the nine-part saga essentially the "Skywalker Story"?   If so, then Rey's heritage is a huge part of that, and going outside the fam so to speak kind of makes a mockery of that.

But as a Palpatine, itís not about that. Couldíve made her Rey Tarkin to the same effect.

The Skywalker element was in Kylo.

I'm in over my head here; I need to shut up about overarching themes of movies I haven't seen.  :) :)   

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2321 on: September 10, 2020, 11:43:36 AM »
Well, wait a second; George's idea that it is one large "buddy movie" (the droids), isn't the nine-part saga essentially the "Skywalker Story"?   If so, then Rey's heritage is a huge part of that, and going outside the fam so to speak kind of makes a mockery of that.

But as a Palpatine, itís not about that. Couldíve made her Rey Tarkin to the same effect.

The Skywalker element was in Kylo.

I'm in over my head here; I need to shut up about overarching themes of movies I haven't seen.  :) :)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2322 on: September 10, 2020, 11:47:20 AM »
 :tup

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2323 on: September 10, 2020, 02:54:55 PM »
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.
Yeah the theme is fine but tackled better in The Last Jedi where her parents were supposed to be nobodies. Retconning that and making her a Palpatine for SPECTACLE is basically the same as the problems that Game of Thrones suffered from in the end - too much focus on shocks and events and not enough on narrative flow and coherence.

On the other hand:

I don't get the Joseph Campbell reference (that's my own fault, I know he's relevant to the Star Wars thematic discussion), but I too am not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations. Rey being a Palpatine is already a stupid thing to run with, but then to have her take the Skywalker name of her own volition? After they've all died? And she's a Palpatine by blood? Bruh. The Skywalker Saga was fine after 6 movies - for it to end with all the Skywalkers dead and then a Palpatine choosing to take the name, and being some kind of ultimate Jedi, I dunno man. It doesn't make sense other than 'hooray feel good ending' to me. But I'll leave it there cause I'll never not be salty about this awful trilogy. :P
I mean, this just seems to me like a really weird thing to be upset about.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2324 on: September 10, 2020, 02:59:12 PM »
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I don't think it's weird at all to be upset with it; it's an incredibly important detail in the Skywalker Saga which is 9 movies and several decades long, but it's completely unnecessary and was thrown in at the last minute. It's exactly like if you read it in a series of books and it came out of nowhere and in the last 100 pages of book 3 there was zero lead-up to the reveal in any of the rest of the trilogy. Imagine if an author did all this reckless writing. It would be equally valid to tear that apart because it doesn't make sense. Just because it's fantasy or popcorn entertainment doesn't mean internal logic should go out the window, that's my entire problem with the trilogy and it bothers me when people say it's weird to be upset with these things. (And you pretty much nailed it when replying to the first quote; we seem to be on the same page, mostly.)

And I have said this before but I'll leave it there. Until the next day. Every day is a new day. It may be six months from now, but I will return, with robotic limbs even, just like Darth Maul.  :lol
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 03:09:14 PM by The Walrus »
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2325 on: September 10, 2020, 03:23:12 PM »
I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies
No, God, please, no.  No more prequels.

Please, let's move forward in time.  Let's see what happens next.  I don't care to see visualizations of things that happened before.  Let the backstory remain backstory.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2326 on: September 10, 2020, 03:26:07 PM »
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I don't think it's weird at all to be upset with it; it's an incredibly important detail in the Skywalker Saga which is 9 movies and several decades long, but it's completely unnecessary and was thrown in at the last minute. It's exactly like if you read it in a series of books and it came out of nowhere and in the last 100 pages of book 3 there was zero lead-up to the reveal in any of the rest of the trilogy. Imagine if an author did all this reckless writing. It would be equally valid to tear that apart because it doesn't make sense. Just because it's fantasy or popcorn entertainment doesn't mean internal logic should go out the window, that's my entire problem with the trilogy and it bothers me when people say it's weird to be upset with these things. (And you pretty much nailed it when replying to the first quote; we seem to be on the same page, mostly.)

And I have said this before but I'll leave it there. Until the next day. Every day is a new day. It may be six months from now, but I will return, with robotic limbs even, just like Darth Maul.  :lol

It's incredibly hard to do, but those skilled with narrative seem to find a way all the time, but there's nothing more rewarding than a plot twist (remember when "reveals" were still called "plot twists"?) that you had no idea was coming, but then, on further reflection, there was really no other logical conclusion?   Love those.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2327 on: September 10, 2020, 03:59:59 PM »
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I don't think it's weird at all to be upset with it; it's an incredibly important detail in the Skywalker Saga which is 9 movies and several decades long, but it's completely unnecessary and was thrown in at the last minute. It's exactly like if you read it in a series of books and it came out of nowhere and in the last 100 pages of book 3 there was zero lead-up to the reveal in any of the rest of the trilogy. Imagine if an author did all this reckless writing. It would be equally valid to tear that apart because it doesn't make sense. Just because it's fantasy or popcorn entertainment doesn't mean internal logic should go out the window, that's my entire problem with the trilogy and it bothers me when people say it's weird to be upset with these things. (And you pretty much nailed it when replying to the first quote; we seem to be on the same page, mostly.)

And I have said this before but I'll leave it there. Until the next day. Every day is a new day. It may be six months from now, but I will return, with robotic limbs even, just like Darth Maul.  :lol
I agree in terms of it not really making much narrative sense, so perhaps I should have been more targeted with what I quoted from your previous post but I specifically meant the fact that you seem bothered by the fact that the Skywalkers are all dead and Rey, a Palpatine by blood, has taken it on as a title. I dunno, I guess I don't really understand what why those things in themselves would be a problem, whereas I do understand the complaints about the coherence of the story and characterisation.

It's like in Game of Thrones, some people were really upset with the outcomes at the end in terms of what characters ended up where etc. but again I can't relate to that - the problems were similarly the logic and coherence of the storytelling.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2328 on: September 10, 2020, 04:02:27 PM »
Not to digress, and at least I watched the whole thing so I can comment, but GoT, the "where the characters ended up" was intrinsically tied to the logic and cohesiveness of storytelling, at least for me.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2329 on: September 10, 2020, 10:37:42 PM »
I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies
No, God, please, no.  No more prequels.

Please, let's move forward in time.  Let's see what happens next.  I don't care to see visualizations of things that happened before.  Let the backstory remain backstory.

I would generally agree with you, but I assume Walrus meant something along the lines of several hundreds (or thousands) of years prior to Eps 1-9. Like if you watched a series about WWI, then WWII, and then watched a series about the Renaissance.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2330 on: September 10, 2020, 10:46:19 PM »
I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies
No, God, please, no.  No more prequels.

Please, let's move forward in time.  Let's see what happens next.  I don't care to see visualizations of things that happened before.  Let the backstory remain backstory.

I would generally agree with you, but I assume Walrus meant something along the lines of several hundreds (or thousands) of years prior to Eps 1-9. Like if you watched a series about WWI, then WWII, and then watched a series about the Renaissance.

I think one issue is that, Iím willing to bet, the tech and aesthetics of the old republic will look at least as advanced as the newer movies. Itíll be old in name only and wonít feel any different. Itís an issue with sci-fi prequels in general. So I also say go forward into unexplored territory.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2331 on: September 10, 2020, 11:23:35 PM »
I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies
No, God, please, no.  No more prequels.

Please, let's move forward in time.  Let's see what happens next.  I don't care to see visualizations of things that happened before.  Let the backstory remain backstory.

I would generally agree with you, but I assume Walrus meant something along the lines of several hundreds (or thousands) of years prior to Eps 1-9. Like if you watched a series about WWI, then WWII, and then watched a series about the Renaissance.

I think one issue is that, Iím willing to bet, the tech and aesthetics of the old republic will look at least as advanced as the newer movies. Itíll be old in name only and wonít feel any different. Itís an issue with sci-fi prequels in general. So I also say go forward into unexplored territory.

I am not a big sci-fi guy so can't speak to that being an issue with the genre, but your point is sound. It can't feel too different, or else it is out of the realm of the franchise; but it can't feel too similar either, as you stated. It's a tough line to walk, and apparently is not handled well often. It's not fair to compare a game to a film, but Knights of the Old Republic feels like it is in the Star Wars universe, but if feels different enough to stand on its own merits.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2332 on: September 10, 2020, 11:29:48 PM »
Yeah Chris, that's exactly what I was getting at. Although I agree with Adami to an extent as well - I would still love to get some Old Republic trilogy action someday.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2333 on: September 11, 2020, 06:05:08 AM »
"Game Of Thrones" set in the Star Wars Universe.

House Skywalker, House Palpatine, a bunch of incest, and some killing.  I'd watch that. 

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2334 on: September 11, 2020, 08:12:04 AM »
KOTOR would be an excellent idea of where to set future movies.  It's not like the baseline of technology hasn't already been set by the gaming franchises.  The 'Old' Republic may have been 'old' in years passed, but wasn't necessarily 'old' in technology.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2335 on: September 11, 2020, 08:50:42 AM »
"Game Of Thrones" set in the Star Wars Universe.

House Skywalker, House Palpatine, a bunch of incest, and some killing.  I'd watch that.

Yes, and

KOTOR would be an excellent idea of where to set future movies.  It's not like the baseline of technology hasn't already been set by the gaming franchises.  The 'Old' Republic may have been 'old' in years passed, but wasn't necessarily 'old' in technology.

yes!
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2336 on: September 15, 2020, 01:26:06 PM »
Season 2 trailer (Mandalorian)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW7Twd85m2g

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2337 on: September 16, 2020, 07:27:04 AM »
Looks good!
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2338 on: September 16, 2020, 12:19:02 PM »
Looks good!

Yeah......looks like it doesn't miss a beat. Also.....I think there was some slight of hand going on with that 'jedi' in the dark cloak scene. I think they want us to think that was Ahsoka but that wasn't Rosario Dawson.....it 'resembled' her but it wasn't her. Unless Dawson isn't playing Ahsoka.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2339 on: September 16, 2020, 01:37:10 PM »
Looks good!

Yeah......looks like it doesn't miss a beat. Also.....I think there was some slight of hand going on with that 'jedi' in the dark cloak scene. I think they want us to think that was Ahsoka but that wasn't Rosario Dawson.....it 'resembled' her but it wasn't her. Unless Dawson isn't playing Ahsoka.
No sleight of hand, and they don't want you to think that was Ahsoka.  That wasn't Rosario Dawson, it was WWE talent Sasha Banks.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2340 on: September 16, 2020, 07:56:20 PM »
Looks good!

Yeah......looks like it doesn't miss a beat. Also.....I think there was some slight of hand going on with that 'jedi' in the dark cloak scene. I think they want us to think that was Ahsoka but that wasn't Rosario Dawson.....it 'resembled' her but it wasn't her. Unless Dawson isn't playing Ahsoka.
No sleight of hand, and they don't want you to think that was Ahsoka.  That wasn't Rosario Dawson, it was WWE talent Sasha Banks.

Cool. Not familiar with her.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2341 on: September 17, 2020, 08:10:39 AM »
Iíve said before and Iíll say it again, I donít know why Reyís heritage was such a focal point with people. It shouldnít have had any bearing on the story whatsoever.

I know it became a hug plot point in The Last Jedi, but was it a thing in The Force Awakens? I can't remember. Or was The Last Jedi stuff just a response to fans wanting to know?

I'd rather Rey hadn't been anyone special. It would have made her story better if she was prevailing based on her own talents and abilities rather than because of her bloodline. Besides, it would have subverted the whole "Chosen One" trope that's been done to death.
Oh, and her resurrection was a bit of a cop out - she should have stayed dead.

I feel it was brought up just because of the Luke/Vader arc and people assumed it was important who Reyís parents were. I for one didnít care.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2342 on: September 17, 2020, 02:19:28 PM »
Sidenote: This is probably the best interpretation of John Williams music i've ever heard.

John Williams & Vienna Philharmonic Ė Williams: Imperial March (from ďStar WarsĒ)

Every instrument section is just flawless as far as I can tell. I think my favourite part is just the last few bars with the subtle ritardando, it's so tight and in sync it's almost not noticable.  :tup
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 02:24:37 PM by MrBoom_shack-a-lack »
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2343 on: September 19, 2020, 05:22:42 AM »
Finished watching through the Resistance series. Clearly it was meant for younger audiences given its Y7 rating and the more childish humor. It was enjoyable because its Star Wars, but otherwise it's pretty unnecessary in grand scheme of Star Wars material.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2344 on: September 19, 2020, 09:29:22 AM »
Finished watching through the Resistance series. Clearly it was meant for younger audiences given its Y7 rating and the more childish humor. It was enjoyable because its Star Wars, but otherwise it's pretty unnecessary in grand scheme of Star Wars material.

Yeah......I just can't do it. Clone Wars started rather simple and geared towards kids but it evolved as it went on to a solid series that was worth the watch. Resistance just doesn't have that appeal or promise for me to invest the time. Plus, I'm not all that interested in those characters.
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