Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)  (Read 86342 times)

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Offline bosk1

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I would love to see a Vadar-centric series that pics up immediately after Order 66 that spans the years in between ROTS and ANH when Vadar 'earns' and creates his reputation as the Powerful and sinister Sith he is........done in the animation style of S7 of The Clone Wars.

I'd love to see that, if it was done right.  But honestly, Clone Wars should have done a better job of setting all that up, and didn't.  I mean, it nailed the "powerful" side.  But the seeds of "sinister" weren't really all that present, other than him getting angry at times.

Yeah.....There were a few moments when Anakin murdered in cold blood outside of the 'Jedi Way' when he would lose it a bit.....but, I think Filoni and Co. wanted to respect what Lucas did with the prequels in the aspect of them not really showing too much of what we already saw in the prequels there towards the end of TCW's. Like with Order 66.......I know my brother was expecting TCW's to show more of it and not really just leave it focused on Ahsoka and Rex......he thought they'd give us more of the other Jedi that survived and more of Anakin as Vadar. I just don't think it'd have worked.

Now in Rebels they do show more of the initial years of Vadar and show us that aura and power that was always implied in the OT. It's cool to see

I liked that focus on Ahsoka and Rex.  It felt intimate and personal.  And where Ahsoka and Rex were internally at that point was set up nicely.  Overall, I thought that final arc was set up pretty nicely.  In a way, it was a bit odd to have Anakin completely absent.  But it also made sense, and I respect the artistic vision there.  I'm just saying that, with him, I wish they would have done more throughout the entire arc of the show to set up his vulnerability to Palpatine and his fall to the dark side.  It was there.  They didn't completely abandon it.  But for as much time as they had over 7 seasons, I expected more.  That's my minor beef with the series as a whole.  But it's fine.  Unfortunately, Lucas left that underbaked in the live action prequels.  So it just is what it is.  Hard to go back and fix that after the fact. 

As far as the tiny print, that's good to know.  Looking forward to it.
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Offline lordxizor

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One thing I hope is explained in the next season of The Mandelorian is why Din can't remove his helmet, but virtually every Mandelorian we meet in the Clone Wars or Rebels series take of their helmets all the time. Is it just his particular sect that doesn't remove their helmets?

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Because Coronavirus and doctor fauci said not to take it off

Offline lordxizor

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Just finished watching through the Rebels series. I loved the ending. Clearly set up to pick up again at some point, maybe a live action Disney+ series? Overall I though the quality of Rebels averaged higher than The Clone Wars. The lows weren't as low and the highs about the same. On to Resistance now!

Offline gmillerdrake

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Just finished watching through the Rebels series. I loved the ending. Clearly set up to pick up again at some point, maybe a live action Disney+ series? Overall I though the quality of Rebels averaged higher than The Clone Wars. The lows weren't as low and the highs about the same. On to Resistance now!

Yeah....I agree about the lows weren’t as low with the Rebels. Really fun series and the ending was clearly intended to lead to future opportunity’s.


Which makes sense as I’ve read that:

There has been casting calls for actors who fit the description(s) of Ezra, Thrawn and Sabine. Seems to indicate they’re probably going to be cast for the Ahsoka stand alone series. Which would fall in line with the last few scenes of Rebels.


Haven’t watched Resistance and probably won’t. I can’t get past the animation style. It’s too childish and ‘simple’ for me to really engage.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 10:43:28 AM by gmillerdrake »
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Offline lordxizor

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To your small font stuff, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

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I finally watched all the bonus material on The Rise of Skywalker. I have to say the amount of work at every level in these massive budget movies continues to astound me. The set construction, the technology, the infrastructure, the amount of planning, and on and on.... Each frame of the movie ends up costing millions of dollars to create and there is tremendous passion, hard work and love that goes into making them. I imagine it's a miracle anytime a movie is able to come together at all. I know these are professionals

That said the main 2 hour documentary "Skywalker Legacy" is a fantastic feature and has some old school behind the scenes from the OT that I don't believe I've seen before.
There is another short feature with Warwick Davis and his son which is a gem to see. They again show archive footage from ROTJ with him as Wicket the Ewok and it comes full when Wicket is there with his son both real and character. It was heartwarming to see that part.

Flaws, warts, issues and all I still enjoyed this new trilogy and while it didn't stick the landing as I would have hoped for, I'm still very content with it and a fun rewatch from time to time.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Flaws, warts, issues and all I still enjoyed this new trilogy and while it didn't stick the landing as I would have hoped for, I'm still very content with it and a fun rewatch from time to time.

Totally agree.
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Offline Cool Chris

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I finally watched all the bonus material on The Rise of Skywalker. I have to say the amount of work at every level in these massive budget movies continues to astound me. The set construction, the technology, the infrastructure, the amount of planning, and on and on....

There is a doc on the RotS DVD that shows everything that went in to making a scene, even covering a bunch of back office stuff like accounting, and things you'd never think of like catering. Forget about actually filming a movie of this size and scope, just making sure the cast and crew gets paid and fed sounds like a daunting task.
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There is a doc on the RotS DVD that shows everything that went in to making a scene, even covering a bunch of back office stuff like accounting, and things you'd never think of like catering. Forget about actually filming a movie of this size and scope, just making sure the cast and crew gets paid and fed sounds like a daunting task.

So true, and that's what made me run screaming away from Film school. The mental amount of preparation, logistics and headaches that went into making just a simple 5 minute film was enough to blow my mind. So props to anyone that has to deal with making a feature film.

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I finally watched all the bonus material on The Rise of Skywalker. I have to say the amount of work at every level in these massive budget movies continues to astound me. The set construction, the technology, the infrastructure, the amount of planning, and on and on....

There is a doc on the RotS DVD that shows everything that went in to making a scene, even covering a bunch of back office stuff like accounting, and things you'd never think of like catering. Forget about actually filming a movie of this size and scope, just making sure the cast and crew gets paid and fed sounds like a daunting task.


That sounds very interesting. Going to have to see if it's on the bluray set that came out a while back. With every new disc release they seem to remove/add features so if it's on DVD it might not be on Blu-ray and vice versa. I hate it when they do that. The first OT DVD set that came out had that amazing documentary "Empire of Dreams" and the bluray set didn't include that. So I held on to my DVDs for that purpose.


And checked that several of the DVD extras didn't port over to the bluray boxset.


Looks like I'm upgrading to the Skywalker Saga 4k Box set lol.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 11:22:08 PM by faizoff »
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Offline Cool Chris

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That sounds very interesting. Going to have to see if it's on the bluray set that came out a while back. With every new disc release they seem to remove/add features so if it's on DVD it might not be on Blu-ray and vice versa. I hate it when they do that.

Good lord. I grew up with a couple copies of Eps 4-6 on VHS, then got the Special Eds on VHS, skipped Ep 1 but got 2 and 3 on DVD. At that point I gave up trying to keep track of all subsequent home video versions and releases, and never cared to procure any of them*. I thought the extra material on the 2 and 3 DVD releases were quite enjoyable and well-presented. And if Empire of Dreams is the documentary I am thinking of, that one was a treat as well.

*Except for Rogue One, which I received as a gift.
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I have to say the amount of work at every level in these massive budget movies continues to astound me. T

Totally.  Mad respect to all the effort that goes into movies.

It's just too bad all of that passion and commitment can get wasted with a lousy story or poor acting or whatever.  What *should* be the simplest part can totally derail an entire movie/franchise.

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Absolutely, it really needs highly visionary filmmakers to make it work out in the end and not let the scale of the project overwhelm them. Take Peter Jackson for example, truly ground breaking stuff with LOTR and made it work very well. That didn't fully pan out for the Hobbit for several reasons..

That said, I'm now watching the making of The Mandalorian and that is another fascinating series. Why aren't Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau overlooking the movies or everything Star Wars related?!

Such amazing creative forces who are walking encyclopedias of SW lore. I can't wait to see what they have in store for Season 2 and now I immediately want to go and watch Clone Wars and Rebels.

The technology room they called the "Volume" is a fantastic amalgamation of available technology esp video game engines.
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Offline lordxizor

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Yeah, I think Dave Filoni would be a great head creative person for all things Star Wars going forward. Jon Favreau likely has too much else going on to take that type of role.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Yeah, I think Dave Filoni would be a great head creative person for all things Star Wars going forward. Jon Favreau likely has too much else going on to take that type of role.

Filoni is a Lucas disciple. If you notice he always mentions and references ‘George’ and the conversations they’ve had. He knows every small detail and nuance about SW and actually cares about the story that’s being told and the characters.

Favreau isn’t as knowledgeable about SW but he knows how to make really good movies utilizing all technologies and how to develop characters and storylines that can span multiple movies.

The two of them together are a great team for SW.
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Offline lordxizor

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Yeah, I think Dave Filoni would be a great head creative person for all things Star Wars going forward. Jon Favreau likely has too much else going on to take that type of role.

Filoni is a Lucas disciple. If you notice he always mentions and references ‘George’ and the conversations they’ve had. He knows every small detail and nuance about SW and actually cares about the story that’s being told and the characters.

Favreau isn’t as knowledgeable about SW but he knows how to make really good movies utilizing all technologies and how to develop characters and storylines that can span multiple movies.

The two of them together are a great team for SW.
I completely agree. I would love to see those two shape the focus of Star Wars movies and TV for the next decade.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2292 on: September 08, 2020, 10:43:10 AM »
So I read something last night that someone posted about their 'issue' with Rey in the last trilogy.....and it illuminated the underlying detachment I personally faced that just didn't allow me to embrace Rey as a character.

I don't recall verbatim but the gist of it went, with Luke....we are shown his vulnerabilities and that he 'needs' help from others. He needed Obi Wan and then Han Solo to help get him off of Tattooine and then Obi Wan to train him.......He needed Han Solo's help when he was in the trench of the Death Star....then again of Hoth.....he needed Leiah's help when he called out to her after he had fallen down the garbage chute.....we were constantly shown that while he is strong and admirable and has heroic qualities....he is still human and needs the help of others to succeed. By ROTJ he's put in his time and 'earned' his status as a Jedi not only through assumed actions that he took between films but it's earned in the minds of the viewer because of how relatable and honest his character development was.

Then there's Rey who immediately is shown to be a trained fighter against the troopers chasing her and Finn.....gets upset at the thought of Finn wanting to help her.....she's immediately a world class pilot capable of flying a ship that needs two pilots on her own. She seeks out Luke not necessarily for training but to get him to come back...then abandons the training.....she escapes imprisonment on her own and then cannot be beaten by a far superior and more well trained Kylo Ren......then by the third film she's deemed the best pilot in the resistance (even better than Poe?) and is capable of healing people? Oh and she defeats the sith lord of all sith lords who it was pretty much implied that only Vadar could do....which he did.

Her power and achievements do not feel 'earned' and/or honest. There's no substance to help persuade and convince the audience that she deserves to be this all powerful Jedi other than a few lines of dialogue and an external 'girl power' movement culturally. While I enjoyed the sequel trilogy it wasn't until I read that last night that it really dawned on me that is why I never really connected with Rey or bought in to her being the character Disney so badly wanted her to be. They took the easy way out. It's also the reason why my devotion to Ahsoka's character is so strong because the leg work is there for her development...it's more believable and honest than anything they did with Rey.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2293 on: September 08, 2020, 03:44:04 PM »
"Every word in that sentence was wrong."

~Luke Skywalker
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2294 on: September 08, 2020, 03:46:53 PM »
Every character in the new trilogy sucks dong except Kylo Ren. Rey especially sucks and Gary's spot on and he's absolutely not wrong, let alone 'every word'. I also love John Boyega's honest assessment of his character in the films. Completely wasted and used for nothing more than a marketing ploy in the end to diversify the cast.

I hope they do The Old Republic for their next set of movies and actually do Star Wars justice for once but I'm not holding my breath.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2295 on: September 08, 2020, 04:38:50 PM »
"Every word in that sentence was wrong."

~Luke Skywalker

That’s an opinion as well.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2296 on: September 08, 2020, 07:19:55 PM »
So I read something last night that someone posted about their 'issue' with Rey in the last trilogy.....and it illuminated the underlying detachment I personally faced that just didn't allow me to embrace Rey as a character.

I don't recall verbatim but the gist of it went, with Luke....we are shown his vulnerabilities and that he 'needs' help from others. He needed Obi Wan and then Han Solo to help get him off of Tattooine and then Obi Wan to train him.......He needed Han Solo's help when he was in the trench of the Death Star....then again of Hoth.....he needed Leiah's help when he called out to her after he had fallen down the garbage chute.....we were constantly shown that while he is strong and admirable and has heroic qualities....he is still human and needs the help of others to succeed. By ROTJ he's put in his time and 'earned' his status as a Jedi not only through assumed actions that he took between films but it's earned in the minds of the viewer because of how relatable and honest his character development was.

Then there's Rey who immediately is shown to be a trained fighter against the troopers chasing her and Finn.....gets upset at the thought of Finn wanting to help her.....she's immediately a world class pilot capable of flying a ship that needs two pilots on her own. She seeks out Luke not necessarily for training but to get him to come back...then abandons the training.....she escapes imprisonment on her own and then cannot be beaten by a far superior and more well trained Kylo Ren......then by the third film she's deemed the best pilot in the resistance (even better than Poe?) and is capable of healing people? Oh and she defeats the sith lord of all sith lords who it was pretty much implied that only Vadar could do....which he did.

Her power and achievements do not feel 'earned' and/or honest. There's no substance to help persuade and convince the audience that she deserves to be this all powerful Jedi other than a few lines of dialogue and an external 'girl power' movement culturally. While I enjoyed the sequel trilogy it wasn't until I read that last night that it really dawned on me that is why I never really connected with Rey or bought in to her being the character Disney so badly wanted her to be. They took the easy way out. It's also the reason why my devotion to Ahsoka's character is so strong because the leg work is there for her development...it's more believable and honest than anything they did with Rey.

I agree with this summary pretty much in whole.  The sequels (especially Rise of Skywalker) though have way more problems than just this.  I was enjoying the sequel trilogy (despite not liking the direction of The Last Jedi) but TROS really killed my enthusiasm for the trilogy. 

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2297 on: September 09, 2020, 05:18:07 AM »
I mean the latest Trilogy isn't without it's issues, and certainly made some weird decisions plot wise......but i'd still take them over the prequels - Menace and Clones are awful movies.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2298 on: September 09, 2020, 08:00:58 AM »
It should tell me something (but I'm not listening!) that I'm a Star Wars fan-atic, and still haven't seen Solo, The Last Jedi, and the Rise of Skylwalker.   I actually LIKED the Force Awakens as a movie, but there are so many problems with it in the context of a trilogy that I'm struggling to generate interest.  Now with Disney+ I'll inevitably watch them, but...

The things that more or less sucked the life out of the trilogy for me:
- Han dying;
- Han and Leia doing the "divorced parents" thing;
- Rey;

I'm sort of interested in Kylo's story, and I want to catch up on Luke, but the whole "is she or isn't she?" thing was so badly handled from what I've seen so far (to the extent I can, I agree with what Gary's post said).   

I don't know.  I'm all in knots.  I have pledged to finish the Marvel Universe arc (I'm on Iron Man 2  ;)) and I want to watch the Bond films again...   I don't know where the Star Wars universe fits in.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2299 on: September 09, 2020, 08:07:05 AM »
So apparently, according to Daisy, the idea of her being a Palpatine was extremely last minute and they never knew til then who she was supposed to be.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2300 on: September 09, 2020, 08:28:15 AM »
I mean the latest Trilogy isn't without it's issues, and certainly made some weird decisions plot wise......but i'd still take them over the prequels - Menace and Clones are awful movies.

Same here. But like I said, I really liked the sequel trilogy.....it was a fun trilogy and visually stunning. But outside of Kylo Ren there isn't another character that had any type of real growth or journey or that I felt any sort of 'connection' with.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2301 on: September 09, 2020, 08:56:25 AM »
So apparently, according to Daisy, the idea of her being a Palpatine was extremely last minute and they never knew til then who she was supposed to be.

Wow big shock, it was a slapdash decision that makes absolutely no sense! I can't believe it! :lol
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2302 on: September 09, 2020, 02:31:25 PM »
That just goes to show yet again that the sequel trilogy's biggest problem was lack of a unified vision and lack of a plan for the overarching plot.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2303 on: September 09, 2020, 02:33:45 PM »
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2304 on: September 09, 2020, 02:50:00 PM »
That just goes to show yet again that the sequel trilogy's biggest problem was lack of a unified vision and lack of a plan for the overarching plot.

Considering Star Wars is one of the largest and best known franchises in the world, the fact that there WAS NO overarching plot idea is absolutely insane to think about. Plan things in advance, FFS.  Yet here we are.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2305 on: September 09, 2020, 02:54:20 PM »
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.

Fine, I guess, and I'm usually on board with that notion as a general sense, but I'm not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations.  I'm more in tune with the more classic Joseph Campbell mythology of the hero.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2306 on: September 09, 2020, 03:07:37 PM »
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.

Fine, I guess, and I'm usually on board with that notion as a general sense, but I'm not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations.  I'm more in tune with the more classic Joseph Campbell mythology of the hero.

I don't get the Joseph Campbell reference (that's my own fault, I know he's relevant to the Star Wars thematic discussion), but I too am not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations. Rey being a Palpatine is already a stupid thing to run with, but then to have her take the Skywalker name of her own volition? After they've all died? And she's a Palpatine by blood? Bruh. The Skywalker Saga was fine after 6 movies - for it to end with all the Skywalkers dead and then a Palpatine choosing to take the name, and being some kind of ultimate Jedi, I dunno man. It doesn't make sense other than 'hooray feel good ending' to me. But I'll leave it there cause I'll never not be salty about this awful trilogy. :P
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2307 on: September 09, 2020, 03:17:45 PM »
Rogue One is still a great movie, though.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2308 on: September 09, 2020, 03:42:28 PM »
The thing that kills me is that the reason given is to show that "anyone can be anything no matter where they come from." Which is fine... if it made sense, or didn't take a hot wet dump on the Skywalker story.

Fine, I guess, and I'm usually on board with that notion as a general sense, but I'm not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations.  I'm more in tune with the more classic Joseph Campbell mythology of the hero.

I don't get the Joseph Campbell reference (that's my own fault, I know he's relevant to the Star Wars thematic discussion), but I too am not looking to the Skywalker clan for life lessons and affirmations. Rey being a Palpatine is already a stupid thing to run with, but then to have her take the Skywalker name of her own volition? After they've all died? And she's a Palpatine by blood? Bruh. The Skywalker Saga was fine after 6 movies - for it to end with all the Skywalkers dead and then a Palpatine choosing to take the name, and being some kind of ultimate Jedi, I dunno man. It doesn't make sense other than 'hooray feel good ending' to me. But I'll leave it there cause I'll never not be salty about this awful trilogy. :P

Joseph Campbell is - was - a professor and author that wrote extensively on the mythology of the hero.  His most famous book is "The Hero With A Thousand Faces", which basically walked through the similarities and the symbology of the various heroes throughout history. It was the introduction of the concept of "comparative mythology".   George Lucas actually named Campbell as an influence on the original trilogy. 

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #2309 on: September 10, 2020, 03:33:47 AM »
I mean the latest Trilogy isn't without it's issues, and certainly made some weird decisions plot wise......but i'd still take them over the prequels - Menace and Clones are awful movies.

Same here. But like I said, I really liked the sequel trilogy.....it was a fun trilogy and visually stunning. But outside of Kylo Ren there isn't another character that had any type of real growth or journey or that I felt any sort of 'connection' with.

Agreed! Kylo Ren was easily the standout character of this trilogy, and the one that actually got a complete character arc throughout the three films.

And yes, Menace and Clones are not only the worst SW movies, they are also some of the worst films I've ever seen.

That just goes to show yet again that the sequel trilogy's biggest problem was lack of a unified vision and lack of a plan for the overarching plot.

That much is very apparent, yes!

Like I said, I enjoyed the sequel trilogy but it could have been much better, if some things would have been planned in advance.

I wonder if they could shake the Lucasfilm leadership, and put some lore nerd like Filoni in charge of the creative decisions. Have KK be in charge of the financial side of things, and Filoni make the decisions regarding the future shows and movies.