Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[faizoff]

Mike Portnoy posted a review and he rated it 3.5/5 and said he loved it.

[Stadler]

No fat-shaming (I actually am attracted to full-figured women) or "#MeToo" nonsense, but - having only seen TFA - I just don't find Rey attractive at all.

Because probably you don;t follow her on her SM (which I do)

If you've read ANY of my posts around, I don't really follow ANYONE on SM.  .   

[Stadler]

Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

I definitely see Oscar Isaac, I can potentially see John Boyega... but Adam Driver is an acquired taste.  Before "#MeToo" he might have been described as "having a nice personality". 

[The Walrus]

Rey is a babe.

[King Postwhore]

Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

Fine pieces of space ass.

[lordxizor]

Rewatched Rogue One today. What a fantastic movie.

[pg1067]

Saw it this afternoon.  Loved it!  Fantastic finale to the Skywalker saga.  More later, but suffice to say I was HIGHLY satisfied with this film.

I saw it Friday evening.  This is my basic feeling, but there was a LOT going on, and I want to see it again.

Also, Rey is hot (most of the time), and I really wanted to see Zora (or whatever her name was) without her helmet on.

[ronnibran]

I saw the movie Thursday night.  My initial feel for the movie is pretty much how I left the theater after The Last Jedi...  Disappointed.

Not complaining, it's just a movie, and the fact that Star Wars is still active is enough to keep me content.  But I really didn't care for where the story went.  I didn't really care for killing off Snoke in The Last Jedi when they could have developed him further in the following movie.  And that feeling for me was confirmed with the new movie.  I think bringing back Palpatine was kind of dumb and I think would have been better if they would have just developed the Snoke story further instead.  I don't think anything in this statement is a spoiler, it's no surprise that Palps was coming back.

I probably had too high expectations going in.  The Force Awakens for me was incredible, so I assumed under the same director that I'd like the new one a lot also.  I will see again in a couple weeks.  I'm assuming I'll like it more, once I've shed the bad expectations and can see it a bit more objectively.  Over time, though, my first impression of the Last Jedi didn't change much.  I like the movie and have seen it several times.  It still ranks way lower than The Force Awakens though.

My current rating of the  SW episodic movies (best to least best):  New Hope, Force Awakens, Return of Jedi, Empire, Revenge of Sith, Last Jedi tie with Rise of Skywalker, Attack of the Clones, Phantom Menace.

I will say, the good parts of the movie were VERY good.  There were just a lot of negatives that I won't get into specifics of for spoiler sake.

[gmillerdrake]

Couple observation after my second watch

Ben / Kylo’s character is the best of the trilogy….and I’ll go as far as to say the best of the (9) films. Adam Driver does an incredible job with this character, the arc and path he takes is the most complete of the series. I know this trilogy has been kind of billed as Rey’s and her being a Jedi and all but IMO this trilogy is about the Redemption of Ben Solo after he had been manipulated by the dark side for his power.

 I loved The scene when Ben meets up with Rey in the Sith throne room….when Rey looks over to see the Imperial Guard be killed from behind revealing Ben Solo standing there might be my favorite scene of the trilogy. I literally had chills.

Kylo Ren is clearly more educated in the Force than most other force using characters we’ve seen. He was able to determine before the Emperor and Snoke that he and Rey were binate in the force and exploit it. He displayed this also physically when he was challenging Rey with the transport craft and also in their final dual on the Death Star debris….and he matched her note for note in any ‘trick’ she thought she had and was even able to learn from her with the transference of life force. He had her whipped….if not for Leia it’d have been interesting to see if he would have actually killed Rey.

In that fight it was apparent that the harder and more angry Rey got the ‘weaker’ she became. She had no answer to Kylo in that saber duel.
After the first watch I thought to myself that Rey should have died at the end and Ben should have survived….to be the ‘last Skywalker’ But, after watching that scene again when she dies….then Ben makes his way out of that pit to embrace her…..when he does hold her Driver does a great job with his expression to where you could ‘see’ Ben making the decision to give the rest of his life ‘force’ to Rey so she could live. I’m wondering if in that moment that despite having returned to the light Ben knew that he’d always be a conflicted person and that Rey ‘deserved’ to live….that he needed to atone in some way for his actions of the past few years.

I found Rey’s new light saber color to be interesting. That is the color that the Jedi Temple Guard use. Also. Their sabers are typically dual blade and if you take a peek at that hilt it mirrors itself with the bottom of the handle looking the same as the top….yet the very end is left off camera.
I’m wondering if this means Rey is setting up another temple…..is this alluding to future movies with Rey? Or if they’re just trolling us.

I’m assuming that Finn was trying to tell Rey the whole time that he has been growing in the force somehow? It was hinted at like a hundred times and that’s a massive fail on their part by putting that out there so many times and then…..nothing? Just poor storytelling there.

I’d have been fine with Chewie blowing up in the transport. One of my issues is that no major character died. Finn should have bit it while on the blown up command ship at the end or Poe should have been blown out of the sky….or keep Chewie dead. Someone needed to croak.

I will also say that I think that this movie should have been Episode 8….with a few tweaks and tinkering here and there to still give Luke his send off….but it’d have been neat to see Rey and Ben reach this conclusion in the end of 8….that Rey turns Ben and he and her then battle Darth Plageus in the final film? That he’d cheated death all this time and been the puppet master so to speak ever since Palpatines rise to power….then the two binate force users would have had to combine their strengths to beat the ultimate Sith?

As has been mentioned a hundred times….Disney’s failure was that they did not have a cohesive plan for these three movies and that’s unforgivable.
While I certainly recognize there were some flaws with this film and the trilogy in general….I still really like them all as a whole. I appreciate getting to see this story unfold and all in all I think it was wildly entertaining and I’m not too upset with the shortcomings.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Saw it this afternoon.  Loved it!  Fantastic finale to the Skywalker saga.  More later, but suffice to say I was HIGHLY satisfied with this film.

I saw it Friday evening.  This is my basic feeling, but there was a LOT going on, and I want to see it again.

Also, Rey is hot (most of the time), and I really wanted to see Zora (or whatever her name was) without her helmet on.

This is going to sound weird, but what the hell. It’s the internet, and we just had a conversation about Rey being pudgy, so what I’m about to say actually isn’t that strange by comparison.

One thing I really appreciated about IX is how it actually had a decent amount of romance. VIII obviously had Finn and Rose, and some Reylo, but IX focuses more on those kinds of relationships. That kind of thing makes the characters feel a bit more human to me, and makes the story feel a bit more adult, even though it is at its heart meant for kids. I dunno... Just my two cents I guess.

Oh, and I concur that Rey was smokin’ in this movie.

[The Walrus]

Just venting a little: don't get me wrong, I think it's great if people think this is fantastic, I'm happy they're enjoying it because whatever makes you happy in this messed up world is a good thing, but at the same time I have a hard time juxtaposing that view with a critical analysis of the movies. People have also analyzed the original trilogy to the point that there's nothing else to say about them, so the idea that we can't dig in deep to this trilogy and thoroughly annihilate its weaknesses the same way we do the prequels just rubs me the wrong way. (EDIT: Sorry, this last part implies I'm talking to people here, and I'm actually not, just referring to a lot of the discourse I've seen about the film and the trilogy over the Internet this weekend. Seems like Star Wars is a sacred cow to some people and just gets a pass for being Star Wars no matter how tenuously the plot is held together.)

[kaos2900]

I'm going again on Thursday in the nice theater. I'll post my rankings again after the second viewing.

[faizoff]

I personally have no issues eviscerating the new trilogy, countless video reviews from the usual suspects (RLM,etc..) have gone and done so. I agree these movies are flawed and can be torn apart quite easily just like the prequels..

My personal take on the new trilogy is that I much prefer it to the prequels warts and all, the prequels had some great bits but overall was lacking. The OT was a product of its time, sure it has flaws but it had a cultural impact which the other two trilogies would probably never get to have.

I like the Star wars world, I'm not blinded by the issues, I'm just able to enjoy them with a sort of disconnect that some don't have. I went to TROS with some friends (two brothers) who have been life long hardcore SW fans since the beginning. One brother absolutely hated it and continues to send me tweets and articles and videos that demolish the entire new trilogy on a daily basis, the other brother was like me, enjoyed it a ton, acknowledges the flaws, takes it for what it is and goes by his day.

I've given up watching all these video reviews because they are all blending in to be the same now. 10 years back I found them a fun novelty to watch because as an all out nerd they could go all in and dissect it frame by frame and give a very detailed opinion on why they didn't work or did.

I don't really care about that anymore. There is soo much entertainment out there, I don't do the hyper focused viewing and analysis anymore, watch a show/movie, enjoy it/hate it, move on..

That's my take on these things, different strokes for different folks and all that jazz...

[bosk1]

A few things (and not meant to go after Gary, but since he raised some good points that I want to push back on, I'm quoting his post in particular):

1.  This:

I’m assuming that Finn was trying to tell Rey the whole time that he has been growing in the force somehow? It was hinted at like a hundred times and that’s a massive fail on their part by putting that out there so many times and then…..nothing? Just poor storytelling there.

Not sure what he was trying to tell her.  Maybe it was that he had feelings for her (I kinda thought that at a few points in time).  Dunno.  But more to the point, I have no idea how that could possibly be considered "poor storytelling."  A lot of times in life, we really want to tell somebody something, and for any of a number of reasons, we don't get around to it.  Not everything needs a payoff.  Real life isn't poor storytelling.

2.  This:

One of my issues is that no major character died. [/size]

Uh...Kylo Ren?  Sheev freakin' Palpatine?

3.  "Flaws"/"shortcomings":  I don't see any.  I just don't.  And I don't get the obsession with pointing out perceived "flaws" or "shortcomings" in films nowadays.  The fact that one might not like how a particular film went does not mean that it is "flawed."  I disagree with some of the creative decisions made in quite a few of the SW films. That doesn't mean they are flawed.  I personally might just have liked them better if different decisions were made.  That said, I really can't pick apart much, if anything, about this one.  Other than my recurring "instantaneous travel" pet peeve, I can't really find anything to criticize.

4.  This wasn't brought up by anybody.  I just need to say it.  C3PO.  What they (primarily, Lucas) have done with the character up to this point has annoyed me to no end and almost put him on par with Jar-Jar to me.  They completely redeemed him in this installment.  I loved pretty much everything they did with him.

[faizoff]

How do you do tiny font here? I tried to do it in the preview window but all I can do is go down to size 8.

Bosk, about 4. I completely agree and it was my exact sentiment leaving the theater.

[The Walrus]

faizoff, just replace the number. Instead of 8, make it 1 through 7.

SPOILERS, but bosk's post basically triggered me, sorry 

I find it a rather bold claim to say you don't see ANY shortcomings or flaws. Like, really? This movie invalidates Vader's sacrifice. It makes literally no sense with respect to anything about Palpatine. This is exactly what I was referring to: "The fact that one might not like how a particular film went does not mean that it is flawed." Well, yes, it DOES, if you take these events in the context of the 9-part Skywalker saga and the logic that is established with those films. Again to the point I raised, this idea that criticism of this film is unwarranted, I just don't understand that. There are things very clearly done and said in this film that don't line up with things established in The Last Jedi or the original trilogy *and* there are entire things that go undeveloped throughout the entire trilogy (Finn had no arc in this movie, the Knights of Ren were just another group of bad guys to get mowed down with no expansion on the reason for their organization being a thing, Palpatine wanting his granddaughter to be Empress Palpatine but he didn't want his son or his daughter in law to be emperor/empress because...?? etc.)

This is a 9-part story. The string of events has to make sense. The things they include need to be relevant to the plot or characters somehow. They keep introducing things in the third movie without giving them time to breathe or develop or even give time for the stuff that was established in the other 2 movies to grow. It's not "nitpicking" if the very events that take place don't make sense. Just because it's a work of fiction doesn't mean we cannot critically analyze what is happening with the characters and setting. We do it with Shakespeare in academia, we do it with all kinds of literature and fictional works, we spent a decade doing it with Game of Thrones and that's the entire justification for why seasons 7 and 8 aren't good - so why is Star Wars immune from the same analysis and in-depth discussion?

EDIT: OMG, I did it. I said I was gonna hold off for a few days and I couldn't resist. I'm sorry. 

[bosk1]

Critical analysis is fine and often rewarding.  Nitpicking is, to me, pointless, unrewarding, and pointless (repeated to emphasize the pointlessness of this pointlessness to the point of being utterly devoid of point, and thus, doubly pointless).  In this day and age where everyone thinks they are a critic and that every opinion is equally valid, a lot of people don't really understand the difference between the two.  Star Wars isn't "immune" from anything.  But for the most part, I find it a waste of time to dwell on perceived "negatives" because, (1) there aren't any, and (2) it is, again, pointless.  I'm not saying anyone else can't.  But using your post as an example, the things you call "flaws" don't resonate with me even a little bit as something that could be called a "flaw."  For example, there precisely zero invalidation of Vader's sacrifice in this film (or the trilogy).  In fact, I find that this film took HUGE strides to reinforce both the supreme evil of Vader AND his sacrifice, both of which the PT undermined in favor of a different take on Vader.  And on and on.

And for what it's worth, I also find "this triggered me" disclaimers to be pretty pointless.  "Triggered" seems to be an all-too-easy waiving away of rules of social decorum because "this annoyed me, so I don't have to be polite and play nice." 

[bosk1]

How do you do tiny font here? I tried to do it in the preview window but all I can do is go down to size 8.

If you use the "reply" button rather than the "quick reply" box, you will see a font change button.  Or you can do it manually by using codes.  You need the

Code: [Select]

[size=X][/size] tags, with the "X" being your font size.  I used "3" because that's what Gary used in the post I was quoting, although I typically use "1" for spoilers.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Just venting a little: don't get me wrong, I think it's great if people think this is fantastic, I'm happy they're enjoying it because whatever makes you happy in this messed up world is a good thing, but at the same time I have a hard time juxtaposing that view with a critical analysis of the movies. People have also analyzed the original trilogy to the point that there's nothing else to say about them, so the idea that we can't dig in deep to this trilogy and thoroughly annihilate its weaknesses the same way we do the prequels just rubs me the wrong way. (EDIT: Sorry, this last part implies I'm talking to people here, and I'm actually not, just referring to a lot of the discourse I've seen about the film and the trilogy over the Internet this weekend. Seems like Star Wars is a sacred cow to some people and just gets a pass for being Star Wars no matter how tenuously the plot is held together.)

My personal opinion here is that however deeply one wants to dive into the flaws, absolutely go for it, just keep it consistent across the films. And I think that's pretty much what you're saying too (correct me if I'm wrong). So if you're one of those people who tore apart every aspect of the prequels, do the same to the original trilogy and sequels. Or if you want to tear apart the sequels, then apply the same logic to the other two trilogies.

I'm not saying that every movie is equal. I'm just saying that the only legitimate way to know which movies are good versus bad is to approach them with the same-sized magnifying glass. Over the past few years, I've noticed so many people who essentially judge the originals from 30,000 feet up while dissecting the other movies with a microscope. That kind of thing makes it really hard to have a conversation about Star Wars, IMO.

[The Walrus]

Just venting a little: don't get me wrong, I think it's great if people think this is fantastic, I'm happy they're enjoying it because whatever makes you happy in this messed up world is a good thing, but at the same time I have a hard time juxtaposing that view with a critical analysis of the movies. People have also analyzed the original trilogy to the point that there's nothing else to say about them, so the idea that we can't dig in deep to this trilogy and thoroughly annihilate its weaknesses the same way we do the prequels just rubs me the wrong way. (EDIT: Sorry, this last part implies I'm talking to people here, and I'm actually not, just referring to a lot of the discourse I've seen about the film and the trilogy over the Internet this weekend. Seems like Star Wars is a sacred cow to some people and just gets a pass for being Star Wars no matter how tenuously the plot is held together.)

My personal opinion here is that however deeply one wants to dive into the flaws, absolutely go for it, just keep it consistent across the films. And I think that's pretty much what you're saying too (correct me if I'm wrong). So if you're one of those people who tore apart every aspect of the prequels, do the same to the original trilogy and sequels. Or if you want to tear apart the sequels, then apply the same logic to the other two trilogies.

I'm not saying that every movie is equal. I'm just saying that the only legitimate way to know which movies are good versus bad is to approach them with the same-sized magnifying glass. Over the past few years, I've noticed so many people who essentially judge the originals from 30,000 feet up while dissecting the other movies with a microscope. That kind of thing makes it really hard to have a conversation about Star Wars, IMO.

Yeah. My problems with this franchise used to be systemic, coming from the original trilogy, but this new trilogy has no excuse for being this poorly planned, which is a shame because if they slowed down on this new trilogy instead of having to pump them out every 2 years, they could've made it consistent. So it does bug me when I look at a film, see these issues, and then the response is either 1) "I don't see any flaws, nothing wrong here" and/or 2) criticism = nitpicking. I dunno. It's not nitpicking to me, these are problems the writers shouldn't have swept under the rug. That's why bosk's reply bothers me. I see these issues as very important to the structure and cohesiveness of the franchise. These are not small things I'm complaining about. I'm not whining about Babu Frik, I'm whining about the biggest evil in the film canon making a reprisal "just because." How that is acceptable but questioning the logic behind the return isn't... *shrug*

[Adami]

One thing I will say is that I was pleasantly surprised by Billy Dee Williams' presence (not his role).

I saw some interviews with him recently and he appeared to be about 10% awake, and about 90% high. So I was really nervous how he's appear on screen. But that man was just oozing charisma and charm. I didn't think he still had it in him and I was proven wrong.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Critical analysis is fine and often rewarding.  Nitpicking is, to me, pointless, unrewarding, and pointless (repeated to emphasize the pointlessness of this pointlessness to the point of being utterly devoid of point, and thus, doubly pointless).  In this day and age where everyone thinks they are a critic and that every opinion is equally valid, a lot of people don't really understand the difference between the two.  Star Wars isn't "immune" from anything. 

Apologies for the double post, but I want to give a big +1 to this. True critical analysis (emphasis on the word "analysis") can be incredibly interesting. But to me, ripping apart every aspect of something is not interesting and falls short of true analysis, which should also look for the good in things. Even worse, selectively ripping apart some movies while treating others with kid gloves is kind of dishonest (not criticizing anyone here, but moreso some general trends I've seen). My personal philosophy - which I am not trying to convert people to - is that life is too short and my default approach is to try and enjoy things for what they are.

[Adami]

Critical analysis is fine and often rewarding.  Nitpicking is, to me, pointless, unrewarding, and pointless (repeated to emphasize the pointlessness of this pointlessness to the point of being utterly devoid of point, and thus, doubly pointless).  In this day and age where everyone thinks they are a critic and that every opinion is equally valid, a lot of people don't really understand the difference between the two.  Star Wars isn't "immune" from anything. 

Apologies for the double post, but I want to give a big +1 to this. True critical analysis (emphasis on the word "analysis") can be incredibly interesting. But to me, ripping apart every aspect of something is not interesting and falls short of true analysis, which should also look for the good in things. Even worse, selectively ripping apart some movies while treating others with kid gloves is kind of dishonest (not criticizing anyone here, but moreso some general trends I've seen). My personal philosophy - which I am not trying to convert people to - is that life is too short and my default approach is to try and enjoy things for what they are.

I'm going to push back just slightly on this, though not completely. I don't think any analyses should be LOOKING for good things, or bad things. They should just be discussing what they see. They should be pointing the good things if they agreed with them, but not looking for something good just because they saw something bad. Not everything has to be equal in what they dislike vs what they like. Though rarely have I seen a film where I didn't like ANYTHING.

And second, if someone is reviewing a film (say TROS) then they don't have to mention A New Hope or Empire because they're not reviewing those films at that moment. So people should be free to discuss whatever film they want and not feel obligated to mention other films to try to even the score. Though if they go out of their way to say "TROS IS PURE TRASH AND A NEW HOPE IS FLAWLESS" then yea, you'd be right.

[Zantera]

While I have my issues with the sequel trilogy and TFA is the only one out of the 3 that I really liked (i thought TLJ was disappointing and RoS was alright) I think the whole standpoint of "The Emperor being back invalidates Anakin being the one and ruins the ending of episode 6" is just wrong to begin with. Anakin DID bring balance to the force. His sacrifice and turn at the end of episode 6 meant ~30 years of peace across the galaxy and nothing in RoS takes away from that. The fact that over 3 decades later another conflict happened, that's just how things are.

[The Walrus]

EDIT: nevermind, guess I'm just pissing on the parade. Seems like I'm the only one who enjoys dissecting this stuff and pointing out why I feel they've done such a disservice to this saga. Sorry

Marvel can put out 23 movies in 10 years, make them all very cohesive and logical. Star Wars can't even do 3 cohesive films in 6 years but they get a pass. ight

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Critical analysis is fine and often rewarding.  Nitpicking is, to me, pointless, unrewarding, and pointless (repeated to emphasize the pointlessness of this pointlessness to the point of being utterly devoid of point, and thus, doubly pointless).  In this day and age where everyone thinks they are a critic and that every opinion is equally valid, a lot of people don't really understand the difference between the two.  Star Wars isn't "immune" from anything. 

Apologies for the double post, but I want to give a big +1 to this. True critical analysis (emphasis on the word "analysis") can be incredibly interesting. But to me, ripping apart every aspect of something is not interesting and falls short of true analysis, which should also look for the good in things. Even worse, selectively ripping apart some movies while treating others with kid gloves is kind of dishonest (not criticizing anyone here, but moreso some general trends I've seen). My personal philosophy - which I am not trying to convert people to - is that life is too short and my default approach is to try and enjoy things for what they are.

I'm going to push back just slightly on this, though not completely. I don't think any analyses should be LOOKING for good things, or bad things. They should just be discussing what they see. They should be pointing the good things if they agreed with them, but not looking for something good just because they saw something bad. Not everything has to be equal in what they dislike vs what they like. Though rarely have I seen a film where I didn't like ANYTHING.

And second, if someone is reviewing a film (say TROS) then they don't have to mention A New Hope or Empire because they're not reviewing those films at that moment. So people should be free to discuss whatever film they want and not feel obligated to mention other films to try to even the score. Though if they go out of their way to say "TROS IS PURE TRASH AND A NEW HOPE IS FLAWLESS" then yea, you'd be right.

All 100% fair points. Instead of saying that film analysis should look for the good in things, it is probably more accurate to say that, in my opinion, film analysis should at least try to understand what the movie is trying to accomplish. It should be open to good or bad explanations, and if the ultimate conclusion is that a film is absolute crud, then so be it. As I mentioned earlier, not all movies are equal. But analysis should not just be fishing for problems.

[Adami]

On that we agree completely.

The actual critical analyses I've watched of the film, and I only stick to a select few on youtube that I trust, have all been very fair. I even disagreed with them about a few negatives, but they were all very fair and balanced, even if their ultimate conclusion was WAY more negative than positive.

Unfortunately everyone thinks they're a legit critic. So you'll get people destroying the film, poorly, and you'll get people praising the film...poorly. I just ignore most of those people and therefore don't get bothered by it.

[gmillerdrake]

With most films or series that I like I notice that I really latch on to the aspects that I really enjoy(ed) and then tend to ignore and discount the stuff that doesn't work. I've done that with this trilogy for sure. I just think TFA and the TROS were really fun films to watch and had a lot of cool things happen and I loved that TLJ was an attempt at a real 'movie' so to speak....and I personally like what was done with Luke's arc in it.

[bosk1]

nevermind, guess I'm just pissing on the parade.

Eh, I just take it as a sign that you are properly hydrated.     

Marvel can put out 23 movies in 10 years, make them all very cohesive and logical. Star Wars can't even do 3 cohesive films in 6 years but they get a pass. ight

I think these three films are plenty cohesive.

But funny that you make the Marvel comparison, because I was just thinking about that a little while ago as I was driving in to work this morning and thinking back on the weekend and, specifically, seeing the movie.  I think your point is simultaneously a great observation and a terrible comparison.  And I say the latter simply because what the MCU managed to achieve is unprecedented.  Those managing other film universes can and should absolutely aspire to that.  But I think drawing comparisons after the fact and criticizing other film franchises for failing to reach that lofty height is simply missing just HOW lofty a height that is. 

(And probably doesn't need to be mentioned, but I'll throw it out there anyway:  As much as I love the MCU as a whole to date, there were definitely some cracks beginning to show late last phase and all throughout this phase in terms of the overall cohesiveness.  Those with a critical eye, myself included, have to sometimes actively ignore a few inconsistencies in timeline, character, and theme.  But since the whole thing was still done SO overwhelmingly well, it's not hard to overlook those little things.  But all I'm really trying to say is, as phenominal as the MCU has been on that point, it isn't  "perfect" at all.)

[The Walrus]

Never said it was perfect, but they don't have the fundamental structural and logical issues that this trilogy does, not even close, and the point was that they managed to pull off, by and large with very few hitches, and it was indeed unprecedented, and they managed to do it multiple times a year, linking multiple films and story arcs together. This trilogy failed on most of those fronts in my eyes.

Freaking cool visuals though, hot damn. And best use of the Force ever. More cool stuff done with it than in any other film.

[gmillerdrake]

A few things (and not meant to go after Gary, but since he raised some good points that I want to push back on, I'm quoting his post in particular):

1.  This:

I’m assuming that Finn was trying to tell Rey the whole time that he has been growing in the force somehow? It was hinted at like a hundred times and that’s a massive fail on their part by putting that out there so many times and then…..nothing? Just poor storytelling there.

Not sure what he was trying to tell her.  Maybe it was that he had feelings for her (I kinda thought that at a few points in time).  Dunno.  But more to the point, I have no idea how that could possibly be considered "poor storytelling."  A lot of times in life, we really want to tell somebody something, and for any of a number of reasons, we don't get around to it.  Not everything needs a payoff.  Real life isn't poor storytelling.

2.  This:

One of my issues is that no major character died. [/size]

Uh...Kylo Ren?  Sheev freakin' Palpatine?

Dude....I have no idea what was wrong with my Brain     Of course Kylo Ren died....not really a physical death but even so then Ben died.....so yeah....that was a major character. Palpatine while a 'major' character was a foregone conclusion that he'd die. I should have prefaced it by saying one of Poe, Finn or Chewie should have died. Maybe not 'should' have but it'd have been a statement had one of them died. Anyway......

As far as the Finn 'payoff' about what he was trying to say. I understand where you're coming from....I just think they made SUCH a big deal about it in the movie by having many scenes dedicated to him alluding to Rey and others...heck, even Poe was ribbing him....that to not even give further clues or give it a resolution seems like an oversight to me and something that could have easily been done.

First watch I thought it was that he (Finn) wanted to tell her he loved her or whatever.....second watch I'm convinced that he wanted to tell her the the Force had been 'working' in him somehow.

[bosk1]

On a slightly different topic, I will say this:  Going back to The Last Jedi, there were some things that bothered me, for sure.  But I liked the film overall, despite feeling that it ranks pretty low in the overall scheme of the SW universe.  The thing is when you have such a big, overarching story spanning multiple films, I find that my initial reactions to some of the films aren't necessarily consistent with my long-term reaction once I have had a chance to view the films in their "historical" context within the entire franchise.  In that vein, I was hoping that the little things that nagged at me about TLJ would feel like they "fit" better and would kind of fall away after seeing The Rise of Skywalker.  But unfortunately, I kind of feel the opposite.  To me, ROS was such a great film and so superior to TLJ to me that I feel like TLJ really suffers in comparison.    Oh well. 

[gmillerdrake]

To me, ROS was such a great film and so superior to TLJ to me that I feel like TLJ really suffers in comparison.    Oh well. 

I feel like ROS completely ignores TLJ. Outside of Luke and Snoke dying and Ren becoming the Supreme leader......TLJ seems like a massive waste of time now after watching ROS. I really thing with some tweaks ROS could have/should have been the follow up to TFA.....leaving a final film of a major battle between a fully trained Jedi in Rey and Ben Solo and Palpatine.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

EDIT: nevermind, guess I'm just pissing on the parade. Seems like I'm the only one who enjoys dissecting this stuff and pointing out why I feel they've done such a disservice to this saga. Sorry

Marvel can put out 23 movies in 10 years, make them all very cohesive and logical. Star Wars can't even do 3 cohesive films in 6 years but they get a pass. ight

Au contraire... I actually agree with you that cohesiveness was a problem with the sequels. For example, the question of Rey's parentage seemed to fly all over the place. However, I am curious to know how much I was affected by knowing that Disney did not have a plan behind the scenes. Am I exaggerating the lack of cohesiveness (IMO) because the making of these films was so widely covered? Or is it a legitimate issue that future generations will notice as well? The good news is that we only have to wait another decade to find out what today's children think...

[bosk1]

@Gary:  The Finn thing could very well be true.  It is consistent with something he says fairly late in the film, so you could very well be right.  But while I would like to know what he was getting at, I'm fine not knowing, that's all.  And part of me actually likes the fact that it was kept a mystery.