Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)  (Read 248293 times)

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #945 on: December 15, 2018, 05:11:26 AM »
Just to be sure .... for those that didn't already know, take note of who made that vid.

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Offline Darkstarshades

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #946 on: December 22, 2018, 02:24:52 AM »
Does anybody here know or can share what were the fan theories about the clone wars, or about Anakin's reasons to go evil, or Palpatine's rise to power BEFORE The Phantom Menace, and thus, the prequel trilogy, was released?

Whad did you believe? what was the "consensus"?
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #947 on: December 22, 2018, 11:05:09 AM »
My personal theory, which was mostly in line with what my friends thought, was that The Clone Wars were what somehow led to the fall of The Republic and the rise of The Empire.  Since it was The Clone Wars (emphasis on plural), perhaps it was something like World War I and World War II.  An ongoing period of hostility and volatility that had multiple flashpoints, and eventually fractured The Republic and allowed The Empire to rise to power by providing stability, gathering and uniting dissatisfied factions and independents.  Unlike the World Wars on our planet, however, the result was more like if Nazi Germany had won.  The Empire did indeed unite most of the surviving powers, but as it is generally believed Nazi Germany would have done, it was an oppressive leadership, not a benevolent one.

I remember thinking that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker were buddies, basically equals, not in a mentor/mentee relationship.  They flew missions together in The Clone Wars, whatever that meant, and time and time again, Anakin Skywalker showed how he was the greatest pilot ever.  Obi-Wan grieved the loss of his friend to the Dark Side, which is true either way, but in my mind it was more like a guy you've known and hung out with since school days falling in with a bad crowd and becoming a felon, not a former student going bad.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #948 on: December 23, 2018, 02:34:04 AM »
One thing I really liked about "The Clone Wars" animated show, is the way they expanded the friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

If you watch only Episodes 2 and 3, you get the idea that while they are master and apprentice and have respect for each other, they also have a lot of disdain for each other on both sides. That one episode arc where Obi-Wan fakes he's death to go undercover as a bounty hunter, shows how much he meant for Anakin and how far he was willing to go to avenge he's "death".

They were brothers, and I didn't really get that from AOTC and ROTS.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #949 on: December 23, 2018, 02:56:13 AM »
My personal theory, which was mostly in line with what my friends thought, was that The Clone Wars were what somehow led to the fall of The Republic and the rise of The Empire.  Since it was The Clone Wars (emphasis on plural), perhaps it was something like World War I and World War II.  An ongoing period of hostility and volatility that had multiple flashpoints, and eventually fractured The Republic and allowed The Empire to rise to power by providing stability, gathering and uniting dissatisfied factions and independents.  Unlike the World Wars on our planet, however, the result was more like if Nazi Germany had won.  The Empire did indeed unite most of the surviving powers, but as it is generally believed Nazi Germany would have done, it was an oppressive leadership, not a benevolent one.

I remember thinking that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker were buddies, basically equals, not in a mentor/mentee relationship.  They flew missions together in The Clone Wars, whatever that meant, and time and time again, Anakin Skywalker showed how he was the greatest pilot ever.  Obi-Wan grieved the loss of his friend to the Dark Side, which is true either way, but in my mind it was more like a guy you've known and hung out with since school days falling in with a bad crowd and becoming a felon, not a former student going bad.

That would have been reasonable.

Sadly, they went for a story that didn't really match up. What's the first thing that Darth Vader told Obi Wan after not seeing him for 20 years? "When I left you I was but an apprentice, now I am the master".

Dude. HE left YOU. For dead. To burn away near a river of lava with your limbs chopped off.

I mean, you see Revenge of the Sith and then A New Hope, and it just doesn't feel like a proper continuation from where they left off. That sentence of A New Hope fits better with your scenario than what actually happened.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #950 on: December 23, 2018, 06:50:43 AM »
I forgot about the "I was an apprentice, now I am the master" line.  Did Obi-Wan, in relating the story to Luke, ever mention being Anakin's "master"?  Maybe the image I got in my head of Anakin and Obi-Wan being war buddies got stuck and was never revised when I heard that Anakin was actually his apprentice.

The main thing I remember is that we all had our fan theories, and when the prequels came out, we were very excited to see how they played out, how close we were, and George seemed to intentionally want to give us some surprises, which is fine, but they were to the point where they actually contradicted what was said in the original trilogy... "from a certain point of view".

Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #951 on: December 23, 2018, 07:50:32 AM »
L: No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.
O: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.
L: You fought in the Clone Wars?
O: Yes. I was once a Jedi knight, the same as your father.
L: I wish I'd known him.
O: He was the best starpilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior. I understand you've become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a good friend.
Which reminds me, I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.

L: How did my father die?
O: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.


Darth Vader: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.

Darth Vader: I’ve been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the Master.

That Darth Vader was Obi-Wan's apprentice was always clear in the first film. It's probably fair to say that the perception of the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin more as "war buddies" rather than student and teacher comes across because of the obfuscation of "your father" and "Darth Vader" being spoken of differently (of course at the time it was filmed they might have been intended to be different people, I can't remember the history of when the twist was first conceived of). There's still enough in what Obi Wan said about Luke's father that it makes sense he was his apprentice (it's implied he "followed" Obi-Wan) but it definitely highlighted the camaraderie between equals rather than the student-teacher relationship (Obi-Wan says he was a Jedi knight "the same as your father", and he was a "good friend").
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 07:56:05 AM by RuRoRul »

Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #952 on: December 23, 2018, 10:50:01 AM »
I think the issue is, that when those lines were written,  Anakin and Vader were 2 different people.

Offline Darkstarshades

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #953 on: December 23, 2018, 10:56:25 AM »
I think the issue is, that when those lines were written,  Anakin and Vader were 2 different people.

Absolutely this.
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Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #954 on: December 23, 2018, 12:18:34 PM »
I get that (which was why I mentioned the intention when it was filmed was that they were treated as different people, even if looking back it's thankfully also consistent with the later twist with Obi-Wan just being evasive without directly lying by talking about Darth Vader and Anakin separately). Someone asked if it was ever mentioned Obi-Wan was Anakin's mentor, and those quotes are pretty much all references to both the Darth Vader-Obi-Wan and Anakin-Obi-Wan relationships in film one and basically give the answer: it was always explicit Obi-Wan was Darth Vader's mentor, but wasn't originally explicit that Obi-Wan was Luke's father's mentor with what's said definitely highlighting a camaraderie between them rather than mentor-student, but they thankfully don't contradict him Obi-Wan being Anakin's mentor either (the closest reference to it though is the idea of Anakin "following" Obi-Wan).
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 12:24:19 PM by RuRoRul »

Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #955 on: December 23, 2018, 09:35:37 PM »
So it's really a matter of Lucas very carefully dancing around the words, getting away with as much as he could, without directly contradicting what was said.  Anakin Skywalker was Obi-Wan's friend.  Darth Vader was Obi-Wan's student, and Darth Vader murdered Anakin Skywalker.

When Obi-Wan tells Luke that everything he said was true "from a certain point of view" it was Lucas telling us the audience the same thing.  No contradiction, just a careful choice of words; sorry if you jumped to the wrong conclusion.

Offline Grappler

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #956 on: December 29, 2018, 07:52:51 PM »
I finally saw Solo last night for the first time.  I see very few reasons to be critical of this movie - it's everything I want from a Han Solo "origin" story.  How does he become a smuggler?  How does he meet Chewie ( :heart), how does he meet Lando, how does he get the Falcon, what is the Kessel Run?  Darth Maul was really the only thing that I thought was just completely shoe-horned into the movie. 

Lando's droid was awesome, and I love that she had a great personality beyond the typical 3PO protocol droid, and was a female as well - I don't think there has been a lead droid in this universe that has been female yet.   Donald Glover was amazing as Lando - his first line just oozes with a Billy Dee Williams sound to his voice.  And I had no problem with Alden at all.

It's hard to not watch this movie and get a warm fuzzy feeling as Han interacts and develops a relationship with Chewie, knowing how they end up as life-long partners.  That's really the heart of his movie.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #957 on: January 02, 2019, 07:12:47 AM »
I finally saw Solo last night for the first time.  I see very few reasons to be critical of this movie - it's everything I want from a Han Solo "origin" story.  How does he become a smuggler?  How does he meet Chewie ( :heart), how does he meet Lando, how does he get the Falcon, what is the Kessel Run?  Darth Maul was really the only thing that I thought was just completely shoe-horned into the movie. 

Lando's droid was awesome, and I love that she had a great personality beyond the typical 3PO protocol droid, and was a female as well - I don't think there has been a lead droid in this universe that has been female yet.   Donald Glover was amazing as Lando - his first line just oozes with a Billy Dee Williams sound to his voice.  And I had no problem with Alden at all.

It's hard to not watch this movie and get a warm fuzzy feeling as Han interacts and develops a relationship with Chewie, knowing how they end up as life-long partners.  That's really the heart of his movie.

I think my opinion is in the same realm as yours. I enjoyed the movie. My sense is that people were more critical of the film than it deserved because they were still angry about The Last Jedi. Kind of the opposite situation to Rogue One, where people were probably a little more positive than they otherwise would have been because the franchise was riding high after Force Awakens. Again, that is just my subjective interpretation of the situation. Ultimately, Star Wars films are kind of impossible to judge. :lol
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #958 on: April 03, 2019, 11:32:53 AM »
Controversial opinion:  Thus far, the two "A Star Wars Story" spinoffs have been better as a whole than Eps. VII and VIII.  (although I have enjoyed them all)

Anyway, just wanted to pop in here due to my observation that it has been very quiet on the Star Wars front, given that the trilogy is set to wrap up in a few months.  We don't even have a title for Ep. IX yet.  I am guessing we will get a trailer with Endgame. 
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #959 on: April 03, 2019, 11:38:35 AM »
I would totally agree that Solo and Rogue one are better then Episode 8. I am pretty fond of Force awakens though, so I would say that they at least match up or come close to matching up with 7.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #960 on: April 03, 2019, 12:10:14 PM »
Agreed. IMO Rogue One by itself is better than VII and VIII combined.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #961 on: April 03, 2019, 12:15:41 PM »
Really dug R1.....Solo was a 'good' movie......Loved TFA and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #962 on: April 03, 2019, 12:16:57 PM »
...and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I don't know what's rare about that.  It is a great movie.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 01:38:26 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #963 on: April 03, 2019, 12:21:48 PM »
Controversial opinion:  Thus far, the two "A Star Wars Story" spinoffs have been better as a whole than Eps. VII and VIII.  (although I have enjoyed them all)

Anyway, just wanted to pop in here due to my observation that it has been very quiet on the Star Wars front, given that the trilogy is set to wrap up in a few months.  We don't even have a title for Ep. IX yet.  I am guessing we will get a trailer with Endgame.

I would rank the four most recent Star Wars movies thusly:

1. The Last Jedi
2. Rogue One
3. The Force Awakens


4. Solo

What does "get a trailer with Endgame" mean?


Really dug R1.....Solo was a 'good' movie......Loved TFA and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I think TLJ is no worse than the third best Star Wars movie, but it seems pretty clear to me that it is the most polarizing of the Star Wars movies, with large chunks of the fan base who love it and large chunks who hate it.  We saw it as a family, and my wife LOVES the Star Wars series, but she didn't like TLJ to the point that she doesn't have any interest in seeing Trixie (i.e., Ep. IX).  My kids were always take it or leave it, so it looks like I'll be going "solo" to Ep. IX.
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Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #964 on: April 03, 2019, 12:25:58 PM »
I haven't finished watching SOLO. I remember I started watching it, and left it just when they were trying to escape from a city. I felt  asleep

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #965 on: April 03, 2019, 12:30:32 PM »
...and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I don't know what's rare about that.  I is a great movie.

Yup.

I'd say I still like TFA best, out of all the Disney era SW movies. Followed by TLJ, Solo and R1.

R1 was way too downbeat, and had a huge cast of forgettable characters. It's a beautiful mess, as some of the action scenes are great to look at. Solo was fun and felt a lot like the original Star Wars. TLJ is too long and a bit messy, but has some of my favorite scenes of the entire saga. Yoda giving Luke a pep talk in front of the burning Jedi tree, is one of my favorite moments in the whole saga.

TFA is a "soft reboot" done right!

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #966 on: April 03, 2019, 12:47:42 PM »
What does "get a trailer with Endgame" mean?

It means that when Endgame is released in approximately 3 1/2 weeks, I would not be surprised if the trailer for "trixie" shows up in the previews.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #967 on: April 03, 2019, 12:52:06 PM »
The reason the new trilogy hasn't stuck with me whatsoever is that there's no soul. There's no heart to it. There's no character development. We're heading into the final act here and I still know jack all about Rey (she's an orphan who can use the Force, okay), Finn (he's a rebel, okay), Poe (he's a pilot, okay), Captain Phasma (absolutely NOTHING, but hey, she seemingly died), Snoke (set up to be a huge villain only to be cut down as soon as they meet him in 8 and there's nothing more about him ever said, okay)... The only character who has had a half-decent focus so far is Kylo Ren and, unfortunately, that's mostly because of where he falls in the family tree and how his training with Luke affected him. Even the prequels had some growth for Anakin, as bad as it might have been.

I've just been thinking about the new trilogy a lot lately, especially yesterday, and it feels like they have spent almost no effort in trying to grow these characters. Seems like the entire project is more caught up with all the visual side of things instead of the substance. They're dressing up the plate, but there's just a tiny sliver of meat surrounded by elegantly spread sauces and garnishments.

(And Maz Kanata, and Rose, and the Order of Ren, and...)
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #968 on: April 03, 2019, 01:07:51 PM »
I largely agree with the basis behind that. I enjoyed to some degree watching both Eps 7 and 8 in the theater, but seemed to have forgotten everything that happened and lost all interest in the experience by the time I got to my car in the parking lot. But haven't been able to understand why.

Regarding "knowing nothing about Capt Phasma," the same could be said about Boba Fett, so why did audiences find him interesting in a way we don't with Phasma? Genuine question. I am not only enough to fully remember seeing TESB in 1980, but I do remember thinking Boba Fett was pretty cool, just not why I thought that.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #969 on: April 03, 2019, 01:09:47 PM »
Boba Fett is pretty much the same to me as Captain Phasma, honestly. I've never understood the hype.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #970 on: April 03, 2019, 01:19:26 PM »
...and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I don't know what's rare about that.  I is a great movie.

TLJ seems to take a lot of crap.....at least more bashing than praise.

It's funny because the people who didn't like TFA largely didn't like it because there was too much fan fare or fan pleasing for their tastes. Then....what appears to be the same people bash TLJ because there wasn't any fan fare or fan pleasing going on  :lol
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #971 on: April 03, 2019, 01:20:08 PM »
The reason the new trilogy hasn't stuck with me whatsoever is that there's no soul. There's no heart to it. There's no character development. We're heading into the final act here and I still know jack all about Rey (she's an orphan who can use the Force, okay), Finn (he's a rebel, okay), Poe (he's a pilot, okay), Captain Phasma (absolutely NOTHING, but hey, she seemingly died), Snoke (set up to be a huge villain only to be cut down as soon as they meet him in 8 and there's nothing more about him ever said, okay)... The only character who has had a half-decent focus so far is Kylo Ren and, unfortunately, that's mostly because of where he falls in the family tree and how his training with Luke affected him.

I don't really get this criticism.  I mean, let's compare, looking at what was actually given to us about those characters:

-Rey:  She's an orphan forced to scratch out a living doing hard labor for, basically, a slaver.  When confronted with a struggle for the common good, she overcomes her desire to just return to the life she knew and to instead take up the struggle for the common good.  She is apparently very force-sensitive, despite apparently NOT coming from a well-known lineage.  She is also headstrong and tempted by the dark side.  She sees the good in people, and she sees the value of the force in helping with the larger overall struggle, so she does everything in her power to convince the last living Jedi in the galaxy to train her.  She is also simultaneously drawn to the bad guy while being drawn toward destroying him if necessary.

-Finn:  Taken from his family at so young an age that he cannot remember them, and brainwashed to be a tool for the New Order.  He rebels against that because of the goodness in him--which eventually makes him a reluctant participant in the Resistance.  When push comes to shove, he is willing to put himself on the line and sacrifice himself for others.

-Poe:  Incredibly skilled pilot who has is overly self-confident, to the point where he takes unnecessary risks that, rather than helping others, make things worse due to his lack of thinking through the consequences.  He appears to have learned the hard way that that kind of approach can be destructive, and is set up to have that arc pay off in the final act. 

-Kylo:  Comes across as just an immature, unstable, self-centered person, but is more complex and conflicted than that.  He is ruthless and sees himself as serving the greater good, but is blinded by his own ambition.  After killing his father and betraying his master, he is now THE leader of the most powerful military force in the galaxy and appears to have all but crushed any real resistance.

-Snoke:  Big bad villain whose past is obscure.  He is the puppet master behind everything.  He is incredibly powerful and looked to be unstoppable.  Unfortunately, he is also incredibly dead (or so it seems). 

Vs. this as of the conclusion of Empire:

-Luke:  Orphaned and lived with his uncle and aunt as a poor moisture farmer, but there is more to his family history.  After his aunt and uncle die, he becomes kind of a classic underrated hero figure who rises above his circumstances, frees the princess, and trains to become a powerful jedi himself.  And--oh, crap!--the most evil guy in the galaxy turns out to be his dad.  But at the end of two films, he's still whiny and petulant, and doesn't REALLY seem to have learned his lesson.

-Leia:  Princess.  Respected leader.  Love interest to Luke--no, wait--make that Han. 

-Han:  Self-absorbed smuggler, who is in trouble with some gangster named Jabba.  Pretty impressive pilot, or so he says.  But is able to see the greater good and that he can be part of the solution, so he gets involved.  His motives are always somewhat opaque, but you get the sense that he is genuinely a good guy.

-Vader:  Someone that is not to be trifled with.  At all.  And yet, we get the sense that he is not in charge and he knows it.  Ruthless, but may have a soft spot for his son.  Not much more depth than that.

-The Emperor:  The puppet master.  Very powerful.  We don't know anything more than that. 

I mean, is there really much difference in the character arcs of the main characters two films into each trilogy?  They look pretty similar to me.  Yeah, overall, you can say that the plot overall, and how the characters fit into it all, feels a bit derivative by now.  But I think that's to be expected.  I think what has been done with the characters to this point is VERY similar to what we saw in the OT.  And for someone who doesn't like the OT either, that's fine.  Or for someone who can acknowledge the lack of depth in the OT and has just grown tired of it and doesn't feel like that sort of thing can be sustained for now 9 films without losing interest, that's fine too.  But let's not pretend that there is a vast difference.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #972 on: April 03, 2019, 01:26:18 PM »
Regarding "knowing nothing about Capt Phasma," the same could be said about Boba Fett, so why did audiences find him interesting in a way we don't with Phasma? Genuine question. I am not only enough to fully remember seeing TESB in 1980, but I do remember thinking Boba Fett was pretty cool, just not why I thought that.

Because Lucas said Boba Fett was awesome, and the public (me included) largely shrugged and said, "Oh, okay, cool.  He's awesome then."

Sure, that's oversimplifying it.  But it's still basically accurate.  Long before Ep. V came out, Boba Fett was the cool, mysterious new character in the next film whose limited edition action figure you could get ONLY by sending in the proofs of purchase from other action figures and getting it sent to you in the mail.  Then they discontinued that run prematurely because some kid somewhere allegedly choked on the little rocket piece from his jet pack, so that version of the action figure became even MORE rare when they replaced it with a version where the rocket was just molded into the pack.  And there was other hype as well.  So long before you even saw the character, he was hyped as the coolest thing ever.  And we all bought into it.  But the difference between him and Phasma is that, IMO, Boba Fett was actually used fairly well in V and VI.  Phasma has a cool look, and was initially set up to be somebody formidable.  But every time she is given an opportunity to do something, she just fails miserably and shows that she is really lacking.  IMO, they've severely mishandled her as a character.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #973 on: April 03, 2019, 01:44:26 PM »
I mean, is there really much difference in the character arcs of the main characters two films into each trilogy?  They look pretty similar to me.  Yeah, overall, you can say that the plot overall, and how the characters fit into it all, feels a bit derivative by now.  But I think that's to be expected.  I think what has been done with the characters to this point is VERY similar to what we saw in the OT.  And for someone who doesn't like the OT either, that's fine.  Or for someone who can acknowledge the lack of depth in the OT and has just grown tired of it and doesn't feel like that sort of thing can be sustained for now 9 films without losing interest, that's fine too.  But let's not pretend that there is a vast difference.

Not to dismiss the rest of your post, bosk - I just want to address this specifically, since there was a lot of other meat on the bones of that post, so to speak. I'm not saying this to hold up the OT over the new ones, because I in fact don't think the original trilogy is good either, and shares the same flaws as these. It's partially why I'm so much more disappointed in the new ones, because they've failed to do better on that front. I don't at all think there's a difference, that's my exact point whenever I talk to people and tell them how much wasted potential there has been with every single one of these films (I don't think there is a single 'great' Star Wars movie, not one).
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #974 on: April 03, 2019, 01:45:26 PM »
That is amazing that kind of hype could be generated in 1980, pre-internet!

Agree about Phasma. I cannot honestly say I remember anything she did in either film.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #975 on: April 03, 2019, 01:49:21 PM »
...and I guess I'm one of the rare people who really liked TLJ. I thought it was a great movie.

I don't know what's rare about that.  It is a great movie.

TLJ seems to take a lot of crap.....at least more bashing than praise.

It's funny because the people who didn't like TFA largely didn't like it because there was too much fan fare or fan pleasing for their tastes. Then....what appears to be the same people bash TLJ because there wasn't any fan fare or fan pleasing going on  :lol

I dunno.  I liked it a lot.  To me, it had two glaring flaws:

1.  For all that was happening, the timeline was way too compressed.  We should have just seen some passing of time to indicate that a lot of the events were actually playing out over a longer time period.  But then again, this is an issue with virtually ALL of the films, not just this one.  But it's just more apparent in this one because you have events such as Rey training with Luke and the casino planet subplot, which SHOULD have taken much longer.  But you were constantly reminded that it was such a short period of time because of the space chase arc.  So although I knew the other films did similar things, I could more easily ignore it in the other films. 

2.  The casino planet and the keymaster.  *sigh*  There was a lot that was cool about this idea, but it seemed to constantly fail for a lot of reasons.  This is where the film looses a lot of points with me, and I seem to be kinder than most in that regard.

Still, despite its flaws, it did so many things well and was a really fun movie.  It is my least favorite of the Disney batch.  But I like it a lot--probably more than any of the prequels.

I mean, is there really much difference in the character arcs of the main characters two films into each trilogy?  They look pretty similar to me.  Yeah, overall, you can say that the plot overall, and how the characters fit into it all, feels a bit derivative by now.  But I think that's to be expected.  I think what has been done with the characters to this point is VERY similar to what we saw in the OT.  And for someone who doesn't like the OT either, that's fine.  Or for someone who can acknowledge the lack of depth in the OT and has just grown tired of it and doesn't feel like that sort of thing can be sustained for now 9 films without losing interest, that's fine too.  But let's not pretend that there is a vast difference.

Not to dismiss the rest of your post, bosk - I just want to address this specifically, since there was a lot of other meat on the bones of that post, so to speak. I'm not saying this to hold up the OT over the new ones, because I in fact don't think the original trilogy is good either, and shares the same flaws as these. It's partially why I'm so much more disappointed in the new ones, because they've failed to do better on that front. I don't at all think there's a difference, that's my exact point whenever I talk to people and tell them how much wasted potential there has been with every single one of these films (I don't think there is a single 'great' Star Wars movie, not one).

Okay, that's fair. 
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #976 on: April 03, 2019, 02:20:12 PM »
What Katt stated a few posts up... that's a great way to articulate how I feel with this current trilogy.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #977 on: April 03, 2019, 02:40:38 PM »
What Katt stated a few posts up... that's a great way to articulate how I feel with this current trilogy.

Yea, that same issue is in R1 and a big reason why I rank it low in the franchise although it's actually a decent movie in and of itself, it's just the characters are so forgettable.  Shit, I forget who Phasma even is too, the new trilogy's characters are so uninteresting although as with R1, I don't think the story is bad (even TLJ I enjoyed) but the characters just hold it back so much.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #978 on: April 03, 2019, 02:48:42 PM »
Ironically, I found Rogue One characters to be more memorable.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #979 on: April 03, 2019, 03:19:25 PM »
What does "get a trailer with Endgame" mean?

It means that when Endgame is released in approximately 3 1/2 weeks, I would not be surprised if the trailer for "trixie" shows up in the previews.

So..."Endgame" is a movie?  Got it.


Boba Fett is pretty much the same to me as Captain Phasma, honestly. I've never understood the hype.

Maybe it's just a matter of how old I was in the ESB - ROTJ era and now, but the hype over Boba Fett was huge.  A lot of folks thought he was well set up to be some sort of total badass, and then he died in a rather unglorified way in ROTJ.  I know one person who was super geeked about Phasma, but they're otherwise very similar:  characters who had a lot of potential for badassery but who really didn't play much of a role in the larger storyline, so there was no reason to explore that potential.  I don't recall any pre-ESB hype about Boba Fett, but maybe some of my friends were into it.
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