Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)  (Read 248140 times)

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Offline Ninjabait

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #700 on: May 27, 2018, 07:03:42 PM »
Haven't seen Solo yet, but here'd be my ranking of the different Star Wars movies:

4.5/5ish:
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith

4/5ish:
A New Hope

3.5/5ish
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

imo Rogue One is seriously underrated.

So it sounds like Solo is not doing particularly well at the box office despite decent reviews and pretty much everyone I've heard thinking it was good. I'll be curious how this plays out for future Solo sequels, which were clearly planned.

Well, keep in mind that it has to compete with the tail end of Infinity War (which is STILL crushing almost everything a month later), as well as Deadpool 2. It got released at a really terrible time tbh and word of mouth hasn't kicked in yet.

Offline ronnibran

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #701 on: May 28, 2018, 07:06:10 AM »
I thought the Solo movie was great.  I didn't like Rogue One when I first saw it (I think it's decent now but in my SW rankings it's still at the bottom).  Didn't like The Last Jedi (now I like it, although it's in my lower half of SW rankings).

Without spoiling anything, I thought they did a really good job with the story.  There were some things I'd assumed would happen in the film and they did it in a way that was really nice.  And the cameo was great.

Can't wait to see it again, but will probably wait for it to come out on video now.

My current ranking (take the Solo rank with grain of salt since I've only seen it once):

New Hope
Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Empire Strikes Back
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menace
Rogue One

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #702 on: May 29, 2018, 08:18:38 AM »
I plan on seeing Solo but I'm not surprised at the numbers. I said before that they made a mistake releasing in May. They should have pushed it to the fall when there was less competition and was farther away from The Last Jedi.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #703 on: May 29, 2018, 08:33:14 AM »
I plan on seeing Solo but I'm not surprised at the numbers. I said before that they made a mistake releasing in May. They should have pushed it to the fall when there was less competition and was farther away from The Last Jedi.

Yeah....that has always been a curious decision. I wonder if they just chose to do that so there'd be more time between Solo and Ep. 9....maybe help 'build' anticipation for that one? Who knows. All I know is that Solo was a pretty solid effort and enjoyable movie and it's a bummer the numbers aren't there for it.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #704 on: May 29, 2018, 08:48:25 AM »
Going to see it today, I have zero expectations and am just going for some good old 'pew pew pew' fun, so I expect to leave happy. I also wonder at the release date, they had to know Infinity War would be killing it for a while, with Deadpool to boot.




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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #705 on: May 29, 2018, 08:51:33 AM »
Yeah....that has always been a curious decision. I wonder if they just chose to do that so there'd be more time between Solo and Ep. 9....maybe help 'build' anticipation for that one? Who knows. All I know is that Solo was a pretty solid effort and enjoyable movie and it's a bummer the numbers aren't there for it.

I think this was the primary factor:

Star Wars: A New Hope:   May 20, 1977

Solo: A Star Wars Story:   May 20, 2018


The Friday release date lined up nicely, 41 years later.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #706 on: May 29, 2018, 08:56:44 AM »
Ahhh, that makes some sense.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #707 on: May 29, 2018, 11:14:05 AM »
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #708 on: May 29, 2018, 11:18:14 AM »
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

100% agree.

Offline pg1067

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #709 on: May 29, 2018, 11:54:48 AM »
I saw Solo on Saturday.  I was underwhelmed.  Not bad, but I think my overall impression is that this was an origin story that really didn't need to be told.  I also felt like the movie was fairly generic, in the sense that the story didn't feel like it could only have been about Han Solo.  Change Chewbacca and the Falcon to some other sidekick and ship, and this could have be just any other space story.  I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).  Maybe I'll feel differently about this movie if there are sequels, but right now, I wouldn't rank this terribly highly.

By the way, if coinciding with the release date of ANH was really "the primary factor" in deciding when to release this movie, that's just nuts.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #710 on: May 29, 2018, 12:25:56 PM »
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #711 on: May 29, 2018, 12:40:45 PM »
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

Disagree with you on this one..

We definitely don't need an rated R Star Wars movie. A little bit darker, sure. But not rated R.

Rated R Star Wars goes against the original vision of Lucas, who has said multiple times over the years, that Star Wars is a kids movie first and foremost.

Like I said, a little darker is fine but not hard R.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #712 on: May 29, 2018, 01:04:55 PM »
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

Disagree with you on this one..

We definitely don't need an rated R Star Wars movie. A little bit darker, sure. But not rated R.

Rated R Star Wars goes against the original vision of Lucas, who has said multiple times over the years, that Star Wars is a kids movie first and foremost.

Like I said, a little darker is fine but not hard R.

Maybe not a 'hard R'.....but I'm thinking something more gritty than R1. Just a change of pace and different take. I get that the original vision was a kids movie but given how saturated the SW market is now and is going to continue to be you have to start thinking about using different approaches on some of these movies. They can't all be pillow fights and tickle wars.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #713 on: May 29, 2018, 01:19:36 PM »
They can't all be pillow fights and tickle wars.

Back in the 90s, I read a bunch of Star Wars novels (which I guess no longer officially exist).  I remember the Thrawn novels being REALLY good (and would make great movies), but there was one (don't remember the name) that centered around the discovery that Han Solo was actually the "King of Corellia."  I don't remember the plot, but I thought back to that plot when the new Solo film opened on Corellia.  The other thing I recall was that C3PO made up a song that went something like, "Han Solo; what a man, Solo."  I assume this was before Han and Leia married and was designed to incline her towards Han, but it was SO ham-handed.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #714 on: May 29, 2018, 03:58:34 PM »
Just got out of Solo. Pretty much what I expected, entertaining in a way only a Star Wars movie can be, predictable with a few surprises (hard not to be predictable when you know exactly where the hero is supposed to end up), but nothing earth shattering. Did enjoy the cameo, though it confused the shit out of me until a little google search showed it was possible. Doubt I'll see it again until it comes out on video.

Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #715 on: May 31, 2018, 10:32:47 PM »
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.
You seem to be in the minority. 7.1 on imdb, 71% on rottentomatoes, and everyone I've talked to/seen it with loves it so far. I liked it better than Rogue One, Last Jedi, and all the prequels.

The audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 58% so...

It seems just as divisive as the Last Jedi without the insane critical praise TLJ got.
It's up to 63. Seems this movie started out low and moved UP in ratings. I think everyone voted before seeing it, then people who liked it started weighing in to bring the average up. It started out with a mid 6 on imdb.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #716 on: June 01, 2018, 07:36:39 AM »
I still plan on seeing this but I've not heard any really negative reviews from people who have seen it. I think the poor numbers are attributed to poor scheduling on Disney's end. There was no need to release this in such a crowded time at the box office. I bet it would have done way better in the fall or even December. It's not like Disney is hurting after Avengers and they have Incredibles 2 and Ant Man and the Wasp coming soon. I bet it actually does pretty well over the weekend.

Offline Accelerando

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #717 on: June 02, 2018, 01:43:49 PM »
I think it’s a mix of both scheduling AND marketing. We got the first teaser for Solo only a few months ago during the Superbowl. What made the previous Disney era films so successful was building that anticipation. The trailer release during Celebration in a hall with thousands of Star Wars fans, and then another one a few months after. The music choices that evoked nostalgia also included both Leia’s and Rey’s theme. They were able to strategically stretch it out nearly flawlessy...until Solo because it was released 5 months after The Last Jedi.

I think the firing of Lord and Miller, Colon Travorrow, and also Josh Trank with the Boba Fett movie messed up Disney’s strategy. If I remember correctly, Episode 9 was suppose to start filming last year for a 2018 release, The Last Jedi was suppose to have a May 2017 release, and Solo was suppose to be December 2018.

This is where im in agreement with Kristian Harloff over at Collider. Kathleen Kennedy is a terrific producer, but isn’t the Kevin Feige type of storyteller these films need if we are going to start getting two films a year. And this where I’d like to see Dave Filoni take the reigns of that role and guide these movies.

Offline ariich

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #718 on: June 02, 2018, 02:34:05 PM »
I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).
Just to clarify that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't "extended universe", they're official canon as far as I know. Other than the movies, I think they're only other canon products.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #719 on: June 02, 2018, 07:52:14 PM »
Caught Solo last night, and I'm not sure if lowered expectations played into it but I came out pretty happy with it. Donald Glover was definitely the highlight, though I quite enjoyed Paul Bettany's role as well.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #720 on: June 04, 2018, 07:39:43 AM »

SPOLIERS


Saw Solo on Friday and I feel like I need to see it again to form a proper opinion. I enjoyed it and it was definitely not a bad film, but I still feel like it's my least favorite Star Wars film after one viewing. The whole story just seemed unnecessary. It was basically a two hour story showing how Han met Chewie and Lando. There were good action scenes and had it's funny moments but it just felt off a bit. Disney would have been better off making this move all about Quira. I think fans are ready for NEW stories with NEW characters. Rogue One was great and successful. There are plenty of character cameos that could be used like in Rogue One and Rebels. I hope after episode 9 this is the direction they go. I could be down for Bobba Fett if it's a dark hard PG-13 or R and Obi-Wan would be good ONLY if Ewan Mcgregor returns.

Honestly, I'm much more interested in what could be a followup film. I'd love to see Quira go to Dathomir with Maul and see her turn full on evil. Solo could have a small role or maybe even have this merge into the Bobba Fett film.

Disney is kicking themselves in the ass over this one though. I bet they double their profits if it releases in December. They'll still get a ton of money once it's released on blu-ray/digital but I'm guessing a direct sequel is not going to happen.

Offline pg1067

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #721 on: June 04, 2018, 10:36:46 AM »
I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).
Just to clarify that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't "extended universe", they're official canon as far as I know. Other than the movies, I think they're only other canon products.

"Canon"..."extended universe"...whatever.  While I understand what Disney did in terms of decreeing these cartoon series to be "canon" -- thereby technically making them fair game to draw from for the movies -- I'm guessing that a strong majority of otherwise devout Star Wars fans (like me) have never seen a single second of any of these cartoons.  That becomes a big problem when they pull something from the cartoons that appears to be complete nonsense to someone who has only seen the movies.  I saw Solo on 5/25, and my wife (who has also never seen anything other than the movies) saw it last Thursday.  She had a different interpretation of the scene under discussion, and, when I explained to her what was actually going on (based on research I did after seeing it myself), she thought it was completely B.S. and has now basically sworn off further Disney Star Wars product.

How much of this supposed "canon" do I need to digest for future movies to make sense?  Apparently there's two separate "Clone Wars" series (25 and 121 episodes) and something called "Rebels" (75 episodes) and something coming later this year called "Resistance"?  Are all of these things "canon" that I'll need to watch on the off chance that some future movie won't make sense if I don't?

This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #722 on: June 04, 2018, 11:23:11 AM »
This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.

Says who?  I don't read comics at all and I can enjoy the movies just fine.  Do I miss little easter eggs in the movie that a comic reader would notice?  Sure?  Does it make the movie worse for me?  Not at all.  They're fantastic films, and not watching them because I don't have time to read EVERY comic book associated with the stories is extremely silly.  Just watch them and enjoy them for what they are.

I don't watch any other Star Wars shows aside from the main films.  Maybe the Solo cameo scene would confuse me, since the last I've seen of that character was very definitive in preventing them from coming back, but the internet is fully available and ready for me to figure out how and why they are back.

It is entirely possible to not consume 100% of the "canon" materials from a franchise and still enjoy watching the films.  That's what I do and it works out well.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #723 on: June 04, 2018, 12:36:22 PM »
This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.

Says who?

Says me.  Since my comments that you quoted are exclusively about my personal enjoyment of Star Wars movies and my lack of enjoyment of the various superhero movies, my opinions are the only ones that matter.  I cannot, of course, speak for anyone else.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #724 on: June 04, 2018, 01:03:34 PM »
I think it's a bummer that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't as 'well known' as the movies because there are some really cool characters in them. As Bosk and others have pointed out anytime I mention a spin off concerning any of those characters.....they use basically your (pg1067) point of view as the perfect example of why they won't work. Not enough fans 'know' about CW's or Rebels....which would make those movies a tough sell. Which is unfortunate because there's a ton of potential there.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #725 on: June 04, 2018, 01:56:21 PM »
I think it's a bummer that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't as 'well known' as the movies because there are some really cool characters in them. As Bosk and others have pointed out anytime I mention a spin off concerning any of those characters.....they use basically your (pg1067) point of view as the perfect example of why they won't work. Not enough fans 'know' about CW's or Rebels....which would make those movies a tough sell. Which is unfortunate because there's a ton of potential there.

It would be one thing if they took something from one of the Cartoons and put it in a movie with enough explanation for it to make sense.  The problem is putting something in a movie (Solo) that makes absolutely no sense based on the existing movies.  From what I've read, the explanation of what we're alluding to seems awfully far-fetched, and that's my wife's point of view.  Maybe I'll try out the Clone Wars over the summer while none of my regular prime time shows are active.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #726 on: June 04, 2018, 02:03:57 PM »
I assume that Solo 2 would have done some explaining of Maul and how he is still alive since even Disney is smart enough to realize most people don't watch the animated tv shows. I viewed the reveal of Maul being a WTF moment that would be further explained in future movies. I think it's unlikely at this point Solo 2 ever gets made but who knows. Though a movie with Maul and Ki'ra being badass gangsters that we love to hate would be kind of interesting.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #727 on: June 04, 2018, 02:04:33 PM »
Maybe I'll try out the Clone Wars over the summer while none of my regular prime time shows are active.

It's a pretty cool show. I'd say 80% of it is worth it. They throw in episodes here and there that are duds but all in all it's neat. And, they're only like 22 minutes long each so you can jam out a few in the same amount of time if you were watching a movie. The best thing about Clone Wars is the fact you get to see Anakin in action as a full on Jedi and warrior prior to him turning to the Dark Side.

I'm half way through Season 3 of Rebels and it's about the same. There are some cool episodes then some that are just 'filler'.


But I totally get where you and your wife are coming from.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #728 on: June 04, 2018, 02:25:33 PM »
The best thing about Clone Wars is the fact you get to see Anakin in action as a full on Jedi and warrior prior to him turning to the Dark Side.

I would say similar things about the way a lot of the characters (Obi-Wan, Dooku, Grievous) are handled.  Taken together with the PT, it really does flesh out the PT and make those films "better" and smooth over some of the problems.  It still feels somewhat reconned.  But it does help. 

@pg1067, not sure what Marvel TV shows, if any, you have followed.  But I would compare it somewhat with Agents of SHIELD.  It provides a lot of backstory and universe expanding with what is going on in the Marvel films, but isn't essential viewing for any of them.  On the other hand, you have TV shows like Daredevil, and Jessica Jones, etc. that are MUCH more stand-alone--at least, in terms of not really being tied into the films much at all.  The Clone Wars is in the vein of AOS.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #729 on: June 04, 2018, 04:09:40 PM »
@pg1067, not sure what Marvel TV shows, if any, you have followed.  But I would compare it somewhat with Agents of SHIELD.  It provides a lot of backstory and universe expanding with what is going on in the Marvel films, but isn't essential viewing for any of them.  On the other hand, you have TV shows like Daredevil, and Jessica Jones, etc. that are MUCH more stand-alone--at least, in terms of not really being tied into the films much at all.  The Clone Wars is in the vein of AOS.

Let's put it this way:  according to Wikipedia, there are 19 movies to date in the "Marvel Cinematic Universe."  I believe I have seen 11 or 12 of those, with the last being Civil War.  I am familiar that some TV shows exist, but I've never watched any of them.

Part of my reluctance with the Star Wars cartoon series is that I didn't think much of the Clone Wars movie.  We'll see.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #730 on: June 04, 2018, 04:39:23 PM »
Just for clarification, are you talking about The Clone Wars animated movie or Attack of the Clones?  The series is much better than at least the first two films of the prequel trilogy, and perhaps better than the third (depending on who you ask).  I don't have a really clear recollection of the quality of the animated Clone Wars film, but seem to recall that it felt kind of like a "warmup" for the series.  It was decent, but not great.  And like a lot of series, it took a little while to get going and get its feet.  But once it got going, I felt it was pretty good.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #731 on: June 04, 2018, 05:09:46 PM »
Just for clarification, are you talking about The Clone Wars animated movie or Attack of the Clones?

The former (although I didn't think much of Attack of the Clones either).


I don't have a really clear recollection of the quality of the animated Clone Wars film, but seem to recall that it felt kind of like a "warmup" for the series.  It was decent, but not great.  And like a lot of series, it took a little while to get going and get its feet.  But once it got going, I felt it was pretty good.

I would say the animated movie was decent at best.  I don't remember it well either, but what I do remember is that it felt a bit ham-handed and the female jedi apprentice was annoying.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #732 on: June 04, 2018, 05:18:34 PM »
I just looked up the plot synopsis to refresh my memory.  Yeah, it wasn't very good.  I forgot that that was the baby Jabba episode.  And in fairness, I think there are episodes of TCW series that are of that quality.  But they are few and far between, especially once you get a few episodes in and it finds its feet.  The vast majority are a lot better than that.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #733 on: June 04, 2018, 05:47:16 PM »
I seen the movie last night. It appears that my opinion is vastly different than most people. I thought it was easily one of the best movies in the series. I would rank it around 4th or 5th.
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Offline Accelerando

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #734 on: June 04, 2018, 07:13:23 PM »
I just realized, in The Empire Strikes Back, when C-3PO says "I don't know where your ship learned to communicate, but it has the most particular dialect"....he was absolutely referring to L3  :omg: