Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)  (Read 248376 times)

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #595 on: March 28, 2018, 12:11:31 PM »
Just picked up the Blu Ray and Bonus material. Looking forward to watching it...especially now with the opinions I've read
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #596 on: March 29, 2018, 07:52:18 AM »
What's interesting is that I think Luke's story was handled great. I'm guess Mark has had 30 years to make up in his head how Luke's story should go and he was disappointed with the direction taken. In other words he's a typical star wars fan.  ;)

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #597 on: March 29, 2018, 07:57:15 AM »
I wasn't really disappointed that he choose to be a hermit all those years and didn't want to intervene. I was more disappointed that we didn't really see him train Rey much. Having her slowly open him up to her and train her a little more would have been nice. Especially given that we got that damn casino scene at the expense of more time with Luke and Rey. My main annoyance with the new trilogy is that Rey is becoming a very powerful Jedi with virtually no training at all. Jedi used to train for 20-ish year before they became a Jedi Knight. Now some girl just has the Force awaken within her and she's good to go. Overall I've liked both movies a lot, but I understand the general complaints about them.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #598 on: March 29, 2018, 08:40:37 AM »
My main annoyance with the new trilogy is that Rey is becoming a very powerful Jedi with virtually no training at all. Jedi used to train for 20-ish year before they became a Jedi Knight. Now some girl just has the Force awaken within her and she's good to go.

I hear you.  But keep in mind that Empire did the same thing with Luke.  He trained for, what, a couple of days tops with Yoda before running off to fight Vader.  And then in ROTJ, his powers have grown, despite that he apparently never returned and finished his training.  That could have easily been fixed by just doing a time lapse and explaining that Luke was on Dagobah for a few months, or even a couple of years, while Han, Leia, and Chewie spent that time hiding and on the run before finally ending up in Cloud City and being tracked there by the Empire.  And then have him return for more training between Empire and ROTJ.  But, no.  He trained for a couple of days and was good to go. 

So while I agree with your criticism wholeheartedly, it's kind of silly to hold that only against the new films when it was actually bad precedent that was set in the OT. 
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Offline YtseJam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #599 on: March 29, 2018, 09:43:50 AM »
Luke is also the son of Vader and it is clearly explained that he and his sister inherited his fathers ability to use the Force. Rey just has it  :tdwn

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #600 on: March 29, 2018, 10:25:17 AM »
Yes, but (1) who cares?  And (2) who cares?
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #601 on: March 29, 2018, 10:37:53 AM »
I do, but I also point out all the things that make the original trilogy god awful, too, so...  :biggrin: Like in bosk's post above, all I think is, "This is just making the case that Star Wars in general is not good"  :rollin
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #602 on: March 29, 2018, 10:38:02 AM »
I care.  I think that's a good point.  Luke started his training with Obi-Wan, then went to Dagobah to train further with Yoda.  We didn't see a lot with Yoda, but there was definitely enough to evoke the passage of time.  I always figured he was there at least a few weeks if not months.  But as the son of Anakin Skywalker, he had the natural ability already; it just needed focus.

Rey is supposedly the daughter of a couple of "nobodies" and we really saw very little to indicate that she trained with Luke for more than a couple of days.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #603 on: March 29, 2018, 10:53:56 AM »
Here's the thing, like many, Luke was one of, if not my favorite character. And like many, on first watch, I hated what they did. On second watch, I changed my mind. Yesterday was the first time I watched it at home instead of the theater, and found myself really appreciating what Johnson did.

Luke develops from a bitter old man who feels like he let the universe down, to a man who realizes he's been wallowing in self-pity and redeems himself and becomes a hero again, even showing just how strong (more than anyone else who we've seen) in the force he really is at the end with his iconic appearance. He ends up being the spark that drives a renewed upsurge (I assume) in the force and the rebellion.

The only thing I didn't like (aside from Super Leia, which is ridiculous) is Luke's flippant toss of the lightsaber at the beginning. If that particular move was cut, and he instead gave it back to Rey, I think it would have set a better tone from the outset.

Trust me, I am a Luke fanboy who wanted him to be the Luke of old. But by the time we got to the end, the Luke I've always known was once again there to save the day. And to be honest, I think Luke will have a critical role in the next film, as he will train Rey as a force ghost. I am guessing, but I do think there is more to Luke's story.

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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #604 on: March 29, 2018, 10:57:56 AM »
Luke develops from a bitter old man who feels like he let the universe down, to a man who realizes he's been wallowing in self-pity and redeems himself and becomes a hero again, even showing just how strong (more than anyone else who we've seen) in the force he really is at the end with his iconic appearance. He ends up being the spark that drives a renewed upsurge (I assume) in the force and the rebellion.

The only thing I didn't like (aside from Super Leia, which is ridiculous) is Luke's flippant toss of the lightsaber at the beginning. If that particular move was cut, and he instead gave it back to Rey, I think it would have set a better tone from the outset.

Yes.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #605 on: March 29, 2018, 11:00:39 AM »
I care.  I think that's a good point.  Luke started his training with Obi-Wan, then went to Dagobah to train further with Yoda.  We didn't see a lot with Yoda, but there was definitely enough to evoke the passage of time.  I always figured he was there at least a few weeks if not months.  But as the son of Anakin Skywalker, he had the natural ability already; it just needed focus.

Rey is supposedly the daughter of a couple of "nobodies" and we really saw very little to indicate that she trained with Luke for more than a couple of days.

Yes, but (1) so what?  And (2) so what?

Oh, and:
Luke trained for maybe a couple of hours on the Falcon with Obi Wan.
Luke trained for maybe a couple of days max with Yoda.  It is clear there is no significant passage of time because the Falcon isn't on the run for that long. 
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #606 on: March 29, 2018, 11:18:40 AM »
I care, and I know that you don't care that I care, but I don't care that you don't care that I care.

It is indeed a flaw in the script/directing/whatever that tries to show passage of time on Dagobah while apparently very little time has passed for Han and Leia.  I just don't care.  And I know that you don't care that I don't care, but...

Offline BlackInk

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #607 on: March 29, 2018, 11:58:42 AM »
The way Luke carries himself at the beginning of RotJ, I always assumed that he went back and trained more between the movies. Haven't ever looked into it, but that's what I just naturally assumed.

Also, who knows how long it takes to get to Cloud City without a functioning hyper driver. I think there could be a legit case made that Luke was training with Yoda for a significant longer period than the movie makes it appear.

A clear difference however, is that while Rey seems to have far less training, she has been put in situations where she has had a lot more success. Luke wasn't sufficiently trained when he first faced Vader, something both Yoda and Obi-Wan were keen to point out and were right about, he suffered terrible consequences because of it. He lost, hard. Vader was playing around with him, as he should have. I love Rey and think she is arguably the best thing about the new trilogy (even though she took the back seat a bit in TLJ), and while I'm usually on the other end of this argument, I can't deny that her lack of any apparent flaw or proper failure makes it easier for people to call her a Mary Sue.

I am personally all for the idea that her parents were nobodies, that is a brilliant twist in my opinion (aside from the fact that TFA doesn't seem to agree).

Offline Samsara

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #608 on: March 29, 2018, 01:01:04 PM »
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact. Age-old theme. And a good one.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #609 on: March 29, 2018, 01:02:36 PM »
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact.

"That was the point. Anyone could be the Batman"

Ehr, wrong franchise.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #610 on: March 29, 2018, 01:09:59 PM »
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact.

"That was the point. Anyone could be the Batman"

Ehr, wrong franchise.

 :lol

And totally wrong with Batman (even though I am a Nolan trilogy fanboy). But it works for Rey and TLJ
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #611 on: March 29, 2018, 02:09:53 PM »
I'm with those who think that Dagobah was at least weeks if not months of time, but I guess there's no way to know for sure. And realistically, Luke got as much actual Jedi training from Obi Wan on the Falcon that Luke gave to Rey during her time on the island. He didn't really train her at all other than having her reach out with the Force.




Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #612 on: March 29, 2018, 02:16:56 PM »
No one cared about those things with ESB/RotJ because they were too busy being wrapped up in an exciting, entertaining story.

We are also in the CinemaSins generation. As they themselves say, there is no movie without sins. In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #613 on: March 29, 2018, 02:26:38 PM »
In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.

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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #614 on: March 29, 2018, 02:32:23 PM »
That was a crappy show making fun of crappier movies. But.... touche.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #615 on: March 30, 2018, 07:34:02 AM »
We are also in the CinemaSins generation. As they themselves say, there is no movie without sins. In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.

Like Indy preventing the Ark from reaching successfully Berlin, and therefore melting just the faces of some random goonies rather than the entire head of the Reich instead  :lol
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #616 on: March 31, 2018, 06:39:49 PM »
I just finished the Blu-Ray bonus content. While I understand that Lucasfilm carefully crafts these things to present a certain image, I was still taken aback by all the genuinely awesome moments that were captured. Say what you want about the film, but I think that Rian Johnson's heart was in the right place. He poured a lot of love into it. You can also tell that the movie genuinely meant something to Carrie Fisher and others. :metal

Also, count me in the "I Don't Care That Rey Wasn't Trained" camp. Mostly because... Who cares? But also because the original trilogy set the precedent that training is merely a bonus. :millahhhh
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #617 on: March 31, 2018, 10:00:48 PM »
Just watched TLJ again with the kiddos. Every subsequent viewing I gain more and more appreciation for it. I just think it’s a really good movie. Looking forward to the Bonus material.
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Offline Grappler

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #618 on: April 02, 2018, 08:29:50 AM »
Finally watched The Last Jedi after a nearly 5 month wait.  Skipped it in the theaters - it's too hard to get out with two young kids.  I avoided most spoilers, except for three:  Luke dies, Luke isn't his old self, and Yoda appears.  I had no idea of how any of that happened or tied together, so the spoilers didn't really bother me.

I thought it was amazing on my first watch.  Yeah, I'd love a big, badass Jedi Knight Luke right from the get go, but within the story, it fully made sense to me where he's at and why he's done with being a Jedi.  Life isn't always happy.  We all go through experiences that beat us down - so why can't our favorite characters be that real as well?  I'm not going to re-read this thread, but I did see bosk note that preconceived notions are pretty much the stem of the movie's criticism, and I completely agree.  We all thought we'd know where this movie was headed and that it would answer all of those questions from TFA, and it didn't, and I'm glad for that.  You all thought TFA was a rip off?  Fine, here's a movie that isn't a rip off - we're going to take your favorite character and flip him on his head..  "Waaaaaah, it isn't what we wanted." 

Leia flying through space was silly, but the prequels all featured Force Pushing heavily, so why can't she reach out to the force in her greatest need and use it to pull herself through space?  It's just the opposite of a force push, and she was certainly incapacitated due to the event as well.  It's not like she got back onto the ship and was all fine and dandy from the get go.  I can overlook that stuff easily when these movies do exactly what I want - which is make me feel like I'm 10 years old again and draw me into this amazing universe. 

Offline BlackInk

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #619 on: April 02, 2018, 12:36:34 PM »
To once again address the ”personal preconcieved notions being everyone’s problem” bit, that hasn’t been the case for me or the people I’ve spoken to. A lot of people’s grievances seem to be based on perfectly legitimate critisisms. And as far as I can tell, the few critisims that actually are based on expectations are not personal at all, but often based on specific set-up from or questions raised by TFA, which is just not the same thing.

As for the Leia flying through space thing, I don’t personally mind it happening, I just wish it hadn’t looked so freakin’ dumb. That’s what ruined it for me.

Offline Accelerando

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #620 on: April 06, 2018, 03:01:59 PM »
Something was pointed out to me that i didn’t think about before. Johnson wrote TLJ during production for TFA, in which it was announced during said production that JJ would be an Executive Producer. There’s no way JJ and Johnson never had a conversation about the direction to go for Episode 8. I think the answers that people want are going to have to wait until Episode 9 (im in the crowd that thinks Kylo was lying to Rey about her lineage), and we are in the movie generation that wants the answers and twists right away. What Johnson did which I thought was brilliant was he gave us key character arcs for Kylo and Rey thats going to pay off moving forward. We know that Kylo will never be turned, that he killed both the conflicts that he was struggling with (Han and Snoke). Yeah, it would be interesting to know more of Snoke’s backstory, but I find it more intriguing that Kylo is the ultimate baddie going into episode 9. I’ll only be dissapointed if we never get to see any Knights of Ren action.

Something I’ve thought about the past few days.

My gf and are going to watch TLJ with Rian Johnsons commentary tonight. I hope it’s as insightful as that “The Dirctor and The Jedi” bonus feature on the blu-ray

Offline YtseJam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #621 on: April 06, 2018, 04:59:49 PM »
I hardly think it was brilliance... more like a total disconnect from the audience perspective. Commentary is just there to explain his bad story telling.

Offline Accelerando

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #622 on: April 06, 2018, 05:20:28 PM »
Hardly bad storytelling, but to each his own!

I guess The Last Jedi is the new “Dont bring up politics during Thanksgiving dinner”  :lol

Offline CrimsonSunrise

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #623 on: April 07, 2018, 01:15:38 AM »
Every subsequent viewing I gain more and more appreciation for it.
  I REALLY hope this is how it turns out for me.  When I saw it in the theaters certain things really bugged me.  The comic relief stuff, and of course Leia thwarting serious damage to herself out in the vacuum.  Anyone who knows me knows I'm pretty liberal with my reviews, and I like a LOT of movies that the gen pop critiques.  Such as the Prequels.... I enjoyed them.  Or the Matrix 2/3.  Loved those too!

This movie though....I picked up the BR yesterday and had a bit of a tough time watching it.  NEVER have I had that experience with a SW's movie.  :sadpanda:

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #624 on: April 08, 2018, 09:53:24 PM »
New Solo trailer our and up on youtube. Not following this movie's production at all. So not really sure what the story is. And I sure ain't getting it from the trailers. I get it, I am not supposed to (ignoring that some trailers go out of their way to show the entire movie in 2:30, but that's beside the point). On the surface, "Here's the backstory of the Han Solo we met in Ep4" isn't enough to get me interested.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #625 on: April 09, 2018, 01:07:07 AM »
The moment Lando said "buckle up baby" I was sold! :lol Donald Glover is going to give Billy Dee a run for his money.

I dug the trailer! I'm even starting to warm up to Ehrenreich as Han. From the trailer I got the feel of what Star Wars was originally about, a fun and slightly cheesy space adventure in the vein of the old adventure serials.

So, yeah! I'll go see it in the theater.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #626 on: April 09, 2018, 01:10:36 AM »
This trailer was definitely better than what we've previously seen, and Donald Glover looks like he's gonna kill it, but I'll be giving this one a miss.
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Offline Logain Ablar

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #627 on: April 09, 2018, 06:06:07 AM »
Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

I'm intrigued about that extra bit on the front of the Falcon, between the two front "jaws". What is it? Some kind of escape pod?

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #628 on: April 09, 2018, 06:18:33 AM »
I thought the trailer was good. Honestly my only hold-up about this movie is that it's supposed to be Han Solo. If he was supposed ot some other character I'd be super excited about it.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #629 on: April 09, 2018, 06:28:31 AM »
Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

That was always going to be the make or break for this film. I still can’t believe they thought that they could capture Han Solo from a different actor. Harrison Ford is Han Solo....he’s an iconic character. As with you, I’m open to the persuasion from the film and actor that it’s a young Han. I just don’t see how you can emulate what Harrison Ford did with that character. We shall find out soon....
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