Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)  (Read 248068 times)

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #385 on: January 28, 2018, 05:19:12 AM »
Nah it was awesome, the more I think about it, the more I think it's probably my second favourite behind Empire.

Certainly makes sense, since it's a clone of ESB.  :neverusethis:
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #386 on: January 28, 2018, 09:13:02 AM »
TLJ actually REALLY ticked me off at first, but it’s almost like the first time I heard Frank Zappa....you could tell there was a lot of thought behind it, but it was jarring....it challenged me. 

Now I think it’s an absolutely brilliant film.   I’ve said it elsewhere, and I can’t remember if I said it here or not, but The Force Awakens was pop music, and The Last Jedi is jazz.   I love this trilogy so far.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #387 on: January 28, 2018, 05:50:43 PM »
I can't say I see that comparison at all. They're both Hollywood pop music.
I had a lot of problems with TFA coming out of the cinema despite really enjoying it for what it was, but after thought and discussion, a lot of those problems could either be explained, or were acceptable pending where they took those plot points in the next film.
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #388 on: January 28, 2018, 08:41:45 PM »
TLJ actually REALLY ticked me off at first, but it’s almost like the first time I heard Frank Zappa....you could tell there was a lot of thought behind it, but it was jarring....it challenged me. 

Now I think it’s an absolutely brilliant film.   I’ve said it elsewhere, and I can’t remember if I said it here or not, but The Force Awakens was pop music, and The Last Jedi is jazz.   I love this trilogy so far.

Does that mean the prequels were Metal Machine Music?  :lol
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #389 on: January 28, 2018, 09:12:19 PM »
I had a lot of problems with TFA coming out of the cinema despite really enjoying it for what it was, but after thought and discussion, a lot of those problems could either be explained, or were acceptable pending where they took those plot points in the next film.
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.

Interesting assessment.  Unlike you though, I didn't think TFA had many problems, other than I didn't find it very interesting. I support your feeling TLJ destroyed much of what TFA established, if you feel it established anything worthwhile. I don't.

Looking back, for me the most interesting thing about TFA was Han, the most interesting thing about TLJ was Luke. *shrug.
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Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #390 on: January 29, 2018, 01:08:52 AM »
I didn't feel that TLJ destroyed any of the foundations set by TFA.

I felt that it shifted the focus away from things that were not important. I don't think anyone is going to miss a cgi emperor knockoff..

Most interesting part of this trilogy for me is Kylo Ren, and i liked that he moved into the spotlight as the main villain.

Offline noxon

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #391 on: January 29, 2018, 01:47:59 AM »
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)

Offline ariich

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #392 on: January 29, 2018, 02:52:44 AM »
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)
This so much.

I personally find the notion that TLJ ruined anything about TFA or the original trilogy very silly.

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #393 on: January 29, 2018, 05:01:58 AM »
Good post Noxon, though I will dispute one point regarding Jedi powers... two glaring examples from TFA that created the whole interwebz discussion on what powers they "should" have

1) 'freezing' a blaster bolt.  Vader couldn't (Cloud City dining room); Ren can.
2) Extracting memories.  Vader couldn't (Leia); Ren can.

I think that films in a franchise should respect the boundaries of what had been previously established - new technology and filming capabilities notwithstanding - eg, the evolution of light saber battles.
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #394 on: January 29, 2018, 05:24:18 AM »
Firstly, in terms of force abilities one should or should not have, I kind of see it as athletic feats. Most records keep being broken. They build on each other and improve naturally overtime. So I don’t find that implausible.

Secondly, while fan expectation absolutely plays a part, I don’t think it’s the whole issue. I love the ”Rey is nobody” twist, but I take issue with ”Snoke is nobody”. Why that is seems to be a very complicated matter, of which my personal expectations plays a minor part. That Snoke dies and Kylo Ren replaces him; great! Kylo is probably the most interesting character in this new trilogy so I love that he will take the top spot. But I have a bit of a problem with how it happened, because I felt that it lacked something from a storytelling perspective.

And of course, Canto Bight, which is just a bad sequence and has nothing to do with expectations.

Offline YtseJam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #395 on: January 29, 2018, 09:57:42 AM »
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.

I feel the same as you describe.

As far as Solo goes, my biggest question is why? Why F with Harrison Ford's Han Solo legacy? I get that he was a popular character but look at young Indiana Jones for that matter. It's way too soon for a Solo movie for me. I will not give them a penny for the viewing of that film even in concept.  :tdwn

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #396 on: January 29, 2018, 10:09:24 AM »
As far as Solo goes, my biggest question is why?
I feel the same way. Why mess with iconic characters? I'll still go see it though.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #397 on: January 29, 2018, 10:49:45 AM »
Good post Noxon, though I will dispute one point regarding Jedi powers... two glaring examples from TFA that created the whole interwebz discussion on what powers they "should" have

1) 'freezing' a blaster bolt.  Vader couldn't (Cloud City dining room); Ren can.
2) Extracting memories.  Vader couldn't (Leia); Ren can.

I think that films in a franchise should respect the boundaries of what had been previously established - new technology and filming capabilities notwithstanding - eg, the evolution of light saber battles.
Yeah but Vader is more of a bad-ass. He could just deflect the blaster bolt using the palm of his hand. Notice when Solo fires at him when the door opens to the banquet room. I'm sure Vader could have used the force to freeze it in mid-air, but he just handled it old school. lol
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #398 on: January 29, 2018, 11:33:55 AM »
Is Einstein any less of a genius because scientists today understand all of his theories and have expanded on them? Of course not. Kylo Ren simply took what Vader knew about the force and has expanded on it. Its no different than any field of study or athletics really. I don't need to have a manual about what is and is not possible with the force. As long as they make what seem to be incremental increases in force power rather than huge jumps, I'm OK with new force powers.

Offline Aelon

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #399 on: January 29, 2018, 11:54:33 AM »
I'm not positive, but don't different Sith Lords specialize in different aspects of the force? Kind of like Jedi get to choose the color of their lightsaber?
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #400 on: January 29, 2018, 02:49:30 PM »
Is Einstein any less of a genius because scientists today understand all of his theories and have expanded on them? Of course not. Kylo Ren simply took what Vader knew about the force and has expanded on it. Its no different than any field of study or athletics really. I don't need to have a manual about what is and is not possible with the force. As long as they make what seem to be incremental increases in force power rather than huge jumps, I'm OK with new force powers.

I see what you're saying, but I still think you're full of shit.   :rollin

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #401 on: January 30, 2018, 09:23:54 AM »
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)
This so much.

I personally find the notion that TLJ ruined anything about TFA or the original trilogy very silly.

Completely on board with you two.


ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #402 on: January 30, 2018, 10:08:04 AM »
ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.

It DOES get shredded to pieces. As do the prequels. They get held to a similar standard.
But if there's a significant contradiction or discrepancy, it's the recent film that's at fault, not the originals. One of the many many reasons why the prequels failed. That and the fact they just sucked on every level of film making. :lol
There are plenty of bullshit criticisms of the recent films, especially regarding Rey, but there are also plenty of very valid ones even compared objectively to the originals. And the originals are not without their own flaws either of course.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 10:14:58 AM by BlobVanDam »
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #403 on: January 30, 2018, 10:49:10 AM »
Not funny enough for the Funny Stuff thread, just weird and kinda twisted.  So it goes here.


Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #404 on: January 30, 2018, 11:15:59 AM »
 :rollin

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #405 on: January 30, 2018, 11:55:05 AM »
 :biggrin: :lol

That's funny!

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #406 on: January 30, 2018, 11:59:19 AM »
Personally, I would have put it in the Harvey Weinstein thread.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #407 on: January 30, 2018, 12:20:22 PM »
 :omg:

Offline YtseJam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #408 on: January 30, 2018, 05:16:03 PM »
ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.

It DOES get shredded to pieces. As do the prequels. They get held to a similar standard.
But if there's a significant contradiction or discrepancy, it's the recent film that's at fault, not the originals. One of the many many reasons why the prequels failed. That and the fact they just sucked on every level of film making. :lol
There are plenty of bullshit criticisms of the recent films, especially regarding Rey, but there are also plenty of very valid ones even compared objectively to the originals. And the originals are not without their own flaws either of course.

It was easier to overlook any flaws because the movies drew real emotions from the audience. None of those movies made me feel like I did when I saw this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9xytMepcj8

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #409 on: February 01, 2018, 07:01:06 PM »
Not funny enough for the Funny Stuff thread, just weird and kinda twisted.  So it goes here.


The most cringeworthy part of the whole movie!  Why Disney,, WHY?!?!
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #410 on: February 01, 2018, 08:38:53 PM »
I guess the idea was to explain how Luke had been surviving there all this time.  What did he eat, what did he drink?  This answered part of that, and I guess the scene where Chewy was roasting a puffin was the rest of the answer.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #411 on: February 01, 2018, 09:30:06 PM »
Was the milk that came out the blue milk? If so, it might have been a dumb easter egg to explain where blue milk comes from. Mostly I think it was just stuck in as a dumb joke though.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #412 on: February 01, 2018, 10:15:46 PM »
I guess the idea was to explain how Luke had been surviving there all this time.  What did he eat, what did he drink?  This answered part of that, and I guess the scene where Chewy was roasting a puffin was the rest of the answer.

Thy also showed him spearing a huge fish.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #413 on: February 01, 2018, 10:39:03 PM »
I thought he did, but I've only seen the movie once. 

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #414 on: February 01, 2018, 10:46:10 PM »
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #415 on: February 01, 2018, 11:00:18 PM »
Honestly, for most of lonely island Luke, I was just thinking to myself "BUT HOW IS HE EATING AND DRINKING AND STUFF!?!?!?"

So I'm glad they answered those important questions.

Jedi temple history? Nah. Weird Sith underground chamber of mirrors? Nah.

Milk and fish? YES!
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #416 on: February 02, 2018, 06:25:35 AM »
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.

Same genus, different species.  They all taste exactly the same.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #417 on: February 02, 2018, 07:15:19 AM »
Honestly, for most of lonely island Luke, I was just thinking to myself "BUT HOW IS HE EATING AND DRINKING AND STUFF!?!?!?"

So I'm glad they answered those important questions.

Jedi temple history? Nah. Weird Sith underground chamber of mirrors? Nah.

Milk and fish? YES!

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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #418 on: February 02, 2018, 10:17:18 AM »
I think that the official episodes will always be fighting an uphill battle because of fan expectations. Not only do they have to meet expectations as far as specific theories, but if the films are anything less than perfect, people will be disappointed because of the missed opportunity.

Speaking for myself, I went into VIII with no specific expectations. I enjoyed the movie. It's a solid 7/10 in my book. However, even though I consider myself to be a pretty low-maintenance fan, I can't shake a feeling of disappointment that I didn't enjoy it more. This is obviously completely unfair to the film, but that's kind of where Star Wars is now. It's hard to be logical about this stuff.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #419 on: February 02, 2018, 10:34:10 AM »
I'm pretty much in the same boat.  While I was watching it, it was fine.  Funny stuff, action stuff, drama stuff, Star Wars stuff.

I try to avoid spoilers and pretty much anything else about a movie until after I've watched it, then afterwards, I like reading what others have to say.  I often get more out of the original experience, because people point of stuff I'd missed and other cool stuff I didn't even realize.  In a sense, I get more out of the movie because I can appreciate more of what it did.

In this case, however, there was a lot more "So that's it?  We never find out anything about Snoke?  Rey's parents were nobodies?  Luke and Leia's final scene together didn't actually happen?" and so on.

So I did it to myself, because I was okay with the movie until I realized all the stuff it didn't have and didn't explain or follow-up on from The Force Awakens.  After I watched The Force Awakens, I was expecting all that stuff, but I guess I'd forgotten all that.  A lot of movies are like that; plenty of fun to watch, but if you think too much about it later, you'll realize that there are holes.