Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi  (Read 28299 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #910 on: October 23, 2018, 09:09:29 AM »
Finally saw Solo.  I went in with low expectations, and it far exceeded them.  I actually thought it was really good.  Really, the only ding is that it did feel a bit contrived at times that virtually everything revealed about Han's past was developed in this relatively narrow span of time and this one mission.  But then again, it's not like we need a ton of expansion on Solo's back story in other films, so it was fine here.  Nice addition to the SW universe.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #911 on: October 23, 2018, 09:13:53 AM »
Finally saw Solo.  I went in with low expectations, and it far exceeded them.  I actually thought it was really good.  Really, the only ding is that it did feel a bit contrived at times that virtually everything revealed about Han's past was developed in this relatively narrow span of time and this one mission.  But then again, it's not like we need a ton of expansion on Solo's back story in other films, so it was fine here.  Nice addition to the SW universe.

Glad you liked it. I think it got a really bad rap. Good film.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #912 on: October 23, 2018, 02:46:07 PM »
I thought it was better than expected, since people seemed to shit on it, but I also didn't think it was great.  A solid movie, just nothing spectacular.  Feels like since it's a star wars movie, it will get a lot more criticism if it's not great.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #913 on: October 23, 2018, 02:51:00 PM »
I thought it was better than expected, since people seemed to shit on it, but I also didn't think it was great.  A solid movie, just nothing spectacular.  Feels like since it's a star wars movie, it will get a lot more criticism if it's not great.

It is at least better than ep. I and ep. II.  Not sure where I would ultimately rank it (or that there is any point in ranking it).  It was a fun story.  It was well put-together.  It felt like Star Wars.  That's good enough for me.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #914 on: October 23, 2018, 03:58:54 PM »
I thought it was fine. It's a shame it flopped so badly from all the bad press and Star Wars fatigue.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #915 on: October 25, 2018, 02:31:01 PM »
Yea, it suffered by being a star wars film IMO.  The fatigue plus high expectations, not that it's actually based in the SW universe.  Movie wasn't bad at all and not deserving of the shitstorm it got.  I don't think being better than Episodes 1 or 2 is saying much though, but I'd agree based on my one viewing of the movie.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #916 on: October 25, 2018, 02:51:53 PM »
I still haven't bought Solo on blu ray, but as I reflect back, it was a fun Star Wars adventure.

It was super predictable, and they were riffing all the greatest hits from Han's backstory, but they managed to make a fun SW romp from all those predictable elements. The cast was good, particularly Glover as Lando and they nailed the camaraderie between Lando and Han. As well as Han and Chewie.

However, that Imperial recruitment officer giving Han he's last name was just dumb. :lol

Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #917 on: October 25, 2018, 04:48:11 PM »
Yeah, that scene was supposed to riff off of the scene where young Vito Andolini comes to America and is given the name Corleone because he's from the village of Corleone in Sicily and the agent at Ellis Island was an idiot.  I mean, that's what it seemed to me right off the bat, and later I read that it was intentional, but that just confirmed that it wasn't really well done.

But Lucas came up with the name Solo because it fit the character, no other reason.  So they had some fun with it.  I guess I don't blame them for that; it was the execution that was awkward.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #918 on: December 08, 2018, 06:12:19 AM »
A Star Wars page on FB just posted a short video of Palpatine with the question "When did you realize that Palpatine was a Sith lord?", to which I replied "in the moment when  the actor that portrayed the Emperor was cast as Palpatine"  :biggrin:

More seriously, for those who were fan back then and were anticipating The Phantom Menace - how much this detail was talked about? Ian McDiarmid, one of the stars of the original trilogy (well, the last movie actually) is brought back to play a senator when you already know the republic won't be there by the time the original trilogy unfolds? that was more than a dead giveaway, do you remember if it was just glossed over, or if every old fan started to watch The Phantom Menace knowing fully and completely that they were following the future Emperor?

I ask because if it was anybody else, there could have been a legitimate mystery to it... sure, by the time Attack of the Clones happens it's quite clear that Palpatine is, at the very least, up to something, but a new fan could have not made the realization by The Phantom Menace alone.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #919 on: December 08, 2018, 06:24:41 AM »
I thought everyone knew who he was.

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #920 on: December 08, 2018, 06:28:00 AM »
I was around 11 at the time of the Phantom menace and didn't have internet, so I didn't even know who Ian McDiarmid was. I didn't know he was the actor that played the emperor in Jedi and I definitely didn't know he was being cast as a senator in Episode 1.

In general, I didn't have a clue what was going on in the movie the first time I watched it. I went to go see it with my best friend and his family and at the end of the movie, I remember my friend's dad leaning over when Palpatine says "We'll be watching your career with great interest" and he was like "get it, since he's the emperor"





Now if at the time I was as engaged with the internet as I am now, then I definitely would have known.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #921 on: December 08, 2018, 07:48:05 AM »
The Internet wasn't the spoiler back in '97... his first scene (McDiarmid as Palpatine), only a moron wouldn't know that Senator Palpatine becomes the Emperor.  I'm trying to remember if ROTJ ever refers to him as Emperor Palpatine ??  Off the top of my head, I don't think so.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #922 on: December 08, 2018, 08:05:57 AM »
I don't think he was ever referred to as Palpatine in the OT, but I know I knew him by that name prior to the prequels. Can't remember from where, probably books.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #923 on: December 08, 2018, 10:35:16 AM »
Yeah, it wasn't a thing at all.  Everybody knew.  I can't remember whether we knew his name was Palpatine from the toys, the comics, and/or the EU.  But we all knew.  It wasn't even discussed as a thing when TPM came out. 

That said, throughout the first two films, I thought the one thing Lucas did handle pretty well was the political intrigue of Palpatine manipulating things to consolidate power for himself.  I remember thinking to myself that it seemed to be done pretty well for those who maybe were new to Star Wars and hadn't seen the OT. 
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #924 on: December 08, 2018, 10:44:54 AM »
Palpatine/Ian McDairmid is definitely one of, if not the bright shining spots of Eps 1-3. His arc was well-constructed, though that whole trade embargo story line was weak.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #925 on: December 08, 2018, 10:54:08 AM »
If you step back and ignore some of the specific details, the entire story arc for the entire thing was generally very good, IMO.  It's just that some of the specifics and/or the execution went really off the rails.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #926 on: December 08, 2018, 11:20:02 AM »
If you step back and ignore some of the specific details, the entire story arc for the entire thing was generally very good, IMO.  It's just that some of the specifics and/or the execution went really off the rails.

That too, though I maintain that having a trade embargo on Naboo as being the catalyst for the creation of the Galactic Empire, and being the crux of the whole first movie, is rather..... dunno, can't find the right word for it.

I think the tension and urgency was lacking. In Ep4, within the first 5 minutes, we see soldiers board and mow down the crew of a ship, stun and capture a youthful rebel who stole plans from them, and a massive, creepy dude choke to death someone who won't give him the answers he wants. You know right off the bat the stakes are high. EP1 just never felt that way with a couple Jedi trying to resolve a trade dispute, despite all the action that takes place toward the start of the film.

Later in Ep4, creepy British military types are sitting around talking about blowing up whole planets, and then the head creepy dude does it just to prove a point in front of a girl after torturing her for information didn't work. Millions of Alderaanians are killed in an instant, and though we've never even seen teh planet, it resonates with us. As Ep1 progresses, do we ever feel that connected to the plight of Naboo and the Gungans?
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #927 on: December 08, 2018, 11:28:06 AM »
A good point, though I am unsure how else to do it (for the most part).

When Episode 4 starts, it's already in the middle of a war between the Empire and the Rebellion. The Empire is ruthless.

In Episode 1, it's a peaceful senate instead. They can't start off being ruthless and war crazy. Palpatine's entire plan was built on subtle intrusion. Where he was given all the power without having to take a thing.

I agree that a blockade and trade negotiations is...lame. They could have gone another route to achieve the same thing.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #928 on: December 08, 2018, 12:50:24 PM »
That said, throughout the first two films, I thought the one thing Lucas did handle pretty well was the political intrigue of Palpatine manipulating things to consolidate power for himself.  I remember thinking to myself that it seemed to be done pretty well for those who maybe were new to Star Wars and hadn't seen the OT.

I agree, I think that the shining point of the prequel trilogy was Palpatine's story, and of course Ian McDiarmid's performance. Best "wolf in sheep's clothing" on screen probably. As it was said later, he was basically handled willingly all the power and all he had to do was just to hold on to it.

When Yoda faces him in his office, it's eerily brilliant his savage satisfaction in taunting him, amidst his laughing, saying "I have waited a loooong time for this moment, my little green friend.... at last, the Jedi are no more".
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #929 on: December 08, 2018, 01:21:59 PM »
When Episode 4 starts, it's already in the middle of a war between the Empire and the Rebellion. The Empire is ruthless.

Lucas has discussed how in writing Ep4, he understood that while all movies have to start somewhere, they don't have to start "at the beginning." He knew he didn't need to show how we got to the Imperial Cruiser chasing the Tantive IV. If it was written well enough, which is was, audiences would catch on quickly enough.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #930 on: December 08, 2018, 01:30:59 PM »
When Episode 4 starts, it's already in the middle of a war between the Empire and the Rebellion. The Empire is ruthless.

Lucas has discussed how in writing Ep4, he understood that while all movies have to start somewhere, they don't have to start "at the beginning." He knew he didn't need to show how we got to the Imperial Cruiser chasing the Tantive IV. If it was written well enough, which is was, audiences would catch on quickly enough.

Totally. But they were also just finally ending the senate in that movie. So assuming the prequels were in the same time frame that they were, there couldn't have been the same war.

However, they could have already been in the beginning of the clone wars or whatever. The whole set up to that was pretty lazy and meh, so that might have been an improvement.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #931 on: December 09, 2018, 09:19:17 AM »
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #932 on: December 10, 2018, 10:50:11 AM »
A Star Wars page on FB just posted a short video of Palpatine with the question "When did you realize that Palpatine was a Sith lord?", to which I replied "in the moment when  the actor that portrayed the Emperor was cast as Palpatine"  :biggrin:

More seriously, for those who were fan back then and were anticipating The Phantom Menace - how much this detail was talked about? Ian McDiarmid, one of the stars of the original trilogy (well, the last movie actually) is brought back to play a senator when you already know the republic won't be there by the time the original trilogy unfolds? that was more than a dead giveaway, do you remember if it was just glossed over, or if every old fan started to watch The Phantom Menace knowing fully and completely that they were following the future Emperor?

Keep in mind that Eps. IV-VI were released in the pre-internet era.  For me, the notion internet chat rooms didn't exist until mid-1993, and such things were ridiculously primitive at that time.  The first three movies had been released on VHS in the mid-80s, but home video versions weren't really common until the early/mid-90s.  They became more common in the following years leading up to the release of TPM in 1999.  I was a few months shy of 10 years old when Star Wars came out.  I saw it twice in the theaters and waited with great anticipation for Empire and RotJ.  I was in my 30s by the time the prequels were released and had read maybe a dozen of the Star Wars novels (e.g., the Thrawn trilogy).  The announcement of the prequels was HUGE news.

If, in 1999, I knew in who Ian McDiarmid was or who played the Emperor in RotJ, I don't remember now.  I don't even recall if, prior to the prequels, I was aware that the Emperor's name was "Palpatine (I can't remember if the Emperor was credited as "Emperor Palpatine" or just "the Emperor" in the pre-TPM home video releases).  I remember precisely zero "talk" about this (either on or off the internet) leading up to the release of TPM.  After seeing TPM in the theater, I think it was pretty well assumed Palpatine would become the Emperor.

That being said, your logic obviously makes sense from a retrospective point of view.  The only thing that really threw me off was the existence of the "Dath Sidious" character.  I recall thinking that there was obviously a connection between Senator Palpatine and the Emperor, but I recall not quite knowing what Sidious's role was and don't recall knowing with certainty that any or all three were really the same.
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Offline The Trooper

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #933 on: December 10, 2018, 10:56:22 AM »


If my 12 year old sons saw your post brother, they would find you and subject you to Jar Jar torture

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #934 on: December 10, 2018, 11:03:27 AM »
I just did a bit of quick research that stated that the name Palpatine was used in the 1977 novelization for A New Hope (which I had and read as a kid) and for ROTJ, and that he was referred to by that name in the end credits for ROTJ.  I suspect that that is how I knew, because I remember knowing it as a kid.  Pretty sure it was also used in the Dark Horse comics series where Luke briefly joined the dark side to try to infiltrate the empire and it was revealed that Palpatine cloned himself.  So, yeah, I DEFINITELY knew long before The Phantom Menace.
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Offline The Trooper

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #935 on: December 10, 2018, 11:12:11 AM »
I do not exactly remember, but my old fart brain agrees with Bosk. It was somewhere along those things.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #936 on: December 10, 2018, 11:50:14 AM »
I had a vague recollection that maybe it might have also been the toys.  But my quick Google research seems to indicate that the action figure cards simply said "The Emperor." 
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #937 on: December 10, 2018, 11:58:38 AM »
A Star Wars page on FB just posted a short video of Palpatine with the question "When did you realize that Palpatine was a Sith lord?", to which I replied "in the moment when  the actor that portrayed the Emperor was cast as Palpatine"  :biggrin:

More seriously, for those who were fan back then and were anticipating The Phantom Menace - how much this detail was talked about? Ian McDiarmid, one of the stars of the original trilogy (well, the last movie actually) is brought back to play a senator when you already know the republic won't be there by the time the original trilogy unfolds? that was more than a dead giveaway, do you remember if it was just glossed over, or if every old fan started to watch The Phantom Menace knowing fully and completely that they were following the future Emperor?

Keep in mind that Eps. IV-VI were released in the pre-internet era.  For me, the notion internet chat rooms didn't exist until mid-1993, and such things were ridiculously primitive at that time.  The first three movies had been released on VHS in the mid-80s, but home video versions weren't really common until the early/mid-90s.  They became more common in the following years leading up to the release of TPM in 1999.  I was a few months shy of 10 years old when Star Wars came out.  I saw it twice in the theaters and waited with great anticipation for Empire and RotJ.  I was in my 30s by the time the prequels were released and had read maybe a dozen of the Star Wars novels (e.g., the Thrawn trilogy).  The announcement of the prequels was HUGE news.

If, in 1999, I knew in who Ian McDiarmid was or who played the Emperor in RotJ, I don't remember now.  I don't even recall if, prior to the prequels, I was aware that the Emperor's name was "Palpatine (I can't remember if the Emperor was credited as "Emperor Palpatine" or just "the Emperor" in the pre-TPM home video releases).  I remember precisely zero "talk" about this (either on or off the internet) leading up to the release of TPM.  After seeing TPM in the theater, I think it was pretty well assumed Palpatine would become the Emperor.

That being said, your logic obviously makes sense from a retrospective point of view.  The only thing that really threw me off was the existence of the "Dath Sidious" character.  I recall thinking that there was obviously a connection between Senator Palpatine and the Emperor, but I recall not quite knowing what Sidious's role was and don't recall knowing with certainty that any or all three were really the same.

That sums up pretty well I guess, thanks!

And now, to kill off the mystique of such an awesome character: "palpatine", in italian, is the plural form for when, say, you grope a woman's butt. Seriously  :biggrin:
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #938 on: December 10, 2018, 12:08:10 PM »
A Star Wars page on FB just posted a short video of Palpatine with the question "When did you realize that Palpatine was a Sith lord?", to which I replied "in the moment when  the actor that portrayed the Emperor was cast as Palpatine"  :biggrin:

More seriously, for those who were fan back then and were anticipating The Phantom Menace - how much this detail was talked about? Ian McDiarmid, one of the stars of the original trilogy (well, the last movie actually) is brought back to play a senator when you already know the republic won't be there by the time the original trilogy unfolds? that was more than a dead giveaway, do you remember if it was just glossed over, or if every old fan started to watch The Phantom Menace knowing fully and completely that they were following the future Emperor?

Keep in mind that Eps. IV-VI were released in the pre-internet era.  For me, the notion internet chat rooms didn't exist until mid-1993, and such things were ridiculously primitive at that time.  The first three movies had been released on VHS in the mid-80s, but home video versions weren't really common until the early/mid-90s.  They became more common in the following years leading up to the release of TPM in 1999.  I was a few months shy of 10 years old when Star Wars came out.  I saw it twice in the theaters and waited with great anticipation for Empire and RotJ.  I was in my 30s by the time the prequels were released and had read maybe a dozen of the Star Wars novels (e.g., the Thrawn trilogy).  The announcement of the prequels was HUGE news.

If, in 1999, I knew in who Ian McDiarmid was or who played the Emperor in RotJ, I don't remember now.  I don't even recall if, prior to the prequels, I was aware that the Emperor's name was "Palpatine (I can't remember if the Emperor was credited as "Emperor Palpatine" or just "the Emperor" in the pre-TPM home video releases).  I remember precisely zero "talk" about this (either on or off the internet) leading up to the release of TPM.  After seeing TPM in the theater, I think it was pretty well assumed Palpatine would become the Emperor.

That being said, your logic obviously makes sense from a retrospective point of view.  The only thing that really threw me off was the existence of the "Dath Sidious" character.  I recall thinking that there was obviously a connection between Senator Palpatine and the Emperor, but I recall not quite knowing what Sidious's role was and don't recall knowing with certainty that any or all three were really the same.

That sums up pretty well I guess, thanks!

And now, to kill off the mystique of such an awesome character: "palpatine", in italian, is the plural form for when, say, you grope a woman's butt. Seriously  :biggrin:

I would argue that only adds to the awesomeness!   :lol
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #939 on: December 10, 2018, 12:17:39 PM »
Yeah, I don't picture the #metoo movement gaining too much traction in the empire.  A few force chokes, and that movement is over before it began.
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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #940 on: December 10, 2018, 12:17:52 PM »


If my 12 year old sons saw your post brother, they would find you and subject you to Jar Jar torture
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Offline The Trooper

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #941 on: December 10, 2018, 02:05:00 PM »
Now I am going to have Nightmares :lol

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Offline The Trooper

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #944 on: December 12, 2018, 08:42:40 AM »
Awesome :hefdaddy