Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi  (Read 26846 times)

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2017, 08:43:02 AM »
Saw it last night and I liked the movie. I'd have liked to seen a bit less of the casino excursion and more of Luke/Rey 'training' or whatever it was she was doing with him. I don't think you can call it outright training.....and they cleverly covered that hole in her abilities by having Yoda tell Luke there was nothing in the books in the temple that wasn't already in Rey.

The Leah space force deal was just dumb though. Seriously, the film would be that much better had that scene never happened...and I'm confused as to how that even made it past the 'I have an idea' part of brainstorming a sequence. It'd have been better had they blown the bridge up and she'd have just been severely injured that way. Just a silly story point overall.

I like the fact they didn't try to tie Rey to Obi Wan or Luke or anyone we know. It'd have been a tough story to tell and they'd have tied their hands with any future shoot off stories had it been someone 'close' to the main characters or original cast. It didn't bother me that Rey is a random person chosen by the Force yet I have a feeling Kylo was lying to her to get her to side with him and that her parentage will probably be more significant than they let on.

I was however bummed we didn't get any answer as to who Snoke was or how he was able to have been around and seen so much and be so powerful. I loved the death scene of his and fight....it was awesome and you could feel it coming....but to not have gotten a clue as to his origin was a bummer. Maybe they'll address it in the next film.

I would have liked to have seen Luke in a realistic battle and show off some major Jedi skills but I guess the skill he demonstrated was the ultimate top tier skill a Jedi can learn. Having him choose to face down Ren in that fashion to prove a point to him and then choose to transcend his physical body and join the ranks of Yoda and Obi Wan seemed fitting. Just wish they'd have spent that half hour of the casino side show on Luke rather than some horses and stable boys if that was the case. I felt like he wasn't given a 'proper' send off.

Anyone else notice that the scene in the Falcon at the end when Finn opened a drawer that all the old Jedi manuals and books were stacked in it? They were all in there so apparently Rey must have taken them without Luke knowing.

Is it possible that Luke knew Rey would have to free the resistance by lifting all the rocks when he told her that knowing the Force is more than lifting Rocks? I think that was intentional and could have shown Luke had forseen it.

Both Hux and Ren botched their chances at crushing the Rebels and ending it all due to their arrogance. Hux by ignoring the turning ship and focusing on the escape pods and Ren by focusing solely on Luke.

I guess the Red Guards were the Knights of Ren....the student Ren had enlisted from Luke's temple? If so, then Ren and Rey have wiped them out.

I just assumed the bombs were magnetized and was why they dropped instead of floating off.

I doubt that's the last you'll see of Benicio Del Torro's character. He's like a Choatic Nuetral Han Solo.


All in all I'd say 7/10 for me. I'm gonna see it again sunday with the kiddos, that'll allow me to take a closer listen and look at some sections. But, I wasn't floored by the movie but certainly wasn't disappointed. Solid SW movie in my eyes and leagues better than any of the prequels.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2017, 10:34:10 AM »
I agree completely on that last part. I wanted an ending that'd leave me burning in suspense for two years, without any hole for the resistance. Maybe somewhere around where the cannon was blowing through the door, a truly hopeless scenario.
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Offline faizoff

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2017, 11:04:50 AM »
Saw it last night as well and man, when everyone said it was really different, they were right. The more I think of this movie the more I love it and I think will be one of the best in the series for me. I think I like it more than Force Awakens already. I'd say it's a 9/10 right now.

Going to see it again for sure. The only rant I have right now is against the 3D projectionist who didn't adjust the brightness, things were so dark in some scenes that I couldn't see the faces clearly. I'm never seeing any more movies in 3D again and my friend apparently bought it by mistake thinking they were all regular shows.
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Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2017, 11:05:08 AM »
Only thing I didn't really like was Leia Supermanning through space. Fucking. Dumb. I'm Carrie Poppins, y'all!
Everything else I could deal with.

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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2017, 12:22:07 PM »
I think this movie felt more like Star Wars movie than anything since Empire. It checked all of the boxes for me. And while it wasn't a cliffhanger like the end of TFA, I really have no idea what the final film is going to be. My biggest disappointment is not knowing who the hell Snoke is. I really hope that is explained.

Offline Implode

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2017, 12:49:52 PM »
Thought the movie as a bloated mess with far too much unnecessary wank and drawn out pointless plot points.

That said, there were still amazing things that happened in the movie. If it we're trimmed down to half the length, I'm sure it could've been as strong as VII. For now I give it like 5/10.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2017, 01:48:29 PM »
Leia flying through space could have been little less cheesy, but i'm fine with it.

I'm predicting that the next movie takes place many years after The Last Jedi. Leia has died of old age. Rey has to jumpstart the new jedi order, she did steal the old jedi books after all. And everyone has to band together to defeat the Emperor Ben, and his new First Order/Empire.

I also have a sneaking feeling that Snoke is not done somehow. Maybe he comes back as a evil force ghost, or something...

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2017, 03:09:17 PM »
@ people saying the ending was too satisfying

Yeah, I'll honestly agree with this. I kept thinking they were going to leave a cliffhanger where Kylo & Ren were face to face, but then again that would've left everyone confused about how he survive everything that was fired at him so idk. Like I said, I loved the movie, but there was some points where it felt like it could've ended but kept going anyway.

Offline Implode

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2017, 03:51:37 PM »
It really felt like they didn't know how to end the movie.

Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2017, 05:27:32 PM »
That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it.

I mean, unless I remember it wrong, the only thing the kid did was hold up a broom. Last I checked, you don't need the force to do that  :lol

No, as he walked out he held his hand out and the broom came to him, he force grabbed it.

About Rey's lineage, although there is a possibility that Kylo was right that her parents were nobodies, there's a greater chance he was fucking with her. He wanted her to join him, what better way than to make her feel like he was the only one there for her.

Only thing I didn't really like was Leia Supermanning through space. Fucking. Dumb. I'm Carrie Poppins, y'all!

Totally this. I just felt there was absolutely zero need for this scene to happen!


Offline jammindude

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2017, 05:50:38 PM »
 I canít believe any of you are buying into Kylo Renís version of Raiís parentage. To me, it IMMEDIATELY seemed like a ploy. The first thing any abuser will do to gain control is to destroy  your entire history to make you think that they are the only things in your life.  He was trying to beat her down emotionally so that she would feel worthless without him.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2017, 06:05:29 PM »
It really felt like they didn't know how to end the movie.

Yeah, it almost seemed like they didn't want to leave any loose ends,yet the best part of epV was that big ass loose end of Vader /father.

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Offline Accelerando

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2017, 11:07:26 PM »
I canít believe any of you are buying into Kylo Renís version of Raiís parentage. To me, it IMMEDIATELY seemed like a ploy. The first thing any abuser will do to gain control is to destroy  your entire history to make you think that they are the only things in your life.  He was trying to beat her down emotionally so that she would feel worthless without him.

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Offline Zantera

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2017, 02:07:07 AM »
Do we honestly NEED for Rey to be a Skywalker or Kenobi though? I thought what we got on her parents was satisfying in its own right. Sure, I won't lie, if it was revealed that she was a Kenobi I probably would have gone crazy and loved that too, but I don't mind her coming from just a normal lineage.

Overall I thought TLJ was really great, some minor issues (like that casino subplot) but overall really good. Not sure if I liked it as much as TFA, but still a really great movie.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2017, 02:26:06 AM »
Do we honestly NEED for Rey to be a Skywalker or Kenobi though? I thought what we got on her parents was satisfying in its own right. Sure, I won't lie, if it was revealed that she was a Kenobi I probably would have gone crazy and loved that too, but I don't mind her coming from just a normal lineage.

I'm not keen on her being related to Skywalker/Kenobi either, but with the buildup and hype surrounding her past, as well as how insanely quick she has taken to using the Force and being drawn to the saber etc, the current explanation of being the daughter of some random deadbeats isn't satisfying imo.
I'd like there to be a better backstory revealed in the next movie, hopefully something that isn't so obvious as long lost second cousin of Obi-wan though.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2017, 05:44:35 AM »
What an odd film. I really enjoyed watching it, but I also left the theater thoroughly baffled by what I saw. Need to see again. Couldnít rate right now if I tried.
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Offline Zantera

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2017, 06:44:16 AM »
The movie took some risks and deserves a lot of praise for that. There were issues but I feel like overall it worked pretty well. A lot of criticisms I see are rooted in what people expected VS what they got, and to me it's always a poor excuse to be mad at something because it wasn't what you thought in your head going into it. A good example was Luke. There was plenty of people who probably expected this Vader-hallway scene of Luke completely dominating 20-30 first order guys and coming in to rescue Rey against Ren/Snoke, instead we got a scene reminiscent of Obi-Wan vs Vader in a New Hope where the duel isn't about winning or losing but rather the sacrifice means something. Some people will be mad because Luke is gone and won't be there again to have that "badass moment", but in the context of the film I thought his exit worked and he filled the role that the movie needed him to fill.

There's a lot of things you can dissect and point out, for example what happened with C3PO's red arm? And I thought it was weird how TLJ didn't seem to care much about certain things set up as big mysteries in TFA (Rey's parents, the origin/identity of Snoke, the other Knights of Ren) and some were brushed over, but I also feel like Episode 9 might help to explain things. Hard to get the full picture without the final piece. Leia floating through space like Superman didn't work for me and I thought the whole Casino subplot could have been cut out, but other than that there were some excellent scenes in here, and overall the movie was really great.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2017, 07:12:09 AM »
I see a lot of people defending the criticism of it just not being what people expected, but I haven't actually personally seen many criticize it for that at all.

The problem for me was more with how they told that story rather than the story they chose, and a lot of the details just not being consistent with what is established, and not capitalizing on what TFA set up, but instead undoing it. And the humour was added to the film in a way that wasn't natural, and hurt so many important moments that should have been serious. It took me out of the film. When a film makes me groan out loud within the first ten minutes, it's a bad sign.

I think the overall plot was just fine, and there were a lot of good scenes, but I don't think they knew how to tell this story most effectively and got some details very wrong for the bigger picture imo. Maybe it was too many cooks in the kitchen trying to appeal to the mass audience, or maybe it didn't quite fit Rian Johnson. TFA and Rogue One were both very enjoyable films for me, but this movie makes me concerned for the franchise going forward, and I'm not even a SW fanatic.
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Offline YtseJam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2017, 08:22:17 AM »
I agree with so much of what I read in this thread but a couple of things that kind of irked me:

The CGI - Snoke was very cheesy looking. A main character should be more realistic, the CGI made him a joke. All of the flying around looked corny too. Princess Leia flying through space like the wicked witch was silly. Yoda looked cheap too. I felt like the CGI was better in the force awakens.

You can tell the Disney execs had their hands in this movie far too much.

In general the movie could have cut the fat and been a deeper and darker film if it had focused more on the characters.

One last thing, the ending was unnecessary even if they are using it as a setup for future story lines, it felt out of place and ruined the mood. It was good but not great.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2017, 08:25:13 AM »
One last thing, the ending was unnecessary even if they are using it as a setup for future story lines, it felt out of place and ruined the mood. It was good but not great.

I didn't like that either. It felt kinda tacked on to end it on a more positive note perhaps. And to place it at such a point in the film, it better be really important, but it didn't feel like it was. Maybe they'll bring it back at some point, but I don't feel like it's meant to have any bearing on IX.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2017, 08:34:07 AM »
Saw it yesterday and I liked it. It did not live up to my wildest hopes and dreams which has left me feeling a little disappointed, but it was extremely unlikely to do that. It had me on the edge of my seal for the last third of the movie or so, which was good. I plan on seeing it again in the next couple weeks.

The issues I had while watching it:
The caretakers and the milking seal things were completely unnecessary.
Leia should have died in space or never gotten sucked out in the first place, that super-Leia thing was stupid.
The scene with Maz was stupid and unnecessary.
The casino part dragged a bit and really could have been left out altogether.
I wish they would have used Phasma better.

Issues I've thought of since:
I really hope that both Snoke's and Rey's back stories don't get swept under the rug. I'm ok with one, but not both. You can't set something up like that in the first movie and then just brush it off as if it doesn't matter. I suspect Kylo wasn't being truthful with Rey.
Maybe it was tacky given Carrie Fisher's death to have Leia die, but I wish they would have had Leia do the suicide run instead of that new admiral. Then let her take Leia's place in Ep. 9.

Thoughts on Ep. 9:
I'm guessing they'll have several years in between 8 and 9 in order for the Resistance to grow again. They set up a younger generation of rebels, so they need to grow up to contribute.
I'm guessing Leia will have died off-screen during the in between time, but I'll be interested to see how they address it.
Luke will obviously come back as a force ghost to complete Rey's training.
I think one of two things will happen: Ben Solo is redeemed and comes to the light side or Rey somehow has Skywalker blood. I think Disney will continue on past Ep 9 and there needs to be a Skywalker in order to do that. They have stated explicitly that the main Saga is about the Skywalkers.
I'll be annoyed if they don't explain how Maz got Luke's lightsaber. They set that up and then had a dumb cameo basically of Maz in 8 so we don't forget about her.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2017, 08:48:05 AM »
Maybe it was tacky given Carrie Fisher's death to have Leia die, but I wish they would have had Leia do the suicide run instead of that new admiral. Then let her take Leia's place in Ep. 9.

I think it came down to a couple of reasons why they didn't go that route. First of all, having both Luke and Leia go in the same film might have been too bold a move. And secondly, they may have needed CGI to make such a change, and that might have seemed tacky with Carrie Fisher's death being relatively recent. I think it was a better tribute to her to leave her part in the movie intact, and plan it from day 1 in IX instead. I think they made the better choice here, although I wish they could have removed the being sucked out into space thing afterwards, because it felt a little cheap in hindsight.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2017, 09:22:34 AM »
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2017, 09:35:26 AM »
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.

I agree it's part of who he is, and that he would try that in that situation, but on the other hand, I think the way Hux reacted to it was poor and damaged his character at an important point in the film, and I don't think it was something they should have opened with. Just imo.
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Offline Logain Ablar

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2017, 09:38:33 AM »
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.

That ďwho talks first?Ē bit bothered me in TFA as well, but here it was dialled up to 11 in that first scene. It just smacked of Buffy type humour rather than what weíre used to in SW. Iíve seen it described as ďhashtag humourĒ, which is probably a good description.

Iím probably too old to appreciate it.  :lol

Offline Implode

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2017, 09:42:12 AM »
In TFA the same gag worked much better because Kylo was still intimidating in that scene. He still had all the power. He kept his composure and ignored him. Poe's snark was his way of rebelling and giving him the middle finger.

In TLJ Hux was made out to be a weenie buffoon because of that. So it immediately took away all the tension and drama for me. He became like a silly person you couldn't take seriously.

So agreed. The joke fell flat for me, not because of Poe's delivery but because of Hux's response. It actually would've worked better as a completely serious scene imo.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2017, 10:09:39 AM »
Hux always came across as a whiny little bitch to me anyway.  Even in TFA, he just reminded me of Rowan Atkinson's Black Adder character.   Or Rimmer from Red Dwarf.  Just a wimpy weasel who happened to get a promotion.   I thought him being bamboozled was perfect for his character, and Kylo making him his bitch at the end was particularly satisfying. 
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2017, 10:15:32 AM »
I thought that opening scene worked well. It maybe drug on a hair too long, but I think it fit well with Poe's character.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2017, 10:15:52 AM »
Hux always came across as a whiny little bitch to me anyway.  Even in TFA, he just reminded me of Rowan Atkinson's Black Adder character.   Or Rimmer from Red Dwarf.  Just a wimpy weasel who happened to get a promotion.   I thought him being bamboozled was perfect for his character, and Kylo making him his bitch at the end was particularly satisfying. 

That would be fine if he wasn't the leader pursuing our main heroes and a driving force behind the entire film. I think it diminished the seriousness of the situation.
I do agree it was fine from Poe's perspective though.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2017, 10:50:58 AM »
Yeah Hux is portrayed as a whiney child and so is Kylo....

So now our main villains are children? :/

Offline ronnibran

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2017, 11:01:09 AM »
So Monday at work we were going to have some huge discussion about our theories on the movie and where we think the main story is headed.  Going to be a short discussion, TLJ didn't really leave any exciting things to think about. 

But that aside, I think once I see it again I'll warm up to it a bit.  Maybe I was expecting it to be too much like The Force Awakens, which I thought was amazing.  And I think episode 9 now has kind of a blank canvass where they can take that in almost any direction.  Based on how much I liked TFA I'm kind of glad JJ Abrams is behind Ep 9.  Maybe they'll give the interesting back stories that TLJ was missing. 

My biggest complaint is that Snoke kind of was nobody, you never learned anything about him.  I was so intrigued when he started talking about how he wanted to make Kylo the next Vader and then that conversation ended immediately and never went anywhere.  And I don't think enough of the new movie was about Rey if she's supposed to be part of the main story.  TLJ had too much time invested in all of the side stories instead.  Again, this is still just my first impression, I may change my views after seeing it again.  On the bright side, we paid to see it in 3d and the movie theater screwed up and played regular so we got free passes when we left.  So I'll use that to see it again.

Offline Accelerando

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2017, 12:29:43 PM »
Anyone else sad that Chewie has been rendered down to a mere stagnant character without Han?  :-[

Offline jammindude

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2017, 12:40:25 PM »
In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, Iím reflecting back now and Iím not sure Iím happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into ďfailure being the best teacher...yada yada yadaĒ But I still canít picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

I can see why Mark had a problem with it.
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Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2017, 12:50:39 PM »
Anyone else sad that Chewie has been rendered down to a mere stagnant character without Han?  :-[

Seems to me that they are building up Rey and Chewie to be the new Millenium Falcon duo! I liked their banter in this movie, i hope it is expanded in the next one!

In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, Iím reflecting back now and Iím not sure Iím happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into ďfailure being the best teacher...yada yada yadaĒ But I still canít picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

I can see why Mark had a problem with it.

I think he didn't want to end up like Obi Wan, being responsible for Vader. Kinda sad that, in that moment he realizes that he has gone to far, but it is already too late. Wheels are in motion, and he is responsible for creating another Vader

Rian Johnson has some serious balls, doing some of the things he does with this movie.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2017, 02:09:23 PM »
In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, Iím reflecting back now and Iím not sure Iím happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into ďfailure being the best teacher...yada yada yadaĒ But I still canít picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

Well he did say when he explained that night to Rey that it was only a brief moment after he discovered just how far gone Ben was. I think it's fair to say that the fact he WAS his nephew was the only reason he hesitated and didn't kill him immediately.




I'm going to see it again tomorrow with the family, but the more I reflect on the movie the 'better' it sits with me. I still think the Leah space walk was utterly retarded and that excursion to find the code breaker wasn't needed....but other than that I'm pretty good with the rest of what went down.

I don't think the lineage theory that Ren told Rey was true....as has been mentioned it was a ploy by him to rope her in....AND I'm wondering whether or not Snoke stays dead. Meaning....his body was clearly mauled and wretched...dare I say pieced together and maybe even decaying.....who's to say he's really dead? Dude seemed to have next level powers by opening a bridge between Rey and Ren so perhaps it takes more than a slice from a light saber to beat the guy?

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