Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)  (Read 86311 times)

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Offline ErHaO

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So perhaps some controversial opinions here:

Saw six episodes of The Mandolorian and... I thought episodes 4-6 were pretty bad? First 3 were ace though. Oddly enough I also feel the titular character feels incompetent way too many times. Like really almost every battle he gets shot, hit or caught of guard, only to be saved by something convenient in his surrounding or just his great armor. Dunno, sometimes it annoyed me a bit. I get the approach of making the hero struggle before winning but I don't really buy this guy being such a great mercenary at all.

And I watched Solo and... really enjoyed it? Well paced, some cool setpieces, decent set of characters and actually better fanservice than the latest trilogy (because this is a film about fan favourites, rather than cramming the fan favourites in there for no real reason).

Online lordxizor

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The last couple episodes of the Mandalorian were great. Yeah the middle ones weren't spectacular.

I also really enjoyed Solo.

Offline gmillerdrake

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My only issue with the Mandalorian was the episode lengths. I think/wish they should have been/be at least an hour.
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Offline bosk1

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Solo was surprisingly good.  Not sure why it uncharacteristically dumbed things down by a magnitude of thousands during that brief moment where he got his last name.  But other than that brief moment of stupid, it was pretty good.
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I've said it here before on multiple occasions, but I'll say it again. I am bummed that Solo did as poorly at the box office as it did. It deserved to do better. I'm sad we won't see the sequels that I'm sure were being planned.

Offline Cool Chris

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I started watching The Mandalorian, without really knowing anything about it. I was surprised how short the episodes were. I kinda like it as I usually have small pockets of time where I can watch TV.
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Offline bosk1

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So, just finished Clone Wars. 

As a whole, this series is such a mess.  Sometimes, it is really good.  Other times, it is really bad.  But all in all, the good far outweighs the bad, and I enjoyed it.  And for the most part, seasons 6 and 7 were pretty good.  To push back a little bit on a couple of comments I have seen Gary make:

Season 7 is not "some of the best content in all of Star Wars."  Season 7 is kind of a microcosm of the entire show.  When it was good, it was really good.  Other times, it wasn't.  Or it just meandered.  And that's okay.  But what was cool is that season 7 tied up a LOT of different storylines in a pretty satisfying way.  And right at the end when it started to tie directly into events of Revenge of the Sith, it was probably the best content of the series

Ahsoka is not the best character.  ...or maybe she is, and that's just not saying a lot about the characters as a whole?  There were times when she was outright annoying, including in season 7.  But overall, she had a good story arc that ended on a pretty satisfying note. 

Some of my favorite arcs in the series were the stuff with Ventriss, Maul, and the late season 7 stuff.  Where I think the series missed opportunities though was with Anakin.  They definitely fleshed out the character more and planted more seeds of his turning.  But by the same token, given what they could have done with that, I think they missed a lot of opportunities. 

Anyhow, I give it a thumbs up overall.  Will probably check out rebels next, but not sure when.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Yeah.....I think you and I Bosk will just have to respectfully disagree about some things with TCW's. I agree as a whole the series is far from perfect and there are too many filler and dud episodes....but.....


Season 7 is not "some of the best content in all of Star Wars."  Season 7 is kind of a microcosm of the entire show.  When it was good, it was really good.  Other times, it wasn't.  Or it just meandered.  And that's okay.  But what was cool is that season 7 tied up a LOT of different storylines in a pretty satisfying way.  And right at the end when it started to tie directly into events of Revenge of the Sith, it was probably the best content of the series

Outside of the 'sisters' story arc with Ahsoka S7 was pretty solid and I'll stick by 'some of the best content SW has to offer'. From the Score to the characters was far more interesting to me than any of the prequels (outside of the last half of ROTS)  The last (4) episodes alone were better than the first two and a half prequel films. The only downside to them is that you pretty much have to watch the whole series to truly appreciate those last four episodes where with the prequels you can just watch the films (and be bored out of your mind most of the time)


Ahsoka is not the best character.  ...or maybe she is, and that's just not saying a lot about the characters as a whole?  There were times when she was outright annoying, including in season 7.  But overall, she had a good story arc that ended on a pretty satisfying note. 

I'll debate all day long over Ahsoka's character......Entirely more developed and overall just a 'better' character than Rey for sure.....not to mention more skilled and better force weilder than her.......and next to Anakin and Obi Wan she's one of the 'main' three character's of the show.....her and Anakin being 'tied' almost and Obi Wan a close second. There's simply no way of watching where she started to where she ended and not realizing what a strong Jedi and character she is. There's really no denying her skill, power and wisdom and that she's one of the top Jedi that we've seen. You can try to make arguments against it....you can say that her character didn't personally connect with you.....but the fact remains that would put folks with that opinion in the very small minority....and that's ok....It's just not true  :biggrin:


Some of my favorite arcs in the series were the stuff with Ventriss, Maul, and the late season 7 stuff.  Where I think the series missed opportunities though was with Anakin.  They definitely fleshed out the character more and planted more seeds of his turning.  But by the same token, given what they could have done with that, I think they missed a lot of opportunities. 


Ventriss is a pretty awesome character.....and learning more about her according to cannon is interesting as well. Maul will always be one of the top characters also. His 'look' and power make him a really fun character. Plus, he can be likable which is hard to do with an 'evil' character. Interesting tid bit about Maul according to Filoni when there was a debate about who really 'won' the dual between he and Ahsoka.......if you notice.....in every Light Saber battle he's in he is clearly the most gifted and talented saber duelist. But the reason he loses almost all those battles is because of his over confidence. His overconfidence defeats him every time.


Not sure what opportunities you think they missed with Anakin? Way more developed and deep than the prequel Anakin. We got to see many different sides of him....watch him get manipulated by Palpatine for a long period of time....actually get to see him 'be' the near invincible Jedi Knight and fighter pilot that was alluded to in the OT. Sure, maybe there could be things that could have been added but I don't think they 'missed' anything. Nothing went unexplained.....they added more depth and dimension to a character that was just a fly by in the prequels. I said it before and will stick to it.....Clone War Anakain IS Anakin.....the prequel character was just a place holder. 
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I finally got around to watching The Rise of Skywalker last night. I thought it was quite fun and despite the film being out for months already, I'm surprised to say that I didn't see ANY spoilers whatsoever (this is mostly due to me avoiding spoilers as well though). There were a couple of really good moment and some that were a bit strange, but all in all I enjoyed it :)
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Offline Zantera

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I finally got around to watching The Rise of Skywalker last night. I thought it was quite fun and despite the film being out for months already, I'm surprised to say that I didn't see ANY spoilers whatsoever (this is mostly due to me avoiding spoilers as well though). There were a couple of really good moment and some that were a bit strange, but all in all I enjoyed it :)

I feel like the buzz around that film disappeared really fast for a Star Wars movie. Compare it to Avengers End Game which was a big finale (though the universe will continue) which people were discussing for months, in comparison Rise of Skywalker seemed to be a weekend or two of people either going "yeah.. that was pretty bad" OR "i liked it!" but nothing super passionate in either the positive or negative way.

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I feel the worst part about the new trilogy is that the story really seems to not have been written beforehand. Apart from the main characters, the three films are so different from each other, that it almost feels as if they're not even part of the same story. New stuff gets introduced on the fly and some of it is frankly quite weird. That said, from an 'entertainment' perspective, the film did its job. I enjoyed it and I'm actually a bit sad that I didn't go watch it in the cinema, because I bet some scenes would have looked amazing on the big screen.
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Offline Zantera

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I feel the worst part about the new trilogy is that the story really seems to not have been written beforehand. Apart from the main characters, the three films are so different from each other, that it almost feels as if they're not even part of the same story. New stuff gets introduced on the fly and some of it is frankly quite weird. That said, from an 'entertainment' perspective, the film did its job. I enjoyed it and I'm actually a bit sad that I didn't go watch it in the cinema, because I bet some scenes would have looked amazing on the big screen.

That's because they weren't really.. Rian Johnson was asked about The Last Jedi and if they had a "master plan" and he basically said no, he could do what he wanted. But then TLJ is a mixed bag reception-wise and they go back on a lot of decisions made in that film when JJ comes back for the final movie and he wants things his way. There's no way Palpatine returning was even on the table until Rian killed off Snoke randomly in TLJ and for RoS they all went "oh.. now what?". I did not like TLJ and for me, Rian Johnson ruined this trilogy (RoS wasn't that good but I think it was too late to save it anyways) but I would rather have taken a whole trilogy by the same director to at least get a complete vision. Or at the very least have a George Lucas-type who planned things out for 3 movies even if they are directed by different people. :p

Offline gmillerdrake

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I feel the worst part about the new trilogy is that the story really seems to not have been written beforehand. Apart from the main characters, the three films are so different from each other, that it almost feels as if they're not even part of the same story. New stuff gets introduced on the fly and some of it is frankly quite weird. That said, from an 'entertainment' perspective, the film did its job. I enjoyed it and I'm actually a bit sad that I didn't go watch it in the cinema, because I bet some scenes would have looked amazing on the big screen.

That's because they weren't really.. Rian Johnson was asked about The Last Jedi and if they had a "master plan" and he basically said no, he could do what he wanted. But then TLJ is a mixed bag reception-wise and they go back on a lot of decisions made in that film when JJ comes back for the final movie and he wants things his way. There's no way Palpatine returning was even on the table until Rian killed off Snoke randomly in TLJ and for RoS they all went "oh.. now what?". I did not like TLJ and for me, Rian Johnson ruined this trilogy (RoS wasn't that good but I think it was too late to save it anyways) but I would rather have taken a whole trilogy by the same director to at least get a complete vision. Or at the very least have a George Lucas-type who planned things out for 3 movies even if they are directed by different people. :p

Yeah. There was zero excuse not to have that trilogy mapped out before they started filming. Maybe not down to each actors dialogue but the milestones and major plot points in each film should have been planned out. They weren't......and we got what we got. I like the fact that Disney has realized this blunder and is making sure it won't happen again.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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I agree 100% that the new trilogy should have been planned out better. At the same time, I think it's worth mentioning that perfect planning is not always necessary to make movies like these work (it obviously helps though... don't get me wrong). From what I understand, the original trilogy was not completely mapped out from the beginning, and some major plot points (the Emperor being in VI, Leia being Luke's sister) were decided upon fairly late.

In my opinion, the bigger issue was each director's lack of respect for what the other was trying to accomplish, to the point that some plot points kind of undid prior ones. The best example I can think of is Rey's lineage. The way I saw things in VIII was that Rey's parents were no one, which tied into a greater theme of anyone being able to accomplish great things regardless of their upbringing. In IX, Rey was revealed as a Palpatine, which was kind of devastating to Johnson's theme. It wasn't completely eradicated - Finn became force-sensitive despite coming from nothing, and the Resistance defeated the Emperor's fleet - but it had less impact, at least to me.
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Offline Zantera

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Rey's lineage and Snoke are the 2 major things that stand out as Rian/JJ clearly having very different ideas for. I would add Luke because he felt like a different character in TLJ and felt more like a return to his old self in RoS. And yeah I agree that sometimes it's good to wait and let a movie come out, see what works and what doesn't work and adjust the details - you don't need everything mapped out. However having a plan seems like a very logical thing. We're gonna build a house and to do so we need a foundation and we need to get the ground floor down before we work on the second level and then the roof. We don't have to decide the decoration of each room before we get this down but we need a structure planned so we can execute. :p

I hope the next trilogy is better planned out but I have a feeling it will be. :)

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What next trilogy though?
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Offline faizoff

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What next trilogy though?

I'm guessing the Rian Johnson trilogy though there doesn't appear to be any word on it regarding its progress. There was supposed to be another trilogy by David & Dan - the Game of Thrones show creators but they backed out of that deal.
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What next trilogy though?

I guess the Rian Johnson and the GoT guys both had their trilogies scrapped but I think it's a fair assumption that Disney are looking either at a non-Skywalker trilogy (old republic or something like that) OR they already start thinking about Episode 10, 11 and 12 mostly because their trilogy didn't have that impact they were hoping for.

Offline gmillerdrake

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What next trilogy though?

I guess the Rian Johnson and the GoT guys both had their trilogies scrapped but I think it's a fair assumption that Disney are looking either at a non-Skywalker trilogy (old republic or something like that) OR they already start thinking about Episode 10, 11 and 12 mostly because their trilogy didn't have that impact they were hoping for.

From what Iíve read online itís supposed to be Old Republic related with Filoni and Favreau more or less with creative control over the over arcing story.

Whatever it is those two are in the fold now which is good news.
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Offline faizoff

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What next trilogy though?

I guess the Rian Johnson and the GoT guys both had their trilogies scrapped but I think it's a fair assumption that Disney are looking either at a non-Skywalker trilogy (old republic or something like that) OR they already start thinking about Episode 10, 11 and 12 mostly because their trilogy didn't have that impact they were hoping for.

From what Iíve read online itís supposed to be Old Republic related with Filoni and Favreau more or less with creative control over the over arcing story.

Whatever it is those two are in the fold now which is good news.


Has that been confirmed that they are making SW movies? Aren't they just involved in the Mandalorian? I think Kevin Fiege is overseeing a standalone SW movie, not sure about anything else.
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Online lordxizor

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All that's been officially announced is a Kevin Fiege one-off movie and a Taika Waititi movie. Though I don't think the Rain Johnson trilogy is officially dead. I would be shocked if both of these films weren't being subtlety (or not so subtlety) set up for sequels if they are well received. I would love it if Star Wars took the approach of letting filmmakers have a long leash and making the film they want (while adhering to certain established laws within the Star Wars universe), then if they are a success, allowing them to do sequels.

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It's never smart trusting internet rumors, especially if it's about Star Wars.. :lol

All that's been officially announced is a Kevin Fiege one-off movie and a Taika Waititi movie. Though I don't think the Rain Johnson trilogy is officially dead. I would be shocked if both of these films weren't being subtlety (or not so subtlety) set up for sequels if they are well received. I would love it if Star Wars took the approach of letting filmmakers have a long leash and making the film they want (while adhering to certain established laws within the Star Wars universe), then if they are a success, allowing them to do sequels.

I have to agree with this as well. I would hate it, if Star Wars became just another calculated boardroom think tank product. There was some of that in TROS, but it nonetheless managed to tell a fairly engaging story. The more we get filmmakers doing the movies they feel passionate about, the better.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Rey's lineage and Snoke are the 2 major things that stand out as Rian/JJ clearly having very different ideas for. I would add Luke because he felt like a different character in TLJ and felt more like a return to his old self in RoS. And yeah I agree that sometimes it's good to wait and let a movie come out, see what works and what doesn't work and adjust the details - you don't need everything mapped out. However having a plan seems like a very logical thing. We're gonna build a house and to do so we need a foundation and we need to get the ground floor down before we work on the second level and then the roof. We don't have to decide the decoration of each room before we get this down but we need a structure planned so we can execute. :p

I hope the next trilogy is better planned out but I have a feeling it will be. :)

Agreed on Rey and Snoke. Interestingly, I believe that Luke was one of the few plot points where Lucas, J.J., and Johnson were at least on the same page. Maybe not on the same paragraph or the same word, but at least vaguely on the same page. Kylo Ren seems to be another one where everyone was in lockstep, but I'm just speculating now.
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Offline faizoff

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All that's been officially announced is a Kevin Fiege one-off movie and a Taika Waititi movie.


Forgot about the Waititi movie, though I'm thinking that's still some time away. As of now it looks risky to commit to a trilogy, like people have said I wouldn't be surprised if internally the exec team were expecting a much bigger box office response for the last 2 SW movies (Solo + TROS).
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Offline gmillerdrake

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All that's been officially announced is a Kevin Fiege one-off movie and a Taika Waititi movie. Though I don't think the Rain Johnson trilogy is officially dead. I would be shocked if both of these films weren't being subtlety (or not so subtlety) set up for sequels if they are well received. I would love it if Star Wars took the approach of letting filmmakers have a long leash and making the film they want (while adhering to certain established laws within the Star Wars universe), then if they are a success, allowing them to do sequels.

I agree....and, I thought that of the three sequels that TLJ was actually the best overall movie. It threw a wrench in the over arcing story and didn't appear to be in line with any of the things that JJ set up....but.....I thought Johnson made a really good movie and would be comfortable with him doing a trilogy of his own.

It's never smart trusting internet rumors, especially if it's about Star Wars.. :lol

True. The Filoni/Favreau stuff 'could' be completely false but there is just SO much talk of it out there it seems legit. And, with the success of The Mandalorian and the fact that Filoni is a George Lucas disciple and a wikipedia of SW legend and lore.....I can't see how Disney would shut them out of future projects. They HAVE to see what a train wreck..non talent, coat tail rider Kathleen Kennedy is and not allow her to ruin SW any further. 
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I had to Google the name Taika Waititi to see what Star Wars character that is, as it wasn't familiar to me. Clearly, as it is an actual person. But is there a person out there with a more Star Wars name than that?
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Taika Waititi is a name I've only become familiar with in the past few years, but during that short time, he's been involved with a bunch of stuff that I like.  If he was somehow involved in new Star Wars movies, I can only see that as a good thing.

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I discovered Taika when I first saw What we do in the Shadows and that movie is a riot. One of the funniest movies I've seen. From there I watched whatever I could, the guy is immensely talented and has my kind of comedic chops.

His presence (both character and directing) in The Mandalorian was great.

If anyone hasn't seen it yet you should definitely watch his movie The Hunt for the Wilderpeople.
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Star Wars: The Bad Batch animated series coming to Disney+ in 2021.

"The series follows the elite and experimental clones of the Bad Batch (first introduced in The Clone Wars) as they find their way in a rapidly changing galaxy in the immediate aftermath of the Clone War. Members of Bad Batch ó a unique squad of clones who vary genetically from their brothers in the Clone Army ó each possess a singular exceptional skill, which makes them extraordinarily effective soldiers and a formidable crew. In the post-Clone War era, they will take on daring mercenary missions as they struggle to stay afloat and find new purpose."

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-bad-batch-series-announce

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Interesting.  Their arc in the series was pretty entertaining, so I think the seeds are there for a good story.
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Interesting.  Their arc in the series was pretty entertaining, so I think the seeds are there for a good story.
For me it's kind of a "meh" response. I'll watch it if I still have Disney+ when it comes out, but it's unlikely I would get Disney+ just for this.

I would have preferred the next animated series was completely unrelated to any existing Star Wars movie or show.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 12:40:28 PM by lordxizor »

Offline gmillerdrake

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I would have preferred the next animated series was completely unrelated to any existing Star Wars movie or show.

I would love to see a Vadar-centric series that pics up immediately after Order 66 that spans the years in between ROTS and ANH when Vadar 'earns' and creates his reputation as the Powerful and sinister Sith he is........done in the animation style of S7 of The Clone Wars.


But, I'll watch the Bad Batch series......not sure how long that could go on but it'd be full of action I'm sure.
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Offline bosk1

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I would love to see a Vadar-centric series that pics up immediately after Order 66 that spans the years in between ROTS and ANH when Vadar 'earns' and creates his reputation as the Powerful and sinister Sith he is........done in the animation style of S7 of The Clone Wars.

I'd love to see that, if it was done right.  But honestly, Clone Wars should have done a better job of setting all that up, and didn't.  I mean, it nailed the "powerful" side.  But the seeds of "sinister" weren't really all that present, other than him getting angry at times.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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I would love to see a Vadar-centric series that pics up immediately after Order 66 that spans the years in between ROTS and ANH when Vadar 'earns' and creates his reputation as the Powerful and sinister Sith he is........done in the animation style of S7 of The Clone Wars.

I'd love to see that, if it was done right.  But honestly, Clone Wars should have done a better job of setting all that up, and didn't.  I mean, it nailed the "powerful" side.  But the seeds of "sinister" weren't really all that present, other than him getting angry at times.

Yeah.....There were a few moments when Anakin murdered in cold blood outside of the 'Jedi Way' when he would lose it a bit.....but, I think Filoni and Co. wanted to respect what Lucas did with the prequels in the aspect of them not really showing too much of what we already saw in the prequels there towards the end of TCW's. Like with Order 66.......I know my brother was expecting TCW's to show more of it and not really just leave it focused on Ahsoka and Rex......he thought they'd give us more of the other Jedi that survived and more of Anakin as Vadar. I just don't think it'd have worked.



Now in Rebels they do show more of the initial years of Vadar and show us that aura and power that was always implied in the OT. It's cool to see
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Online lordxizor

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  • and that is the truth.
I like that idea, eventually. I think they should give any Skywalker characters a break for several years.