Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)  (Read 247063 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1855 on: January 02, 2020, 09:18:09 AM »
Ep. VIII - The Last Jedi

To me, this was a good movie that failed to be great simply because it had some major distractions.  It seemed to owe a lot of the fantastic Battlestar Galactica episode titled "33," which, to me, was a great idea.  It just fell a bit flat in the execution.  As explained in the last section, if two things were tweaked satisfactorily, I think this could have been a great movie.  The major complaints that I hear voiced the most (Luke's character, Snoke getting killed off, Rey being a "nobody," and Holdo keeping the escape plan a mystery) completely fall of deaf ears as far as I am concerned.  To me, they are actually some of the movie's greatest strenghts and are exactly in line with what I would realistically expect.

Three things that worked:
1.  Snoke's throne room.  So much awesome. 
2.  Luke's arc.  I get the naysayers.  But, to me, this was a VERY logical arc and had a fantastic payoff in ROS.  Some of the specifics, like the space cow, were awkward to took me out of the moment.  But Luke being cynical and having to be forced to finally grapple with his failures and his fears, and how that manifested itself was done very well.
3.  I would be remiss if I didn't mention the "Holdo Maneuver" scene.  It was just beautifully shot.  Not much more needs to be said.

Three things that didn't:
1.  Canto Bight as a whole.  So much about this side quest was a mess.  I could have lived with it if it were fixed.  But as a whole, this entire sequence was a huge miss for me.  For starters, to be a casino planet, the scale was totally off.  I have been in large casinos.  I have been in small, backwater casinos that just felt empty and sad.  This felt like the latter.  It didn't even have the scale of a single, large casino, much less a casino planet.  That set a bad tone right from the get go.  And things went downhill from there. 
2.  Phasma.  There was the hope of a payoff for this character that was not delivered on in the previous film.  And I think we almost got it.  The extended scene got us closer.  But it still didn't quite get us there, and I couldn't help but feel that we got teased with a great executioner character that never lived up to the potential that had been teased.
3.  Rose stopping Finn from taking out the canon.  It was dumb.  And pointless.  And it created so many other problems (e.g., them being able to somehow get around the walkers and get back into the base).  I get the theme they were trying to hammer home here, and it wasn't a bad idea in the abstract.  But in the execution, it completely failed.

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  I hate to basically review "the movie I wish this was" rather than "the movie we got," and to substitute my own judgment for that of the filmmakers.  But that's kinda what this section is about, to a small extent.  To me, other than the prequels, this film could have benefitted the most from a couple of minor tweaks that could have had major impact.  First off, given that the entire film's conflict centered around the slow chase, I personally needed a bit more explanation of how and why events played out this way.  We got a short line about how the resistance ships were lighter and faster.  But I think most of us felt like that wasn't good enough.  The First Order needed to grapple with that a bit more.  Maybe even a couple of lines where they just said something like, "Well, we could just have a couple of ships jump around in front of them and cut them off, couldn't we?"  "Yes, we could.  But today we are completely stamping out the last vestiges of this pathetic resistance movement, and we are going to make them suffer through every last agonizing moment of their impending extinction, so let's just follow along behind and toy with them as they experience every last drop of their ability to run gradually evaporate before their eyes."  I would have been fine with something like that.  It didn't have to be something big.  And it didn't have to be militarily sound.  The sample dialog I just wrote is stupidly arrogant.  But it is the type of stupid arrogance the bad guys in this type of film would display, so it feels logical in the context of the film.  I needed something like that.

Second, fix Canto Bight.  I mentioned the scale issue.  And the tone of it all, and the rest of the execution of it, just felt completely off.  From a storytelling perspective, Johnson and co. needed something more fun and up-beat that had a bit of action to it, and I get that.  The A and B storylines, while being compelling, were slow by their very nature.  They needed something else going on.  So Canto Bight, unfortunately, had to exist.  But it ended up being a keystone cops sequence, and some badly misplaced attempted social commentary, in an environment whose scale felt unbelievably off and completely took me out of the moment.  I'm not going to do my typical thing of providing a concise rewrite because I can't really think of a way to rewrite this plotline.  But it badly needed it, in my opinion.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1856 on: January 02, 2020, 09:47:25 AM »
Bosk... I get what you're saying about the slow chase, and suggestion to fix it.  But when you pulled out the "military organization' card that you did a couple weeks back when I lamented Holdo withholding the overall plan from Poe, I'm dumbfounded you could even think - let alone suggest - such a ridiculous military tactic.  It's not a bad idea in how to make a ridiculous plotline slightly less ridiculous, but it just seems to completely contradict the principle you put forth earlier about military structure and tactics.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1857 on: January 02, 2020, 09:52:35 AM »
I'm...I guess, dumbfounded that you'd be dumbfounded.  Those aren't comparable, so I have no idea how you see a "contradiction." 
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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1858 on: January 02, 2020, 10:15:06 AM »
You can hunt for it, but there is a lot of breaking news today regarding Disney strong-arming JJ and that the last film was not what JJ wanted, for the most part. Disney forced them to make a bunch of fan-service edits and such to the films. JJ didn't want the kiss at the end, apparently all of the old Jedi's actually showed up and filmed in costume and were supposed to surround Rey as force ghosts instead of just being disembodied voices, etc. I guess JJ had a 3 hour cut of the film and was forced to heavily edit it at Disney's order.

I have never been a big fan of Disney and this just adds to it. This goes along with the other news that I saw where Ryan Reynolds is now having to fight Disney for an R rating for Deadpool 3 and the ability to be involved in the creative process. Deadpool as PG-13? Nope, not interested.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1859 on: January 02, 2020, 10:30:46 AM »
It's a dumpster fire of a movie if you think for even a second about the logic used in this film.  Don't even have to go nitpicking - major plot beats make no logical sense :lol
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1860 on: January 02, 2020, 10:33:56 AM »
You can hunt for it, but there is a lot of breaking news today regarding Disney strong-arming JJ and that the last film was not what JJ wanted, for the most part. Disney forced them to make a bunch of fan-service edits and such to the films. JJ didn't want the kiss at the end, apparently all of the old Jedi's actually showed up and filmed in costume and were supposed to surround Rey as force ghosts instead of just being disembodied voices, etc. I guess JJ had a 3 hour cut of the film and was forced to heavily edit it at Disney's order.

I have never been a big fan of Disney and this just adds to it. This goes along with the other news that I saw where Ryan Reynolds is now having to fight Disney for an R rating for Deadpool 3 and the ability to be involved in the creative process. Deadpool as PG-13? Nope, not interested.

I'd wait to see how accurate all of that is. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it is to some degree. When JJ says that people criticising the movie are just as right as people who love it, you get that impression. But I can't see (and I might be wrong) Disney going "Wait...you want to feature all these great force ghosts in a huge amazing moment? NO! We demand you only use voices vaguely!!"

As far as Deadpool goes........Disney will never make an R rated film. They've said as much a billion times, so why is that shocking? If anything, Deadpool should just stay under Fox, so that Marvel can have their creative input but not be limited by the rating.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1861 on: January 02, 2020, 10:43:05 AM »
Started watching the Mandalorian, really enjoying it so far.  It's nice to see something in this universe being done well and not over thinking, it's a simple story that is fun and compelling in the universe.  4 episodes in, probably watch the other four this weekend.  :yarr

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1862 on: January 02, 2020, 11:48:50 AM »
I'm...I guess, dumbfounded that you'd be dumbfounded.  Those aren't comparable, so I have no idea how you see a "contradiction."

I'll try to point out what is clearly a blindspot for you - which, frankly, is any time anyone points out conflicting statements of yours.

Based on the posts a couple of weeks back, from your perspective it's completely ok for a Military Admiral (Holdo) to withhold vital information from her leadership, which ultimately caused a mutiny.  While I disagree with that perspective, I see/understand the point you're making.  Concurrently, based on your post summarizing TLJ, it appears you believe that it's perfectly acceptable military strategy to toy with and tease your enemy when there's a clear path to victory?  The commonality I'm drawing with these two events is simply in viewing them both in the context of military strategy.

You imply both are perfectly acceptable, and what I'm dumbfounded about is your belief the latter is a sound military tactic.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1863 on: January 02, 2020, 11:51:02 AM »
One thing's for sure, things would've been different under Babu Frik's command.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1864 on: January 02, 2020, 11:54:21 AM »
I gotta say, I think I like this movie less and less every time I read something from Chris Terrio. His recent statements about Palpatine really supported my worst hunches.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1865 on: January 02, 2020, 12:02:23 PM »
I'm...I guess, dumbfounded that you'd be dumbfounded.  Those aren't comparable, so I have no idea how you see a "contradiction."

I'll try to point out what is clearly a blindspot for you - which, frankly, is any time anyone points out conflicting statements of yours.

Based on the posts a couple of weeks back, from your perspective it's completely ok for a Military Admiral (Holdo) to withhold vital information from her leadership, which ultimately caused a mutiny.  While I disagree with that perspective, I see/understand the point you're making.  Concurrently, based on your post summarizing TLJ, it appears you believe that it's perfectly acceptable military strategy to toy with and tease your enemy when there's a clear path to victory?  The commonality I'm drawing with these two events is simply in viewing them both in the context of military strategy.

You imply both are perfectly acceptable, and what I'm dumbfounded about is your belief the latter is a sound military tactic.

I think perhaps you just might be too invested in your incorrect position that every time I post something you disagree with, it must be because of a "blind spot" on my part.  The two things you posted aren't comparable, so there is no contradiction.  Sorry you don't get that, but that's okay.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1866 on: January 02, 2020, 12:13:15 PM »
Don't mean to change the subject here, but I went and looked up some of the things that Deney Terrio has been saying, and...

Okay, I concede that I didn't see the film yet (nor The Last Jedi), but I'm not sure I'm on board with the spirit of some of the criticisms.  I get if there's a logical incontinuity, or if something is poorly executed (Hayden Christianson's acting), but I don't get arguing about creative choices like whether Rey is so-and-so's kid, or so-and-so's kid.  They have to make a choice, and it seems like someone is going to be happy/disappointed with any choice, regardless of what it is, so why bother making the movie if you're not going to commit?  And the corollary is, why want and watch the movie if you're not going to accept the creative choices that were made? 

I get it, there are exceptions to every rule, and I'm not suggesting that we have to LIKE everything, but there seems to be almost a... demand, for lack of a better word, that it have turned out in a different way.  It's one thing to say "wow, I found that unsatisfying", and why, but some of the criticisms really dig a lot deeper than that, and I think that's unfair to the producers (in the literal sense of the word, not the "capital P" producers of the film). 

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1867 on: January 02, 2020, 12:23:59 PM »
@ Bosk... First, I believe I simply explained why I was dumbfounded - and there is no right-vs-wrong when someone expresses confusion or surprise or dismay.  Yet, you completely disregarded my post just to point out how you're right, and I'm wrong. Talk about being invested in one's own position.

What I'm trying to say is that the comparison is in military tactics.  Exhibit A) Holdo witholding information.  Exhibit B) Toying/teasing the enemy.  If you are saying these two events from the movie are not comparable as military tactics, then I'm even more confused.

I'll take the rest of it to PM.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1868 on: January 02, 2020, 12:35:04 PM »
I don't get arguing about creative choices like whether Rey is so-and-so's kid, or so-and-so's kid.  They have to make a choice, and it seems like someone is going to be happy/disappointed with any choice, regardless of what it is, so why bother making the movie if you're not going to commit?  And the corollary is, why want and watch the movie if you're not going to accept the creative choices that were made? 

I have a great multitude of thoughts on all of this chunk of text.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1869 on: January 02, 2020, 12:51:50 PM »
Well, I'd like to hear it, because this is a fluid subject, and certainly subject to perception. I even find myself going both ways on this, because there's not a hard and fast line.    I'm really operating on a general feeling that some of the criticisms seem very unfair/unwarranted when phrased like they are. 

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1870 on: January 02, 2020, 12:59:42 PM »
Well, I'd like to hear it, because this is a fluid subject, and certainly subject to perception. I even find myself going both ways on this, because there's not a hard and fast line.    I'm really operating on a general feeling that some of the criticisms seem very unfair/unwarranted when phrased like they are.

As I said before, I have no interest in debating the TROS specifically, but to address your overall point, are you saying that all creative decisions have to be accepted without criticism and that people should only be allowed to criticize poor construction of said ideas (such as bad acting, technical stuff, inconsistent internal logic etc)?

Cause, no. I mean, obviously some people want things to go one way and get upset if that doesn't happen, but there's PLENTY of legit criticism of ideas.

I mean, if Godfather ended with Marlon Brando dying and then having exploding diarrhea for 15 minutes on screen, I feel like we can be free to call that a pretty dumb decision in the movie. We can't just look to criticize the ability of Brando to effectively defecate on screen etc.

Maybe it's a philosophical difference. That's cool. In which case I'd suggest just not engaging in it, as opposed to telling others that their criticism is either wrong or not allowed.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1871 on: January 02, 2020, 01:05:57 PM »
Well, I'd like to hear it, because this is a fluid subject, and certainly subject to perception. I even find myself going both ways on this, because there's not a hard and fast line.    I'm really operating on a general feeling that some of the criticisms seem very unfair/unwarranted when phrased like they are.

I could write them down, but you haven't even seen The Last Jedi or The Rise of Skywalker, so it's pointless to do so unless you want every beat of the films spoiled for you.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1872 on: January 02, 2020, 01:14:49 PM »
Speaking of film criticism, the "Half in the Bag" review for Rise of Skywalker came up again in my playlist and started playing, so I let it go.  I was reminded repeatedly why I (1) don't typically waste my time listening to them, and (2) turned this one off about 2 minutes in the first time it came up.  I don't think it's even possible to be more pretentious, full of oneself, and factually wrong about the content of what one is actually reviewing than these guys.  :lol  I tend to figuratively roll my eyes when folks throw around terms like "dumpster fire" to describe something.  But, man, what a dumpster fire that review was!  :lol
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1873 on: January 02, 2020, 01:19:00 PM »
Speaking of film criticism, the "Half in the Bag" review for Rise of Skywalker came up again in my playlist and started playing, so I let it go.  I was reminded repeatedly why I (1) don't typically waste my time listening to them, and (2) turned this one off about 2 minutes in the first time it came up.  I don't think it's even possible to be more pretentious, full of oneself, and factually wrong about the content of what one is actually reviewing than these guys.  :lol  I tend to figuratively roll my eyes when folks throw around terms like "dumpster fire" to describe something.  But, man, what a dumpster fire that review was!  :lol

SPOILERS for people like Stadler...




Keep in mind this guy also literally said Rise of Skywalker has no flaws, so either he's got blinders on or his ability to critically think has taken a beating. A few questions off the top of my head. Explain C3PO's Sith block. Why on earth would Anakin include that as a little kid? HOW, even, would he program him with that information? Why does the Sith dagger magically fit the wreckage of the Death Star, from that very convenient specific location, like an Indiana Jones fanfic? Why do they act like flying Storm Troopers is something new? What purpose did Finn serve in this film? Where did they set up Palpatine's connections to this trilogy in the other two films? What was the point of introducing Zorii Bliss, who served zero purpose in this film? How did everybody on the Resistance's side make it to Exogol and back when it was shown to be a massive PITA getting there in the first place? Why is the Death Star wreckage even there after we all saw it vaporized? Why bring back a character who had no reason to be back if not because they had no idea where they were going with this trilogy's story?




END SPOILERS


I don't think those are all minor points, several of them are major plot elements that do not make sense or have a satisfying logical answer. And it doesn't sit well with me to just brush them off and 'not think too much about it' because they are presenting this saga as something with some weight to it, an epic tale. And epic tales without consistent internal logic bother the hell out of me. People call this nitpicking but I vehemently disagree because it's stuff that isn't even consistent with Star Wars's own internal logic.

The RLM video is sarcastic and certainly loves to mock the trilogy, however, they raise a GREAT many points about why this film is problematic on a fundamental level. And just as silly as you think it is for me to complain about this movie, bosk (as I've raised points to you about this movie that you have brushed aside as either 'nitpicking' or me just looking for reasons to tear it apart), I think it's silly for you to label their very thorough dissection of the film as a 'dumpster fire.' At least they aren't blindly showering it with praise.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 01:32:03 PM by Kattelox »
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1874 on: January 02, 2020, 01:34:55 PM »
To answer the questions you raised:
nitpicking
:dunno:
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1875 on: January 02, 2020, 01:37:18 PM »
You know, you PMed me recently over a discussion in this thread, and you said, "Don't you think you're overreacting just a little?" when I took offense to the way you talked to me. But no, I don't think I did, especially when you give real shitty replies like that one you just made. I have several times now brought up valid arguments and you refuse to acknowledge them and only want to be a smartass. That's real cool, bosk.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1876 on: January 02, 2020, 01:39:05 PM »
Dude, knock off the namecalling.  There's no call for that.  If you don't like what I (or anyone) am saying about the movies, you can ignore it. 
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1877 on: January 02, 2020, 01:39:41 PM »
Well, I'd like to hear it, because this is a fluid subject, and certainly subject to perception. I even find myself going both ways on this, because there's not a hard and fast line.    I'm really operating on a general feeling that some of the criticisms seem very unfair/unwarranted when phrased like they are.

As I said before, I have no interest in debating the TROS specifically, but to address your overall point, are you saying that all creative decisions have to be accepted without criticism and that people should only be allowed to criticize poor construction of said ideas (such as bad acting, technical stuff, inconsistent internal logic etc)?

Cause, no. I mean, obviously some people want things to go one way and get upset if that doesn't happen, but there's PLENTY of legit criticism of ideas.

I mean, if Godfather ended with Marlon Brando dying and then having exploding diarrhea for 15 minutes on screen, I feel like we can be free to call that a pretty dumb decision in the movie. We can't just look to criticize the ability of Brando to effectively defecate on screen etc.

Maybe it's a philosophical difference. That's cool. In which case I'd suggest just not engaging in it, as opposed to telling others that their criticism is either wrong or not allowed.

I do understand your point and I agree with it; there's a line there somewhere.  I'm not speaking broadly.   But - and I'll try to stay away from the new trilogy to not inflame - I get questioning deep rooted character issues; your Brando example (lovely visual, BTW), or the questioning of Jaime Lanister's motivations in Game Of Thrones, or Anakin's rationale for his hissy fit/flipping to the Dark Side.   But I think there's a level at which the criticisms become less about arc and continuity, and more about personal choice.   Jon sleeping with Danearys; Michael vis-a-vis Kay; Darth Vader force-choking his subordinates.  None of those are out-of-character or otherwise illogical.   We can certainly debate where that line is, but I think it does exist.

(And by the way, DEEP appreciation for those still taking the care to be respectful.  I know some of the plot points, not all, and  your respect is valued by me.  I'm hoping to see the film in the next few days, this weekend at the latest.)

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1878 on: January 02, 2020, 01:41:01 PM »
Dude, knock off the namecalling.  There's no call for that.  If you don't like what I (or anyone) am saying about the movies, you can ignore it.

No. I've told you in PM several times about the way you make people feel when you reply to them in a discussion, and your response is always some baffled, "I never possibly ever could see my words in that light, and the problem probably lies with you" type of excuse. When I put effort into a reply raising valid arguments that you could respond to like everybody else does, because we're discussing a piece of entertainment, you go out of your way again to shrug it off and mock it. And just like I predicted, you turn it around and try to make me look bad. And you wonder why I get angry when we disagree?

I have told you the very same thing about "if you don't like [this], ignore it" and you even agreed to that. So why doesn't this apply to you? Your 'dumpster fire' comment was clearly piggybacking off something I wrote, because you took offense to me criticizing a movie you enjoy.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 01:48:22 PM by Kattelox »
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1879 on: January 02, 2020, 01:48:39 PM »
Namecalling is out of bounds, period.  Always.  If anybody did it to you, I'd be saying the same thing to them.  You can either follow the rules and stop, or I will put a stop to it.  Now, for the last time, stop derailing the SW discussion with your personal attacks.  That's the last I'll say on that subject.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1880 on: January 02, 2020, 01:49:33 PM »
There's a whole bunch of conversation about Star Wars in my post that isn't derailing at all. You could address those "non-flaws" if you want, or you can mock my post again with a shrug emoji. Your call, Warden.
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Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1881 on: January 02, 2020, 01:50:14 PM »




As far as Deadpool goes........Disney will never make an R rated film. They've said as much a billion times, so why is that shocking? If anything, Deadpool should just stay under Fox, so that Marvel can have their creative input but not be limited by the rating.



"On a call with investors, Disney Chairman and CEO Bob Iger said that Disney will continue to make R-rated Deadpool movies and other adult-oriented Marvel adventures after it absorbs much of Fox."


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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1882 on: January 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM »
Yes. But not under the Disney banner. Fox is still around.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1883 on: January 02, 2020, 02:03:39 PM »
There's a whole bunch of conversation about Star Wars in my post that isn't derailing at all.

And that part of your post is fine.  That does not render you above the forum rules for parts of your post that are violations.  So keep it within the rules.

As far as addressing your questions, I can if you really want me to.  But, again, I'm not really fussed by those points and just see them as "nitpicking," as you put it.  If you want my thoughts on each specific point, I mean, I guess that's fine. 
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1884 on: January 02, 2020, 02:06:14 PM »
There's a whole bunch of conversation about Star Wars in my post that isn't derailing at all.

And that part of your post is fine.  That does not render you above the forum rules for parts of your post that are violations.  So keep it within the rules.

As far as addressing your questions, I can if you really want me to.  But, again, I'm not really fussed by those points and just see them as "nitpicking," as you put it.  If you want my thoughts on each specific point, I mean, I guess that's fine.

How is it nitpicking to ask a legitimate question about one of the major story beats of the film?

The C3PO Sith translation thing. That's how they get to the damn final planet, without C3PO they're screwed. But it literally makes no sense why he would have that ability or information. How is that nitpicking? This is a legitimate issue with the plot.

This is what I mean. The movie is fine if you turn your brain off and drool on yourself a little, but think at all about how this all works together and it falls apart. The plot is as structurally sound as the Death Star currently is.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1885 on: January 02, 2020, 02:39:55 PM »
Anny was a good boy, I'm sure he had good intentions when building that into C3PO.  I don't think I ever thought much about that honestly.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1886 on: January 02, 2020, 02:45:32 PM »
Right but he didn't even know what a Sith was so how could he have programmed the language into C3PO is what my beef is. The internal logic doesn't work. Like even if he knew it, somehow, Annie still wouldn't have the awareness to have it then blocked.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1887 on: January 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM »
Kox, I have a whoooooole lot of issues with the movie, but this is a strange hill to die on.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1888 on: January 02, 2020, 02:55:43 PM »
Kox, I have a whoooooole lot of issues with the movie, but this is a strange hill to die on.

I'm not dying on it. It's just one of many glaring issues with the film, that I've tried pointing out to bosk several times, and it only seems that way because Bosk would rather be passive aggressive and make snarky shrug responses instead of addressing the valid conversation points I bring up (despite his insistence on many other occasions that that kind of dismissive behavior is frowned upon).  The film has a lot of other bigger issues, like Palpatine coming back with no setup.

Trust me, I'm actively trying to not list all the many issues with this one. Like I said, it's a fun movie with amazing sound and visuals. But it makes no sense even on its own terms. But any criticism is dismissed as nitpicking. I'm pushing back on that because I think that isn't fair.
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Rise of Skywalker (oh, and The Mandalorian)
« Reply #1889 on: January 02, 2020, 02:57:46 PM »
Katt... it's a valid criticism but not one that busts my nut - I'm sure over 50 years, C3PO had upgrades or add-ons or whatever.  Hell, even Windows gets a patch every few months  :biggrin:.  There are enough *bigger* things to scratch my head over that this one flew under my radar.  It was dumb, but I wasn't bothered enough to think about *how* dumb. 

I've had this post brewing for a while, so forgive me for bringing up some old comments.

*Finn-not-telling Rey whatever it was* Not everything needs a payoff.  Real life isn't poor storytelling.[/size]

You’re absolutely right.  But this isn’t real life - a fictional movie is storytelling.  If I want real life, I’ll go outside :lol.  I go to the movies to have someone else (visually) tell me a story.  So yes, opening this door, then never addressing it is poor story telling. Same with how Maz got the lightsaber.  Also, wasn’t said lightsaber torn in two in TLJ.  How did it make a comeback?  Or am I forgetting/missing something?

To me, ROS was such a great film and so superior to TLJ to me that I feel like TLJ really suffers in comparison.  :dunno:  Oh well.  :lol

Well, TROS didn’t have a high bar to step over.

I have quite a few beefs about this movie (not as many as with TLJ), but since this isn’t “Festivus”, I’m not going to air all my grievances.  I’ll just bring up one topic - one that has been repeatedly lamented about:  timing.  First, wasn’t the message from the ‘spy’  that there was 16 hours until this new fleet would launch?  How did all of the events of this movie happen in the span of 16 hours?  Hell, it would’ve takin Rey a few hours just to sail to and climb up the crashed Death Star.  Second, I’m having trouble accepting Palpatine could recruit the personnel to build that many ships in 35-ish years.  Lastly… the Rebel ‘fleet’.  Chewie / Lando flew around the galaxy and got the message out to bring in what looked like at least a few hundred (perhaps a thousand?) ships in an hour or so?  Side note… (and Katt references this) twice during the movie, it was made to be a big deal about how difficult and treacherous it was to fly in to Exagol, so how did that many ships arrive so quickly and easily?

But overall, I was far more entertained with this than I was with TLJ.  6.5/10 seems about right.  TioJorge said it best.

t felt like this wasn't so much as what should have been a great goodbye to the series, but a cleanup project that ended up leaving a decent amount of smudges behind.

Really, I'm just looking forward to this being over with and now that they seem to have fulfilled at least attempting to tie a bow on things, they can move on to exploring some truly interesting worlds and new characters without being so limited by previous works. Hopefully they'll have an actual plan this time. That is really the only thing that irks me is that...it's a trilogy. It should've had a beginning, a middle, and an end planned out. It is sooooo painfully apparent that they did not have that. At all. That...is a bit odd, considering the material.
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