Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[The Walrus]

Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

There's nothing wrong with that being her 'purpose'. Without knowing what EP 9 has in store.....it's perfectly acceptable for her to represent the missing yang to the dark sides yen. If at the end of it all it's still not clarified as to 'why' she is this missing piece after it's all out there....then you can start throwing stones at the story but right now in the scheme of all of the SW movies....there's no reason to have 'needed' more of an explanation as none of these movies go into great detail as to why things are the way they are. Why were Anakin's midocholorins so high? Why did Yoda run off instead of climbing back up the Senate chamber and continuing his fight with Palpatine? Why did Luke claim himself to be a Jedi Knight to Jabba in ROTJ when he hadn't been back to complete his training with yoda yet? Tons of crap in this saga makes little sense. It's just a fun series....where....the characters are the way they are just because.

I like that you brought up the yin and the yang. I'm probably overthinking it - because as we know, this trilogy wasn't exactly planned out from the start - but there does seem to be a recurring pattern of character couplets where two people need to go through an arc together. Rey + Kylo is obviously the one that dominates the trilogy, but Finn + Poe, Finn + Rose, Poe + Leia, and even Luke + Rey are other combos that are pretty important. I actually like that quite a bit.

[gmillerdrake]

Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

I'm still not convinced that she won't tie into Anakin somehow.....ultimately bringing that underlying 'chosen one' narrative to it's conclusion.

I don't disagree that 'the chosen one' in general is just over played and and 'easy' thing to say/do in movies. SW in particular is 'chosen one' heavy.....but it's still the same story....meaning while we're continually reminded of it and it seems tired and boring......the story hasn't ended so 'if' they can tie Rey to Anakin/Anakin's story her being the chosen one is essentially because he is the chosen one.

I don't F'n know 


I do know I'm personally excited and pumped to see Ep. 9 and have enjoyed both TFA and TLJ....unless this is an utter trainwreck I can't imagine I'll be too disappointed.

[bosk1]

Well, the idea of a/the "chosen one" is important to this storyline, so it's to be expected that that concept would play out in this trilogy.  It's pretty integral to the themes and plot of the whole thing.  I mean, it's kind of like "cosmic McGuffins" in the first four phases of the MCU--yeah, one could say that is played out after 20-something films.  And if you feel that way, you feel that way.    But no use complaining about it, because that's what they are trying to do.

[gmillerdrake]

Well, the idea of a/the "chosen one" is important to this storyline, so it's to be expected that that concept would play out in this trilogy.  It's pretty integral to the themes and plot of the whole thing.  I mean, it's kind of like "cosmic McGuffins" in the first four phases of the MCU--yeah, one could say that is played out after 20-something films.  And if you feel that way, you feel that way.    But no use complaining about it, because that's what they are trying to do.

Yep. That's why it really doesn't bother me.



during our re-watch of all the movies (we have TFA and TLJ left to watch before next Thursday) it became pretty clear to me that the OT over the 30 plus years prior to this recent trilogy has been significantly deified by the SW fan base. They're good....fun movies.....but if you watch those three films you can nit pick the living daylights out of them. But I don't. I enjoy them for what they are. But the SW fan base has raised them to a level that I won't say they don't 'deserve' to be on because they were a massive cultural deal.....but to criticize TFA and TLJ the way a portion of the fan base has and then that same portion outright ignore the massive faults in the OT is simply dishonest.

Even without seeing EP. 9 yet I'd wager that TFA, TLJ and TROS are superior overall 'movies'.....but I will doubt that they impact the culture and fandom the way the OT did. that was the right time/place and a perfect storm.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I agree.  And if people are bothered by the flaws, that's fine.  I mean, I am to an extent, which is what part of my episode-by-episode critiques is about (and I really need to do Ep. III).  But I don't understand the compelling need of some (this isn't aimed at Katt or anyone here, to be clear) to try to compel "me" to be bothered by the things that bother them. 

[Zantera]

You can feel what you want about the 'chosen one' setup but it's kinda a recurring thing in Star Wars by now. You could argue Luke in the OT and Anakin in the prequels both were written a bit as the classic hero who was meant for great things (though we knew Anakin would fall) and Rey kinda follows in these steps as well. To quote George himself, "it's like poetry, it rhymes".

[The Walrus]

I disagree. In a universe with so much lore and so much rich story ripe for the picking, we shouldn't be settling for that. Just my two cents. Look, I'm clearly in the minority, so I'll just be quiet for now. But I KNOW there is a good chunk of the fanbase that agrees with me. So I'm gonna take my lightsaber and go home 

[Zantera]

I disagree. In a universe with so much lore and so much rich story ripe for the picking, we shouldn't be settling for that. Just my two cents. Look, I'm clearly in the minority, so I'll just be quiet for now. But I KNOW there is a good chunk of the fanbase that agrees with me. So I'm gonna take my lightsaber and go home 

It's a formula they want to stick to for the main episodes and I get that. You always have the separate movies for other types of stories. Same with Mandalorian. Personally I wouldn't mind some variety from the formula either but Disney knows what appeals to the widest range of people and that's what brings in the bucks.

[bosk1]

I disagree. In a universe with so much lore and so much rich story ripe for the picking, we shouldn't be settling for that. Just my two cents. Look, I'm clearly in the minority, so I'll just be quiet for now. But I KNOW there is a good chunk of the fanbase that agrees with me. So I'm gonna take my lightsaber and go home 

I'm partially with you and partially not, and here's what I mean by that:  With regard to the Skywalker saga, I say that you are "wrong" because that is an essential theme that has been present and is to come to a conclusion with Ep. IX (although, given the existence of the force, and the lore about how the force works, it would not be unexpected for that to resurface).  It's going to be there because it's intended to be there.

But as far as the expanded universe, they are dealing with that.  Rogue One didn't really have any hint of that (notwithstanding filling in a factual narrative that directly related to the occurrences in the Skywalker saga, AND having Vader appear).  Same with The Mandalorian.  It looks like there absolutely will be more content that goes a different direction and takes advantage of the vastness of the SW universe and lore. 

[The Walrus]

Look, I got it. I'm complaining about why the water is only up to my knees when I'm sitting in the shallow end of the pool. I'm just expressing my frustrations. Sorry y'all.

[bosk1]

No need to apologize.  Just...don't pee in the pool. 

[The Walrus]

No worries. It's not pee.

[faizoff]

Now on to the original trilogy.

And by OT I mean the despecialized versions of the original trilogy.

[Adami]

Watched Rogue One last night as part of my big rewatch.

You know? I really really like this movie. If I recall correctly, this one wasn't too well received for a variety of reasons, but I love it. And I like it with or without the big Vader scene. The characters are very different than any other Star Wars movie, the plot is different, but it feels clearly in universe. This is the cost of the resistance. Instead of being portrayed as the altruistic 100% good guys as they have been, we see the price of standing up to the evil of the Empire, and I enjoy giving the rebellion that kind of depth. Even the good guys sometimes need to do bad things in these kinds of situations. I thought the character arcs, be they short, were well done and I liked the chemistry with everyone.

Only a few things in this movie that I didn't care for.

1) First 5 minutes or so had a LOT of different planets very quickly, just felt odd.
2) The dudes from the bar showing up on Jedha was pointless and dumb
3) 3PO and R2 didn't need to be there.
4) Don't choke on your aspirations is still a dumb as hell line.

The Tarkin and Leia stuff didn't bother me. I know they were CGI, but they were good enough that it didn't take me out of the story. I loved that all of the characters died at the end and that the final battle wasn't for the fate of the galaxy but a single (though important) part of a much bigger plan.

So yea, I think this might be my 3rd fav Star Wars movie after Empire and A New Hope.



Will write one up for A New Hope a big later, since I just watched that.

[MinistroRaven]

[YtseJam]

Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

The whole "chosen one" thing pisses me off and annoys the living shit out of me, even more so when people talk about it like it's a real thing. What a weak excuse for a story line let alone to believe that it makes sense because there is a chosen one. If you believe in the chosen one, you are a stool sample.

[YtseJam]

Now on to the original trilogy.

And by OT I mean the despecialized versions of the original trilogy.

Any other way ensures the failure is now complete

[gmillerdrake]

Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

The whole "chosen one" thing pisses me off and annoys the living shit out of me, even more so when people talk about it like it's a real thing. What a weak excuse for a story line let alone to believe that it makes sense because there is a chosen one. If you believe in the chosen one, you are a stool sample.

     So many ways to reply to this post but I’ll stick with the emoji

[Logain Ablar]

Watched Rogue One last night as part of my big rewatch.

You know? I really really like this movie. If I recall correctly, this one wasn't too well received for a variety of reasons, but I love it. And I like it with or without the big Vader scene. The characters are very different than any other Star Wars movie, the plot is different, but it feels clearly in universe. This is the cost of the resistance. Instead of being portrayed as the altruistic 100% good guys as they have been, we see the price of standing up to the evil of the Empire, and I enjoy giving the rebellion that kind of depth. Even the good guys sometimes need to do bad things in these kinds of situations. I thought the character arcs, be they short, were well done and I liked the chemistry with everyone.

...

I watched Rogue One at the weekend there, and I totally agree with your post above.. I hadn't seen it in a while, maybe over a year, and it struck me that for me it's been the best of the new batch of films. It feels closest in tone to what I think Star Wars should be (whatever that is). It's not perfect, for sure, especially the beginning, where it's all over the place, but the second half of it is great. There's a real sense of urgency and desperation when they realise that this has effectively become a suicide mission. Even the humour, which is normally the thing that will take me straight out of the movie, was well placed.

Only a few things in this movie that I didn't care for.

1) First 5 minutes or so had a LOT of different planets very quickly, just felt odd.
2) The dudes from the bar showing up on Jedha was pointless and dumb
3) 3PO and R2 didn't need to be there.
4) Don't choke on your aspirations is still a dumb as hell line.

To this, I'd add the blind octopus-like mind reading monster, that tests the pilot to see if he's lying. That was a bit silly, but at least it was brief.

On CGI Tarkin/Leia, I think Tarkin was well done, and about 90% convincing. With Leia though, it kinda fell apart when she spoke. The mouth just looked wrong. If they had've just had her turn away from the camera, or done something a bit more subtle, it would have worked a lot better IMO.


My expectations for The Rise Of Skywalker are firmly grounded this time around. This is so weird for me - with the other movies I would have been all over the Star Wars news sites like a rash, checking for tidbits of news every day. Probably spoiling it for myself, to be honest. With this one, I've seen the trailer and that's about it. I haven't been looking for fan theories or spoilers or trying to second guess what's likely to happen. Maybe that's for the best.

[Adami]

Watched A New Hope and Empire over the weekend.

Honestly? Not a whole lot to say since everything has already been said, but these two movies are pretty great and definitely my top 2.


As far as the touched up versions, eh. The scene with Jabba in A New Hope is dumb. As is Greedo shooting first and now apparently calling for Macaulay Culkin immediately before hand. Beyond that? A bit unnecessary at times, but nothing too distracting for the most part..........oh, except for Obi-Wan's yell at the Tuscan Raiders. Eesh.

Empire though? I mean, I am 100% fine with all of the changes they made to that one. Most of it is just improving the visuals.

If I remember correctly though, and I'm sure I'll see it tonight, Jedi is the one that suffered most from the new versions.

[hefdaddy42]

Thanks, Gary. Allow me to reply in full later but the reason it's bad imo is because "the chosen one" is a tired concept and especially played out for Star Wars since we already have gone through "the chosen one." I want a meaningful back story that doesn't rely on such a beaten horse of a cliche.

The whole "chosen one" thing pisses me off and annoys the living shit out of me, even more so when people talk about it like it's a real thing. What a weak excuse for a story line let alone to believe that it makes sense because there is a chosen one. If you believe in the chosen one, you are a stool sample.

"You were the Chosen One!"

[kaos2900]

Finished my re-watch yesterday and am also caught up with The Mandalorian. In addition I'm also half way through season 5 of my re-watch of Clone Wars with my daughters and will move onto Rebels and Resistance upon compilation. I'm also playing the hell out of Star Wars pin ball on the Switch (Amazing) and will be getting Fallen Order for Christmas as well as will be playing the VR Star Wars game shortly. I don't recall there being a better time to be a Star Wars fan. Can't wait until Thursday!

My current film ranking based on the most recent re-watch (I didn't include Solo):

1. The Force Awakens
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. The Last Jedi
4. Empire Strikes Back
5. Rogue One
6. A New Hope
7. Return of the Jedi
8. Attack of the Clones
9. The Phantom Menace

I'm sure my list is unique and most will disagree and I have no interest in debating my list.  I'll revisit after Thursday.

[Samsara]

What the hell, a pre-episode IX list:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. Rogue One
3. Star Wars (A New Hope)
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Last Jedi
8. Solo
9. Attack of the Clones
10. Phantom Menace

[gmillerdrake]

I think this is my ranking at the moment.....

1. The Last Jedi
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. The Force Awakens
4. Rogue One
5. Return of the Jedi
6. A New Hope
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Solo
9. Attack of the Clones
10. The Phantom Menace

[Adami]

We're doing rankings? Eh. I'll do it, but it might change with my rewatch of VII and VIII.

But as of now...

1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. Rogue One
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Force Awakens
6. Last Jedi
7. Phantom Menace
8. Revenge of the Sith
9. Attack of the Clones

Not even putting Solo on there.

Though I'm not sure how much my rewatch will impact this. I really didn't care for 80% of Last Jedi, but I just can't see it getting into prequel territory.

[faizoff]

Will have to think about my ranking.

Got done with the OT despecialized editions. I have to say the editing in all three of these movies are something else. The intercuts with all the different story lines make them all a very compelling watch.

I think ROTJ would rank equal if not better than Empire if they had used the Wookies as originally intended, not that I have an issue with the Ewoks. I know they are meant to appeal to children but the Gungans were far more annoying than anything in the movies. The Ewok usage wan't nearly as jarring as some of the kid stuff in the prequels. For god's sake you see of them dying and the other Ewoks crying and grieving.

I can't wait to rewatch episode 7 & 8. These new movies rekindled my passion for Star Wars and agree with kaos that it's an amazing time to be a Star Wars fan.

[Stadler]

When my daughter comes home tomorrow, we're going to start a watch-through.  Neither of us are going to make the opening nice of "Rise..." so it's kind of our way to stay involved.

I'm going to post my list as I remember them, then I'll update them (if necessary) when I'm done rewatching:

1. A New Hope (As one part of a nine part saga it has flaws/problems, but it was transcendent to this 10 year old.)
2. The Empire Strikes Back (Probably my favorite film, but second because of the impact the first one had.)
3. Rogue One (Better than I expected; I really liked this.)
4. Revenge Of The Sith (not as bad as some claim, IMO)
5. The Force Awakens (I've only seen it once; I need to see it again to really digest it, so middle of the pack for now)
6. The Return Of The Jedi  (Ewoks, man.  Friggin' ewoks.)
7. Attack Of The Clones (a victim of numbers.  Not as bad as APM, but I can't in good conscience put it above TROTJ or TFA)
8. A Phantom Menace (every bit as bad as some claim, IMO.  It's a cardinal sin for Star Wars: BORING.)

Haven't yet seen "The Last Jedi" or "Solo".

[jingle.boy]

Watched The Last Jedi last night for the first time since I saw it in theater.  If anything, I like it even less than I did originally.  There's just SOOOO much wrong with it... I could over-look one, two, hell even four or five flaws, but there are a dozen+  It's just not a good movie.  At all.  Not going to bother re-listing everything, as it's a dead horse I don't feel needs any flogging.

I'm firmly on team "It Sucks".  So much that I might even rank it below TPM and possibly AotC.  I and II have lower 'lows', but they also have higher 'highs'.  TLJ is just consistently dreadful from start to finish (imo).  At least you can skip thru the bad parts in I and II.  If I were to do that with TLJ, then I'd only end up watching about 17 minutes of a 2.5 hour movie.  One thing I can't hold back is Holdo - she's fucking incompetent.  First, SHE creates the mutiny by not disclosing the plan to her officers  Just tell 'fly-boy' "we're heading to this planet for these reasons, and we have enough fuel to get there". Why the secrecy?  Second, good job letting a dozen or so transport ships get obliterated before deciding to do anything about it.  Now, the Galactic Resistance couldn't even dress an NFL starting lineup.  God that character bugs me - and there was NO REASON IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN AKBAR to do that deed.

Rogue One on the other hand... it's in my Top 3 for sure.  Probably Top 2.

[bosk1]

Continuing on with my episode reviews...

Ep. III - Revenge of the Sith:  This is the one to resolve the plot of the PT and show us Anakin's final turn.  It partially succeeded and partially failed.  As with the rest of the PT, this is a story that had really good bones, but where it failed, it failed in the execution and details.  I'm not going to say it was a bad movie, because it was enjoyable.  But the potential was there for it to be better, and it just missed, despite having a lot there to work with and the promise of delivering something truly special.

Three things that worked:
-1.  Sidious/Palpatine.  At least, for the first half of the film.  I fall right in line with others who feel that the opera house scene is one of the best single scenes in the entire PT. 
-2.  The falling ship.  This was taken right out of the Dark Forces II game (with some details modified to fit the different plot and characters), and it totally worked.  Absent to silly R2 hijinx, this entire opening was so much fun.
-3.  Order 66:  *glances at watch*  "It's getting kinda late in the film.  I wonder how they're going to deal with setting up all the Jedi being killed off.  They can't possibly deal with something so huge now with so little screen time left.  I mean, Lucas couldn't possibly...     Okay, wow, that was kinda dope!"

Three things that didn't: 
-1.  Anakin's turning.  The seeds were certainly there.  But...I dunno.  For as extreme a turn as he took, the final push just didn't feel genuine.  I was told and shown all the reasons for the conflict building in Anakin.  But I didn't feel it.  And for Anakin to go so far as to buy into exterminating the Jedi, including killing kids, there needed to be more.  That chamber scene where Mace Windu showed up to challenge Palpatine needed to have something more to it for Anakin to see the Jedi as truly evil and worthy of being exterminated.  That scene didn't have it.
-2.  Yoda:  "Hmm...couldn't defeat Palpatine 1-on-1.  Best just go into exile, possibly forever." 
-3.  Padme's death, and the birth of Luke and Leia.  We don't know exactly why she really died, and it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Honestly, it all basically comes down to Anakin's turn.  It just didn't have the emotional impact it should have.  Lucas just needed a bit more setup to show Anakin truly being manipulated and being convinced that the Jedi truly were evil.  We didn't quite get that, so his protestations about the Jedi being evil "from a certain point of view" just didn't ring true.  And while I sympathized with the Padme angle, the problems with how their relationship was handled in the first two films kept me from completely buying into that as well.  This is why fixing that aspect in the first two films was super important to me.  So my "minor tweaks" boil down to:  (1) Fix the setup with the Anakin/Padme dynamic in the first two films, because even though the relationship works MUCH better in this film, there is unresolved "emotional baggage" lingering around; (2) Do a bit more to make it appear to Anakin that Windu and the Jedi are truly up to no good and are going to plunge the galaxy into horror if not stopped at any cost so that his turn to Vader is more convincing; (3) This may cross over into "major tweak," but Padme's death and the twins' birth needed to be completely re-done.  But this could tie into #2.  This is only one possible suggestion for Act 3 of the film, but it maybe fixes both problems considerably.  So something along these lines:  The Jedi Council learns that Padme is going to have a child who has the potential to join this unknown Sith Lord and tip the scales toward darkness (which was sort of what Palpatine reveals to be what he believes to be Luke's destiny in ROTJ). They decide to take drastic measures, unbeknownst to Anakin and Obi-Wan, and they convince Padme to leave him and go off and have the children in secret. Palpatine, in turn, uses this to manipulate Anakin and convince him that the Jedi are out to destroy everything Anakin loves and to corrupt everything, which in turn causes Anakin to flip out.  He rightly thinks Obi-Wan is involved, and that Padme was also in on it, which then makes is flipping out at both of them when they come to Mustafar to try to turn him back more justified.  And all the way through this, Anakin is lied to about the children.  Palpatine tells him the Jedi taking Padme away caused the child to die before being born.  When Padme goes back to Anakin, she maybe tells him the child died, because she fears him and his motivations, and is protecting the kids.  He doesn't know that there were twins, and that they have been born and are in hiding already.  This makes him killing Padme less messy, and raises the stakes considerably in his final duel with Obi-Wan, where he truly believes Obi-Wan was in on the conspiracy to take away everything from him.  He would truly have a reason for the "hate" that would turn him to the dark side, even if we the audience knew all along that the reason was false and that he was being manipulated and lied to.  In short, it would cover a lot of the flaws in Act 3.  Heck, it would even make the "NOOOOOO!!!" a bit more palatable.

[gmillerdrake]

Watched The Last Jedi last night for the first time since I saw it in theater.  If anything, I like it even less than I did originally.  There's just SOOOO much wrong with it... I could over-look one, two, hell even four or five flaws, but there are a dozen+  It's just not a good movie.  At all.  Not going to bother re-listing everything, as it's a dead horse I don't feel needs any flogging.

I'm firmly on team "It Sucks".  So much that I might even rank it below TPM and possibly AotC.  I and II have lower 'lows', but they also have higher 'highs'.  TLJ is just consistently dreadful from start to finish (imo).  At least you can skip thru the bad parts in I and II.  If I were to do that with TLJ, then I'd only end up watching about 17 minutes of a 2.5 hour movie.  One thing I can't hold back is Holdo - she's fucking incompetent.  First, SHE creates the mutiny by not disclosing the plan to her officers  Just tell 'fly-boy' "we're heading to this planet for these reasons, and we have enough fuel to get there". Why the secrecy?  Second, good job letting a dozen or so transport ships get obliterated before deciding to do anything about it.  Now, the Galactic Resistance couldn't even dress an NFL starting lineup.  God that character bugs me - and there was NO REASON IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN AKBAR to do that deed.

It’s amazing how this movie is either loved or hated with no in between.

[Adami]

I don't love or hate it. I just don't like it.

I think the most annoying thing about TLJ is that it EASILY could have been great. There were some truly great ideas in that movie that either weren't executed well at all, or were bogged down in a bunch of other crap. So much of that story feels like it's 3 different movies dropped on a floor, and put together into one movie.

[bosk1]

One thing I can't hold back is Holdo - she's fucking incompetent.  First, SHE creates the mutiny by not disclosing the plan to her officers  Just tell 'fly-boy' "we're heading to this planet for these reasons, and we have enough fuel to get there". Why the secrecy?

I had very little problem with her.  She acted pretty much how one would expect a military commander in her position to act.  When the stakes are high and the mission depends on total secrecy, no military commander reveals the details of the secret plan to underlings who are not deemed to have a VERY strong "need to know."  That is especially true when one discovers the enemy is able to track you in ways you didn't know possible, and you don't know what other information the enemy has access to.  And that is also especially true when you don't know which underlings can be trusted during a crucial time when it appears there could be information leaks.  And that is also especially true in the specific case of an underling who has just demonstrated a disregard for following orders that has just caused multiple unnecessary deaths and depleted your fleet of a vital resources (all of its bombers).  From a military perspective, she absolutely made the right call.  I get that people want her to have made a different decision.  But, honestly, while it is easy to see that that would have avoided some of the problems that unfolded in the film, it's just not what would happen in any military or paramilitary organization.

[hefdaddy42]

One thing I can't hold back is Holdo - she's fucking incompetent.  First, SHE creates the mutiny by not disclosing the plan to her officers  Just tell 'fly-boy' "we're heading to this planet for these reasons, and we have enough fuel to get there". Why the secrecy?

I had very little problem with her.  She acted pretty much how one would expect a military commander in her position to act.  When the stakes are high and the mission depends on total secrecy, no military commander reveals the details of the secret plan to underlings who are not deemed to have a VERY strong "need to know."  That is especially true when one discovers the enemy is able to track you in ways you didn't know possible, and you don't know what other information the enemy has access to.  And that is also especially true when you don't know which underlings can be trusted during a crucial time when it appears there could be information leaks.  And that is also especially true in the specific case of an underling who has just demonstrated a disregard for following orders that has just caused multiple unnecessary deaths and depleted your fleet of a vital resources (all of its bombers).  From a military perspective, she absolutely made the right call.  I get that people want her to have made a different decision.  But, honestly, while it is easy to see that that would have avoided some of the problems that unfolded in the film, it's just not what would happen in any military or paramilitary organization.

That's exactly why I had no problem with her.

For me, TLJ ranks second only to Empire.

[Adami]

Why did it depend on total absolute secrecy?

And I don't know if I'm right or now, but I don't think Poe was just some random underling. Nor do I think they were relying on very traditional military structure. They just didn't tell him, even when they knew not doing so would cause problems.

Look at the other big plans in the Star Wars movies. None of them were done in total secrecy. Everyone knew the plans.

So was it completely unrealistic? Of course not. Did it feel unnecessary and annoying? Yes, to me at least.