Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[fadetoblackdude7]

If they bring Palps back, wouldn’t that completely retcon Vader’s redemption at the end of RotJ?

[bosk1]

No

[Adami]

If they bring Palps back, wouldn’t that completely retcon Vader’s redemption at the end of RotJ?

Nah. It was his act that mattered, not the outcome.


I dunno how they plan on bringing Sheev back, but Ian McDirmid has stated that the character is, indeed, dead.

[fadetoblackdude7]

If they bring Palps back, wouldn’t that completely retcon Vader’s redemption at the end of RotJ?

Nah. It was his act that mattered, not the outcome.

Good point

[kaos2900]

So Kathleen Kennedy confirmed that the plan to bring the Emperor back came up before TFA started filming. They even contacted Ian Mcdiarmid so he's been on board for years. I still think that they're going to go the clone route and Snoke was clone and Rey is a clone of Anakin.

I could live with that.

and It would make me look at this cave scene as: There's multiple reys, because she is a clone and one of many potential reys. And the cave is revealing to her that she's a copy. Or something like that.

Good point!

[Adami]

Did I miss something? Why do people think everyone is a clone? Rey a clone of Anakin? Snoke a clone of Palpatine? Is Finn a clone of Lando? Is Poe a clone of Han? Is Chewie a clone of another Chewie that sadly died before episode 7? Is Yoda a failed clone of Kermit? What the hell is going on here?

[King Postwhore]

Sex was banded by the Empire.  Clones were the future.

[Grappler]

I don't agree with this clone thing either.  One character, sure.  I think the Emperor will be a force ghost, just like we've seen with the Jedi, and how we are expecting Luke to manifest himself.   Though in Episode III, Palpatine did lure Anakin to the dark side with the Plageus the Wise story of defying death, so that could be possible too.  Ian MacDiarmid wouldn't spoil anything, so it's natural for him to just say, "I'm dead, you'll just have to watch and see." 

If the Force created Anakin, then it's possible for the Force to create someone else, like Rey in another attempt to bring balance.  The Force Awakens was all about the story being cyclical - history repeats itself.  I could see that happening.

[MirrorMask]

But Palpatine was bullshitting. Once Anakin got Vader'ized he was like "So boss how do we cheat death?" and Palpatine told "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together I know we can discover the secret."

So before the sell he was like "Come to the dark side, we totally can defeat death". After the sell he was like "Well... dunno, it's kinda hard, but we'll make it, I'm sure. Now please kill babies"

[Adami]

We all assumed "cheat death" meant stay alive. What if cheating death is the force ghost thing? That's kind of cheating death.

[Orbert]

True.  Also, Yoda is a failed clone of Kermit.

[Polarbear]

No matter how well Palpatine's resurrection goes down in TROS, I'm stoked that we get to see Ian McDiarmid reprise the character one last time!

And yeah, I agree that Vader's redemption was more about him not letting Palpatine kill he's son, rather than destroying the Sith.

[kaos2900]

Well, there were the clone wars so the technology was available and there was a major plot line in the Star War books (which as of now is not cannon) where the emperor created clones of himself to achieve immortality.

[Adami]

Well, there were the clone wars so the technology was available and there was a major plot line in the Star War books (which as of now is not cannon) where the emperor created clones of himself to achieve immortality.

There's also robots. No one is wondering if all the characters are robots.

Honestly, as much interest as I've lost in SW, if any of these characters are clones and they go that way, I'm completely out.

[bosk1]

Wouldn't surprise me if there were to be a Palpatine clone, since precedent for that was long-ago established in the EU. 

There is no way Rey is a clone.  Aside from contradicting basic biology, there's just no reason to assume that that would be the case.  What a silly thing to speculate.

[ariich]

The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

On reflection and now that time has passed since it came out, I agree entirely.

[hefdaddy42]

The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

On reflection and now that time has passed since it came out, I agree entirely.

That is because you are a gentleman of exceedingly rare perspicuity and insight.

[bosk1]

I'll have to watch it again.  I might have ranked it nearly that high when it first came out.  But after repeat viewings, the casino planet thing started to bother me more.  But it's been awhile.  And I've been wanting to watch it again anyway.

[SleeperAwake]

So before the sell he was like "Come to the dark side, we totally can defeat death". After the sell he was like "Well... dunno, it's kinda hard, but we'll make it, I'm sure. Now please kill younglings"

FTFY

[ariich]

The casino planet was OK. Not particularly great but I thought it was fine.

But the film's highs excited me, either emotionally or intellectually. A thrilling movie with some minor flaws is much more my style of storytelling than Abrams' safer approach.

[Cool Chris]

I actually didn't have any problem with the casino planet subplot. But then I generally didn't think too highly of the movie as a whole. So my bar is much lower than others I guess.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I'm not sure why, but I felt compelled to share this. I guess I just found it really interesting.

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/270073/star-wars-how-george-lucas-episode-vii-outline-became-the-last-jedi

The gist is that Luke's self-imposed isolation in Episode VIII was pretty much in line with what George Lucas would have done if he directed the sequel trilogy. That doesn't mean it was the right creative choice or the wrong one, but it does poke a small hole in the idea that Rian Johnson went rogue on Luke's character. My sense is that Luke was always destined to end up how he did. Perhaps under the watchful eye of Lucas or JJ, he does not die in VIII, but he probably dies eventually in IX, and he would not be the Luke we remembered.

Honestly, Luke's arc is one of the things about VIII that I find myself liking more and more as time passes.

[bosk1]

Honestly, Luke's arc is one of the things about VIII that I find myself liking more and more as time passes.

Totally. 

[Orbert]

I can see Luke eventually becoming the person we see in VIII, but it's hard to get there.  He's gone through a lot in the decades since we'd seen him last, but we haven't seen any of it.  One of the criticisms I see a lot about Luke in VIII is that there's "no way" he could've become that person.  That bitter, that disillusioned, that disgusted with everything, that negative... in such a short time.

But wait, it hasn't been a short time, it's been a long time.  It's because the timeline's a bit fucked in the sequel trilogy.  After being "protectors of the galaxy" or whatever for hundreds of years, is 30 years long enough for the Jedi to have become legendary and almost forgotten?  No, that doesn't make sense, and that's the real weakness, trying to make those two things take the same amount of time.  But 30 years is long enough for Luke to have seen some shit, and done some shit, and 30 years is long enough to change a person a hell of a lot.  Maybe people were thinking that he was just off somewhere, travelling the galaxy, enjoying his retirement/exile/whatever.  And then we find out through flashbacks (which weakens the overall effect) what happened.

Anyway, TLJ still has its problems and some will always bug me, but I might be coming around on the Luke thing.

[Polarbear]

Honestly, Luke's arc is one of the things about VIII that I find myself liking more and more as time passes.

Totally.

Luke's arc was the most interesting and engaging part of the movie for me!

[ariich]

But wait, it hasn't been a short time, it's been a long time.  It's because the timeline's a bit fucked in the sequel trilogy.  After being "protectors of the galaxy" or whatever for hundreds of years, is 30 years long enough for the Jedi to have become legendary and almost forgotten?

That didn't happen in this period, it mostly happened between episodes III and IV (remember Han's scepticism about the Force).

[Orbert]

Good point.  At the beginning of IV, it had already been long enough for Officer ForceChokedLoser to mock The Force and anyone who still believed in that.  In the big picture, the events of the Original Trilogy were less significant than they seemed at the time.  The "Return of the Jedi" was just a minor blip in history, the Jedi didn't make a huge resurgence or anything, and it's been another generation since then.

[Adami]

R.I.P. Peter Mayhew. 

https://news.yahoo.com/peter-mayhew-chewbacca-star-wars-dies-230507203.html

[faizoff]

RIP indeed. Chewie, we're home.
 

[Cool Chris]

I recall a story he told where he went to read for George and others, and when they walked in to the room, Peter, being a gentleman, stood up and towered over everyone. To which they said "well, looks like we have a Chewbacca."

[cramx3]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/three-star-wars-films-added-164910115.html

Disney has announced that three previously untitled live-action movies slated for 2022, 2024 and 2026 will be new, untitled “Star Wars” films.

Following the release of “Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker” in December of this year, Disney will release three more “Star Wars” films on Dec. 20, 2022, Dec. 18, 2024 and Dec. 18, 2026, respectively.

Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy previously said in an interview with EW that the “Star Wars” films would be taking a “hiatus for a couple of years.” She also stressed that both Johnson and Benioff and Weiss would be working “very closely together” and even in tandem on their projects, with Benioff and Weiss segueing into “Star Wars” after completing “Game of Thrones.”

So the Game of Thrones show runners are possibley going to make the next Star Wars trilogy?  Oh man, I don't know about this.  I don't want to shit on them for one season that's not going well, but after they ran out of source material, they really struggled to make good compelling stories on their own.  I don't have faith in these guys taking over the SW universe, but I also don't have better options to name really. 

[faizoff]

The interesting takeaway from that list that Disney released is that Avatar sequel is pushed another year to 2021 and will then release in tandem with the Star Wars movies.

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

The Last Jedi is the second best SW film (after Empire, of course).

On reflection and now that time has passed since it came out, I agree entirely.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. TLJ was 80% garbage, 20% the greatest Star Wars movie of all time. So it evens out to a "meh" for me.

[YtseJam]

Did you see this?

https://www.facebook.com/nerdbotmedia/videos/335748497087223/

[Adami]

Did you see this?

https://www.facebook.com/nerdbotmedia/videos/335748497087223/

Okay, THAT is pretty cool.



Regarding The Last Jedi, I hold that it's a badly written movie with three (to my memory) fantastic scenes. The scene where the one ship flies through the fleet is just breathtaking. Kylo and Rey vs. the red dudes is mostly amazing. Luke vs. Kylo is also amazing.

The rest I'd probably put around Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith (which I don't think of nearly as highly as everyone else, and consider it the 2nd worst movie).