Author Topic: Guns are Icky  (Read 2954 times)

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Online kingshmegland

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2018, 03:30:54 PM »
Isn't it time to stop pointing fingers at one another and have true reform.  I'm not saying taking guns away but lets make it harder for those who might have mental issues and bad background to purchase guns.  Also, lets have true healthcare reform (I'm looking at you Dems & Reps) and lets get something done.

Also people need to speak up when they know a certain person is not quite right.  A lot of kids said they knew something was wrong but never spoke up.  It's time to teach our children to see something, say something.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

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Offline cramx3

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2018, 03:34:37 PM »
Isn't it time to stop pointing fingers at one another and have true reform.  I'm not saying taking guns away but lets make it harder for those who might have mental issues and bad background to purchase guns.  Also, lets have true healthcare reform (I'm looking at you Dems & Reps) and lets get something done.

Also people need to speak up when they know a certain person is not quite right.  A lot of kids said they knew something was wrong but never spoke up.  It's time to teach our children to see something, say something.

As for the first paragraph, we will keep dreaming.  I agree, but I have no realistic hope on our congress working together for the better good of the people.  As for the bottom part, I agree, but in this latest one, it seems people were reporting about this guy left and right and yet no one intervened.  It must be really deflating to make the report and it didn't get the attention it deserved.

Online kingshmegland

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2018, 04:33:14 PM »
Ok I just read that.  There needs some accountability for not getting this kid help. 
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Online El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2018, 01:54:19 PM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/12/oklahoma-governor-vetoes-bill-aimed-allowing-adults-carry-gun-without-license/604716002/

So does anybody who isn't a lobbyist for the gun manufactures think constitutional carry is a good idea? Most states will already allow some sort of carry option, providing you pass a security check and demonstrate one or two other aspects of not-crazy. Now the background checks are bad? The NRA is now looking forward to the ouster of the governor of one of the most bat-shit conservative states in the union because she listened to the law enforcement agencies of her state who told her this would be dangerous. I just can't imagine that even the rank and file members are actually in line with this. It amazes me that normal people support these ass-hats.

I'll also point out that the NRA's raison d'etre is to keep the government from encroaching on the 2A. Not an unreasonable goal, IMO. However, that would be a defensive stance. Their rationale for opposing things like universal background checks, which even its own membership supports, is ostensibly on the basis that if you give The Man an inch he'll take a mile. Bad logic, but somewhat correct. What we're seeing from them now is specifically offensive, though. They're not defending gun owners against state intrusion. They're actively seeking to expand gun ownership at many levels, as one would expect from the lobbying branch of the gun industry. This really is a very bad group of people.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2018, 02:17:36 PM »
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/man-charged-in-ballpark-village-killing-but-he-s-still/article_7af63e0c-8ec2-5659-b8c2-abaedf1651c6.html

Just awful.  And I was actually at the Cardinals game on 5/1 where they had a moment of silence for the man who was killed.  Such senseless violence.   :( :(

Online gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2018, 05:25:37 PM »
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/man-charged-in-ballpark-village-killing-but-he-s-still/article_7af63e0c-8ec2-5659-b8c2-abaedf1651c6.html

Just awful.  And I was actually at the Cardinals game on 5/1 where they had a moment of silence for the man who was killed.  Such senseless violence.   :( :(

Yeah. I saw that. All this means is there will now be metal detectors installed which will guarantee that’s yet another venue downtown I won’t support.

Not a fan of having my Missouri Constittutuonal (and National) right to defend myself taken away by these businesses.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #76 on: May 14, 2018, 08:08:32 AM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/12/oklahoma-governor-vetoes-bill-aimed-allowing-adults-carry-gun-without-license/604716002/

So does anybody who isn't a lobbyist for the gun manufactures think constitutional carry is a good idea? Most states will already allow some sort of carry option, providing you pass a security check and demonstrate one or two other aspects of not-crazy. Now the background checks are bad? The NRA is now looking forward to the ouster of the governor of one of the most bat-shit conservative states in the union because she listened to the law enforcement agencies of her state who told her this would be dangerous. I just can't imagine that even the rank and file members are actually in line with this. It amazes me that normal people support these ass-hats.

I'll also point out that the NRA's raison d'etre is to keep the government from encroaching on the 2A. Not an unreasonable goal, IMO. However, that would be a defensive stance. Their rationale for opposing things like universal background checks, which even its own membership supports, is ostensibly on the basis that if you give The Man an inch he'll take a mile. Bad logic, but somewhat correct. What we're seeing from them now is specifically offensive, though. They're not defending gun owners against state intrusion. They're actively seeking to expand gun ownership at many levels, as one would expect from the lobbying branch of the gun industry. This really is a very bad group of people.

I'm with you on this.  I am adamant about following the data - which in my estimation does NOT support "removing guns themselves as a solution to the increasing tendency for people to use public violence as an outlet" - but I do support background checks and administrative controls on gun ownership and usage.    I can't really fathom the NRA strategy here, though.   If "give an inch, he'll take a mile" is the premise, why would you expect the other side to give YOU that inch?   Being on the offensive here doesn't help them.  This isn't the political version of two boxers in a stalemate and pushing each other away in order to engage again.  This is just... I don't know what this is.   Even I - a relative constitutional zealot - don't really buy into this scheme. 

Online El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #77 on: May 14, 2018, 08:45:16 AM »
Yeah, it goes right in line with their bizarre understanding of what reciprocity is. As much as they say otherwise, their goal is very clearly to make sure as many guns as possible are on the streets at any time.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Online gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2018, 09:30:52 AM »
Missouri has constitutional carry now and I hate it. Anyone over age (19) without a record can just conceal a firearm....no class....nothing. Just hide the weapon.

Funny enough....I was pulled over on Friday night and as I mentioned my weapon being near my wallet the officer and I got to talking about how I no longer needed a CCW license and that I could just carry. Fast forward five full minutes and we were still talking guns...training etc. He ended up giving me a written warning and just told me to slow down (54 in a 40)

I am all about conceal carry....think that I should be able to take my gun anywhere at anytime. But I also think that with that responsibility there should be mandatory classes, extended background checks and mandatory scheduled training to achieve that type of CCW privilege. I'd do whatever it took to guarantee  me that I could surpass metal detectors or whatever security screening there was.

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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2018, 09:55:36 AM »
for some reason I'm suddenly reminded of this Dave Chappelle bit... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ3dk6KAvQM

Online El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #80 on: Today at 01:28:24 PM »
https://6abc.com/mercy-hospital-gunman-what-we-know/4725117/

So in what idiotic world does a person with a protection order out against him get a permit to carry a damn gun? Yeah, I know, the answer will be that it's the idiotic world of Chicago, but isn't the common gripe that they have some of the strictest gun laws around and still manage to kill each other? There were red flags all over the place about this guy, but not only was he still allowed to purchase weapons he was permitted to carry them in public.

Like I asked in the other thread, does anybody think this guy should have been allowed to own a gun?
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #81 on: Today at 01:53:13 PM »
I echoed your question in that thread and expanded on it with my thoughts. Never developed in to a discussion though.

Wasn't sure where to put this. WA passed a pretty comprehensive initiative about gun ownership (look it up, I-1639), and King County passed the below. The Warning Sign deal is a bit silly, but whatever. I am not a gun owner so did not read through the epic text of the initiative, but is already on the way to the courts, not necessarily because of the text but how it was presented "They argued that initiative language printed on the back of petition forms was too small and that it did not include customary strike-throughs to show how current law would be changed. State law requires initiative petitions to include a “readable, full, true and correct” copy of the measure." Hard to say how it will go if it makes it to the State SC. I imagine them saying "Well, the people voted for this, and we like it, so it stands" but it's too early to say.

http://www.kirklandreporter.com/news/king-county-approves-gun-warning-sign-requirement/
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Online El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #82 on: Today at 02:28:10 PM »
I echoed your question in that thread and expanded on it with my thoughts. Never developed in to a discussion though.

Wasn't sure where to put this. WA passed a pretty comprehensive initiative about gun ownership (look it up, I-1639), and King County passed the below. The Warning Sign deal is a bit silly, but whatever. I am not a gun owner so did not read through the epic text of the initiative, but is already on the way to the courts, not necessarily because of the text but how it was presented "They argued that initiative language printed on the back of petition forms was too small and that it did not include customary strike-throughs to show how current law would be changed. State law requires initiative petitions to include a “readable, full, true and correct” copy of the measure." Hard to say how it will go if it makes it to the State SC. I imagine them saying "Well, the people voted for this, and we like it, so it stands" but it's too early to say.

http://www.kirklandreporter.com/news/king-county-approves-gun-warning-sign-requirement/
The warning sign thing is a bit silly, but some of the other stuff is pretty reasonable. I have no doubt it'll get challenged, but whatever. The authorization to purchase a semi-automatic long gun is actually something I through out a while back. I'd limit it to large caliber ammunition, though. I thought it a fair compromise (though our boss in Fairfax would certainly have it nixed).

With regards to what the gun store owner said, I'd now change the required warning signs to read "The odds of your weapon being used in crime, accidental shooting, or suicide are far greater than the odds of you using it to kill a bad guy."  :biggrin:
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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