Author Topic: Guns are Icky  (Read 2641 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Guns are Icky
« on: December 06, 2017, 05:46:54 PM »
So the house passed a so-called reciprocity bill today demonstrating, yet again, that state's rights only matter if you like the right in question. If you don't that's when you get Uncle Sam to compel them otherwise. As everybody knows I'm a gun rights guy, and I've driven across country on several occasions with a weapon on me. Try to figure out what to do when crossing borders into  Colorado, Wyoming, and South Dakota sometime. It's a bitch. One mile you have to keep it concealed and then the next it must  to be in plain sight at all times. Eventually I gave up and kept my gun stashed in the back, and relied upon my being a law abiding white guy driving in republican states as a fallback plan. I fully get the desire from the right for reciprocity, and support it whole-heartedly. That ain't what we got, though.

Reciprocity is when two kids on the playground enter into an agreement whereby "you show me yours and I'll show you mine." What the house passed is effectively one kid whipping it out, waiving it around, and yelling "hah, suck it bitch!" There is no agreement. There's compulsion. Proper reciprocity already existed all over the country. It just wasn't universal because some states want stricter requirements than others. If my state commands that a license holder actually be able to hit the broad side of a barn with their weapon, it'd be willing to accept permits from other states with comparable requirements. And if another state comes along and requires no more than a pulse and one working eye to get a permit, it's probably not going to accept theirs. Sounds pretty damned reasonable to me. Apparently not to our NRA overseers, though.

Which leads to another point, how on Earth could this be constitutional? Properly constitutional, not the Clarence Thomas "sounds good to me" definition. Reasonable restrictions on gun ownership are "presumptively lawful." As the dead justice Scalia put it, we find what the minimum constitutional right is and everything above that is up to the States. Seems to me that the minimum hasn't included the absolute right to carry a weapon in public for upwards of 150 years. There's also 18 USC ß926A (peaceable journey) which has already established federal accommodation for transporting weapons across state lines. It's a royal pain in the ass, but the end result is that you already can travel with weapons, even in New York. You just can't have it sitting your lap like your beloved puppy.

So in summary, fuck the NRA and the scumbag representatives they own. I started a new thread because historically all gun discussion has taken place in threads about kill-crazy rampages, and rather than digging up one of those I decided to just start a proper second amendment thread.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 08:33:47 AM »
I'm a big states rights guy and I don't like when the Federal Government decides that they can just overrule whatever law they want that a state passes. This is no different. However, I will say that having been a conceal carry permit holder for 10 years now I think that there should be some legislation or law, test....something that I can do to validate my competency with my weapon and some sort of test that I can take to prove I'm not bat shit insane that would allow me to carry wherever I want.

My major gripe right now is professional sports arenas. I can't speak for other cities but in St. Louis you are a sitting duck when walking back to your vehicle from either the Cardinals or Blues games. The criminals know it and year after year there are a dozens of robberies and assaults happening to folks walking back to their vehicles.

Same can be said for the last few concerts I've attended in St. Louis. Wanded at the door. I get the need to do that at the arenas and at these venues. I do. But, I think there should be a next level of certification for those of us who would A.) Pay for it and B.) Want it.....available so we aren't denied our right to defend ourselves. Because in my eyes that's exactly what is happening. I'm being told by the Cardinals, Blues and these music venues that I don't have the right to protect myself or my loved ones when I choose to go to their venue.

So, I simply don't go anymore. Haven't been to a Cardinal or Blues game in years since they instituted metal detectors at every entrance and the only two concerts I've seen in St. Louis were HAKEN and Dream Theater but I made the choice to 'risk' it because I really wanted to see them.

But as far as your OP EB......it's like you said their just pandering to the folks who are lining their pockets...cough cough NRA..cough...cough. Peaceable travel is already a law so that negates the need for this to allow across border movement and.....lets be honest.....conceal carry is 'conceal' carry. As long as your an obedient citizen and not walking down the street twirling your gun on your finger.....you can conceal a weapon and go pretty much anywhere you want to. As long as there are no metal detectors.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 08:57:06 AM »
I think your problem here is that the odds of you getting mugged and needing your gun to defend yourself are quite a bit lower than the odds of a drunk Cardinals fan with a CCW going off his nut. Brouhahas at sporting events aren't exactly a rarity. Search YT for "drunk sports fan St Louis" and look at some of the results.

This was my favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJgwqSGNCLk
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 09:01:57 AM »
I'm being told by the Cardinals, Blues and these music venues that I don't have the right to protect myself or my loved ones when I choose to go to their venue.

Not a gun guy, as I said in another thread, and I don't want to be overly judgmental of your thoughts, but are we really at the point in this country where we can't go watch a bunch of Canucks slap a puck around with a stick without fearing for our lives? Is this America or the Middle East?
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Online Chino

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 09:33:04 AM »
I think your problem here is that the odds of you getting mugged and needing your gun to defend yourself are quite a bit lower than the odds of a drunk Cardinals fan with a CCW going off his nut. Brouhahas at sporting events aren't exactly a rarity. Search YT for "drunk sports fan St Louis" and look at some of the results.

This was my favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJgwqSGNCLk

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I agree with your sentiment, Gary, but there are too many drunken idiots in sports arenas for me to feel safe with them carrying a loaded gun. I could maybe get behind a program where if you were carrying, you get a bracelet that can only be removed on your way out of the venue that lets vendors know that you are not allowed to drink. For a parking lot mugging, a good can of mace would be just as effective and wouldn't accidentally kill someone in the process if the person being assaulted fucks up.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2017, 09:36:26 AM »
I'm being told by the Cardinals, Blues and these music venues that I don't have the right to protect myself or my loved ones when I choose to go to their venue.

Not a gun guy, as I said in another thread, and I don't want to be overly judgmental of your thoughts, but are we really at the point in this country where we can't go watch a bunch of Canucks slap a puck around with a stick without fearing for our lives? Is this America or the Middle East?

It's certainly not the wild west but given the current state of affairs I'd rather have the option of protecting myself from a disgruntled buss boy who was fired from a restaurant returning to get revenge or whatever/whoever it is deciding they are going to shoot up some place.

Eliminating my chance to defend myself and/or my family simply does not sit well with me.


I think your problem here is that the odds of you getting mugged and needing your gun to defend yourself are quite a bit lower than the odds of a drunk Cardinals fan with a CCW going off his nut. Brouhahas at sporting events aren't exactly a rarity. Search YT for "drunk sports fan St Louis" and look at some of the results.

This is probably true. But, I'd rather have my gun on me and not need it than encounter and instance where my gun could have saved my life or someone I care and love's life but it's locked up in my car 800 yards away because I was restricted in carrying it.

and that video was hiarious  :lol   deep baby laughs like that are awesome also.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2017, 09:37:25 AM »
I think your problem here is that the odds of you getting mugged and needing your gun to defend yourself are quite a bit lower than the odds of a drunk Cardinals fan with a CCW going off his nut. Brouhahas at sporting events aren't exactly a rarity. Search YT for "drunk sports fan St Louis" and look at some of the results.

This was my favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJgwqSGNCLk

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I agree with your sentiment, Gary, but there are too many drunken idiots in sports arenas for me to feel safe with them carrying a loaded gun. I could maybe get behind a program where if you were carrying, you get a bracelet that can only be removed on your way out of the venue that lets vendors know that you are not allowed to drink. For a parking lot mugging, a good can of mace would be just as effective and wouldn't accidentally kill someone in the process if the person being assaulted fucks up.

I get pretty hammered at sporting events and I don't buy their overpriced, nasty tasting beer. I drink up in the parking lot and possibly take some inside with me.

Also, they're not going to let you take a can of mace inside, either.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 09:38:41 AM »
This is probably true. But, I'd rather have my gun on me and not need it than encounter and instance where my gun could have saved my life or someone I care and love's life but it's locked up in my car 800 yards away because I was restricted in carrying it.

and that video was hiarious  :lol   deep baby laughs like that are awesome also.
The issue isn't whether or not you should be allowed to carry. The issue is whether or not the guy in the video should. If you can, he can.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 09:42:13 AM »
I think your problem here is that the odds of you getting mugged and needing your gun to defend yourself are quite a bit lower than the odds of a drunk Cardinals fan with a CCW going off his nut. Brouhahas at sporting events aren't exactly a rarity. Search YT for "drunk sports fan St Louis" and look at some of the results.

This was my favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJgwqSGNCLk

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I agree with your sentiment, Gary, but there are too many drunken idiots in sports arenas for me to feel safe with them carrying a loaded gun. I could maybe get behind a program where if you were carrying, you get a bracelet that can only be removed on your way out of the venue that lets vendors know that you are not allowed to drink. For a parking lot mugging, a good can of mace would be just as effective and wouldn't accidentally kill someone in the process if the person being assaulted fucks up.


Like I said....I totally get that. But if you're carrying a gun lawfully then you should not be drinking anyway, period.

This past summer a couple retired military men petitioned for a license to have a mobile gun storage van they could park outside arenas in St. Louis:

http://fox2now.com/2016/06/29/mobile-gun-safe-could-be-up-and-running-by-july/

But they were denied the permit:

http://fox2now.com/2016/07/15/entrepreneur-says-permit-process-shut-down-his-mobile-gun-locker-business-downtown/

I think this would be a good middle ground solution and would immediately remedy mine and others concerns.
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Online Chino

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 09:42:17 AM »
I think your problem here is that the odds of you getting mugged and needing your gun to defend yourself are quite a bit lower than the odds of a drunk Cardinals fan with a CCW going off his nut. Brouhahas at sporting events aren't exactly a rarity. Search YT for "drunk sports fan St Louis" and look at some of the results.

This was my favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJgwqSGNCLk

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I agree with your sentiment, Gary, but there are too many drunken idiots in sports arenas for me to feel safe with them carrying a loaded gun. I could maybe get behind a program where if you were carrying, you get a bracelet that can only be removed on your way out of the venue that lets vendors know that you are not allowed to drink. For a parking lot mugging, a good can of mace would be just as effective and wouldn't accidentally kill someone in the process if the person being assaulted fucks up.

I get pretty hammered at sporting events and I don't buy their overpriced, nasty tasting beer. I drink up in the parking lot and possibly take some inside with me.

Also, they're not going to let you take a can of mace inside, either.

Fair points.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 09:45:19 AM »
This is probably true. But, I'd rather have my gun on me and not need it than encounter and instance where my gun could have saved my life or someone I care and love's life but it's locked up in my car 800 yards away because I was restricted in carrying it.

and that video was hiarious  :lol   deep baby laughs like that are awesome also.
The issue isn't whether or not you should be allowed to carry. The issue is whether or not the guy in the video should. If you can, he can.

That just comes down to being responsible. I haven't seen many stories come across where a drunken sports goer's gun accidentally fires or whatever. Most if not all the people I know who CCW when they are drinking either do not carry their gun or keep it locked up. I think the majority of people who CCW think responsibly like that...again, that's just based off the community of people I know.

But again...I understand where you, Brian and Chris ar coming from.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2017, 09:46:36 AM »
Sometimes I feel like I live in a different country where people feel the need to have a gun on them at all times.  I just don't understand that mentality at all.  I am for gun rights (so I am not arguing against that), but unless you've unfortunately had some tragic event happen to you, I don't know why you feel so uncomfortable in this country.

As for the law, I don't like it because I have a bit more conservative values with the idea of less government and states rights, something I thought this current government would believe as well, but clearly it's selective. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2017, 09:48:07 AM »
I get pretty hammered at sporting events and I don't buy their overpriced, nasty tasting beer. I drink up in the parking lot and possibly take some inside with me.

That's me.   At UConn games here in CT, it's $12.00 for a 16 oz. Coors Light.  Fuck that noise.   $12.00 gets me a 12-pack of same. 

I'm a gun rights guy as well, but I don't really have a problem with "Time Place and Manner" restrictions, especially since there are more effective means of providing the same protection.   The solver at the St. Louis sporting events is not arming the fanbase, but putting in lights and providing greater security in that hemisphere.   Given the types of terrorist attacks we've seen, that's prudent anyway.


Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2017, 10:04:32 AM »
Sometimes I feel like I live in a different country where people feel the need to have a gun on them at all times.  I just don't understand that mentality at all.  I am for gun rights (so I am not arguing against that), but unless you've unfortunately had some tragic event happen to you, I don't know why you feel so uncomfortable in this country.

I don't feel uncomfortable and am not living in fear. I view it no differently than why I pay $109 every month for my wife and I's car insurance. Most likely will never use it...but IF the time comes when I need it I'll have it. That's it. I view it as a responsibility as a Husband and Father. I regularly fire my weapon to make sure I'm as competent as I can be, and if my gun is not on me it's in a safe. all my weapons are safely locked up.

My initial point was I particularly don't like when the option for me to carry my weapon is taken away from me. I'm being denied that chance to protect myself and my family IF something were to happen. And that's a big IF. As EB said, the odds on me personally ever being in a situation where I was forced to draw and use my gun are very slim. But I don't want to not have that choice.
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Offline vtgrad

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 01:02:19 PM »
I'm being told by the Cardinals, Blues and these music venues that I don't have the right to protect myself or my loved ones when I choose to go to their venue.

Not a gun guy, as I said in another thread, and I don't want to be overly judgmental of your thoughts, but are we really at the point in this country where we can't go watch a bunch of Canucks slap a puck around with a stick without fearing for our lives? Is this America or the Middle East?

Coming back to that, during my time in the Middle East (Israel, Jordan, Egypt), I never once felt unsafe... even during my detainment (in another thread I tell the story; I was profiled because of my looks by the Israeli military).  And looking back on that, two days after I returned to the states, the border crossing that my party used to go from Israel to Egypt was bombed... go figure.

On the other hand, I can think of many, many times here in the states (after concerts, sporting events, etc) that I've felt a little hair raise on the back of my neck walking through certain places (yeah, I'm looking at you Baltimore) and after having been approached by other bystanders in my vicinity with requests and suggestions of where I should and shouldn't be.  I will say that roughly half of those times I've been armed.

It's not necessarily about fearing for your life I don't think, it's about being prepared for the unthinkable.  The 6-P's.

I'll have to read the legislation before I can comment on it.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2017, 03:26:35 PM »
Surprised to hear you chaps across the pond can still drink in sports stadia. It's been all but outlawed at elite football ('soccer') games over here, due to the sport's inherent tribalism and hooliganism. The result has been fans getting plastered before the games, such as this magnificent human specimen right here at last week's Sunderland-Reading match (my mate was there):

https://deadspin.com/sunderland-fan-explains-that-he-did-not-drunkenly-shit-1821012484

And I want to give a shout-out to the British police here, this is why they're alright. They took to Facebook to back up the kid's defense that he only took a sit-down piss, not a shit. So it was ok:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/04/police-back-trouserless-sunderland-fans-claim-he-did-not-defecate-at-his-seat-7130499/
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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2017, 03:30:02 PM »
Surprised to hear you chaps across the pond can still drink in sports stadiums. It's been all but outlawed at elite football ('soccer') games over here, due to the sport's inherent tribalism and hooliganism. The result has been fans getting plastered before the games, such as this magnificent human specimen right here at last weeks's Sunderland - Reading match (my mate was there):

https://deadspin.com/sunderland-fan-explains-that-he-did-not-drunkenly-shit-1821012484

And I want to give a shout out to the British police here, this is why they're alright. They took to Facebook to back up the kid's defense that he only took a sit-down piss, not a shit. So it was ok:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/04/police-back-trouserless-sunderland-fans-claim-he-did-not-defecate-at-his-seat-7130499/

It's interesting the idea of drinking at sporting events.  It's allowed at pretty much all of them except at College games held on college campus's.  And in those cases, people do as you mention, drink excessively before the game and enter completely shit faced.   I've done this myself.  There's been lots of talk about more colleges allowing drinking during the event since not allowing it has lead to lots of alcohol poisoning.  Plus might as well make some money since people are going to booze whether you try to stop it or not.   

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2017, 03:45:15 PM »
Drinking at sporting events is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever going to be outlawed.

And vtgrad, I didn't mean to disparage the Middle East (well, maybe a little). I can't say I've ever felt the slightest bit unsafe anywhere I have ever been in the past 20 years where it remotely crossed my mind to carry a firearm.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2017, 03:56:17 PM »
Nobody would go to games if they couldn't' get drunk. Most stadiums have family sections where no beer is served, but you're talking about a couple of small balcony sections seating <5% of the crowd. The only restrictions I know of were instituted by the leagues after the comically violent 10Ę beer night riot in Cleveland. I believe such beer promotions were banned at MLB games shortly thereafter. They still sell a shit-ton of beer, though.

Quote
After the Indians had managed to tie the game, a 19-year-old fan named Terry Yerkic ran onto the field and attempted to steal Texas outfielder Jeff Burroughs' cap. Confronting the fan, Burroughs tripped. Thinking that Burroughs had been attacked, Texas manager Billy Martin charged onto the field with his players right behind, some wielding bats. A large number of intoxicated fans Ė some armed with knives, chains, and portions of stadium seats that they had torn apart Ė surged onto the field, and others hurled bottles from the stands. Hundreds of fans surrounded the outnumbered Rangers.

Realizing that the Rangers' lives might be in danger, Cleveland manager Ken Aspromonte ordered his players to grab bats and help the Rangers, attacking the team's own fans in the process. Rioters began throwing steel folding chairs, and Cleveland relief pitcher Tom Hilgendorf was hit in the head by one of them. Hargrove, after subduing one rioter in a fistfight, had to fight another on his way back to the Texas dugout. The two teams retreated off the field through the dugouts in groups, with players protecting each other



There's also a pretty amusing documentary on YT about Disco Demolition Night. More drunken baseball fans tearing up a stadium.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2017, 07:52:45 AM »
Surprised to hear you chaps across the pond can still drink in sports stadia. It's been all but outlawed at elite football ('soccer') games over here, due to the sport's inherent tribalism and hooliganism. The result has been fans getting plastered before the games, such as this magnificent human specimen right here at last week's Sunderland-Reading match (my mate was there):

https://deadspin.com/sunderland-fan-explains-that-he-did-not-drunkenly-shit-1821012484

And I want to give a shout-out to the British police here, this is why they're alright. They took to Facebook to back up the kid's defense that he only took a sit-down piss, not a shit. So it was ok:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/04/police-back-trouserless-sunderland-fans-claim-he-did-not-defecate-at-his-seat-7130499/

For some reason, I found this very funny:

"In a Facebook post this morning he said: ĎIím so regretful but I canít remember any of it at all. That was me itís real Iím so regretful but I canít remember any of it at all and for the record I didnít actually have a shit. ĎI honestly didnít have a shit. The club even released a statement saying there was nothing wrong with the chair.í"


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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2017, 10:55:29 AM »
Drinking at sporting events is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever going to be outlawed.

And vtgrad, I didn't mean to disparage the Middle East (well, maybe a little). I can't say I've ever felt the slightest bit unsafe anywhere I have ever been in the past 20 years where it remotely crossed my mind to carry a firearm.

I didn't take it as you disparaging the Middle East at all (honestly, wouldn't matter if I did  :biggrin:)... it's a valid opinion that part of the world is violent, because it is violent.  I guess my point was more about how well prepared the citizenry is in the Mid East for random violence on a large scale and how ill-prepared we (the US citizenry) are by comparison.

Regarding drinking at collegiate events: I don't ever remember being explicitly told that we could not bring drinks into Lane Stadium while I was a student... and everyone around me had drinks.  Hell, I never got out of there without getting some sort of alcohol spilled on me.  Those restrictions (and there are printed restrictions and I assume there always have been) are likely much, much more heavily enforced now then they were when I was there (98-03).  When I drank, I was only a casual drinker and even I always had an airline bottle of Jack with me in the stadium, though not in plain sight.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2017, 11:10:38 AM »
Drinking at sporting events is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever going to be outlawed.

And vtgrad, I didn't mean to disparage the Middle East (well, maybe a little). I can't say I've ever felt the slightest bit unsafe anywhere I have ever been in the past 20 years where it remotely crossed my mind to carry a firearm.

I didn't take it as you disparaging the Middle East at all (honestly, wouldn't matter if I did  :biggrin:)... it's a valid opinion that part of the world is violent, because it is violent.  I guess my point was more about how well prepared the citizenry is in the Mid East for random violence on a large scale and how ill-prepared we (the US citizenry) are by comparison.

Yeah, not sure why I would think the ME is a violent place.  :laugh:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/08/middleeast/jerusalem-trump-friday-prayers-protests-intl/index.html

vtgrad, I was at UVa in 94-96. Couldn't handle the pretentiousness, humidity, and most importantly the course load so dropped out before I could flunk out.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Adami

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2017, 11:14:06 AM »
Having lived in Israel for several years, at no point did I feel unsafe.


Though I knew when to avoid certain places because of increased violence, and I wasn't allowed to go to The West Bank or any other occupied territories besides Jerusalem.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2017, 11:18:24 AM »
Sounds like Paradise  :)  Kidding aside, I know you are Jewish (at least I think you are) but do not know anything about your beliefs beyond that, so please do not feel I am disparaging your culture in any way.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Adami

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2017, 11:19:45 AM »
Sounds like Paradise  :)  Kidding aside, I know you are Jewish (at least I think you are) but do not know anything about your beliefs beyond that, so please do not feel I am disparaging your culture in any way.

Too late. Expect Mossad to be taking you within the hour.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2017, 11:40:51 AM »
Can you at least send Ziva from NCIS?
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Adami

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2017, 11:42:06 AM »
Ah yes, Cote de Pablo. The most Israeli person ever.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2017, 11:47:28 AM »
 :rollin
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2017, 01:09:48 PM »
Ah yes, Cote de Pablo. The most Israeli person ever.

It passed muster with me, but then again, I have low standards. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2017, 01:10:32 PM »
Having lived in Israel for several years, at no point did I feel unsafe.


Though I knew when to avoid certain places because of increased violence, and I wasn't allowed to go to The West Bank or any other occupied territories besides Jerusalem.

Why weren't you "allowed"?  Passport?  Nationality?  Prudence on the part of whoever brought you there?

Offline Adami

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2017, 01:12:31 PM »
Having lived in Israel for several years, at no point did I feel unsafe.


Though I knew when to avoid certain places because of increased violence, and I wasn't allowed to go to The West Bank or any other occupied territories besides Jerusalem.

Why weren't you "allowed"?  Passport?  Nationality?  Prudence on the part of whoever brought you there?

Israel doesn't allow citizens into those areas unless they're settlements. I refuse to go to settlements on moral grounds.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2017, 01:16:08 PM »
Ah yes, Cote de Pablo. The most Israeli person ever.

It passed muster with me, but then again, I have low standards.

I mean, it'd be like saying inspector Clouseau did a good enough American impression.

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2017, 01:23:06 PM »
Ah yes, Cote de Pablo. The most Israeli person ever.

It passed muster with me, but then again, I have low standards.

I mean, it'd be like saying inspector Clouseau did a good enough American impression.
I don't know who this Cote de Pablo is, but Peter Sellers did probably the best American impression I've ever heard. When I first realized he was Merkin Muffly I was astonished.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2017, 01:25:11 PM »
Ah yes, Cote de Pablo. The most Israeli person ever.

It passed muster with me, but then again, I have low standards.

I mean, it'd be like saying inspector Clouseau did a good enough American impression.
I don't know who this Cote de Pablo is, but Peter Sellers did probably the best American impression I've ever heard. When I first realized he was Merkin Muffly I was astonished.

Peter Sellers, not Clouseau.  :P
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Guns are Icky
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2017, 01:29:02 PM »
When I first realized he was Merkin Muffly I was astonished.

Boy if you Google image search Merkin Muffly, you get quite the results!
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'