Author Topic: The root of what ails politics  (Read 286 times)

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Offline jingle.boy

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The root of what ails politics
« on: March 15, 2019, 06:42:40 AM »
On Adami's suggestion, it's time to open a new thread on this matter, in an effort to try and minimize the derailment of other discussion topics/threads. 

And apologies in creating a big-assed quote pyramid

Cool. All valid but not related points to what I was originally trying to bring up. And while you're not a mod and don't have the power to actually shut it down, you've successfully derailed the convo to such an extent that it shut it down. Which is what you usually do.

We get it. You've posted your position several dozen times by this point. No one is arguing with you. At least that I can see. If you want to start a thread dedicated to that position, have at it, but please stop hijacking every Trump convo with the exact same point. In fact, the point you're arguing is EXACTLY what I said I wasn't saying....in the post you quoted.

I don't disagree with you, it's just not what we're talking about right now. And honestly, I'm tempted to just stop posting in these threads all together because it's becoming exhausting having every Trump convo derailed into a repetition of the exact same (and very valid) point you make over and over again. Like I said, start a dedicated thread to that. It would be a great convo to have, just not in the middle of other convos that get pushed aside for it.

You know?

Stads... it's like your tactic is similar to what Dave eluded to as Trump's tactic with "Fake News".  As Adami states, you repeatedly - REPEATEDLY - draw discussions back to the same points, the one in question now being the inevitability of Trump over the path of the last 15-20 years (I'm sincerely stunned you didn't reference Clinton/shades/sax/Arsenio).  You've done it so much that we expect it, and - again as Adami states - it is stifling actual discussions, with Adami even suggesting he's contemplated abandoning the discussion at all.

So pretty please, with sugar on top... stop bringing up this fucking point as a counter argument to (or worse yet, a justification of) Trump's bad behaviour.

We.
All.
Get.
It.

Deeply respectfully, but

I.
Don't.
Agree.

And look, it's a bullshit position to say "I'm going to say my piece, but you, Stadler, you keep offering yours, I'm just going to take my ball and go home."

Well, I'll do that for you.  You all keep Making fun of Trump and His Tweets and funny CAPITALIZATIONS, and blaming Faux News for all the ills of society, and let's check back in in 24 months and see where we're at.   You think this is fun?  You think I have nothing better to do than repeat myself?   How do you think I feel seeing the same tired nonsense about a news show that I don't even watch, while the constant and incessant bombardment of Democratic framing goes on and on, unremarked?  I can't watch an awards show (the one before the Oscars; Golden Globes?), watch the news (I watch CNN mostly), listen to music (too many to name), go to a concert (the Boss), play HQ trivia (especially Scott Rogowski), or watch my favorite fantasy TV show (Supergirl)  without hearing about how fucking evil Trump is (all real world, documentable examples).  Hell, I went to a business meeting yesterday at a contractors office and while we're waiting the receptionist went off on how ridiculous "this guy in the White House" is.     

So please, if you all "get it", I'm not seeing it.  But out of respect for people that I like, I'm done.  You have your echo chamber, I'm going to go discuss philosophy and morals with Dave, and send shitty songs to TAC and Evermind in their roulettes.

Echo Chamber??  Man, it sometimes comes across that you are the one launching and reverberating the 'echoes'.  It's been a long time since anyone here has gone off on Trump or gotten real nitpicky about his truly meaningless and chlldlike shit (CAPITALIZATIONS, spelling errors), or spread virtual hi-five's over what Meryl Streep or Don Lemon has to say.  I saw only casual discussion on the 'Milenia body-double' and 'Tim Apple' shit.  Hell, I even recently commented (I forget the issue) that the news was making something out of nothing on some meaningless bullshit.

Look, you've gotten me to a point of recognition that nitpicking every little thing, including every little lie, isn't productive.  Though, one might suggest that if THAT is the new norm (ignoring/accepting small transgressions), that's a problem too.  But, I digress.  Most of the people HERE (DTF P/R) get and understand your point - and hell, most I think agree with it.  So, there's no need to take other discussions (as was done about Adami's post democrats hate jews, are anti-Israel, and are pro-infanticide?".  There was no need to take that down the 'Trump was an inevitability' path.

That was my only point. 

But to your point... if most are voicing all these concerns and beliefs, then perhaps it's a real thing?  Inevitable or not, maybe some have realized that politics has passed the tipping point, and are trying (albeit ineffectively) to deliver a message that it's time for the pendulum to come back closer to middle.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2019, 07:21:04 AM »


But to your point... if most are voicing all these concerns and beliefs, then perhaps it's a real thing?  Inevitable or not, maybe some have realized that politics has passed the tipping point, and are trying (albeit ineffectively) to deliver a message that it's time for the pendulum to come back closer to middle.

I hope you are right, but when you consider how far to the right many Trump supporters, combined with how AOC is trying to drag the Democratic party to the far left, even talking about how moderate Democrats need to be ousted (slight paraphrasing), I fear it is just going to get worse.   :( :(

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2019, 07:52:08 AM »
My frustration isn't with pointing out the idiotic things trump does/says. My issue is with the complete and total hypocrisy and one sided reporting that the bulk of the media continuously spouts out.....the fact that each and every day that we learn more and more about what the corrupt dozen or so FBI agents and Congressmen were doing with this whole made up collusion crap.....with the total belief that Clinton was going to win and when she didn't they were caught with their pants to their ankles. They never thought their methods or truthfulness of their claims were going to be questioned because they believed she'd win and it'd all be swept under the table.

trump is trump....I don't think there's any question that the dudes just an a$$.....but the one thing that he says a lot that is actually true as more and more comes out is that the entire russia collusion deal was and is a 'witch hunt' as he says. This casting a broad net in the hopes that they can find something....ANYTHING....to pin to the guy all because they're still sour at the fact Hillary lost and he won.....is ridiculous....and if that's the way they're going to do it then every president from this point forward should have every aspect of their lives going back as far as you can, investigated....non stop...until something, anything is found against them.

What's funny is the more and more the Dems and these folks keep starting this and that investigation all it's doing is galvanizing his supporters and pi$$ing most everyone else off....because it looks petty....it looks childish....and it's going to cost them another loss in 2020. Despite what the media is reporting the large portion of Americans really don't give a $hit. The only people that care are a small percentage of folks who follow politics and the still grieving Dems.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2019, 08:02:39 AM »
Gary, your point is very interesting and something I think about....sometimes.

I am looking at it from a psychological perspective however. It seems, and I could be wrong, that people hold Democrats to a higher standard than Republicans. And that could be because Democrats tell people to. But I see "Trump is Trump" meaning, it is what it is, we can't expect more. But when Democrats do what Republicans are doing, it's extremely disappointing and off putting to us, yet when Republicans do it....well that's just the way the world works, we can't expect more. You know? I dunno. Just something I've noticed.

"Hillary is no better than Trump.....so I'm voting for Trump" feels like cognitive dissonance to me. Not that they should vote for Hillary (I didn't) but the logic just seems interesting to me.
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Offline sylvan

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 08:27:29 AM »
But isn't that the crux of what a lot of people are saying about the Dem side? It's the hypocrisy that gets pointed out. That they say one thing and do another is very off putting. Yes, it's just as infuriating to me to hear hypocritical moralizing from the religious Right (as Dave points out quite well with Fox News). But I mostly agree with Stadler on the point of a full on platform position of the Dems, which (imo) is based entirely on moral standards, but somehow ALSO trying to play the same games and unethical behavior as they condemn in the Reps.

Again... can people just keeps it real?  :hat

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 08:35:04 AM »
Gary, your point is very interesting and something I think about....sometimes.

I am looking at it from a psychological perspective however. It seems, and I could be wrong, that people hold Democrats to a higher standard than Republicans. And that could be because Democrats tell people to. But I see "Trump is Trump" meaning, it is what it is, we can't expect more. But when Democrats do what Republicans are doing, it's extremely disappointing and off putting to us, yet when Republicans do it....well that's just the way the world works, we can't expect more. You know? I dunno. Just something I've noticed.

"Hillary is no better than Trump.....so I'm voting for Trump" feels like cognitive dissonance to me. Not that they should vote for Hillary (I didn't) but the logic just seems interesting to me.

I guess what I mean by 'trump is trump' is that it's not like he put on some facade during the primaries and then the election cycle....got elected....then BOOM....all of a sudden he's what he is. The dude hasn't changed one bit since day one. To be 'shocked' by this or that thing that he says or does or to learn he shagged some playboy models and porn stars....that shouldn't be shocking or upsetting or 'news'. It's never been a question of 'who' this guy is.

Like I said....I'm more ticked at the constant never ending digging and probing and prodding to find something....anything on trump....just to be able to say 'AHA...SEE...I TOLD YOU!!'  You could literally do that to any congressman/congresswoman......past/future president and dig deep enough to find a crime. The difference is trump seems to be hated by so many people that it's all of a sudden OK to just rifle through someones life without just cause. Because even without the Mueller report from just what we've learned from Judicial Watch and the congressional sessions.....dozens of high ranking FBI officials and some Dems decided that they were going to take down trump no matter what...even when there was nothing there. The only true batch of 'smoke' they uncovered were from the fires they lit.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 08:38:27 AM »

I am looking at it from a psychological perspective however. It seems, and I could be wrong, that people hold Democrats to a higher standard than Republicans. And that could be because Democrats tell people to. 

I think it is, because the Democrats always take the "we are better than you" moral high ground.

"We care about immigrants; Republicans don't."
"We care about womens' rights; Republicans don't."
"Republicans are racist; we are not."
etc.

And the election of Trump has emboldened Democrats even more to think they are better than Republicans or anyone who isn't a Democrat, for that matter. Independents like myself often get thrown into that basket as well because we voted for a 3rd party candidate, and we have been told that anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is to blame for Trump.  It gets old, and like Gary said, it pisses people off.

Offline Adami

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2019, 08:40:19 AM »
I don't disagree with some of that, but I disagree with the generalizing of it to the point of ignoring specifics. Yes, you can find something wrong with everybody, but that doesn't negate what we find with Trump or make it less bad, somehow. You know?

I mean, if I go on someone's computer and find videos of children being murdered (extreme example, I know) they can't say "Yea, but I bet you have stuff on your computer that isn't great." It's not all equal.

I dunno, I guess I also live by Stan Lee's statement of "with great power comes great responsibility." I hold people of higher power to higher levels of responsibility than others. So what random people do/say isn't quite as impactful as what the President says or does. Not to say corrupt politicians shouldn't be dealt with, they very much should.

Also I think we.....all of us.....need to move on from this Russian collusion thing. It was as much BS as Obama being a Nigerian Muslim terrorist or whatever Trump was implying beforehand. There are plenty of other things to be upset/concerned with yet people get really stuck on that. It might be because Trump makes it all about collusion, pointing out every day on Twitter than there's no signs of collusion. Why does he assume that's all people are looking into?
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Offline Adami

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2019, 08:41:19 AM »

I am looking at it from a psychological perspective however. It seems, and I could be wrong, that people hold Democrats to a higher standard than Republicans. And that could be because Democrats tell people to. 

I think it is, because the Democrats always take the "we are better than you" moral high ground.

"We care about immigrants; Republicans don't."
"We care about womens' rights; Republicans don't."
"Republicans are racist; we are not."
etc.

And the election of Trump has emboldened Democrats even more to think they are better than Republicans or anyone who isn't a Democrat, for that matter. Independents like myself often get thrown into that basket as well because we voted for a 3rd party candidate, and we have been told that anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is to blame for Trump.  It gets old, and like Gary said, it pisses people off.

But aren't Trump and republicans doing the same thing?

"Democrats hate Jews, we don't"
"Democrats hate Israel, we don't"
"Democrats are pro crime, we're not"
"Democrats are pro infanticide, we're not"


I'm not discounting your feelings, they are there for a very good reason. I just don't think it's just that though. I think it's something more visceral or instinctual.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2019, 08:47:29 AM »
Gary, your point is very interesting and something I think about....sometimes.

I am looking at it from a psychological perspective however. It seems, and I could be wrong, that people hold Democrats to a higher standard than Republicans. And that could be because Democrats tell people to. But I see "Trump is Trump" meaning, it is what it is, we can't expect more. But when Democrats do what Republicans are doing, it's extremely disappointing and off putting to us, yet when Republicans do it....well that's just the way the world works, we can't expect more. You know? I dunno. Just something I've noticed.

"Hillary is no better than Trump.....so I'm voting for Trump" feels like cognitive dissonance to me. Not that they should vote for Hillary (I didn't) but the logic just seems interesting to me.

I guess what I mean by 'trump is trump' is that it's not like he put on some facade during the primaries and then the election cycle....got elected....then BOOM....all of a sudden he's what he is. The dude hasn't changed one bit since day one. To be 'shocked' by this or that thing that he says or does or to learn he shagged some playboy models and porn stars....that shouldn't be shocking or upsetting or 'news'. It's never been a question of 'who' this guy is.
And yet the people who actually swung the election for him were most certainly hoping he would change into somebody even remotely presidential. He takes great pride, to the delight of his minions, in being the anti-president. This screws us both on the world stage by burning bridges and alienating allies, and at home by making arrogant incompetence the accepted norm of the presidency. You're probably right about 2020, but largely because the left will probably insist on trying to out-crazy Trump, which is not possible. I have doubts that they'll (either party) nominate a sensible candidate who might actually swing things back to some sense of normality.


Quote
Like I said....I'm more ticked at the constant never ending digging and probing and prodding to find something....anything on trump....just to be able to say 'AHA...SEE...I TOLD YOU!!'  You could literally do that to any congressman/congresswoman......past/future president and dig deep enough to find a crime. The difference is trump seems to be hated by so many people that it's all of a sudden OK to just rifle through someones life without just cause. Because even without the Mueller report from just what we've learned from Judicial Watch and the congressional sessions.....dozens of high ranking FBI officials and some Dems decided that they were going to take down trump no matter what...even when there was nothing there. The only true batch of 'smoke' they uncovered were from the fires they lit.
This has been the norm for quite some time. It looks very similar to Whitewater to me. Though 25 years later if it terms out Trump got some head in the oval office people would just roll their eyes. It picked up steam with Obama, but the difference there was that they were loading the bong with lots of smaller "scandals" so they could keep the smoke up 24-7-365, rather than rolling it into one big garfer of a joint we could all puff on for a couple of years. The end result is essentially the same.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2019, 08:48:42 AM »

I am looking at it from a psychological perspective however. It seems, and I could be wrong, that people hold Democrats to a higher standard than Republicans. And that could be because Democrats tell people to. 

I think it is, because the Democrats always take the "we are better than you" moral high ground.

"We care about immigrants; Republicans don't."
"We care about womens' rights; Republicans don't."
"Republicans are racist; we are not."
etc.

And the election of Trump has emboldened Democrats even more to think they are better than Republicans or anyone who isn't a Democrat, for that matter. Independents like myself often get thrown into that basket as well because we voted for a 3rd party candidate, and we have been told that anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is to blame for Trump.  It gets old, and like Gary said, it pisses people off.

But aren't Trump and republicans doing the same thing?

"Democrats hate Jews, we don't"
"Democrats hate Israel, we don't"
"Democrats are pro crime, we're not"
"Democrats are pro infanticide, we're not"


I'm not discounting your feelings, they are there for a very good reason. I just don't think it's just that though. I think it's something more visceral or instinctual.

You might be right, and I agree that the GOP is just as guilty when it comes to playing the blame game; it just feels like the Democrats have more of a superiority complex ("I am right, and if you disagree with me, you are wrong and/or stupid.").

Honestly, I am not sure why anyone would want to be President of the United States anymore.

Clinton was torn to shreds for 8 years by the GOP and even impeached.
W. was torn to shreds for most of his 8 years (9/11 toned it down for a bit since we all came together for a short spell).
Obama was torn to shreds for 8 years by the GOP.
Trump has been torn to shreds for over 2 years now.

And there is no end in sight, and the really sad thing is, it probably would take another 9/11-type horrific disaster for this country to come together again, and even that would be fleeting yet again.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 08:49:07 AM »
I don't disagree with some of that, but I disagree with the generalizing of it to the point of ignoring specifics. Yes, you can find something wrong with everybody, but that doesn't negate what we find with Trump or make it less bad, somehow. You know?

I mean, if I go on someone's computer and find videos of children being murdered (extreme example, I know) they can't say "Yea, but I bet you have stuff on your computer that isn't great." It's not all equal.

I get that to an extent...but if they were to find something on trump from 15 years ago when he wasn't president or in politics.....that's a bit of BS in my opinion. He's probably been audited a million times given his business dealings so 'if' there were something there that's between trump and the IRS. And, I don't thing there's any doubt that if you dug deep enough your going to find a shady 'bribe' or something here and there on trump. But I also don't think that's has any bearing whatsoever on the initial mandate or whatever it was that is now coming out that was a load of poo about the 'collusion' that got all this started in the first place.

Outside of them finding out trump personally killed someone or tied a woman up and raped her.....anything they'd find from his taxes or past business dealings has nothing to do with anything about him being or becoming president....or falls anywhere near the boundaries of what the initial investigation. That's why like I said....for all the crap that trump spouts that I just roll my eyes at.....'witch hunt' isn't one of them.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2019, 08:50:04 AM »
So Kev, what you're saying is that if there could a regular event like 9/11, say every 5 or so years, that would be best? I'm down. I feel like if we bring Bart into it, we can get really creative. It can be like the Olympics. Different countries can compete in bids to be the cause.


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Offline Adami

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2019, 08:52:08 AM »
I don't disagree with some of that, but I disagree with the generalizing of it to the point of ignoring specifics. Yes, you can find something wrong with everybody, but that doesn't negate what we find with Trump or make it less bad, somehow. You know?

I mean, if I go on someone's computer and find videos of children being murdered (extreme example, I know) they can't say "Yea, but I bet you have stuff on your computer that isn't great." It's not all equal.

I get that to an extent...but if they were to find something on trump from 15 years ago when he wasn't president or in politics.....that's a bit of BS in my opinion. He's probably been audited a million times given his business dealings so 'if' there were something there that's between trump and the IRS. And, I don't thing there's any doubt that if you dug deep enough your going to find a shady 'bribe' or something here and there on trump. But I also don't think that's has any bearing whatsoever on the initial mandate or whatever it was that is now coming out that was a load of poo about the 'collusion' that got all this started in the first place.

Outside of them finding out trump personally killed someone or tied a woman up and raped her.....anything they'd find from his taxes or past business dealings has nothing to do with anything about him being or becoming president....or falls anywhere near the boundaries of what the initial investigation. That's why like I said....for all the crap that trump spouts that I just roll my eyes at.....'witch hunt' isn't one of them.

No, you're right. It seems to be the norm. Trump has this Russian BS. Obama had the whatever African country terrorist BS. It's all really pathetic.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2019, 08:52:13 AM »
And yet the people who actually swung the election for him were most certainly hoping he would change into somebody even remotely presidential.

I 100% fall into this category. I didn't think there'd be any way he'd keep the shtick going the entire time....it's actually graduated to higher levels. For the life of me if I see him one more time disrespect his freaking wife by not walking with her, letting her walk first....heck... :censored acknowledge that she's there at some of these events I'm going to lose my mind. Even faking some sort of sentiment of gentlemen attitude isn't hard. Dude literally thinks of no one but himself.
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Offline Chino

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2019, 08:57:32 AM »
And yet the people who actually swung the election for him were most certainly hoping he would change into somebody even remotely presidential.

I 100% fall into this category. I didn't think there'd be any way he'd keep the shtick going the entire time....it's actually graduated to higher levels. For the life of me if I see him one more time disrespect his freaking wife by not walking with her, letting her walk first....heck... :censored acknowledge that she's there at some of these events I'm going to lose my mind. Even faking some sort of sentiment of gentlemen attitude isn't hard. Dude literally thinks of no one but himself.

Like on inauguration day when he completely bailed on her  :lol





 



« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 09:09:19 AM by Chino »

Offline Stadler

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2019, 08:59:17 AM »
Chad, thank you for starting this.  To the extent I acted petulantly, I deeply apologize to anyone here. I consider you all friends, (for the record, I don't pick my friends based on political affiliation.  AT ALL.)   Having said that, and respectfully, man-to-man, I feel obligated to repeat that I don't believe that my underlying point IS understood, and I say that because there is ZERO dialogue about it, and in fact, the dialogue that IS being had directly contradicts my point.  If people don't want to hear it again (and again) I suggest that I can be ignored or blocked. 

Put another way:  calling out Trump as a racist and bigot FUNDAMENTALLY ignores my point.   ANY reference to his "BaseTM FUNDAMENTALLY ignores my point.   ALL the discussion of Fox News FUNDAMENTALLY ignores my point.   Yeah, there's some hyperbole there, because some of those are meaningful discussions in and of themselves, but as a general rule, those arguments PRECLUDE OUTRIGHT what I claim actually happened.    I can't say it any more plain than that (and in fact, it's so plain that I'm likely going to increase the misunderstanding).

Someone I respect said this not long ago (I hope they are not upset or feel I've betrayed their confidence in sharing it, though I'm paraphrasing somewhat):  "My big fear is that Trump will lose in 2020, and that alone will be considered the "big win" and we will settle back into routines that will continue to destroy our country."  I PASSIONATELY believe that.   Our future at a nation is not at all tied to whether a transgender kid in North Carolina can make a game-day decision on what pisser to use.    Our future as a nation IS tied to whether we can effectively govern as 325 million people, and not two partisan sectors of whichever 162.5 million gets to claim "mandate".   China's global economic strategy does not give a fuck about transgender bathrooms.  China's global economic strategy does not give a fuck about whether Trump issues a statement to Breitbart, gives an interview to Sean Hannity, or approves of the ratings of a given television show.   We cannot expect to call people deplorable/snowflakes and expect them to respond collaboratively.   We cannot continue to reject and marginalize people that don't think enough like we do and then wonder why they don't want to work with us?  THIS IS WHY WE HAVE TRUMP, not because half the country is "racist"; because NON-RACISTS are tired of being bullied into programs and candidates they don't want, they don't like and who don't 'work for them based only on identity politics perceptions and optics. 

Amy Klobuchar - another candidate I'm told I should "love" given my views - is talking right now on CNN.  75% of the interview so far is about Trump's tweeting, Trump's staff turnover, and why she doesn't claim "sexism" more.   Think about that: she's being grilled on why she doesn't play the gender card MORE.   

We're fucked. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2019, 09:00:17 AM »
So Kev, what you're saying is that if there could a regular event like 9/11, say every 5 or so years, that would be best? I'm down. I feel like if we bring Bart into it, we can get really creative. It can be like the Olympics. Different countries can compete in bids to be the cause.


Dark humor, but still.
A 9-11 would no longer make any difference. There were a few months in 2001 where we came together, but the blame game started up pretty quickly afterward. It'd be instantaneous at this point. As I've often said, political ideology is an existential matter at this point, and another 9-11 would just be further evidence that the other side (pick one) is desperately trying to kill us all. I argued within a month or two that al Qaeda won the war with that. Not so much by bloodying our nose, but by convincing us to lash out at everybody within reach. We're seeing the results.


Quote from: Kev
Honestly, I am not sure why anyone would want to be President of the United States anymore.

Clinton was torn to shreds for 8 years by the GOP and even impeached.
W. was torn to shreds for most of his 8 years (9/11 toned it down for a bit since we all came together for a short spell).
Obama was torn to shreds for 8 years by the GOP.
Trump has been torn to shreds for over 2 years now.
This has been my thinking for quite some time, but I've revised it now. Not only is it a shit job, but I don't think it's possible to right the ship. Now you're taking a job where you'll be torn to shreds while being completely incapable of fixing the problems that are dragging us down, and will undoubtedly be known as one of the people who crashed the damn bus.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2019, 12:45:07 PM »


You might be right, and I agree that the GOP is just as guilty when it comes to playing the blame game; it just feels like the Democrats have more of a superiority complex ("I am right, and if you disagree with me, you are wrong and/or stupid.").

Honestly, I am not sure why anyone would want to be President of the United States anymore.

Clinton was torn to shreds for 8 years by the GOP and even impeached.
W. was torn to shreds for most of his 8 years (9/11 toned it down for a bit since we all came together for a short spell).
Obama was torn to shreds for 8 years by the GOP.
Trump has been torn to shreds for over 2 years now.

And there is no end in sight, and the really sad thing is, it probably would take another 9/11-type horrific disaster for this country to come together again, and even that would be fleeting yet again.

This is one of the few posts that hints at what I've been saying; the savagery is an integral part of why we have Trump.  The notion, the idea, is that we savage these people in order to make sure that the people we get have nothing to savage, i.e., they're "clean".  But we've totally ignored - against all available evidence - that there is another alternative: that we'll get someone that flat out doesn't give a fuck about being savaged, and in fact, revels in it and courts it.

I despise reality TV and social media:  it has nurtured and encouraged American's worst instincts.   This over-reliance on opinion, this over-reliance on the importance of the individual, this over-reliance on the emotions of the moment (as evidenced by, among other things, the prevalence of swearing to indicate "passion" and how the "moment" trumps decorum and process).  Who does that remind you of?  And now we complain?   The inevitable response here is, "but this is the President and we expect more".   But do we?   Because I don't think, except as specifically services our personal agenda, we do.  I've given examples in the past, which are typically poo-poohed, but there are countless examples nonetheless. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 10:18:37 AM by Stadler »

Offline bosk1

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2019, 03:55:24 PM »
I know you meant this in a specific context, but:
I don't disagree with some of that, but I disagree with the generalizing of it to the point of ignoring specifics.
I mean, I don't disagree with that, in principle.  But in a thread like this, I kind of feel like all we can do is speak in generalities.  Maybe I'm off base here, but it just seems to me that this is such a broad topic that encompasses, well...EVERYBODY on both sides of the aisle and in the aisle.  I'm not sure how to dig into such a huge, multifaceted issue without speaking in generalities.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2019, 03:56:39 PM »
I know you meant this in a specific context, but:
I don't disagree with some of that, but I disagree with the generalizing of it to the point of ignoring specifics.
I mean, I don't disagree with that, in principle.  But in a thread like this, I kind of feel like all we can do is speak in generalities.  Maybe I'm off base here, but it just seems to me that this is such a broad topic that encompasses, well...EVERYBODY on both sides of the aisle and in the aisle.  I'm not sure how to dig into such a huge, multifaceted issue without speaking in generalities.

Yea, I meant it in a specific context. Please don't generalize my thoughts on not liking generalizations, I don't like it. Generally speaking.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2019, 03:57:22 PM »
:lol  Fine...  *backs out of thread*
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Offline Jaffa

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Re: The root of what ails politics
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2019, 12:07:47 AM »
Someone I respect said this not long ago (I hope they are not upset or feel I've betrayed their confidence in sharing it, though I'm paraphrasing somewhat):  "My big fear is that Trump will lose in 2020, and that alone will be considered the "big win" and we will settle back into routines that will continue to destroy our country." 

Not at all.  :)

Though I do feel compelled to clarify that I'm also afraid of the scenario where Trump wins in 2020.

I'm basically just afraid, is what I'm saying. 
Sincerely,
Jaffa