Poll

Who is going to claim the crown??

Laggard - Elite
1 (7.7%)
Cool old man - Lonestar
1 (7.7%)
Italian roulette analyst - LordCost
1 (7.7%)
Music nerd with German music fetish - Parama
1 (7.7%)
Old man with passion for deathmetal vocals - TAC
2 (15.4%)
Train of Naught
7 (53.8%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. THE END.... OR IS IT?  (Read 57848 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74688
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. ROUND 8 UNDERWAY
« Reply #840 on: January 31, 2018, 04:53:58 PM »
tac, I don't think Simon and Garfunkel are the br00tal metal legends you think they are
:lol




So METAL!!!! :metal
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Puppies and the Acid Guppies

  • I find your lack of filtered water disturbing
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11756
  • Gender: Male
  • Together we can rule the ocean as father and son
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. ROUND 8 UNDERWAY
« Reply #841 on: January 31, 2018, 08:10:28 PM »
Oh, I thought TAC was going to send Hall and Oates. Which might be a little more brutal and heavy than Simon and Garfunkel.
aka Puppies_On_Acid
I peed next to Ian Mosley and Mark Kelly
Derek Sherinian probably stands 10 feet away from the urinal, shoots from downtown, and announces loudly that he's making history.
Quote from: TAC, definitely not King
Thes sng is are sounds rally nece an I lyke tha sungar

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74688
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. ROUND 8 UNDERWAY
« Reply #842 on: January 31, 2018, 08:16:02 PM »


or







Tough call... 
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. ROUND 8 UNDERWAY
« Reply #843 on: January 31, 2018, 08:17:34 PM »
john cage's 4'33": the album experience is my favorite deathcore record

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. ROUND 8 UNDERWAY
« Reply #844 on: February 01, 2018, 03:13:57 AM »
What I also did for this round is keep changing the order of songs on every listen, for some random reason. So some writeups may be in the opposite order of submitting the songs.

Next writeup will be on Prospekt by Lonestar:

Akaibara:
This song was basically one big build up and reminds me heavily ofthat Shattered Skies song you sent me and also All A Man Can Do by Beyond the Bridge. Instruments are added here and there in the background very subtly and it feels like everything that's being used is necessary to get to the end goal, which is to create one bombastic ending. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the album closer but apparently one more song follows on the album.

Alien Makers of Discord:
Now this song is essentially Symphony X in 2018, with less 'tough guy/gritty' vocals and more prog-power leaning vocals. Difference being most Symphony X songs, while having a lot of different riffs and ideas, are fairly grounded. This tune here is all over the place with its ideas and throws a dash of creative excellence in there every once in a while. I can name a handful of bands that sound vaguely similar to this one but do what these guys do a tad better, but I still wouldn't really complain too much because this is just really good progmetal. I had some trouble getting into the vocals at first, and the lyrics can be a bit cheesy "we hold on to the other side, can't force the everlasting light". It's the reason I never read Persefone's lyrics. :lol

All in all a good round for you, and pretty respectable AOTY artist (though I definitely preferred what I heard from Der Weg Einer Freiheit, another 2017 album I got sent (by Parama)). Akaibara was my favourite, an easier digest and more compelling as a whole, but both were good.



Next up is Jolly by LordCost:

Now this was pretty embarassing, because the Lord had already sent me Jolly in my first roulette and I actually did enjoy it enough to check out the album. Then for years I just forgot about them because I remember them hyping up a new album but just forgetting about that too so I forgot along with them.

The Pattern:
Now this song was sick, completely took me by surprise. I thought of Where Everything's Perfect as the major Jolly tune because that's the one that gets sent most in roulettes. The chorus on this one is super catchy, the singer has a very strange appeal about him, his voice sounds a bit careless in a grunge fashion, but at the saame time really powerful and energetic. The lovetapping on the guitar is really cool, but what wins me over in the end is those crazy heavy guitar riffs - almost like a breakdown - in the second half.

Where Everything's Perfect:
Now this one remains a bit more of the catchiness factor but swaps it for some more of that cool factor. It's good but it's also more on the dreamy side of the spectrum, which seems to be a side of Jolly I don't like just as much. It's just so... Jolly? They remedy that during the last minute, but it seems very glued on there just for the sake of it. I might be harsher in this writeup than I am, but that was a bit of a disappointment after hearing The Pattern.

Clearly I preferred The Pattern, but both were good. Though with 2 tunes of the quality of The Pattern, you probably would've taken the #1 spot while right now I'm leaning more towards #3.



Blindead by Parama:

Affliction XXVII II MMIX:
Now I just know this will work better in the context of the album. On its own it just feels a bit lost, not having much of an identity other than tying loose ends of the album together into a humble closure. The ending jam with the harsh vocals is pretty killer though, I bet that's gonna be an incredible payoff when listening to the full thing.

My New Playground Became:
This song was a bit more interesting, especially with the more back and forth usage of clean and harsh vocals. The crisp post-metal sound with strong but more in the backgroun lead guitar tones and very deep vocals that kind of emulate sinking into the ocean really make up that sound that the genre creates that I love so much. I also dig when the clean vocals sound a bit 'weak' as to expand that contrast, which must be why I like BTBAM's wimpy cleans so much. :lol Just like with the Affliction song though, I probably enjoy the ending the most, it's a really manic riff but at the same time very controlled.

My New Playground Became was definitely my favourite, but both were pretty great. I think this entry edged out Prospekt for my #3

1. Tool - Parabola
2. Jolly - The Pattern
3. Blindead - My New Playground Became
4. Tool - Schism
5. Prospekt - Akaibara
6. Blindead - Affliction XXVII II MMIX
7. Prospekt - Alien Makers of Discord
8.
9. Jolly - Where Everything's Perfect
10.

I don't have enough time to do the last writeup and it'll have to wait until the evening :'( but I think it's pretty clear now that if I were to eliminate someone this round, it would have been TAC. Sorry buddy, but I hope you won't let me down with this extra chance I gave you. In short, I'll say that Bloodshot Dawn was just a bit too heavy for me, the vocals were quite extreme, but the technicality in the instrumentals grew on me and started to tke over my attention so in the end I kind of just numbed out the vocals in my head. I still ended up enjoying them a fair bit.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 04:09:04 AM by Train of Naught »
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. ROUND 8 UNDERWAY
« Reply #845 on: February 01, 2018, 04:52:30 AM »
Found some time to listen to this batch one last time during an uninteresting lecture.

Battle for the Omniverse:
The vocals don't take away from my enjoyment here quite as much as stated in the previous post to be honest, there is a lot of diversity to them. It's just that when it goes into the 'standard' tone it feels a bit dry and drowned out in the mix. The vocals are also a bit less natural sounding than I'm used to. Some of the instrumentation falls into the 'too technical to grasp' category for me, but for the most part it is pounding, super brootal but also catchy enough, especially in the latter half when it becomes more of a battle of instruments, everyone trying to 1 up each other.

Graviton Nightmare:
Compared to the other, this one is a tad bit less technical and more standard deathmetal. More somber guitar tones, steady-picking riffage with not as much technicality thrown in there to throw off the casual listener in me. This made it a better go-to tune for me in the long run since it was less exhausting to listen to. At some points, this even had really cool stuff going on with the lead guitar mimicking the vocals as an alternative to double vocal tracks. I can't say I'm completely satisfied with this entry and am not even sure yet whether I will check out this album, but this song definitely impressed me sufficiently.

From the above paragraphs, Graviton Nightmare is clearly my favourite, and while both rank near the bottom of the round, don't be discouraged. Battle for the Omniverse was pretty good, and Graviton Nightmare was pretty great.

1. Tool - Parabola
2. Jolly - The Pattern
3. Blindead - My New Playground Became
4. Tool - Schism
5. Prospekt - Akaibara
6. Blindead - Affliction XXVII II MMIX
7. Bloodshot Dawn - Graviton Nightmare
8. Prospekt - Alien Makers of Discord
9. Jolly - Where Everything's Perfect
10. Bloodshot Dawn - Battle for the Omniverse
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17559
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Owned that round, yeah!
Now to fuck up the album round :)


Edit: In hindsight I should have saved Tool for the album round I guess...
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 05:05:36 AM by Elite »
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 30053
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Seriously man...

Offline King Puppies and the Acid Guppies

  • I find your lack of filtered water disturbing
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11756
  • Gender: Male
  • Together we can rule the ocean as father and son
Owned that round, yeah!
Now to fuck up the album round :)


Edit: In hindsight I should have saved Tool for the album round I guess...
Lateralus would have been the album I was going to send, had I made it this far...
aka Puppies_On_Acid
I peed next to Ian Mosley and Mark Kelly
Derek Sherinian probably stands 10 feet away from the urinal, shoots from downtown, and announces loudly that he's making history.
Quote from: TAC, definitely not King
Thes sng is are sounds rally nece an I lyke tha sungar

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
from the averages it looks like i'd have placed second, keeping up my streak of not quite sending your favorite of the round but still comfortably close to the top  :corn

anyways that changes with the album i sent, easy #1 baby

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
Yeah the more I listened to everything the more I realized I liked almost everything better than Where Everything's Perfect. Bloodshot Dawn was deadlast with both songs before but they also grew on me, and Blindead was middle of the pack all the way through first but I realized it had a bit more staying power than Prospekt.

Edit: In hindsight I should have saved Tool for the album round I guess...
Probably, though you could also send me that Overhaul sweetness even though I already listened to it
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Edit: In hiindsiight I should have saved Tool for the album round I guess...
:jamaritard:

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74688
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Well thanks Train for the Roulette Welfare.
I was actually pretty confident with Bloodshot Dawn.

If you didn’t like that there’s no way you’re going to like the CD I set you! :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Well thanks Train for the Roulette Welfare.
I was actually pretty confident with Bloodshot Dawn.

If you didn’t like that there’s no way you’re going to like the CD I set you! :lol
Bolsters got roulette welfare in my last roulette and then ended up winning the final round so you never know  :corn

I mean, aside from the fact that everyone besides me is playing for second place in this round.

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
If you didn’t like that there’s no way you’re going to like the CD I set you! :lol
I'm not sure, I've heard good things about this album. My only experience with it is checking out the first few songs and turning it off for whatever reason I don't remember right now :lol so maybe it's good that I'm being forced to listen to it multiple times now, I'm convinced it could be a great album!

Well thanks Train for the Roulette Welfare.
I was actually pretty confident with Bloodshot Dawn.

If you didn’t like that there’s no way you’re going to like the CD I set you! :lol
Bolsters got roulette welfare in my last roulette and then ended up winning the final round so you never know  :corn
And your secondary judge system allowed me to be in the finals by sending the best music according to the judges' average despite you hating it, that was great
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #855 on: February 02, 2018, 11:22:06 AM »
EliteCost send your albums already I'm dying over here
How can you get to this round and not have the best goddamn album ever ready to send?  :corn

Offline LordCost

  • Posts: 1704
  • Gender: Male
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #856 on: February 02, 2018, 11:36:16 AM »
I have the album since the first rounds :lol I will send it tomorrow morning

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17559
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #857 on: February 02, 2018, 12:18:55 PM »
Same. And I already sent an album Train rejected :)
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #858 on: February 02, 2018, 12:40:48 PM »
wow rip  :corn
glad my pick is obscure enough that train wouldn't have heard it

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #859 on: February 02, 2018, 12:45:11 PM »
Same. And I already sent an album Train rejected :)
You didn't technucally send it :( you just said you were considering it

I should do more post-roulette digging to be honest. I've gotten a lot of bands I also received before at some point (just like your album, I got The Garden of Fire last roulette and almost immediately checked out the album. It would've been a crazy good roulette entry though)
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #860 on: February 02, 2018, 12:51:38 PM »
Yeah, Sleep at the Edge of the Earth is just one of those albums that's so high in quality it basically has to do well, The Garden of Fire was the best song in my entire second roulette  :lol

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74688
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
If you didn’t like that there’s no way you’re going to like the CD I set you! :lol
I'm not sure, I've heard good things about this album. My only experience with it is checking out the first few songs and turning it off for whatever reason I don't remember right now :lol so maybe it's good that I'm being forced to listen to it multiple times now, I'm convinced it could be a great album!


Probably too fucking heavy! :metal
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #862 on: February 03, 2018, 11:20:03 AM »
trainy do this for round 9 instead of hangmanen please

Okay



Wow yeah this is so brilliant I bet these are gonna get guessed

Just wanna point out I actually did do this like 2 years ago in one of the rounds and it wasn't really a success
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #863 on: February 03, 2018, 11:25:24 AM »
i mean if you pick a pure white and almost pure black section of a cover for it yeah  :lol
i like the dog

Offline Train of Naught

  • I sympathize, with a cockroach
  • Posts: 8008
  • Gender: Male
  • .....and a cockroach
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #864 on: February 03, 2018, 11:28:52 AM »
There's 5 finalists ya goofball, the white section is left blank intentionally

The dog album is Animals by Pink Floyd, it's pretty good
people on this board are actual music fans who developed taste in music and not casual listeners who are following current fashion trends and listening to only current commercial hits.

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #865 on: February 03, 2018, 11:32:37 AM »
oh, right  :lol

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17559
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #866 on: February 03, 2018, 12:28:52 PM »
I think I recognise the hand

The white one is California by Mr. Bungle :neverusethis:
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Online twosuitsluke

  • Posts: 10717
  • Gender: Male
  • Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #867 on: February 03, 2018, 01:21:03 PM »
The one with the hand is Arcade Fire isn't it?

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #868 on: February 03, 2018, 01:25:17 PM »
I thought that too but I checked and it isn't  :lol

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17559
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #869 on: February 03, 2018, 01:46:18 PM »
No, it's definitely not Arcade Fire.

I'm sure I've seen it before, the dog also looks very familiar. aaaaargh
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #870 on: February 03, 2018, 01:47:44 PM »
i'll freely reveal that the awful impossible to guess black one is mine and i dunno why train picked that part of the cover but  :lol

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74688
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #871 on: February 03, 2018, 02:14:17 PM »
You forgot mine!

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 30053
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #872 on: February 03, 2018, 04:40:13 PM »
That dog looks baked as fuck.

Offline King Puppies and the Acid Guppies

  • I find your lack of filtered water disturbing
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11756
  • Gender: Male
  • Together we can rule the ocean as father and son
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #873 on: February 03, 2018, 10:17:00 PM »
i'll freely reveal that the awful impossible to guess black one is mine and i dunno why train picked that part of the cover but  :lol
It looks like a Velvet Cacoon album cover. Either Atropine or P aa Opal Poere Pr. 33, but you wouldn't be so mean as to send one of those.......would you? I mean Atropine has a 36 minute minimalist ambient track on it....
aka Puppies_On_Acid
I peed next to Ian Mosley and Mark Kelly
Derek Sherinian probably stands 10 feet away from the urinal, shoots from downtown, and announces loudly that he's making history.
Quote from: TAC, definitely not King
Thes sng is are sounds rally nece an I lyke tha sungar

Offline Crow

  • Holy Guide of the 4/10
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26780
  • Gender: Female
  • tdjghjjkhliòujoàupougjyufkuyrkuyt
Re: Train Roulette III: The Cool Kids Edition v. SEND FINAL ROUND LORDCOST/ELITE
« Reply #874 on: February 03, 2018, 10:45:25 PM »
i have never heard of them, no  :lol