Lord Of The Rings TV Show??

[Logain Ablar]

Just read this news article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/11/08/lord-rings-tv-series-amazon-netflix-battle-land-rights/

LOTR is probably my favourite book of all time, and I very much like the original trilogy (let’s not speak of The Hobbit movies), but a TV series??

Could this work and be a success, a la GoT? Also, what story is it going to tell? If it’s a retelling of LOTR, what’s the point? I can’t see them doing a better job than the original PJ movies. If they are planning to dip into The Silmarillion, then that’s a massive challenge to translate that into a TV show format.

[The Walrus]

The only way I'll accept this is if it's The Silmarillion and they have Weta Workshop and Peter Jackson on speed dial, and even then I'm wary because even though I love The Silmarillion to death, it is a very dry, history-rich book. I would imagine lots of people who would go into The Silmarillion would expect Lord of the Rings level conflict and adventure and it's just a totally different monster. They would be best off making a season or two about one specific part of the book instead of trying to do the whole shebang.

In other words, I'm extremely wary of how this may turn out.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I have a bit of trepidation as well.  I wouldn't want a retelling of LotR itself.  And, honestly, I don't think that is what they would do.  I would assume it would be somewhat of an "expanded universe" type of thing where they take the characters we are familiar with and tells new stories with them.  I wouldn't assume it is The Silmarillion.

[The Walrus]

Ooh bosk... you gave me an idea... the Blue Wizards! We know nearly nothing about them. They could take it into a Shadow of Mordor/War direction and do their own thing while still respecting the LOTR universe. I could get on board with that.

[bosk1]

Yeah, something like that would be cool.  Honestly, the possibilities for what they could do are practically endless.

[MirrorMask]

I agree too that if there has to be a Tolkien based TV series, it has to be The Silmarillion.

The movies are still fresh and give or take some details, in the grand scheme of things they're excellent and more than well executed. Leave them stand alone, a TV series is redundant.

(Even though one may look forward for the bottle episode of Tom Bombadil  )

[Logain Ablar]

Ooh bosk... you gave me an idea... the Blue Wizards! We know nearly nothing about them. They could take it into a Shadow of Mordor/War direction and do their own thing while still respecting the LOTR universe. I could get on board with that.

I always liked imagining what the blue wizards got up to, and what finally happened to them. Maybe some sort of wizard origin story, about why they were sent to middle earth, what their roles were, would be one potential storyline.

From what little I've seen of the Shadow of Mordor games, they seem to be a million miles away from the spirit of Tolkien. One thing about the first LOTR trilogy was that it was successful in capturing the "feel" of the books. It's going to be really hard to recapture that in a TV show.

[Jarlaxle]

Do not hold your breath for anything from the Silmarillon, Unfinished Tales, Children of Hurin, etc. Tolkien only sold the film rights for the Hobbit and LOTR, so unless Christopher has a change of heart in his 90s that he suddenly loves all of the adaptations there have been on his father's work, there is a 0% chance that he will sell the rights for the rest of Tolkien's work. If it's not spoken about in the Hobbit, LOTR, or the appendices it cannot be made into a movie. It's too bad, because while the Silmarillion would never work for a straight adaptation, there are so many amazing stories in there that could each take up a season of a TV show, but it won't be happening.

As for this remake...please no. Apparently if they do purchase the rights, Amazon will not have the rights to all the characters. Now, who that means gets cut isn't known, maybe it is minor characters or maybe Gandalf now has to be Gendorf the Greyish. While not perfect, Jackson's original LOTR trilogy is a pretty damn good adaptation for what it is, I have no such hope that a television remake will do it any sort of justice because A) it is too soon. Ian McKellan is still Gandalf, Viggo Mortensen still Aragorn, etc, and B) one of the largest criticism of Jackson was that he missed the essence of the books and created an action movie instead, and now the Amazon guy wants his own GOT, and wants a gritty, realistic, LOTR...well, that's exactly what LOTR isn't.

The Shadow of War/Mordor games are fun games in their own right, but they are an abomination of Tolkien lore. NOTHING fits into the legendarium of Middle-Earth. If a TV series is going to be made in that sort of vein, steer clear of LOTR please, corrupt some other books, or create your own world.

[cramx3]

Wow at the price tag for this, it better be a huge hit for that price that HBO didn't want it.  I'm going to guess along with others that it's based on the world of LotR and characters and not necessarily about the story we already know.

[MirrorMask]

As for this remake...please no. Apparently if they do purchase the rights, Amazon will not have the rights to all the characters. Now, who that means gets cut isn't known, maybe it is minor characters or maybe Gandalf now has to be Gendorf the Greyish. While not perfect, Jackson's original LOTR trilogy is a pretty damn good adaptation for what it is, I have no such hope that a television remake will do it any sort of justice because A) it is too soon. Ian McKellan is still Gandalf, Viggo Mortensen still Aragorn, etc, and B) one of the largest criticism of Jackson was that he missed the essence of the books and created an action movie instead, and now the Amazon guy wants his own GOT, and wants a gritty, realistic, LOTR...well, that's exactly what LOTR isn't.

Ugh. I remember Peter Jackson had to fight to keep all four hobbits ("can't there be just two?") and stuff like that. Lord of the Rings is not like Game of Thrones, with so many storylines and character that you could drop a minor one. If it's not done with the exact characters of the books, it ain't worth doing.

And gritty and realistic LOTR in the vein of GOT? Sex scene with Aragorn and Arwen? no bloody way.

[The Walrus]

Nope, sex scene with Frodo and Sam. It's 2017, get with it. 

[cramx3]

Hobbit sex, goblin sex, orc sex, the options are endless

[Logain Ablar]

Hobbit sex, goblin sex, orc sex, the options are endless

I bet if you typed those into Google, you’d get a few surprising results. Not that I’ve done that, no no..

I think Tolkien would be turning in his grave with any kind of sex scene.

As Jarlaxle says, I can’t imagine Christopher Tolkien signing over any additional rights. He has been less than complimentary about the film adaptations already. Whatever they do will have to be within the existing rights. Maybe they are allowed to create new characters in the same world (Gendorf the slightly off-white, or whatever), but this could be a train wreck.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/official-lord-rings-tv-series-gets-multiple-season-commitment-at-amazon-1057486

[The Walrus]

Please don't suck.

[Logain Ablar]

Amazon’s LOTR series will be set in Middle-earth and explore new storylines preceding Tolkien’s The Fellowship of the Ring. The deal includes a potential additional spinoff series.

Not much detail in that, but pre-FOTR? I would be very very surprised if Amazon got the rights to the Silmarillion. I wonder if they could base it around a young Aragorn, in his time as a ranger. I can’t really see this being Hobbit-centric.

[MirrorMask]

Why not? I'm down with multiple seasons of Hobbits fooling around and doing nothing but smoking, having second breakfasts and frolicking around in the Shire. Season finale cliffhanger: Bilbo wears the Ring and disappear. Every seaason finale.

 

[Nekov]

I also thought this would be around The Silmarillion but if as Jarlaxle is saying the rights don't include that then Amazon is going to have a huge budget hole in years to come.

[Nekov]

The series will explore storylines set before the events in the first LOTR novel, The Fellowship of the Ring. In other words: The war to destroy the One Ring as chronicled in Peter Jackson’s Oscar-winning trilogy of films will not be told in the TV version. So this story is either set before The Hobbit or in between The Hobbit and LOTR.

Well, there you go

[Logain Ablar]

Great article here on what the series is likely to cover:

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2017/11/14/104393-contents-of-amazons-lord-of-the-rings-series-not-so-mysterious-after-all/

It seems that they will most likely try to squeeze what they can from the Appendices of LOTR.

[The Walrus]

Well, they certainly can make the content work. What I'm most worried about is the quality of production. The LOTR movies still look incredible to this day and I hope they use practical effects as much as possible and can make the sets look as amazing as they still look in the films. This whole legal 'can use, cannot use' stuff makes it complicated but I do think if they can pull it off this could be something truly wonderful.

I can't just sit back and enjoy it 100%, I have to be critical and wary yet hopeful... the pitfalls of fandom 

[faizoff]

It's got a much larger budget than what I was thinking, I'm a bit intrigued by what the storylines will be, if they can really work out a viable and interesting story from all of this I'd be interested in watching it.. Regardless I think I'm going to be watching this no matter the reviews. My guess is that they want it to be different from the movies and with the blurb about being set before the fellowship but after The Hobbit, I'm curious how they set everything up.

[BlackInk]

There no real reason to automatically think this will be bad, and I’m not saying it will be, but all of this just makes me tired.

[Orbert]

Hobbit One: A Lord of the Rings Story

[Logain Ablar]

Yeah, I think quality is my number one concern. The Hobbit movies damaged the brand, to some extent, so I’d be looking for the new show to be respectful of the source material, but also to feel like it belongs to the same world created by the original trilogy.

It will be interesting to see if they bring PJ on board, even in a consulting capacity, though I’m not sure he would be interested. It would also be cool to bring in John Howe and Alan Lee to do some production design. That might be a smart way to try to recapture the look and feel of movie Middle Earth.

[Prog Snob]

I'm glad someone created a thread for this.

I'm both excited and concerned, especially now that Christopher Tolkien has removed himself from the Tolkien Estate. He was the one keeping certain things from being done. However, maybe we'll now see more licensing of certain products. I know he was always trepidatious regarding allowing certain things. I cannot get enough of anything Tolkien-related, but I also don't want something that's a complete bastardization of the canon just to make a quick buck. *cough* 300 page book = movie trilogy *cough*

As much as I loved seeing Evangeline Lilly in long flowing red hair and a complete badass, it was just so wrong as far as the book goes. There is more than enough written in Middle Earth that new characters shouldn't have to be created. My worry aside, I think this new series is going to be something with the potential for brilliance.

[Logain Ablar]

You're back!!! 

[Prog Snob]

I came here hoping to find a thread for this.   

[kaos2900]

Not really any details released to make me concerned or optimistic at this point. If it sucks I won't watch it. If it's good I will.

Also, while the Hobbitt trilogy was not as good as the original, it was still really well done. I've never understood the hate for it.

[Logain Ablar]

John-Rhys Davies is not particularly impressed by the idea of the TV show:

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/lord-rings-star-says-jrr-tolkien-spinning-grave-tv-show-plans-2159935
https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/john-rhys-davies/53281/john-rhys-davies-interview-aux-orcs-lord-of-the-rings-indiana-jones-and-more

As much as like Gimli from the movies, I think equally, Tolkien may be spinning in his grave over the fact that they turned Gimli into comic relief in several parts of the movies. I remember that jarring me the first time watching.

Oh, and not LOTR related, but seeing his picture always makes me think of "Asps. Very dangerous. You go first!". Classic line!

[Prog Snob]

Also, while the Hobbitt trilogy was not as good as the original, it was still really well done. I've never understood the hate for it.

Context is everything. If you look at it as its own piece of work then it's excellent. It really is a brilliantly made independent piece of work. If you are someone hoping that it kept more with the spirit of the book, then the movie is a disappointment in that aspect. You can't say it's not as it undoubtedly has very little resemblance to the book. I can see both sides of it easily, and agree with both sides.

[Prog Snob]

John-Rhys Davies is not particularly impressed by the idea of the TV show:

I can understand his concern. Did he ever give his opinion about The Hobbit trilogy? I'm curious as to what he thought about it.

Something else I thought of earlier - I wonder how many actors from the Game of Thrones series could possibly end up with a role in the show. I picture a few of them getting asked.

[bosk1]

Also, while the Hobbitt trilogy was not as good as the original, it was still really well done. I've never understood the hate for it.

Context is everything. If you look at it as its own piece of work then it's excellent. It really is a brilliantly made independent piece of work. If you are someone hoping that it kept more with the spirit of the book, then the movie is a disappointment in that aspect. You can't say it's not as it undoubtedly has very little resemblance to the book. I can see both sides of it easily, and agree with both sides.

I am FAR from a Tolkein purist, but I really have a hard time using words like "excellent" or "brilliant" to describe the Hobbit films.  My problems with it are not that they deviated from the text.  My problems with it are not that they expanded it "needlessly" to make it three years worth of Hollywood blockbuster.  I actually like a lot of the individual creative decisions they made in those regards.  My problems stem more from the fact that they, in effect, dumbed down the LOTR series with this trilogy, made it look more like a video game than a movie at times, inserted plot details that either made no sense or were so distracting as to take you completely out of the moment, and made some of the characters into what I felt were cardboard cutout characatures of what they were supposed to be.  There are many moments about the films that I love.  But overall, the series really left me cold and disappointed.  I'm not sure how to describe it as anything better than, "good overall, but deeply flawed on several fundamental levels." 

[Logain Ablar]

John-Rhys Davies is not particularly impressed by the idea of the TV show:

I can understand his concern. Did he ever give his opinion about The Hobbit trilogy? I'm curious as to what he thought about it.

Something else I thought of earlier - I wonder how many actors from the Game of Thrones series could possibly end up with a role in the show. I picture a few of them getting asked.

I couldn't find much around the web. Though it sounds like he's quite an outspoken character, so if he didn't like it he wouldn't be too shy to say so.

I am FAR from a Tolkein purist, but I really have a hard time using words like "excellent" or "brilliant" to describe the Hobbit films.  My problems with it are not that they deviated from the text.  My problems with it are not that they expanded it "needlessly" to make it three years worth of Hollywood blockbuster.  I actually like a lot of the individual creative decisions they made in those regards.  My problems stem more from the fact that they, in effect, dumbed down the LOTR series with this trilogy, made it look more like a video game than a movie at times, inserted plot details that either made no sense or were so distracting as to take you completely out of the moment, and made some of the characters into what I felt were cardboard cutout characatures of what they were supposed to be.  There are many moments about the films that I love.  But overall, the series really left me cold and disappointed.  I'm not sure how to describe it as anything better than, "good overall, but deeply flawed on several fundamental levels." 

I agree. Admittedly, some aspects were very well done. I liked Martin Freeman as Bilbo, although generally I'm not a huge fan of his. The dwarves arrival at Bag End was good, Riddles In The Dark was good, Smaug was well done, Bard the bowman was good.

I think the bits that annoyed me the most were the bits that strayed into almost slapstick territory. I'm thinking of the Great Goblin, the Master of Laketown / Alfrid, Radagast and the bunny sled, and the worst atrocity for me - Billy Connolly as Dain Ironfoot.

Then there's the other parts that seemed a bit like filler, such as the golden statue scene, Bolg, the Dol Guldur scenes. I know there was studio pressures and all sorts of drama around the financing and production, but I really think that they could have made two real quality movies, instead of stretching it out to three, and having the overall quality suffer for it.

[The Walrus]

The moments that were borderline slapstick - a perfect description by the way - really did ruin the films for me, along with the CGI that was somehow less believable than the Lord of the Rings effects. As well as the padding, bloating the story into a trilogy and adding bullshit new characters and Legolas (when he isn't in the book either) but not even trying to develop most of the dwarven members of the party (which would have been the smarter thing to do so they have some weight, any weight at all, to their characters)... I'm still upset about how they portrayed Radagast. Way to make him look like an utter nutcase. At least the scenes with Gandalf taking care of business when he left the party were always cool.