Author Topic: Richard Chycki says he's currently mixing a DT live album **DO NOT POST LINKS**  (Read 84819 times)

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Offline sfam2112

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Sorry. To clarify, it wasn't just randomly added to the song after the fact. It was a fix. They did have a sax player for the Rotterdam show. I'm guessing it didn't go well because they had Jay Beckenstein come in and redo it. :)
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Offline Trav86

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They didn’t have a sax player at the OIALT show in Paris. It was just overdubbed. The worst part is that it was dubbed over a great Derek piano solo. Kinda shows the disrespect certain band members had for him. “Fuck our keyboard player’s solo. We’ll just put a saxophone over that.”  If you listen you can hear it buried in the mix. There are bootlegs of that show, where you can hear it in full.
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Offline sfam2112

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They didn’t have a sax player at the OIALT show in Paris.

The fanclub show in Rotterdam a few nights before did have a sax player. TAMP and I think Hollow Years are from that show.
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Offline Trav86

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Some stuff for the 5 Years In A Livetime video we’re from that show. Everything on the album is from the one Paris show. I’ve heard the bootleg of the full concert. No sax.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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The worst part is that it was dubbed over a great Derek piano solo. Kinda shows the disrespect certain band members had for him. “Fuck our keyboard player’s solo. We’ll just put a saxophone over that.”  If you listen you can hear it buried in the mix. There are bootlegs of that show, where you can hear it in full.
Honestly, I don't think that was the case at all. Typically, TAMP had a guitar solo whenever the song was played live on Touring Into Infinity. The fact that they had saxophone included at the fanclub show in Rotterdam 3 days earlier suggests that they always intended to have saxophone on the track. What happened so that they opted not include any saxophone at the Paris show is unknown - perhaps Jay was supposed to join them and couldn't for whatever reason? maybe they realized the guy they intended to play saxophone wouldn't be able to cut it? And maybe they opted to have Derek just do something on the piano to fill out the sound a bit more during the solo section, knowing they would eventually have Jay add the sax after the fact in the studio.

Personally, I hate the fact that they did it that way (adding it in the studio) and wish they had left it as is. And to me it's gimmicky given that they had Jay reprise his role here and later also on LSFNY (altho at least that was live), but whatever. What's done is done, and while I don't like it, I don't think there was any ill intent against Derek as you're suggesting.
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Offline Robo4900

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That just sounds... awful.

But that reminds me I have never listened to OiaLT all the way through, which is weird considering DT has been my favorite band since I&W and I've bought everything they've ever released (except CiM).
Honestly, it works surprisingly well, and the OIAL CD is actually really awesome and well worth a purchase, I'd say.
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Offline PetFish

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Offline Cool Chris

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That just sounds... awful.

But that reminds me I have never listened to OiaLT all the way through, which is weird considering DT has been my favorite band since I&W and I've bought everything they've ever released (except CiM).
Honestly, it works surprisingly well, and the OIAL CD is actually really awesome and well worth a purchase, I'd say.

Listening to it now on Spotify. Derek sure has developed his keyboard sound over the past 20 years, he said sarcastically.

I don't like James much at all in this period, and I can't pinpoint why. I don't think it is because he is struggling, like he can nowadays. It's like he isn't sure how to sing the lines, for lack of any reasonably educated explanation.
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Offline dparrott

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Offline James Mypetgiress

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So I've been not very into DT as of recent, got hyped off the back of the DT14 youtube videos so I thought I'd come back here... saw this thread, what's going on with the live album? This thread is from November, but I've not seen anything about a live album through the official DT media streams?

Online MirrorMask

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They're considering how to potentially have an official release for that, that's why the band doesn't want links about this material shared because there might be a time in the future when this can be officially released.

If and when that time will come, for now it's all under wraps.
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Offline ToT-147

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^^ Was there any fake crowd noise added in Breaking the Fourth Wall?  I hope not, because I found that crowd noise there to be much more genuine than in Luna Park (which is odd since I was always under the impression that Argentinian crowds, in general, are very passionate, but I felt the crowd reactions was lacking in that DVD).

To this day, I wonder what happened with the audience in Luna Park. It looks like nobody fed them for a week. Which is truly a shame, because Argentinian crowds have a reputation that can only be surpassed by Brazil or Chile. They should have filmed that DVD in Santiago.

:facepalm:

I'm surprised no one corrected this.. We're indeed, along with those two countries, one of the loudest crowds in the world (don't even need to prove this, but here you can check what the yt's result list looks like when searching for "argentinian crowd" goo.gl/1QyZry).. About the DT show, I was there, as I was there for every show they played here since 2010, and can assure than in all of them (even in TA's show, which had that obvious different kind of ambient) we were really loud and genuinely surpring the band, like you'd never see on any other DT show at all (official dvd or bootleg)..


tl/dr: here you have a 6 minute vid that will give you an idea of what might have sounded the crowd if they wouldn't have so extremely turn us down in the LaLP release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK7CSos2yVM
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Offline PetFish

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To this day, I wonder what happened with the audience in Luna Park. It looks like nobody fed them for a week. Which is truly a shame, because Argentinian crowds have a reputation that can only be surpassed by Brazil or Chile. They should have filmed that DVD in Santiago.

I really can't stand crowds that overpower the band all the time.  I want to hear the band, not thousands of people chanting and moaning and "singing" the instrumental parts of songs.  I can't even watch R:30 because of this enormous distraction.

Any official releases of live shows would benefit from having an audio track with crowd noise on it and one without (or minimal) so everyone can be happy.

I think it's great how South America and Europe have this in their culture, and I'm sure if you're in the crowd it's way different, but when I want to hear a band play their songs that's what I want to hear.  I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.

Offline Anguyen92

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^^ I respectfully digress.  Sometimes, a really energetic crowd can really make a live DVD release which is why Rush in Rio stands out to me the most of their modern DVD releases (that and the Clockwork Angels DVD, mainly for the strings ensemble).  I love the idea of seeing and hearing a stadium going bonkers for basically anything the band does.  You want to hear the band play the songs without the crowd getting too involved?  That's fine.  Maybe, DT should do something like do a 2.5 hour set in the studio all mic'ed up with no audiences and ready to play their songs live without any post-footage fiddling.  That actually sounds cool and they should do that in the future and I would buy it, but anyway.

As cool as that idea I just mentioned sounds, hearing little or generic audience reactions and sounds to me just really defeats the purpose of watching a live concert DVD. I want to feel that crowd enthusiasm as much as I can to as if I was there in that moment.  A dead sounding crowd for a DVD?  No bueno for me.  I think if you would ask any live touring band and for certain, they would love nothing more than if a crowd of their shows would go crazy for virtually anything and that band would want to share it for the world to see.  Take this video, for instance, of Muse playing Plug-in Baby in a stadium in Rome, Italy.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCUZSS54drI&ab_channel=Muse

I just love that 60k people are crazy for everything during that song.  To me, that should be what every band should try to strive for in their live shows and if they are doing a DVD for a show, they should try to highlight that crowd enthusiasm the best they can (which to me was a big fatal flaw to DT's Luna Park DVD, despite a strong live performance).
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 11:45:46 PM by Anguyen92 »

Offline JRuless

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^^ I respectfully ..........      .....try to highlight that crowd enthusiasm the best they can (which to me was a big fatal flaw to DT's Luna Park DVD, despite a strong live performance).

+1
It is exactly what I like about the Score DVD also. When TROAE kicks in. The buzz of the crowd energizes the song!

Offline KevShmev

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To this day, I wonder what happened with the audience in Luna Park. It looks like nobody fed them for a week. Which is truly a shame, because Argentinian crowds have a reputation that can only be surpassed by Brazil or Chile. They should have filmed that DVD in Santiago.

I really can't stand crowds that overpower the band all the time.  I want to hear the band, not thousands of people chanting and moaning and "singing" the instrumental parts of songs.  I can't even watch R:30 because of this enormous distraction.

Any official releases of live shows would benefit from having an audio track with crowd noise on it and one without (or minimal) so everyone can be happy.

I think it's great how South America and Europe have this in their culture, and I'm sure if you're in the crowd it's way different, but when I want to hear a band play their songs that's what I want to hear.  I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.

I would say, listen to the studio versions if you don't want crowd noise.

Crowd noise is part of the show.  To me, hearing or seeing a live album with very little or no crowd noise makes me think the crowd was bored to death and not into the show at all, which takes away from the overall aura.  I am not saying I want the crowd to be so loud that they overpower the band, but they need to be heard (assuming they made noise and didn't sit there like statues at a prog rock concert :P).

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As long as it's real crowd noise, bring it on.  I love Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio for that reason.  It adds almost another layer to the music and brings it to life.  But it's also great when you have a band like IM who have so many releases that you can get your less crowd noise live version and full on crazy crowd live version.  Either way, my personal taste is to include the energy of the crowd in the live music.

Offline TAC

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As long as it's real crowd noise, bring it on.  I love Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio for that reason.  It adds almost another layer to the music and brings it to life.  But it's also great when you have a band like IM who have so many releases that you can get your less crowd noise live version and full on crazy crowd live version.  Either way, my personal taste is to include the energy of the crowd in the live music.

There's something about RiR's mix though that it's almost a wall of sound to me.

Personally, this is why I always prefer Death On The Road. Love the band's mix much better, but the crowd is amazing.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline pcs90

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I agree with those who say natural crowd noise is part of the show. There's a Snarky Puppy concert from a few years ago in Argentina, and the crowd is on fire. The show would be great regardless, but you can feel even more energy than normal because of the audience, and it's mixed so that the band is not overpowered.
Fake or mixed-in crowd noise is annoying though particularly when it's done poorly, such as using the same clip multiple times or just repeating a loop...I hate that.

Offline dparrott

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I guess it depends on what you want from a live release.  Crowd noise is bootleg quality IMO and I don't want to pay mega bucks for that.  I want to hear the band play in professional quality sound and stereo.

And you can't get extended versions and solos in a studio release! 
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Offline Anguyen92

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And you can't get extended versions and solos in a studio release!

Well, you can.  The band just needs to go into the studio and record the song and then stretch out the album version of the song and release it for the public to hear and there you go.  It's an extended version.

Offline PetFish

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I knew this part was going to be ignored:

I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.

... so stop telling me to just listen to the CD.

I want live sounds and ambiance and energy.  I want that "in the moment" feeling go ahead an cheer, sing, clap, mosh, etc.

All I'm saying is that if you're trying to sing the opening lick to Breaking All Illusions, or Jordan's ragtime spot in The Dance of Eternity, or Myung's bass solo from Metropolis, then *that* is just too much and too silly.  It's just as awful for me as having that jackass nearby who can't sing and doesn't even know the words to the song.

That's all it is.  I want to hear the band.  The live variations.  All that stuff, but how can I do that when the crowd never|shuts|up?  So, put in the actual live audio track with all the crowd noise, but also a toned-down version that doesn't drown out the band.

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I knew this part was going to be ignored:

I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.

... so stop telling me to just listen to the CD.

I want live sounds and ambiance and energy.  I want that "in the moment" feeling go ahead an cheer, sing, clap, mosh, etc.

All I'm saying is that if you're trying to sing the opening lick to Breaking All Illusions, or Jordan's ragtime spot in The Dance of Eternity, or Myung's bass solo from Metropolis, then *that* is just too much and too silly.  It's just as awful for me as having that jackass nearby who can't sing and doesn't even know the words to the song.


Well, that's absolutely too. But on the other hand, stuff like the Metropolis reprise in Overture 1928 is mandatory to sing, if the full house doesn't go for it, it's a failure  :D
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Offline ToT-147

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stuff like the Metropolis reprise in Overture 1928 is mandatory to sing, if the full house doesn't go for it, it's a failure  :D

 :lol Exactly..
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Offline dparrott

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If this ever gets released, I wouldn't buy it unless it had MAJOR vocal pitch correction.  Those I&W songs are hard to listen to.
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Offline bosk1

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I knew this part was going to be ignored:

I'd even say go ahead and "sing" lyrics or cheer/applaud when it feels right, but when the crowd is trying to "sing" the guitar/bass/key/drums the entire time it's just too much.

... so stop telling me to just listen to the CD.

I want live sounds and ambiance and energy.  I want that "in the moment" feeling go ahead an cheer, sing, clap, mosh, etc.

All I'm saying is that if you're trying to sing the opening lick to Breaking All Illusions, or Jordan's ragtime spot in The Dance of Eternity, or Myung's bass solo from Metropolis, then *that* is just too much and too silly.  It's just as awful for me as having that jackass nearby who can't sing and doesn't even know the words to the song.

That's all it is.  I want to hear the band.  The live variations.  All that stuff, but how can I do that when the crowd never|shuts|up?  So, put in the actual live audio track with all the crowd noise, but also a toned-down version that doesn't drown out the band.

It isn't [band X]'s fault that you don't understand/appreciate the purpose of a live release.
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Offline The Walrus

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I'm calling BS on that bosk because I'm in full agreement with PetFish there. Him not wanting to hear every mong in the crowd try to prove their worthiness as a fan to everyone around them by singing every 13/8 drum fill audibly does not have anything to do with his 'understanding' (read that in the snarkiest possible way for full effect) of the purpose of a live release and that condescension is pretty uncalled for.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 02:59:06 PM by Kattelox »
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Offline bosk1

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Calling out faulty reasoning is not condescension.  Calling out entire countries because you don't understand or appreciate their culture and, essentially saying, "those savages ruined my live experience with their singing and enthusiasm" is.  Sorry you don't understand the difference.
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Offline The Walrus

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Calling out faulty reasoning is not condescension.  Calling out entire countries because you don't understand or appreciate their culture and, essentially saying, "those savages ruined my live experience with their singing and enthusiasm" is.  Sorry you don't understand the difference.

Two in a row. He didn't call them savages, either, and he wasn't attacking any country's culture. You're misrepresenting what he said and acting like a dick on top of it. Class.
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Offline bosk1

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Calling out faulty reasoning is not condescension.  Calling out entire countries because you don't understand or appreciate their culture and, essentially saying, "those savages ruined my live experience with their singing and enthusiasm" is.  Sorry you don't understand the difference.

Two in a row. He didn't call them savages, either. You're misrepresenting what he said and acting like a dick on top of it. Class.

And you don't get to call people names or tell me how to run my house, so think about that during this week-long break.
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Offline Zook

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I get chills from hearing crowd participation. Check out Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio. Incredible. I agree someone trying to sing along to a drum fill is a bit much though.

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I would like to bring a touch of sophistication to the discussion stating a live album without strong crowd noises is like a porn movie without convincing moans.

Offline ToT-147

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I get chills from hearing crowd participation. Check out Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio. Incredible. I agree someone trying to sing along to a drum fill is a bit much though.

Exactly.. But that kind of things are only audible when you are actually IN the show, not in the crowd mix of a live release.. At least *I* have never heard someone singing along fast sections in any band's CD/DVD at all..

I think you guys are talking about two very different things as if they were the same..
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I would like to bring a touch of sophistication to the discussion stating a live album without strong crowd noises is like a porn movie without convincing moans.

I get the analogy, but I always watch porn with the sound muted anyway.  I have no interest in fake moaning and bad music.

I like hearing the crowd on a live recording, but not so loud that it's distracting or in any other way detracts from the music.  The music has to come first, always.

Offline ToT-147

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Bad music?.. Ok, it's clear that you do watch it with the sound muted.. :lol
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