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Do you put the shopping carts back in the corral?

Started by The Walrus, November 03, 2017, 07:59:45 AM

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Cool Chris

So, was at my local grocery store today and saw this situation...



My car is the black one in the foreground, with a nice spot maybe 6 places from the entry. There is a mini cart in the middle of the sidewalk. Is it a hazard? Maybe, but doubtful. A strong gust could conceivably steer it off the sidewalk and in to one of the parked cars. But those odds are slim, and even in that situation, it is traveling a short distance with little acceleration, so could it damage a car? Maybe, maybe not. I cannot say either with certainty. I wouldn't have left my cart there, but don't begrudge whomever did. I pushed it along side the string of 5 close to the wall.

There are 5 carts stacked along side the building. There is no chance of these blowing away, nor do they impede customers on the sidewalk in any way. This is a perfectly acceptable place to leave a cart because A) they are available for those entering the store via this entrance, 2) they do not present a hazard, and 3) they are neatly stacked for an employee to return them en masse to the store. When I left, I added my cart to this chain. And I will sleep perfectly well tonight.

Stadler

Can I bring this to a different level?    Maybe it is considerate, maybe it isn't.  We can go back and forth.  But why is it such an anathema to some people (NO, not people here, I mean generally) to just take themselves out of the equation, or, to phrase it differently, why do we always work to the lowest common denominator?   I'm as busy as the next guy, maybe moreso in some cases, but I don't sit there in the lot thinking "Well, fuck them and their fancy cars" or "WOW, I'm going to be an awesome, considerate person now and be a moral and social hero!"     But I take it back anyway, because at that point, there is no argument.   It MAY be overboard, but it appeases (most) everyone.  Same with the left hand lane.  Maybe I AM going 80.  Maybe you AREN'T going anywhere in front of me.  Maybe you ARE driving like an idiot.   It's not my place to be the moral crusader.   I move over, and let you deal with the issues in your life the way you want to.

I take myself out of the equation.  I think if more people took themselves out of the equation - and you can apply this to many other things as well, including politics, the rash of "abuses" that we're reading about, the NFL, and 100 other things - I tend to think the world would be, if not a better place, than at least a more calm, peaceful place.   Not everything has to be a battle, and not everything has to be a WIN at the expense of the other guy.

King Postwhore

Stadler, like your post, people overthink these situations.  Either you do it because you think it's the right thing to do or you don't, because the store should do it.  Morally you should, doesn't mean you do return the cart.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Nick

Quote from: kingshmegland on November 27, 2017, 07:05:54 AM
Stadler, like your post, people overthink these situations.  Either you do it because you think it's the right thing to do or you don't, because the store should do it.  Morally you should, doesn't mean you do return the cart.

Pretty much. Yes, you do not have any obligations with the cart, and legally (civilly) I think the only way you could be in any trouble is if you left a cart and it blew into someone while you were still there and it could be easily linked to you. That said, if you're physically able to put the cart back and you don't I think you're walking down a morally dubious road at best.

Stadler

No, I get your points, I meant my post much simpler than it came out.  I think I was saying that I DON'T think the choice is "It's the right thing to do" or "the store should do it".   I think I was saying that maybe "the right thing to do" has nothing to do with carts, or the store, or other drivers...

I sort of agree with you that we overcomplicate things, and maybe we should just focus on "taking ourselves out of the conversation".  It's against everything that society today says - "Twitter" and "Facebook" are the literal opposites of "taking yourself out of the conversation".   

King Postwhore

Nick I agree.

Stadler, It's the old Facebook issue.  If you have problems should you air them out on Facebook?  Some people emotionally have to get it out for whatever personal reasons good or bad.  Others will not burden their problems on Facebook and deal with it internally.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

TAC

Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Adami

[url="//www.fanticide.bandcamp.com"]www.fanticide.bandcamp.com[/url]

Implode

That's where the main disconnect is that has everyone up in arms. Pro-corral people are convinced there is a moral element to is. Pro-cart-choice people argue that morality isn't even relevant.

The Walrus


bosk1

Stadler pretty much nailed it. 

As far as Orbert's post, yeah, I agree that neither of those situations are cool.  For the record, neither of those situations are what I was talking about in my series of posts.

Evermind

Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 07:17:17 AM
Quote from: kingshmegland on November 27, 2017, 07:05:54 AM
Stadler, like your post, people overthink these situations.  Either you do it because you think it's the right thing to do or you don't, because the store should do it.  Morally you should, doesn't mean you do return the cart.

Pretty much. Yes, you do not have any obligations with the cart, and legally (civilly) I think the only way you could be in any trouble is if you left a cart and it blew into someone while you were still there and it could be easily linked to you. That said, if you're physically able to put the cart back and you don't I think you're walking down a morally dubious road at best.

I haven't posted here, because I usually don't participate in any heated discussions on this forum, but for what it's worth, I agree with this.

Maybe we should have a poll. :biggrin:
Quote from: Train of Naught on May 28, 2020, 10:57:25 PMThis first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Nick

Quote from: TAC on November 27, 2017, 09:01:37 AM
Morality has nothing to do with this.

Out of curiosity, don't you find it weird you need to write that sentence? Unless the choice comes down to wanting beef or chicken in your stir fry morality plays a part in just about everything.

TAC

Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 11:03:26 AM
Quote from: TAC on November 27, 2017, 09:01:37 AM
Morality has nothing to do with this.

Out of curiosity, don't you find it weird you need to write that sentence? Unless the choice comes down to wanting beef or chicken in your stir fry morality plays a part in just about everything.

Some people think it's morally wrong to eat animals. :P


Honestly, I wouldn't have referenced the word "morality" had I not seen it in a couple recent posts...

Quote from: kingshmegland on November 27, 2017, 07:05:54 AM
Morally you should, doesn't mean you do return the cart.

and
Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 07:17:17 AM
That said, if you're physically able to put the cart back and you don't I think you're walking down a morally dubious road at best.

I just can't get on board that this is a moral issue. Is it the "right thing to do"? I'm not sure. It apparently is not just a socially accepted practice, but according to this thread, it's a socially EXPECTED practice.

I'm a very polite person in real life, and I always, well usually apparently, do the right thing. I just never would've equated returning shopping carts as "doing the right thing".  And I just refuse to think I am some sort of heathen because of it.

Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

bosk1

Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 11:03:26 AM
Quote from: TAC on November 27, 2017, 09:01:37 AM
Morality has nothing to do with this.

Out of curiosity, don't you find it weird you need to write that sentence? Unless the choice comes down to wanting beef or chicken in your stir fry morality plays a part in just about everything.

Honestly, I find it weird that you find it weird.  :lol  There are plenty of decisions in life that we make on a day-to-day and moment-by-moment basis that are completely amoral and do not implicate morality whatsoever.  I'm with TAC in that this is one of those. 

Stadler

Quote from: TAC on November 27, 2017, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 11:03:26 AM
Quote from: TAC on November 27, 2017, 09:01:37 AM
Morality has nothing to do with this.

Out of curiosity, don't you find it weird you need to write that sentence? Unless the choice comes down to wanting beef or chicken in your stir fry morality plays a part in just about everything.

Some people think it's morally wrong to eat animals. :P


Honestly, I wouldn't have referenced the word "morality" had I not seen it in a couple recent posts...

Quote from: kingshmegland on November 27, 2017, 07:05:54 AM
Morally you should, doesn't mean you do return the cart.

and
Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 07:17:17 AM
That said, if you're physically able to put the cart back and you don't I think you're walking down a morally dubious road at best.

I just can't get on board that this is a moral issue. Is it the "right thing to do"? I'm not sure. It apparently is not just a socially accepted practice, but according to this thread, it's a socially EXPECTED practice.

I'm a very polite person in real life, and I always, well usually apparently, do the right thing. I just never would've equated returning shopping carts as "doing the right thing".  And I just refuse to think I am some sort of heathen because of it.

But you understand my point, right?   I don't think it IS a moral issue with respect to the cart itself.  You're not morally "better" or "worse" for bringing the cart back.  I think that analyzing our behavior in the light of dubious things like "carts" and "left hand passing lanes" is where we run afoul.   I think it IS a moral issue whether you decide to minimize your impact on others.    I get King's point about people needing to vent on Facebook, and I don't begrudge them (even if I don't see life that way) but I DO see a difference with just "throwing it out there" neutrally and "impacting others".   

I strongly feel I have a moral obligation to put myself in the position where others get to CHOOSE the degree to which I impact their life, as opposed to asserting my will on them unilaterally.   And, it should go without saying, vice versa.

TAC

Quote from: Stadler on November 27, 2017, 11:38:49 AM

But you understand my point, right?   

Not sure.  :lol

Quote from: Stadler on November 27, 2017, 11:38:49 AM
   I think it IS a moral issue whether you decide to minimize your impact on others.   

Yeah, I agree. And I try to live my life that way each day. I always try to be cool, and generally feel that I am. (I know how that must sound. :lol)

I just never thought what I do with my shopping cart could even factor into it.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

King Postwhore

Tim, in this day and age the store should take care of the carts.....but they mishandle it.  I believe, since I have way to many scuffs on my car as one example that we all morally should move the carts to the corral.  It's obvious food shopping all the time that stores do not allocate enough resources to maintaining the parking lot.

We as customers know this and to help another person from having these dents and scratch marks on our cars, we need to put the carts in the corrals.  It's the "moral" thing to do.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Podaar

As I tried to communicate earlier in this thread: the reason stores don't have the resources to police carts is because we as consumers have communicated that it is not a priority for us. We've done it to ourselves by voting with our money for whoever has the lowest price. It's just the reality of our times. The situation is neither good or bad.

I choose to look at it this way--because I care about my car, other people's cars, the available spaces (see Orbert's post), and helping my store keep costs down, I'll put my cart away...and usually another one or two besides.

I agree it's pretty silly to shame people who don't do likewise...unless they don't secure them from rolling. Then all bets are off  >:(

Nick

Quote from: bosk1 on November 27, 2017, 11:31:32 AM
Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 11:03:26 AM
Quote from: TAC on November 27, 2017, 09:01:37 AM
Morality has nothing to do with this.

Out of curiosity, don't you find it weird you need to write that sentence? Unless the choice comes down to wanting beef or chicken in your stir fry morality plays a part in just about everything.

Honestly, I find it weird that you find it weird.  :lol  There are plenty of decisions in life that we make on a day-to-day and moment-by-moment basis that are completely amoral and do not implicate morality whatsoever.  I'm with TAC in that this is one of those. 

I don't see how that can be. By making the decision to leave the cart you are in most cases deciding to either take away a good parking space and/or increase the chance that another person will have their property damaged. It's a little thing but it is absolutely a moral decision. It's of a magnitude that we make, often in the wrong direction, all the time, but to excuse it as amoral just because we don't want to accept our bad behavior is a bad precedent, I think.

I'll give an example. We just hosted our first Thanksgiving on Saturday, complete with making our first turkey. When carving the bird I got more than enough meat on a less than stellar start to my carve job. I knew that given more time and effort I could get more meat from the bird and decided I didn't want to bother with it and chose to waste the rest of the meat. Not something worth spending any time on or worrying about on a small individual basis, but it was an absolutely moral decision I was in the wrong on.

Cool Chris

Nick, how was it a "moral decision I was in the wrong on"? You said you got enough meat for all your guests. Are you considering it morally wrong that you possibly wasted food?

Nick

Quote from: Cool Chris on November 27, 2017, 03:26:35 PM
Nick, how was it a "moral decision I was in the wrong on"? You said you got enough meat for all your guests. Are you considering it morally wrong that you possibly wasted food?

Exactly, would have been the difference between 2 days of leftovers or 3.

bosk1

#197
Yeah, you have an odd definition of "morality" then.  That's about all I can say about that.

But as to the issue in this thread, again, IF THE CART IS PUT IN AN AREA WHERE IT DOESN'T TAKE UP A PARKING SPACE AND DOESN'T ROLL INTO CARS, I still can't see it as a "moral" issue even under your definition of "moral."

Nick

Quote from: bosk1 on November 27, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
Yeah, you have an odd definition of "morality" then.  That's about all I can say about that.

But as to the issue in this thread, again, IF THE CART IS PUT IN AN AREA WHERE IT DOESN'T TAKE UP A PARKING SPACE AND DOES ROLL INTO CARS, I still can't see it as a "moral" issue even under your definition of "moral."

Googled it: "principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior."

This basically is that exact definition. And I agree with you, if you have managed to put the cart in a place and a way where it doesn't adversely effect other people then I do not find it to be a poor moral choice.

bosk1

Then let me rephrase and say you have an odd way of applying that definition, because I do not see how the scenarios you gave apply to the words in that definition.

King Postwhore

Me me when a car is out in the open where it's safe and doesn't have a chance to roll into a car?

When does intellect overrule decency? People need to actually act decent and stop overthinking.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Adami

[url="//www.fanticide.bandcamp.com"]www.fanticide.bandcamp.com[/url]

King Postwhore

#202
 :lol


Feeling guilty is a strong emotion you sinners. :lol
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

TheSilentHam

I have a friend who considers it morally wrong to return carts.  His reasoning:  We have let companies eliminate service industry jobs by implementing things like shopping cart returns, just to theoretically save ourselves a few pennies on our grocery bills.  For the same reason, this friend leaves his trash at the seat in the movie theater.  I know this guy well enough to know he is not just lazy, and he is sincere about why he does these things.  Just saying - I don't think it's as black and white a moral issue as some have made it out to be.

TAC

Quote from: TheSilentHam on November 27, 2017, 04:51:36 PM
I have a friend who considers it morally wrong to return carts.  His reasoning:  We have let companies eliminate service industry jobs by implementing things like shopping cart returns, just to theoretically save ourselves a few pennies on our grocery bills.  For the same reason, this friend leaves his trash at the seat in the movie theater.  I know this guy well enough to know he is not just lazy, and he is sincere about why he does these things.  Just saying - I don't think it's as black and white a moral issues as some have made it out to be.

That's an interesting perspective. I've been known to leave my popcorn container under the seat at a movie or at a game.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Cool Chris

Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 03:40:37 PM
Quote from: Cool Chris on November 27, 2017, 03:26:35 PM
Nick, how was it a "moral decision I was in the wrong on"? You said you got enough meat for all your guests. Are you considering it morally wrong that you possibly wasted food?

Exactly, would have been the difference between 2 days of leftovers or 3.

Do you really apply a personal moral code to such minutiae in life?

Harmony

Quote from: Implode on November 22, 2017, 09:48:05 AM
Because shopping carts and their placement in corrals is a deeply personal subject for many people.

Who knew?   :|

Nick

Quote from: Cool Chris on November 27, 2017, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: Nick on November 27, 2017, 03:40:37 PM
Quote from: Cool Chris on November 27, 2017, 03:26:35 PM
Nick, how was it a "moral decision I was in the wrong on"? You said you got enough meat for all your guests. Are you considering it morally wrong that you possibly wasted food?

Exactly, would have been the difference between 2 days of leftovers or 3.

Do you really apply a personal moral code to such minutiae in life?

Apply in what way? I'm not giving myself lashes or anything, but I accept that I made a poor choice as opposed to denying there was good or bad in the choice.

Quote from: TAC on November 27, 2017, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: TheSilentHam on November 27, 2017, 04:51:36 PM
I have a friend who considers it morally wrong to return carts.  His reasoning:  We have let companies eliminate service industry jobs by implementing things like shopping cart returns, just to theoretically save ourselves a few pennies on our grocery bills.  For the same reason, this friend leaves his trash at the seat in the movie theater.  I know this guy well enough to know he is not just lazy, and he is sincere about why he does these things.  Just saying - I don't think it's as black and white a moral issues as some have made it out to be.

That's an interesting perspective. I've been known to leave my popcorn container under the seat at a movie or at a game.

It is an interesting perspective, but outside of the person in the story I would say overwhelmingly that decision is made out of laziness rather than a deeply help belief. In either case it's different than what we're discussing because movie theaters have a schedule that changes things. You see movie, you leave, they clean, then they let a new group in. With the carts there is no way of knowing if/when your cart will be picked up.

TAC

But the stores have people assigned to clear the lot.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

King Postwhore

Quote from: TAC on November 27, 2017, 06:54:14 PM
But the stores have people assigned to clear the lot.

Tim how many times has the lot been mismanaged? I'll answer that for you a ton.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.