Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[cramx3]

I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I always wondered if SOA went out on a support tour for a bigger band if that would have helped win over fans.  Their live show was good enough that I thought they could.  Imagine they got the opening slot on a summer shed tour supporting Disturbed or something?  Or even A7X?  Put them in front of rock fans who have no idea who they are and let their master musicianship take over.  Too bad we'll never know. 

[Madman Shepherd]

With very few exceptions, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And MP wasn't the exception in DT's case. However, after the first album without him, which kind of seemed like an improvement, they kept doing more of the same and lost me entirely. At least I realized that MP wasn't the "problem" with DT - it was me.

Fascinating comment. What do you mean by that specifically though.

[HOF]

I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.

I think The Winery Dogs were kind of that band with a little more commercial success (they were being played on Monday Night Football, the tours seemed to do well, etc.). SOA was originally conceived to fill the time while Ritchie was doing solo stuff. I know Mike made some statements that TWD were the band he wanted to really focus on and develop. SOA always seemed kind of thrown together by comparison.

[Trav86]

I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.

I think The Winery Dogs were kind of that band with a little more commercial success (they were being played on Monday Night Football, the tours seemed to do well, etc.). SOA was originally conceived to fill the time while Ritchie was doing solo stuff. I know Mike made some statements that TWD were the band he wanted to really focus on and develop. SOA always seemed kind of thrown together by comparison.

Yeah because TWD is relatively successful.  They’re just a good rock band. Not trying to be a hard rock/prog metal band.  Or whatever SOA is trying to be.

And I don’t think a coincidence that he put together a band like AMOB right after losing the AX7 gig. Obviously going for that style.

[Madman Shepherd]

I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.

I think The Winery Dogs were kind of that band with a little more commercial success (they were being played on Monday Night Football, the tours seemed to do well, etc.). SOA was originally conceived to fill the time while Ritchie was doing solo stuff. I know Mike made some statements that TWD were the band he wanted to really focus on and develop. SOA always seemed kind of thrown together by comparison.

Not to nitpick but the Winery Dogs was literally thrown together. I mean, Eddie Trunk was like, hey go jam with Ritchie and it took off.

SOA was relatively planned. Obviously Derek and Mike but also Mike had wanted to work with Bumble for a while. I think k Mike had been plotting this with Soto since he opened for Winery Dogs.

I would say that Billy was kind of thrown into the mix though.

[Kram]

I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.

Man, he really miscalculated that one then lol. 

[MirrorMask]

Are we all ignoring that Flying Colors is a thing? a band with Steve Morse that writes catchy songs? that should have been the breakthrough band in a just and fair world. I mean, give the song Kayla to any other estabilished artist and see how it tops every chart.

Maybe they should have stuck with the concept of great musicians writing "simple" music rather than turning it into the Neal Morse Band Lite Version.

[abydos]

With very few exceptions, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And MP wasn't the exception in DT's case. However, after the first album without him, which kind of seemed like an improvement, they kept doing more of the same and lost me entirely. At least I realized that MP wasn't the "problem" with DT - it was me.

Fascinating comment. What do you mean by that specifically though.

Sure, it's in the context of playing in a bigger band getting in the head of MP and then him thinking that the fans will follow him in bigger numbers that someone posted.

Leading up to his departure, I really thought Mike was leading DT in a more generic and boring direction. I perceived them as by the numbers in large parts, especially his conflict with LaBrie. When he left, I thought that was a blessing for DT and the album leading to that was a "return to form" of sorts. At least to me, it sounded more fresh, but after that things went just as they had been before that. Took me a while and seeing them twice live to realize that my tastes had changed with regards to the band more so than them being by the numbers or "uninspired". They still sound like that to me, but seeing thousands of people around me losing their shit to music from the last few albums gave me a bit of a reality check.

[Metro]

I don’t have a source on this, but I recall MP saying something along the lines of “SOA is what DT would sound like if I had my way.”

[Trav86]

I don’t have a source on this, but I recall MP saying something along the lines of “SOA is what DT would sound like if I had my way.”

[ReaperKK]

I don’t have a source on this, but I recall MP saying something along the lines of “SOA is what DT would sound like if I had my way.”

If that's the case I'm really happy he didn't have his way

[Cocopjojo]

Are we all ignoring that Flying Colors is a thing? a band with Steve Morse that writes catchy songs? that should have been the breakthrough band in a just and fair world. I mean, give the song Kayla to any other estabilished artist and see how it tops every chart.

Maybe they should have stuck with the concept of great musicians writing "simple" music rather than turning it into the Neal Morse Band Lite Version.

I assumed that since the first album didn't come even remotely close to having any mainstream success, then they just reverted to doing what they enjoy and are comfortable with.

[Madman Shepherd]

With very few exceptions, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And MP wasn't the exception in DT's case. However, after the first album without him, which kind of seemed like an improvement, they kept doing more of the same and lost me entirely. At least I realized that MP wasn't the "problem" with DT - it was me.

Fascinating comment. What do you mean by that specifically though.

Sure, it's in the context of playing in a bigger band getting in the head of MP and then him thinking that the fans will follow him in bigger numbers that someone posted.

Leading up to his departure, I really thought Mike was leading DT in a more generic and boring direction. I perceived them as by the numbers in large parts, especially his conflict with LaBrie. When he left, I thought that was a blessing for DT and the album leading to that was a "return to form" of sorts. At least to me, it sounded more fresh, but after that things went just as they had been before that. Took me a while and seeing them twice live to realize that my tastes had changed with regards to the band more so than them being by the numbers or "uninspired". They still sound like that to me, but seeing thousands of people around me losing their shit to music from the last few albums gave me a bit of a reality check.

Ah cool. That's what I thought. I feel like a lot of people grow out of music and feel like it must be the band.

[HOF]

I had a similar experience with DT. From SFAM on, it felt like I liked each album a little less than the previous one. When I heard Octavarium I really started to think the band’s and my tastes were just diverging too far. Then SC confirmed that suspicion. I do remember also thinking MP might have something to do with it (he was becoming more and more about metal over that period, and I was becoming less and less about it). But his leaving didn’t do anything to change my interest in DT’s new music, and I’ve followed MP’s subsequent projects with much more interest than DT.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Are we all ignoring that Flying Colors is a thing? a band with Steve Morse that writes catchy songs? that should have been the breakthrough band in a just and fair world. I mean, give the song Kayla to any other estabilished artist and see how it tops every chart.

Maybe they should have stuck with the concept of great musicians writing "simple" music rather than turning it into the Neal Morse Band Lite Version.

Flying Colors was always limited by Steve's schedule with Deep Purple.

[Madman Shepherd]

I don’t have a source on this, but I recall MP saying something along the lines of “SOA is what DT would sound like if I had my way.”

You sure about that? I kept up with SOA pretty well and I don't remember him saying anything like that.

[Schurftkut]

i do, it was all part of him trying to one-up what DT was doing, and him wanting to show that this new band is heavier etc than DT with the high vocals and ipad solos

[gzarruk]

I remember reading that at some point too. He said something like that's the direction he would've taken the band towards after BC&SL.

[Trav86]

I remember reading that at some point too. He said something like that's the direction he would've taken the band towards after BC&SL.

I would take ADTOE over Sons of Apollo eight days a week.

[TAC]

I remember reading that at some point too. He said something like that's the direction he would've taken the band towards after BC&SL.

I would take ADTOE over Sons of Apollo eight days a week.

There's not a single post MP DT album that I wouldn't take over SOA.

[nick_z]

I remember reading that at some point too. He said something like that's the direction he would've taken the band towards after BC&SL.

I would take ADTOE over Sons of Apollo eight days a week.

There's not a single post MP DT album that I wouldn't take over SOA.

While I did enjoy SOA's debut, I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.

[Madman Shepherd]

I would take any post-MP DT release over any post-DT MP release.

Wait, shit...I forgot The Astonishing exists.

This just got difficult.

Well, I like three songs on TA and they're pretty strong. But that's still maybe 5-10% of the album.

I like half of SOA's PS but they're not particularly strong, just really good.

I like most of SOA's MMXX but I have the same view.

So yeah, it's almost a wash with that one.

But the rest of MP's catalog? Never did much for me.

Embarassingly I kind of like Adrenaline Mob's Undaunted and their cover of Come Undone.

[Fritzinger]

Well, there's still The Similitude Of A Dream and The Great Adventure, which are fantastic in my opinion. And much better than DT12 for instance.

[abydos]

I'd take the first 40 seconds of At Wit's End over anything MP post-DT. Basically, DT was the only music interest "we" shared. I was excited for Adrenaline Mob at first but when I heard it - it didn't vibe with me at all.

[Madman Shepherd]

I really wanted to like Metal Allegiance but it never did much for me.

[Grappler]

I really wanted to like Metal Allegiance but it never did much for me.

I like the two records, but they just write songs that sound like the singer's main bands.  I really want them to throw each singer a curve ball and have them do something completely different.

Their live shows look like they're a ton of fun though. 

[DTwwbwMP]

I would take any post-MP DT release over any post-DT MP release.

My post-MP DT & post-DT MP release rankings:
NMB - Similitude of a Dream
Dream Theater - A Dramatic Turn of Events
NMB - The Grand Experiment
NMB - The Great Adventure
Transatlantic - Kaleidoscope
Sons of Apollo - Psychotic Symphony
Flying Colors
Neal Morse - Testimony 2
Flying Colors - Second Nature
Neal Morse - Momentum
Dream Theater - Dream Theater
Sons of Apollo - MMXX
Transatlantic - The Absolute Universe
The Winery Dogs
John Petrucci - Terminal Velocity
NMB - Innocence & Danger
LTE - 3
Dream Theater - A View From The Top of The World
The Winery Dogs - Hot Streak
Flying Colors - Third Degree
Bigelf - Into The Maelstrom
Dream Theater - Distance Over Time
Adrenaline Mob - Omerta
The Winery Dogs - III
Dream Theater - The Astonishing*
*any post DT MP releases that rank lower than The Astonishing are not worth mentioning!

[Metro]

I don't feel like ranking all the albums, but I'll rank his post-DT projects. Not counting Transatlantic or LTE as they were started before he left.

1. NMB
2. Flying Colors
3. The Winery Dogs
4. PSMS
5. Sons of Apollo
6. Metal Allegiance
7. Adrenaline Mob
8. Getting kicked in the teeth
9. BPMD

[HOF]

I mostly just like The Winery Dogs and Flying Colors, but I really enjoyed at least the first 2 albums from both of those (need to revisit the third TWD again). Don’t really care for any of his other projects (or the post-split DT either).

[bosk1]

I'll play.  Just my top 10:

1.  Dream Theater - A Dramatic Turn of Events
2.  Dream Theater - Dream Theater
3.  NMB - The Great Adventure
4.  Dream Theater - A View From The Top of The World
5.  Dream Theater - Distance Over Time
6.  Dream Theater - The Astonishing
7.  NMB - Similitude of a Dream
8.  Transatlantic - The Absolute Universe
9.  Sons of Apollo - Psychotic Symphony
10.  NMB - The Grand Experiment

I can honestly say that during this stretch of time, DT and projects MP were part of released a LOT of my favorite music.  But all of the DT releases are at my very top.  Some of the stuff Mike was involved in was fantastic.  Others were a miss for me.  Others were in between.  And that's all okay.  Bottom line is that a lot of great music was released under a lot of different banners.

[Fritzinger]

I mostly just like The Winery Dogs and Flying Colors, but I really enjoyed at least the first 2 albums from both of those (need to revisit the third TWD again). Don’t really care for any of his other projects (or the post-split DT either).

Not even the Neal Morse Band albums? I thought they seem like something you'd like.

[cramx3]

well I guess we all know why Bumblefoot said what he said recently.  Looks like MP will be too busy for SOA.

[gzarruk]

This is gonna piss Derek even more

[hefdaddy42]

This is gonna piss Derek even more

That's fine.

[MirrorMask]

This is gonna piss Derek even more

I thought about it as well