Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[RodrigoAltaf]

 I wonder what kind of phoenix will rise from the ashes of SOA...wink wink.

[Orbert]

There’s a list of great musicians who have stepped up to play on Derek’s records over the years. If he were that much of a POS, why would they keep coming back? It ain’t for the money!

Interesting point.  I'm one of those who can usually separate the art from the artist; in other words, I don't really care much if Derek is an asshole, I still like his playing and most of his stuff is pretty good.  I'm sure it's different when you actually have to work with someone, but maybe there are enough guys who'll just put up with his shit because he's great to jam with.  Or it could be that it really is all an act, and once you get to know him, he's pretty cool.  We really don't know.

[Architeuthis]

SOA was fun while it lasted. I liked their first album and their live performance was awesome! Their second album didn't do much for me. Maybe I'll give it another listen sometime soon.
I would rather see MP put his efforts more towards NMB than anything else at this point. I also wouldn't mind if MP would do a project with Devin Townsend. However, Devin is not short on good drummers in his trajectory.. 😁

[Ben_Jamin]

Does anyone still watch their live with Orchestra live show much. That is where I start to feel they themselves as being bigger than what they are. Doing that type of thing would've been better after 2 or 3 Albums. It is odd to me they did that so early in their career where half of it cover songs.

[ReaperKK]

I just realized I still have the sons of apollo forum theme

[Skeever]

I know that this band was supposed to be Mike Portnoy's progressive metal band, but they never really felt like that to me. Sure they had grand intros, they had instrumentals, they had solos, but from a songwriting perspective they just made me think of your typical post-grunge type music. Although everybody was good at what they did, I just don't think of any of those guys as great creative minds.

Doesn't really phase me that they are gone. The second album was slightly better than the first, but I doubt they were ever going to turn into a legit progressive metal force.

[Stadler]

I know that this band was supposed to be Mike Portnoy's progressive metal band, but they never really felt like that to me. Sure they had grand intros, they had instrumentals, they had solos, but from a songwriting perspective they just made me think of your typical post-grunge type music. Although everybody was good at what they did, I just don't think of any of those guys as great creative minds.

Doesn't really phase me that they are gone. The second album was slightly better than the first, but I doubt they were ever going to turn into a legit progressive metal force.

For me, it was all the vocals.   Jeff is a great singer, great frontman, and from all accounts an amazing guy, but... FOR ME he wasn't right in that setting.   There were too many instruments fighting for the same bandwidth already, and his vocals didn't - FOR ME - cut above.    I've long called Dream Theater (at least when I got into them) as "Rush meets Maiden, with Steve Perry singing" and that's what I felt was necessary for me to like it.  I get - and very much respect - that Jeff was playing a long game with his vocals vis-a-vis touring, but it didn't make for compelling music, IMO.

[King Postwhore]

The songwriting never did it for me.

[Kwyjibo]

I really like Derek's solo records, there's some great songs on there. But either he's better at writing instrumental music or his songwwiting skills didn't work with Sons Of Apollo. Both records were okay, with the second one slightly better, but the songs weren't really special.

And JSS singing like he did didn't help things.

On the bright side, the band did introduce me to Bumblefoot and he's an tremendous player.

[ZirconBlue]

I may be misremembering, but there was an interview with JSS where he indicated that Derek kept telling him to bring the vocals down.

[Trav86]

The songwriting never did it for me.

It was like prog Adrenaline Mob.

[Kwyjibo]

I may be misremembering, but there was an interview with JSS where he indicated that Derek kept telling him to bring the vocals down.

I don't know if Derek told JSS to bring the vocals down, but I remember him saying, that he had a clear idea how the vocals should sound, so maybe it's his fault. But then I was never a big fan of JSS' singing, so I don't know if it would have been better had JSS been given free reign.

[Grappler]

Does anyone still watch their live with Orchestra live show much. That is where I start to feel they themselves as being bigger than what they are. Doing that type of thing would've been better after 2 or 3 Albums. It is odd to me they did that so early in their career where half of it cover songs.

The promoter went to the band with the idea.  "I'll give you the venue, the orchestra and a list of cover songs that the orchestra knows."  I don't fault the band for taking the offer and releasing it.  The cover songs bore the hell out of me on that release though.  I do love the live versions of the original songs and the few DT songs they did.

As for the band, I think it was just like Adrenaline Mob - oooh, Portnoy and Allen or Portnoy and Sherinian together?  They're going to "out widdly-widdly" DT.  When the music wasn't similar to DT, I think some fans didn't care for it, especially after them talking up the fact that it was a prog band.  If they had been more honest and said "hey, we're just going to rock," I think it may have done a bit better and fans expectations would have been tempered a bit. 

Sucks to know that they're done as a band - I really liked the two records.

[hefdaddy42]

SOA never made any music that moved me in any way.  And I listened to everything they made, since there were multiple musicians involved in the project that I respect.

For me, it just didn't work, and made no impact whatsoever.  If they are done, great!  That will give those musicians I mentioned more time and availability to do stuff I might like more lol

[bosk1]

I know that this band was supposed to be Mike Portnoy's progressive metal band, but they never really felt like that to me. Sure they had grand intros, they had instrumentals, they had solos, but from a songwriting perspective they just made me think of your typical post-grunge type music. Although everybody was good at what they did, I just don't think of any of those guys as great creative minds.

Doesn't really phase me that they are gone. The second album was slightly better than the first, but I doubt they were ever going to turn into a legit progressive metal force.

To me, it was a lot of borrowing what Sherinian and Portnoy took from their time in DT, combining it with a more straightforward rock background from Bumblefoot and Soto, and having Portnoy arrange the songs into a "typical," "prog by numbers" song arrangement.  And while the latter part of that sentence may sound like I am slamming them, it's not meant that way.  Listening to their songs, there was some of that typical prog my numbers feel that made even the songs with more nonstandard arrangements somewhat predictable, I still felt that they were solid, enjoyable songs that worked just fine in the context of what they were doing.  I liked the first album quite a bit.  The second was more of the same, although I ultimately felt that it was not as consistent and, as a result, not quite as good.  In fact, I remember when writing my review of the album, struggling with how to not sound negative while basically saying, "If you liked the first album, you will probably like this one, because it just sounds like what could have been leftovers from those sessions." 

At the end of the day, I would have liked another album since I enjoyed a lot of songs from the first two.  But I'm not overly upset about not getting one either.

[gzarruk]

I really like Derek's solo records, there's some great songs on there. But either he's better at writing instrumental music or his songwwiting skills didn't work with Sons Of Apollo. Both records were okay, with the second one slightly better, but the songs weren't really special.

The thing is that even on his solo records, he has co-writers. At first it was Virgil (which merged into Planet X), and then Simon Phillips. Not dissing Derek at all, but it seems like he needs the input from those other writers to come up with something great.

Same thing with Mike, he needs to be around great writers (Morse, Petrucci, Rudess, Stolt, Kotzen, etc) for the project to be good. His "master arranger touch" can't do much to save an album if the material doesn't come from a strong source first.

[Kyo]

The thing I had hoped this band would do but never happened was them writing their own ACOS (20+ min epic). They came close with New World Today, but that had many recycled sections from Derek's solo work + some from the first album.

They reused quite a bit of Derek's earlier material on the two SoA albums. It's one reason why I couldn't enjoy the music that much.

Blood of the Snake 3:24-4:15 -> God of the Sun 5:20-6:51 (first as a vocal section, then as a solo section)
State of Delirium 0:34 -> Desolate July 3:16 and 3:59
The Sons of Anu 4:19 -> Fall to Ascend 2:39 and 4:08
Ascension 0:31-2:02 -> New World Today 0:00-1:42
Day of the Dead 3:15-5:15 -> New World Today 10:42-12:42

Plus there was the obvious similarity to Dream Theater's New Millennium 1:51 in the intro of Goodbye Divinity. But those listed above are far more substantial.

[gzarruk]

The thing I had hoped this band would do but never happened was them writing their own ACOS (20+ min epic). They came close with New World Today, but that had many recycled sections from Derek's solo work + some from the first album.

They reused quite a bit of Derek's earlier material on the two SoA albums. It's one reason why I couldn't enjoy the music that much.

Blood of the Snake 3:24-4:15 -> God of the Sun 5:20-6:51 (first as a vocal section, then as a solo section)
State of Delirium 0:34 -> Desolate July 3:16 and 3:59
The Sons of Anu 4:19 -> Fall to Ascend 2:39 and 4:08
Ascension 0:31-2:02 -> New World Today 0:00-1:42
Day of the Dead 3:15-5:15 -> New World Today 10:42-12:42

Plus there was the obvious similarity to Dream Theater's New Millennium 1:51 in the intro of Goodbye Divinity. But those listed above are far more substantial.

I never noticed the ones from State of Delirium and Sons of Anu, but yeah they're all there. Also, the solo from Day of the Dead, which got repeated on New World Today was first borrowed for the solo on Opus Maximus (6:43)

[Schurftkut]

that's kinda funny, when MP was vocal about ADTOE being "copied" from images, he comes with an album full of rehashed stuff 

[bosk1]

In fairness, I wouldn't say he was "vocal" about it.  He just responded to what somebody else said, and in doing so, he wasn't even really critical, as I recall, and just making an observation.  So I don't think that's actually a fair criticism.

[gzarruk]

In fairness, I wouldn't say he was "vocal" about it.  He just responded to what somebody else said, and in doing so, he wasn't even really critical, as I recall, and just making an observation.  So I don't think that's actually a fair criticism.

The comment about the album was in response to someone else, yes, but he did go out of his way to talk about BMU, BMD being very similar to a song by the band RED. In fact, here's the actual quote:

"Check out the first song on [John Petrucci's] fave album of the year.... WOW, the arrangement and orchestration sounds awfully familiar!! Surely it must be an intentional 'nugget' for the fans... It couldn't possibly be blatant formula plagiarism, now could it...?? I just have to laugh..."

https://blabbermouth.net/news/did-dream-theater-draw-inspiration-from-christian-rock-band-mike-portnoy-seems-to-think-so

I clearly remember reading this and going because this is the same guy who came up with the idea for Never Enough.

[bosk1]

Oh, okay.  Fair enough.  That is a bit more on the nose than I remembered. 

[Kyo]

I never noticed the ones from State of Delirium and Sons of Anu, but yeah they're all there. Also, the solo from Day of the Dead, which got repeated on New World Today was first borrowed for the solo on Opus Maximus (6:43)

Oh boy, you're right! 

I don't think I made it through Opus Maximus more than once (if that), so I never noticed.

[Trav86]

Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

[gzarruk]

Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

I obviously can't speak for them, but I don't think that was the case for at least some of those. On the MMXX booklet there are different section titles for New World Today and two of those are Ascension and Day of the Dead for their respective parts. I don't think Derek tried to keep this a secret.

[Trav86]

Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

I obviously can't speak for them, but I don't think that was the case for at least some of those. On the MMXX booklet there are different section titles for New World Today and two of those are Ascension and Day of the Dead for their respective parts. I don't think Derek tried to keep this a secret.

Has anyone else noticed how Asphyxiation is just a re-write of Just Let Me Breathe? I’m assuming I’m not the only one because it’s pretty obvious. The riff, the instrumental section, even the title.

[Madman Shepherd]

Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

I obviously can't speak for them, but I don't think that was the case for at least some of those. On the MMXX booklet there are different section titles for New World Today and two of those are Ascension and Day of the Dead for their respective parts. I don't think Derek tried to keep this a secret.

Has anyone else noticed how Asphyxiation is just a re-write of Just Let Me Breathe? I’m assuming I’m not the only one because it’s pretty obvious. The riff, the instrumental section, even the title.

I don't really see/hear that at all.

I am looking forward to checking out the similarities Kyo posted though.

Btw, not borrowing from themselves but straight up ripping off others, the verse of King of Delusion is 85% Perry Mason by Ozzy.

[porcacultor]

Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

I obviously can't speak for them, but I don't think that was the case for at least some of those. On the MMXX booklet there are different section titles for New World Today and two of those are Ascension and Day of the Dead for their respective parts. I don't think Derek tried to keep this a secret.

Has anyone else noticed how Asphyxiation is just a re-write of Just Let Me Breathe? I’m assuming I’m not the only one because it’s pretty obvious. The riff, the instrumental section, even the title.

I don't really see/hear that at all.

I am looking forward to checking out the similarities Kyo posted though.

Btw, not borrowing from themselves but straight up ripping off others, the verse of King of Delusion is 85% Perry Mason by Ozzy.

Not just Perry Mason, but have you heard Derek's Black Utopia (the song, not the album)? Pretty much the same structure and ideas used for King of Delusion.

EDIT:

I am pretty bummed that this band is no more, regardless of copping Derek's prior material... They were fun. Maybe they lacked more adventurous management? Different production? With these "big fish in their respective ponds" lineups, scheduling can be tough.

Coming Home had the makings of a greater hit than it was. Who knows what happened... but this sucks. Probably my favorite post-DT Portnoy project overall.

[cramx3]

With these "big fish in their respective ponds" lineups, scheduling can be tough.

I have to imagine that was an issue.  These guys needed to commit themselves to this band so they could let ideas flow and evolve for their music over time.  They just don't have the time to do that if they are in ther bands as well.  I would blame this as the most likely reason for rehashed ideas and inconsistent albums.  They never allowed themselves to take the time truly flesh out songs artistically. 

Take for example, Code Orange who's new album features Max Portnoy.  In an interview the singer said they had been working on it for 3 years.  Didn't SOA write an album in 3 weeks? That Code Orange album is incredible, and it likely has a lot to do with the band giving the music TLC that it needs.

[ReaperKK]

I think that's kind of the issue I have with a lot of MP projects. He gets in and knocks out a bunch of songs with whoever he is working with and calls it wrap and honestly it shows. I know there are a lot of great albums written in a short period of time but the ones MP has contributed to, like SoA, sound like they were just slapped together.

[TAC]

When I listened to SOA, it just screamed "product".

[RodrigoAltaf]

I just interviewed Felipe Andreoli of Angra - they have a new album coming out in a few weeks which is the best they have done in many years. He confirmed that that the SOA guys told him back then that  they had no plans after the last tour in South America.

[Metro]

Listening to both albums today since I haven’t listened to either since they were released. First one is just as unremarkable and unimaginative as I remember.

[Madman Shepherd]

There’s a list of great musicians who have stepped up to play on Derek’s records over the years. If he were that much of a POS, why would they keep coming back? It ain’t for the money!

Maybe he knows his place. I'm sure he isn't giving Billy Idol or Zakk Wylde as much shit as he gave Soto.

[Nachtmerrie]

Listening to both albums today since I haven’t listened to either since they were released. First one is just as unremarkable and unimaginative as I remember.

Listened to both yesterday during work. It´s a bunch of average songs played by great musicians. If you put expectations aside I would say the albums are pretty good. The point is most of us expected a lot more considering the names involved.