Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[cramx3]

Yup, just like they don't need to be better than Dream Theater. But if the prog epic is their thing, then they just need to do it better.  Of their long songs, I only really like God of the Sun.

[Adami]

Yup, just like they don't need to be better than Dream Theater. But if the prog epic is their thing, then they just need to do it better.  Of their long songs, I only really like God of the Sun.

Also an option. I just think they demonstrated a skill set and a niche that isn’t over saturated with the fun groovy party rock thing. The long instrumental tough guy prog metal genre is well saturated and they don’t seem to be doing a good enough job of it to stick out. But in the end I’m glad they’re doing what makes them happy. We should all only be so lucky.

[devieira73]

It's a JSS interview and it doesn't have any news about SoA, but what I found really interesting is how much he's honest about the changes in his voice and to admit that he can't sing a lot of his material anymore (from 40:34 on):
https://youtu.be/17f1CM2oqeM
I guess it's rare a renowed vocalist being really open about it.

[nobloodyname]

Only watched from the recommended timestamp but that was fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

[Madman Shepherd]

Soto just seems like a really likable, down to earth dude. I saw an interview with him from a while back where he was talking about his W.E.T. side project and how it's designed to be a studio only project because he cannot sustain those types of vocals for a tour. He did say that he would be able to do a one off show perhaps.

If anybody hasn't heard that band it really beckons back to some of the 80s, poppier songs with his more traditional vocals.

[ProfessorPeart]

Bumblefoot pretty much saying the band is done.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/bumblefoot-on-status-of-sons-of-apollo-i-hope-everybody-enjoyed-it-past-tense

[MirrorMask]

The number of people surprised will be very low.

[Kocak]

I think they were expecting to be viewed as the next big prog band and they weren't received that well by the fans, so they were disheartened. I see no point in them making another album to be honest. The first two did not interest me at all.

[gzarruk]

I watched the interview the other day but forgot to come here to post it. It's not surprising really, though I admit I had warmed up to them recently and now they won't release anything else
There's a solid album there if you combine the best songs from both releases.

The way he worded it, it seem it was either Mike and/or Billy who pulled the plug, considering Ron's still working with both Jeff and Derek.

[Madman Shepherd]

The way he worded it, it seem it was either Mike and/or Billy who pulled the plug, considering Ron's still working with both Jeff and Derek.

That was my read too. I remember an interview with Soto where he explained the song Goodbye Divinity was about the desire to keep struggling with a band that's your passion and he even said after the first album there was a lot of question about whether they should even continue.

I watched the interview the other day but forgot to come here to post it. It's not surprising really, though I admit I had warmed up to them recently and now they won't release anything else
There's a solid album there if you combine the best songs from both releases

I actually think their second album was pretty solid through and through. Their problem was twofold: 1) their first album seemed like half filler and half really good metal with a prog lean and 2)like was stated previously, they thought they'd be the next big prog metal band and they were a little short in the prog.

[Trav86]

I would imagine that Mike and Billy didn’t want to waste time on something that didn’t have much of a draw. They can spend more time with The Winery Dogs which seem to be pretty successful. They’ve toured a ton this year, and it looks like they do well worldwide.

[MinistroRaven]

-
Now seriously is this band still a thing?

Nope! 

[cramx3]

The way he worded it, it seem it was either Mike and/or Billy who pulled the plug, considering Ron's still working with both Jeff and Derek.

That was my read too.

That was also how I took this, but for some reason, I thought Bumblefoot was initially the one who didn't want to continue due to touring.  I could be completely wrong.

No surprise the band is done.  But honestly, Winery Dogs are only a bit more successful.  I think they would just need to put more effort into making a good full album with this band, and maybe with this group of musicians, it's just too difficult to focus that much attention to it considering they all have other options. 

It didn't work out.  Their live shows were awesome (saw them 3 times) but the albums were just OK. It needed more TLC and a humbleness as a new band. 

[Setlist Scotty]

The way he worded it, it seem it was either Mike and/or Billy who pulled the plug, considering Ron's still working with both Jeff and Derek.

That was my read too. I remember an interview with Soto where he explained the song Goodbye Divinity was about the desire to keep struggling with a band that's your passion and he even said after the first album there was a lot of question about whether they should even continue.

I watched the interview the other day but forgot to come here to post it. It's not surprising really, though I admit I had warmed up to them recently and now they won't release anything else
There's a solid album there if you combine the best songs from both releases

I actually think their second album was pretty solid through and through. Their problem was twofold: 1) their first album seemed like half filler and half really good metal with a prog lean and 2)like was stated previously, they thought they'd be the next big prog metal band and they were a little short in the prog.

I think the big factor that screwed things up for them with the first album was all of the crap-talk from Derek during the initial promo. While he never specifically spoke of Jordan, his negative comments were so thinly veiled that it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who he was referring to.

And then the pandemic ruined things for them, as they were just starting to gain some momentum, which is what I gather from Bumblefoot's comments in the interview.

Personally I think it's a shame as I really like the band, moreso than any of MP's other post-DT bands aside from perhaps FC, and I honestly think they could've done something amazing given enough time. Wish I would've gotten to see them live as well, but it wasn't possible.

[DTwwbwMP]

Personally, for me this is crappy news. Other than NMB, SOA were my 2nd favorite post DT MP band. Liked both albums and thought they were great LIVE! I know they weren't liked here, but color me pissed! Oh well.

[Lethean]

I think the big factor that screwed things up for them with the first album was all of the crap-talk from Derek during the initial promo. While he never specifically spoke of Jordan, his negative comments were so thinly veiled that it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who he was referring to.

Yeah that didn't help.  I think he took some shots at James as well.  For me, that band was never going to be my thing.  Seemed really lackluster overall, and Jeff Scott Soto (who I like) didn't sound all that great to me.  But, I *really* disliked Adrenaline Mob but I was happy to go see them live anyway just to be supportive of MP and Russell Allen, etc.  And I guess that could have be me with SOA too - not really liking it but supporting in some way, and then Derek was kind of a jerk and that pretty much sealed it.

[ProfessorPeart]

I thought the first album was just okay, but the second album was really good. I think a third might have been even better. Not a big loss, JSS was the weak link to me. They could've found a better vocalist.

[Metro]

Both albums were very unremarkable IMO. Coming out of the gate with such a pompous attitude definitely wasn't a good look. So much for the "New Kings of Prog Metal".

[Ben_Jamin]

The only song I really got into and enjoyed is Labyrinth. I never really listened to the 2nd album.

[Kocak]

Personally I think it's a shame as I really like the band, moreso than any of MP's other post-DT bands aside from perhaps FC, and I honestly think they could've done something amazing given enough time. Wish I would've gotten to see them live as well, but it wasn't possible.

This post of yours points to another problem of MP's post-DT career IMO: Quantity over quality does not work. There was this interview that I read of MP in which he categorised all his bands as "my metal side", "my prog side", "my rock side" and I don't think that works.

Years ago, he was asked about Neil Peart taking drum lessons from Freddie Gruber in the 90's, well into his career and he said that he might do something similar once his kids go off to college. His children are well into adulthood now and I think he could have done with a style refresh. The DT-style prog formula with different people doesn't catch people anymore. Just my two cents.

[Mladen]

The key thing here for me is that Bumblefoot writes how some members wanted to "keep working during the pandemic." It appears someone wanted to tour before it was safe, so there was a disagreement. Maybe it was another issue related to quarantining, vaccinations and that stuff, similar to what's happening with Symphony X to an extent. The pandemic really made an impact on certain bands.

[goo-goo]

I thought the first album was just okay, but the second album was really good. I think a third might have been even better. Not a big loss, JSS was the weak link to me. They could've found a better vocalist.

Same feelings. Instrumentally, both albums are very good. But vocally, I just never got into JSS in SoA or anything he has done for whatever reason.

[WilliamMunny]

I, for one, 'wanted' to love SOA, especially because of the high-esteem I hold FII in.

Between both albums, however, there are but a handful of songs that really grabbed me. Even listening back through this morning, the whole project feels rushed, from the composition to the recording.

I mean, I get it, time is money, and those schedules are very packed, but it's difficult to imagine a band coming together for the first time and banging out a masterpiece without the benefit of a tour behind them.

But, all of that aside, I will freely admit that Derek's antics in the press were a major turnoff to this 'potential' fan. I found all of it so distasteful, that I suspect it played a role in my initially being underwhelmed by the first album.


Kocak's point about "quality over quantity" is well stated, and pretty much sums up my thoughts on MP's post-DT career.

There's a few hits, but also a mountain of misses IMO.

[Madman Shepherd]

I thought the first album was just okay, but the second album was really good. I think a third might have been even better. Not a big loss, JSS was the weak link to me. They could've found a better vocalist.

Same feelings. Instrumentally, both albums are very good. But vocally, I just never got into JSS in SoA or anything he has done for whatever reason.

I mentioned this previously in the thread but JSS is open about his range not being what it once was. Still, he can get a great range it's just not sustainable which is why I think he limited himself to what he could do live night after night. Even so, he still modified the vocals in concert certain parts that aren't even that challenging but are tough to do in a 2 hour set, 5 days a week or whatever.

But, having said that, him and Derek really butted heads during the recording of the first album and the full details have never been revealed. I know Derek gave him crap for using the word "minotaur" in one of his lyrics but I wonder if Derek used the same rhetoric he did online when dealing with Soto. "Don't sing like your balls are in a vice" or "youre sounding too much like cock rock." I don't know if Derek used that exact terminology but it was something close.

I, for one, 'wanted' to love SOA, especially because of the high-esteem I hold FII in.

Between both albums, however, there are but a handful of songs that really grabbed me. Even listening back through this morning, the whole project feels rushed, from the composition to the recording.

I mean, I get it, time is money, and those schedules are very packed, but it's difficult to imagine a band coming together for the first time and banging out a masterpiece without the benefit of a tour behind them.

Their first album was definitely rushed. They wrote and recorded the thing in a week. The second one was birthed from a lot of jamming on tour, a week of solid writing and recording sessions, and then touch ups and additions on their own from home. It's a much more solid album and I think that's proof as to why.

[gzarruk]

The thing I had hoped this band would do but never happened was them writing their own ACOS (20+ min epic). They came close with New World Today, but that had many recycled sections from Derek's solo work + some from the first album.

Personally I think it's a shame as I really like the band, moreso than any of MP's other post-DT bands aside from perhaps FC, and I honestly think they could've done something amazing given enough time. Wish I would've gotten to see them live as well, but it wasn't possible.

This post of yours points to another problem of MP's post-DT career IMO: Quantity over quality does not work. There was this interview that I read of MP in which he categorised all his bands as "my metal side", "my prog side", "my rock side" and I don't think that works.

Years ago, he was asked about Neil Peart taking drum lessons from Freddie Gruber in the 90's, well into his career and he said that he might do something similar once his kids go off to college. His children are well into adulthood now and I think he could have done with a style refresh. The DT-style prog formula with different people doesn't catch people anymore. Just my two cents.

This is very true. I like MP a lot, but he seems to be so much more focused on checking items on his list than actually building things up from the ground. He takes a lot of pride for being the guy who can be in lots of bands, play shows with many of them in relatively short time, memorize multiple sets, record and release multiple albums every year, etc., but that's not really the key to success IMO. He seems to be so much more enamored with the idea of being in many bands at the same time rather than putting the effort on making them grow properly.

This also leads to the question: what's next for Mike? TA is done (for now at least), so is SOA. NMB have no real plans besides playing another Morsefest show and FC is booked for that cruise but there's no album writing plans either. TWD are wrapping their cycle soon and his work with LTE or Petrucci solo are sporadic at best. Could he be secretly working on a new band/project thing?

[Schurftkut]

he did say something exiting was coming after winery dogs touring

[devieira73]

I really liked SoA and I think the band had the potential to improve, so for me it's sad that the band ended, but more or less as we already knew/expected. It seems like they unrealistically expected near-instant success just due to the weight of the names involved, so I think frustration played a role. I also think the band could benefit from better choices in the bass and vocal departments. I love Sheehan but he always seemed like someone hired guy and I think Soto never didn't fit in very well with that type of sound.
I still would like to see MP doing some refreshing take in the prog metal world though. Maybe with new talented musicians?

[WilliamMunny]

I really liked SoA and I think the band had the potential to improve, so for me it's sad that the band ended, but more or less as we already knew/expected. It seems like they unrealistically expected near-instant success just due to the weight of the names involved, so I think frustration played a role. I also think the band could benefit from better choices in the bass and vocal departments. I love Sheehan but he always seemed like someone hired guy and I think Soto never didn't fit in very well with that type of sound.
I still would like to see MP doing some refreshing take in the prog metal world though. Maybe with new talented musicians?

I was 'hoping' that Mangini's solo album would be an undeniable banger that would lead to a successful solo career, leaving a vacancy at DT's drum throne...

From what I've recently heard, I don't think 'undeniable banger' is going to be how people receive his album.

[cramx3]

The key thing here for me is that Bumblefoot writes how some members wanted to "keep working during the pandemic." It appears someone wanted to tour before it was safe, so there was a disagreement. Maybe it was another issue related to quarantining, vaccinations and that stuff, similar to what's happening with Symphony X to an extent. The pandemic really made an impact on certain bands.

Billy Sheehan was reported to not get the covid shot and I think that prevented him from touring for awhile after the pandemic. https://blabbermouth.net/news/billy-sheehan-explains-why-he-chose-not-to-get-covid-19-vaccine

[gmillerdrake]

Yeah...not to start a Covid debate but I'll just leave it at 'good for Billy'.


And, if I'm honest I find a bit of satisfaction that this band folded. From reading all the reports, gossip, in person encounters, stories, articles....and even seeing it in person....all things add up to Derek being a pretty big POS. I'm sure the other fellas are much nicer and deserve a better outcome from this but I think Derek kind of deserves this failure in light of what an ass he had been during it all.

[nobloodyname]

"deserves this failure"? Goodness.

[goo-goo]

The antics from Derek didn't make me dislike their music.  I actually LOVE Derek's solo music and I keep supporting his efforts. And I have met him once, and yes, he is a bit on the douchebag side but I'm not there to interact with him more than getting a picture, thanking him for his music, and that's it. Most of the meet and greets are like this. The only M&Gs that I have fully enjoyed because the bands wanted to talk to the fans were Tesseract and Fates Warning. Those were memorable meet and greets.

Regarding the music from SoA: I actually liked Derek's contributions but the music, as a whole,  (especially the vocals) didn't connect with me. First album sounded rushed as someone said previously, and while the 2nd album was stronger, it wasn't good enough for me. I did see them live and live, they were good, but again, while Jeff is a good frontman, his voice just kills it for me. The music spoke for itself, it just didn't speak to me this time around.

That "deserving failure" comment is a bit overboard. There were plenty of fans that dug Sons of Apollo. Music is their livelihood and they tried, and SoA didn't work out this time around.

[gmillerdrake]

That "deserving failure" comment is a bit overboard.

I'll stick by it.....what was overboard was the lengths he went to in the media to stirr up and talk shit. It'd be one thing if it were tongue and cheek but it wasn't. It was mean spirited and it fit his distemper. Like I said in my original statement....the other members deserved a better outcome but karma served Sherinian what he ordered.

There were plenty of fans that dug Sons of Apollo.

Sure there was/is....there were a couple songs that were listenable.

Music is their livelihood and they tried, and SoA didn't work out this time around.

Don't know about that. I get the impression they thought the clout and names they brought to the table were going to automatically put them at the top of the game without having to earn it.

[ReaperKK]

I feel like names and clout can only get you so far personally. None of them individually are big names to start with so putting together a super group the songs still have to be good. Like gmiller said, you gotta earn it.

[Trav86]

There’s a list of great musicians who have stepped up to play on Derek’s records over the years. If he were that much of a POS, why would they keep coming back? It ain’t for the money!