Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Ben_Jamin]

I don’t think many of us are saying that Jeff’s voice is the only reason we don’t like the band. The song writing isn’t very strong. But his voice also isn’t great in this band. And a lot of these live videos he sounds pretty off to me and others. If they got a different singer and changed nothing else, I still wouldn’t like it. That doesn’t eliminate my criticism of JSS not having a very good voice anymore.

His voice fits fine. Its the songwriting and melodies the producers have him singing.

[Adami]

I disagree that his voice fits just fine. It does at times but really doesn’t at others. And he struggles with even moderately high notes live.


Why are you all assuming JSS isn’t writing the vocals? From what I’ve read, he’s doing the bulk (though not all) of the vocal writing.

[Peter Mc]

I’m not assuming that. He may well be writing the vocal melodies himself. I’m just saying that the lack of melody is more down to the writing than the vocalist. He can sing a melody, you don’t get asked to be in Journey if you can’t sing melodic songs. I’ve not seen any live videos, have they released stuff or are we just doing the usual thing of judging based off poor quality cellphone recordings?  Andrea Bocelli would probably sound useless on a cellphone live recording.

[Madman Shepherd]

I disagree that his voice fits just fine. It does at times but really doesn’t at others. And he struggles with even moderately high notes live.


Why are you all assuming JSS isn’t writing the vocals? From what I’ve read, he’s doing the bulk (though not all) of the vocal writing.

He wrote all the lyrics on this last one but in one of the videos about one of the songs, Derek mentions that he had a melody he wanted Jeff to sing. On the first album there was also some disagreements between Derek and Jeff regarding vocals.

I think that all shows that Derek has a lot to do with the vocal melodies. Perhaps Jeff still is responsible for the majority but Derek has his say and as producer I think he has the final say.

I place a lot of the blame on Derek.

[Adami]

I place considerable blame on JSS. Seems like a super fun guy. That doesn’t make him a better vocalist in 2020.

Speaking of, when JSS was asked to be in journey, how long ago was that? I’m not saying his voice was never great. I’m just saying it’s not currently great.

[Madman Shepherd]

I place considerable blame on JSS. Seems like a super fun guy. That doesn’t make him a better vocalist in 2020.

Speaking of, when JSS was asked to be in journey, how long ago was that? I’m not saying his voice was never great. I’m just saying it’s not currently great.

Except I agree Psychotic Symphony wasn't an exceptional vocal performance, yet DIVAK which was released with the Soto band came out one year earlier and his vocal performance was excellent. Doubtful his voice became that uninspired in a years time.

[Adami]

You may very well be right. I have heard the album you’re talking about.

[Peter Mc]

I place considerable blame on JSS. Seems like a super fun guy. That doesn’t make him a better vocalist in 2020.

Speaking of, when JSS was asked to be in journey, how long ago was that? I’m not saying his voice was never great. I’m just saying it’s not currently great.

It was a while ago, immediately before Arnel, not sure how long ago that is but it wasn’t when he was a young guy, he was already past doing the big high screaming notes. His voice may have lost a little more power since then and he’s undoubtedly not as good as he was in his heyday but he can still hold a tune if he’s given a decent tune to sing.

[Anguyen92]

I saw Jeff Scott Soto twice with Trans-Siberian Orchestra two years in a row and both times, I thought he was a solid standout vocalist in the songs he sang.  Singing well with good energy and getting people into it without needing to try-hard.

[Volante99]

I think JSS has a fine voice; but as others have stated it just doesn’t fit with the band. He would be better placed in a power metal band or something...prog metal doesn’t seem to be his element.

At the end of the day the songs just aren’t there. I would put most of the blame of that on Derek and Ron, neither of whom I’ve been convinced so far in their careers can write.

[cramx3]

Why are you all assuming JSS isn’t writing the vocals? From what I’ve read, he’s doing the bulk (though not all) of the vocal writing.

From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMXX_(album)

Vocalist Jeff Scott Soto wrote all the lyrics, with Sherinian helping him with some of the melody lines.[2] He commented that he admired Soto's bluesy voice, which he thought contrasted with the more operatic vocals of other progressive metal bands.[11]

Also states MP, DS, and BF wrote the album together.  While it's confirmed JSS wrote the lyrics, it leaves the idea of the melodies and direction of his singing was still up to DS/MP (as producers and writers).  I don't think it means JSS isn't to blame, but his performances outside of SOA from what I have read (I never heard of him until SOA and only have heard some W.E.T. songs that he sounds fine on) are usually very positive. 

He's doing a Queen tribute set at Progpower this year.  I have no idea how that is going to go over. 

[Architeuthis]

Is it just me or does the new SOA album sound a bit muddy?  It seems like the sound spectrum is thin with lots of mids. I found myself maxing out the treble and bass to compensate.

Same as the first album. I think it's due to Derek, Ron and Billy all playing in the same frequency range.

Psychotic Symphony sounds easier on the ears to me, whereas M.M.X.X. sounds too compressed lacking dynamic range.   Even the drums seem to be fighting for a space sonically speaking.

[Stadler]

Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), andc can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?

I remember when I followed this thread when the first album was released and it was the same thing back then. I guess people don't like Portnoy's attitude towards DT on social media over the last decade and developed a kind of grudge against him (or anything he does) where they just enjoy complaining and criticizing. I mean, it is ok if you don't like the band and all.. but then I wonder why does this thread has over 170 pages.. 

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but this doesn't apply to me.  I've been (I think wrongly) accused of being an MP fanboy, often providing alternative rationales for what he's said/done, and I wasn't nearly as bothered by Derek's tweets (they're TWEETS, that says it all for me) about DT or SOA.   Having said that, I'm not really jumping for joy over SOA.  I totally understand it's their artistic vision, but it's not connecting with me. That's on me, and I accept that.  I do, though, feel it's okay to share WHY I think it's not connecting, and while I'm not out to hurt Jeff, or make him a scapegoat, I find my interest materially wanes when he's singing.  It's pretty much as simple as that. 

There are plenty of bands I listen to where the singer is singing what someone else wrote, and they elevate it, and where the singer is adding to the mix and not cutting the mustard, so I'm not sure it matters who is "writing" the material, it still can be elevated.  Robert Plant is probably the best example of that.   

[gzarruk]

There are plenty of bands I listen to where the singer is singing what someone else wrote, and they elevate it, and where the singer is adding to the mix and not cutting the mustard, so I'm not sure it matters who is "writing" the material, it still can be elevated.  Robert Plant is probably the best example of that.

I agree. To give another example of this (though the opposite case), I can say I consider myself a Fates Warning fan. I'm not a diehard fan, I don't know their whole catalog and I don't listen to them too often, but when I do, I enjoy their songs and think Jim Matheos is a phenomenal songwriter. Having said that, I absolutely hate John Arch's vocals, I just cannot stand listening to the guy sing for more than a couple minutes at best, and think his vocal lines have very little melody in them. Because of that, I completely ignore their first 3 records, John's EP and the two Arch/Matheos albums. Does that mean the material is weak and that Arch would do a better job if the writing was stronger? Definitely not, as Jim is a great songwriter, it's the vocalist who makes these songs unlistenable to me.
(No disrespect meant to John Arch, this is just my personal opinion.)

[jadiggerdt]

It seems to me that progreport constantly gives top score on Portnoy's project. A review must be constructive. Seems to me that this is bought and paid
https://progreport.com/concert-review-sons-of-apollo-at-the-roxy-los-angeles-ca-1-25-20/

[w_marano]

It seems to me that progreport constantly gives top score on Portnoy's project. A review must be constructive. Seems to me that this is bought and paid
https://progreport.com/concert-review-sons-of-apollo-at-the-roxy-los-angeles-ca-1-25-20/

Agreed.

[MoraWintersoul]

It's probably not bought and paid, because there is zero money in prog journalism  however, some outlets are less critical than others, like Prog Report. I don't really blame them though, you should see what kind of garbage people (including musicians!!) send you in private messages when you say "this album was good, ergo it gets a 7, because it was good." They behave as if you killed their hamster with a rusty shovel, buried him in some tomato sauce and served them the hamster bolognese on their wedding anniversary.

[Stadler]

It's probably not bought and paid, because there is zero money in prog journalism  however, some outlets are less critical than others, like Prog Report. I don't really blame them though, you should see what kind of garbage people (including musicians!!) send you in private messages when you say "this album was good, ergo it gets a 7, because it was good." They behave as if you killed their hamster with a rusty shovel, buried him in some tomato sauce and served them the hamster bolognese on their wedding anniversary.

That seems oddly specific.... 

[gzarruk]

It seems to me that progreport constantly gives top score on Portnoy's project. A review must be constructive. Seems to me that this is bought and paid
https://progreport.com/concert-review-sons-of-apollo-at-the-roxy-los-angeles-ca-1-25-20/

Definitely not bought, but they do seem to have a very heavy bias towards his work.

[TAC]

The way I feel about these sites and these kind of reviews is that they are really just someone who is trying to grow a site. Maybe if there's a history of good reviews, then perhaps they can land an artist interview or something, and gain some sort of legitimacy because of it. To me, I never read these. To me, they are tainted.

If I want a record or concert review, I simply hit up DTF for it. 

[cramx3]

If you praise them, then they share it and you get exposure.  If you shit on it, you get threats.  Seems like as a journalist, it's not very good to give a poor review. 

[axeman90210]

There's probably a "I need to remain on good terms so I can get/continue to get interviews/backstage access/stories/etc..." aspect to things. It's an issue that plagues film critics and journalists as well.

[Architeuthis]

I believe the review is sincere. I was quite blown away when I saw SOA in Seattle on their first tour!  Their new album is growing on me with each listen. It takes a while for me to absorb complex music like this before I can give an honest review. That's why I'm still not ready to give a review, besides my earlier comments about the production. I can get passed all that once I get into the content of the music.

[gmillerdrake]

I was quite blown away when I saw SOA in Seattle on their first tour!  Their new album is growing on me with each listen.

I won't use 'blown away' but I did have a pretty good time at that show. Outside of DS looking bored and wanting to be anywhere but there....the rest of the band sounded GREAT and were awesome to watch. they put on a heck of a show. Very cool live experience. Live Youtube vids are so hard to go by...so I don't give too much credit to those vids one way or the other. I know SOA had a killer live show when I saw them.

And to your other point....while I still think the bulk of the music is just pretty bland and a rehash of previous musical contributions from each member.....it's not a terrible listen. Good musicianship, and while I can't think of or remember any riffs/lyircs or lines after a dozen listens or so....I can still listen to it and at least enjoy it. (other than Desolate July which I skip every time)

[bosk1]

Outside of DS looking bored and wanting to be anywhere but there....

And that isn't new either.  Same last tour.  In fact, at the show I was at, he looked like he actively wanted to be somewhere else.

[cramx3]

Outside of DS looking bored and wanting to be anywhere but there....

And that isn't new either.  Same last tour.  In fact, at the show I was at, he looked like he actively wanted to be somewhere else.

Same with the Plovdiv blu-ray I watched over the weekend, so noticeable how uninterested he looks.  It's a huge turn off from their live show which is otherwise very good.

[Architeuthis]

I noticed that too about Derek, and my encounter with him after the show wasn't anything to talk about. 
 The rest of the band was relaxed and had a lot of fun.

[RodrigoAltaf]

There's probably a "I need to remain on good terms so I can get/continue to get interviews/backstage access/stories/etc..." aspect to things. It's an issue that plagues film critics and journalists as well.

Yes.

[Max Kuehnau]

There's probably a "I need to remain on good terms so I can get/continue to get interviews/backstage access/stories/etc..." aspect to things. It's an issue that plagues film critics and journalists as well.

Yes.

I believe you, but: No offence Rodrigo, but doesn't that "unwritten rule" (as it were) that you just confirmed bother you? Because it certainly would bother me personally.

[RodrigoAltaf]

There's probably a "I need to remain on good terms so I can get/continue to get interviews/backstage access/stories/etc..." aspect to things. It's an issue that plagues film critics and journalists as well.

Yes.

I believe you, but: No offence Rodrigo, but doesn't that "unwritten rule" (as it were) that you just confirmed bother you? Because it certainly would bother me personally.

It does bother me, and there have been occasions when I had to ask the editor to stop meddling with my reviews. There were changes made that I took issue with - obviously, to make it seem like the album in question was better than the review described - and other times where I offered to do reviews with a lot of criticism and it was declined. The last one I remember was Malmsteen´s Blue Lightning, which I thought was pretty bad. I said "I can write a review about this album in my sleep - there´s a lot to criticize, a thing or two worthy of praise, and surely lots to talk about". The response I got was "no, publishing something like this won´t help us at all". I do understand where the editor is coming from, but at the same time there´s an ethical dilemma that I can´t escape from. For now, this is the only vehicle I write for, and if there´s another one that would take more honest reviews, I´d surely consider writing for them.

[Setlist Scotty]

I believe the review is sincere.

It is. I know Kyle personally (DT fan from the WDaDU-era), so I can vouch for him. I could be wrong, but I do not believe that Kyle actually works for the website or is a regular contributor. However, I do think he's friends with Roie (the guy who runs the website), so that might be why his review is there. In fact, he is the same guy that will be Rob Webster's co-host for the second episode of Full Circle, whenever Rob gets around to publishing it.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I believe the review is sincere.

It is. I know Kyle personally (DT fan from the WDaDU-era), so I can vouch for him. I could be wrong, but I do not believe that Kyle actually works for the website or is a regular contributor. However, I do think he's friends with Roie (the guy who runs the website), so that might be why his review is there. In fact, he is the same guy that will be Rob Webster's co-host for the second episode of Full Circle, whenever Rob gets around to publishing it.

I´m not friends with him on Facebook, but did notice a lot of his posts on the Neal Morse, MP, SOA, Transatlantic and TWD forums, so yeah, he´s definitely a MP fan, and I do believe his review is sincere. Nothing wrong with enjoying SOA - I do like the band a lot as well, and can´t wait to come back to Toronto for the show on Sunday night!

[Setlist Scotty]

On a separate note, Rodrigo, your PM inbox is full! 

[RodrigoAltaf]

On a separate note, Rodrigo, your PM inbox is full!

Drop me an email: rodrigo.altaf@gmail.com

[bosk1]

For what it's worth, anecdotally, I have been asked to do a couple of reviews that I ultimately turned down myself, just because, after listening to the albums in question a couple of times, I knew that my review was going to be very negative because I just didn't like or connect with what I was hearing.  It's a lot easier for me to do something like that since I just do this occasionally for fun, and it isn't my career that I get paid for and need to support my family.  But the other side of that is that, unless there is a VERY good reason to criticize an album, such as its lyrics promoting something that is truly morally objectionable, I think it is poor form to be overly critical of an artist for putting out art that I simply do not like according to my own tastes.  When their art is their livelihood, and they have put their hearts into the creative process, I don't think it's my place to stand in a role where I can do any sort of material harm to the public's perception of their art.  That's my subjective opinion, anyway.