Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Cool Chris]

Maybe it is not fair to call Soto the weak link, but I am definitely someone who finds his voice and most of the vocal melodies pretty bland and forgettable.  You either connect with a voice or you don't, and I do not connect with his voice in any way at all.

Sums up my limited experience with this band.

[Architeuthis]

I really like JSS voice on the first album and he killed it live when I seen them in Seattle!  He's also pretty awesome on the Live at Plovdiv blu-ray.  I haven't heard the new album yet, it was supposed to arrive at my friends music store today but UPS got delayed.  I'm still excited to hear it because I'll probably like it based on the not so good reviews here.   

[MirrorMask]

I guess I'll have to join the "meh" category, since half the songs of the album seem to fly by without notice.

Goodbye Divinity is nice and groovy, it sounds fresh and has a rhytm that really keeps the song going. Desolate July is a really good melodic piece, and also King of Delusion is a bit unusual and therefore fresh.

But the rest? all of the heavy, fast songs are pretty meh. It's not that they're bad, they're just forgettable. Wither to Black, Asphyxiation, Fall to Ascend and Resurrection Day... I can't really save one, maybe Wither to Black because it has a nice progression in the bridge, but they all fail to get you going.

Also the final epic... maybe it needs more listenings, but it sounds forgettable without any really big highlights. Nice intro, then it's an usual song, something happens different after the second chorus and then it's random solos after random solos and in the final minutes the chorus comes back because it has to end somehow. It doesn't really take you on a journey or makes you interested, it's just... happening and then after 15 long minutes it finally ends.

I've seen the debates about "what did you expect from this band"... well, I expected good songs, to make it very simple. What is a "good songs"? hell if I could anticipate it, music tastes are subjective and there's no formula for which you could say "if they write this and that with a certain melody and a certain structure I'm absolutely certain I will like it". Whatever the result, I would have wanted for something to grab me. If they all went for the more melodic stuff like Goodbye Divinity, Desolate July and King of Delusion maybe I would have loved the record, some other people would have complained "where are the faster songs" but I wouldn't have minded because I would have liked a "slower" album in this example. But 4 fast songs out of 4 being very average and a big final epic that makes you forget what you were listening during the inevitable long solo.... it drags the album down too much for me. Considering how God of the Sun is by far my favorite song of them and that Divine Addiction was such a cool song, I'd daresay that - of course based on my tastes alone, it's not that I'm right - they should just stick to the more melodic, groovy and bluesy songs and just forget about writing heavy stuff, they don't seem to have a kickass and convincing fast song in them.

Pity because Goodbye Divinity was such a promising start for this album cycle....

[Lowdz]

Wasn’t that impressed on first listen. There’s no God of the Sun type standout song on this one. Bumblefoot’s solos are cool but nothing memorable in 5he riff department. I did like the track with the jazz-y piano.

I’ve always been a fan of JSS but his delivery is samey and one dimensional.

I’ll give it more plays before I write it off just on the calibre of the personnel.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Obligatory "1 album's worth of songs I like" playlist that I said I was going to do:

1. Goodbye Divinity
2. Wither To Black
3. Coming Home
4. Labyrinth
5. God Of The Sun
6. Signs Of The Time
7. Desolate July
8. King Of Delusion
9. Divine Addiction
10. New World Today
(Total: 79:00)

[emtee]

I've got 4 spins under my belt and I feel the same as I did after the first spin.

So much potential but nothing really moves me. The guitar solos are totally forgettable.
JSS..YOW! YEAH! Monotone. I do like MP's contribution. I think he drives the music along
well. Unfortunately, I just can't make any kind of connection to the songs. For me, it's
just emotionless hard rock that's been done many times before. I really want to love
this band but so far, it isn't happening.

God Of The Sun is far and away the best thing they have done IMO.

[The Walrus]

The piano bit at the start of King of Delusion is the best thing here

[goo-goo]

The star from both albums for me has been Derek Sherinian. Love his tone and solos. I do think MP should stay away from the arranging/producing role. Seems like his signature prog metal arrangement is intro/pre-chorus/chorus/shredding-wankery unrelating to the song/chorus/outro. This band would highly benefit from an external producer as I think there is a lot of potential with this band (or had potential). Having said this, I do think this album is leagues better than the debut.  You can tell they took a bit longer constructing the songs.

[gzarruk]

Obligatory "1 album's worth of songs I like" playlist that I said I was going to do:

1. Goodbye Divinity
2. Wither To Black
3. Coming Home
4. Labyrinth
5. God Of The Sun
6. Signs Of The Time
7. Desolate July
8. King Of Delusion
9. Divine Addiction
10. New World Today
(Total: 79:00)

I do this too! Here's mine:

1. God of the Sun
2. Signs of the Time
3. Goodbye Divinity
4. Desolate July
5. King of Delusion
6. Labyrinth
7. Fall to Ascend
8. Lost in Oblivion
9. New World Today

75 minutes

[Madman Shepherd]

Now that I've got a chance to listen to the album a little more in depth, here are some thoughts:

-I don't think there's a weak song on the album.
-There's no real A+ quality songs on the album either
-I get the Soto criticism, but I think his performance is much better on this album but still nowhere near what he's capable of
-The recording of his vocals took a big step up, too. The extra reverb really makes his voice sound more badass.
-Portnoy needs to cut it out with the backing vocals. Let Soto harmonize himself and if you absolutely must in concert, do it then. Leave the album alone
-Bumblefoot's backing vocals are a bit better
-Goodbye Divinity would have made an awesome album closer, especially since it's about struggling and ultimately saying, "fuck off, we're gonna make this thing work."
-King of Delusion sounds A LOT like Ozzy's Perry Mason. Similar riff and vocals during the verse.
-I think the songwriting credits are interesting. It says songs "Written and arranged by Sherinian Thal, and Portnoy." Clearly not alphabetical so the placement is intentional. Kinda reminds me of when Dream Theater started saying the songs were written by "Petrucci, Portnoy, Rudess, and Myung." Only one of those was not in alphabetical order. What does it all mean?

[cramx3]

I'd imagine it means the ones mentioned first did more of the writing similar to the way ingredients are listed in the nutrition facts on food products in order of most used.

[TAC]

-King of Delusion sounds A LOT like Ozzy's Perry Mason. Similar riff and vocals during the verse.

Seeing how I love Perry Mason, I figured I'd give the song a listen. Geez, it's actually pretty damn good..

[Skeever]

But who is to say how big they "should be"? 

I checked out a few of the new tunes on YT and it's clear why they aren't bigger; the songs aren't there. There are good moments, but they seem to get lost in the blandness of many of the others.  The long song, New World Today, was a total and complete mess.  I get that the "sudden left turn syndrome" has been done well by Portnoy's other bands before (see: Dream Theater), but that song seems to randomly bounce from idea to idea with no sense of purpose whatsoever and then the song is over.  Bummer, as the lead guitar that kicked off the song was pretty cool, but then the trainwreck happened. 

Maybe it is not fair to call Soto the weak link, but I am definitely someone who finds his voice and most of the vocal melodies pretty bland and forgettable.  You either connect with a voice or you don't, and I do not connect with his voice in any way at all.  Because they wanted to make it a direct competition, Soto, from what I've heard, cannot come to the greatness of JLB.  La Brie might be very hit or miss live (always has been for me), but he always brings it in the studio, and it is actually hilarious that some Portnoy fans (who love to hate JLB online) talk shit on JLB while praising Soto.  I get it, it's the internet, where people are allowed to have bad opinions, but that is one of the more LOL-worthy ones of recent years.

This, exactly. Regardless of what prog fans think, the elements that give a band wide appear are consistently going to be melody, vocals, and songwriting in general. Go back and listen to Images and Words, there's so many strong, catchy melodies everywhere, and LaBrie's vocals possess a warmth. Listen to Neal - same thing. Maybe he's never been as big, but he's got an ear for good melodies and there's a quality to his vocals that resonates with people. I listen to the Sons, and I don't hear it. Very few people will be moved to care about what Thal or Derek are doing when Soto's vocals and lyrics are so mundane. I like Soto, too, I believe he is capable of being a far better and more interesting singer but for some reason there is just no chemistry here.

[cramx3]

I've given a few more listens.  It's really not as bad as some are saying it is.  I don't think it's JSS either.  He is very samey throughout and I get that criticism, it's the same as the first album for him, but the reason this isn't anything better than "solid" is because there are NO catchy melodies.  Desolate July maybe is the closest to having some strong melodies in the verses.  I felt the same way about the first album, although I think they were a bit catchier songs on that album with Alive for example.  This album has some fun instrumental moments but there's just not a single song that blows me away, that makes me say "let me rewind and listen to that again" or that I find stuck in my head afterwards. 

[Grappler]

I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not. 

[TAC]

I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not.

Always good advice.

[Stadler]

I've given a few more listens.  It's really not as bad as some are saying it is.  I don't think it's JSS either.  He is very samey throughout and I get that criticism, it's the same as the first album for him, but the reason this isn't anything better than "solid" is because there are NO catchy melodies.  Desolate July maybe is the closest to having some strong melodies in the verses.  I felt the same way about the first album, although I think they were a bit catchier songs on that album with Alive for example.  This album has some fun instrumental moments but there's just not a single song that blows me away, that makes me say "let me rewind and listen to that again" or that I find stuck in my head afterwards.

I'm not asking to challenge you, but it's an idea I've had for a while and can't decide if it's legit:  isn't the "same-y-ness" of JSS in part the reason for the lack of melodies?   Meaning, how many great songs are there that the melody is carried by the vocals?   As bad a singer as Ozzy is, generally, the best Ozzy songs are those where Ozzy sings the melody in that trebly, whiny voice and it cuts through the sludge of the backing track.  Listen to something like Megalomania by Sabbath (or ALL of Sabotage for that matter).   If it was just "I don't like the singing", I probably wouldn't have said anything; there are plenty of singers I don't like.  But I think THAT was the sonic spectrum in which that melody, that catchiness, could be brought in.   

[cramx3]

Could be, but I blame it on the writing.  You could change up JSS's style on these melodies or replace him with another singer and they won't be any catchier IMO.  I'm not sure I blame JSS at all in this, seems he's not terribly involved in the writing and is likely being guided on what to do.  He certainly doesn't sound the best but I think he's capable of much more but this is what SOA wants to sound like.

[KevShmev]

I can’t help but wonder if the ex-DT guys are adamant that he can sing everything live just like in the studio, thus he’s not going all-out in the studio since he might not be able to do it live.

[cramx3]

I can’t help but wonder if the ex-DT guys are adamant that he can sing everything live just like in the studio, thus he’s not going all-out in the studio since he might not be able to do it live.

I wonder that as well, they took an approach that won't get people shitting on the live vocals... although people still do.  I mean, we know MP's feelings on JLB's struggles so I definitely wonder if that plays a role here.

However, the more I listen to this, the more I'm excited to see them soon.  These songs may come to a new life in the live setting as they also did on the first album.

[devieira73]

I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not.

Totally agree with this approach. All this discution about JSS and the lack of melody in the SoA's music, reminded me, on TOOL thread, of people talking about the lack of melody on Fear Inocolum and someone here pointed out: "when TOOL was about melody?". Maybe SoA isn't about it either. I know, because of that (beside other factors), this band won't please a lot of people and that's it.

On the album, to me, King of Delusion and New World Today are totally A+ songs

[Evermind]

I'm just judging on how much I enjoy the songs. Not trying to determine anything. From my first listen, the album is absolutely forgettable, and I don't even want to come back to it.

Good to see people enjoying it though, the reception seems more positive everywhere and I'm glad the album is received well.

[The Walrus]

I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not.

Well, I determined that it's not good, so trying to enjoy it for what it is is a little difficult. 

[cramx3]

I dunno, I'm just saying how I feel about it.  I rated it a 7 on first listen, to me, that's decent music.  I'm going to check them out live, but I just don't love them.  I don't think that has anything to do with determining what it should sound like.  I'm just judging what it DOES sound like to my ears. I'm glad others enjoy it more than I do and it sucks for those who enjoy it less than I do, but to each their own.

[Bentower]

I don't know if it's an omen of sorts, but it is definitely odd that the album struggles to end on a high note from JSS.

One thing I reflected on last Friday at the DT show as I was singing along to One Last Time is that SoA is lacking those strong, soaring melodies.

I liked MMXX well enough whenever Bumblefoot took a solo, but that's not enough to bring me back.

[Stadler]

That's me three.  "What it is" for me, is a missed opportunity with a glaring fault that the other players ought to have seen. That's an opinion, of course, since they presumably made the choices they wanted to, but it's not like I'm trashing it. I'll listen to it, and I'll buy the deluxe edition as I always do.  Every indication I have is that this is very much the album they wanted to make, and so the choices are deliberate.  I accept that for what it is. 

[Ben_Jamin]

After listening to it more. This albums isn't too bad nor is it amazing either. Certain things in each song they could've done differently to enhance them.

King of Delusion is their best song they've made so far, it'd be an excellent live song. Its really Dynamic that the album mix doesn't translate that well.

[MirrorMask]

I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not.

But I do judge the album for what it is. I accept that it's a heavy rock / prog album which has 4 fast songs, 2 mid tempo / groovy ones, one ballad and one epic. I happen to find all the fast songs and the epic quite bland and average. I'm not complaining that it has too many fast songs or too few slow songs or that one epic isn't enough or that it should have been more prog and less metal rather than less prog and more metal - I gladly accept that this is what they've done. My personal taste simply isn't satisfied, that's all, I'm not saying "they should have done that instead", I think that what they've done doesn't really grab me.

[MoraWintersoul]

Good to see people enjoying it though, the reception seems more positive everywhere and I'm glad the album is received well.

Yeah. It puzzles me a little bit though. Someone in MP's replies on Twitter said that wow, imagine if DT spent ten years with MP evolving to sound like this, and got a lot of likes. I was just like............ yeah. Sounds like a thing that would have happened 

[cramx3]

Good to see people enjoying it though, the reception seems more positive everywhere and I'm glad the album is received well.

Yeah. It puzzles me a little bit though. Someone in MP's replies on Twitter said that wow, imagine if DT spent ten years with MP evolving to sound like this, and got a lot of likes. I was just like............ yeah. Sounds like a thing that would have happened 

You can't really trust MP's social media following, doesn't he block people who talk shit?  Either way, for anyone, the people who mostly follow and comment are big fans who won't say anything negative.  Now, if you check the comments on blabbermouth.... well you can't trust those either as it's just the opposite and filled with haters. 

At the end of the day, it's music and someone else's opinion should mean nothing to your own opinion.  If they are truly getting great reviews all around, bravo to them as I do wish them success.  I'm just not following closely to know if that's true or not.

[deggs37]

You can't really trust MP's social media following, doesn't he block people who talk shit? 

*Has flashback to the great MP forum ban wave of 2010*

Imagine banning a huge chunk of your most die-hard fans and wondering why recent sales aren't what they could have been. Granted, this doesn't apply to me as I still follow and support most of his post-DT releases. Just seems a bit crazy to do that to your fans.

Back on topic - I had the same experience with this album as I did the first one. Hyped at first until I finally get it and realize I want to like it more than I actually do. Give it a 7 out of 10 which is probably a bit generous. Just like the first one, felt it really suffers in the songwriting department and could have used more time cooking up these songs.

I think this band really suffers from the Adrenaline Mob syndrome, which is that it's entirely obvious it's been concocted to be a 'hit' band going for mainstream. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but it shows. Funny thing is I enjoyed the first Adrenaline Mob album a bit more than the Sons of Apollo stuff.

[Peter Mc]

Yeah, I still follow him on Twitter but am aware that he just blocks people who say anything negative which he has every right to do. Who wants to go to your Twitter and see people saying negative stuff about you.  It does mean though that I don’t click on the links he puts up to reviews and stuff as I know he’ll only link to the absolutely glowing reviews. I’m sure all bands do the same though.

As for the album, I’ve listened through 3 times, it’s not grown on me at all so I won’t be buying it unfortunately. I’m happy for those who are getting some enjoyment out of it though, just wish I felt the same.

[TAC]

Funny thing is I enjoyed the first Adrenaline Mob album a bit more than the Sons of Apollo stuff.

Same here, man.

[gzarruk]

I still have a screenshot somewhere of Mike threatening to block me, via PM, on Twitter for replying to one of his early SOA posts, when the lineup wasn't revealed yet, saying Bumble was the guitar player for the band
In Mike's favor, he asked me to delete the tweet (which I did) and didn't block me

[Madman Shepherd]

I still have a screenshot somewhere of Mike threatening to block me, via PM, on Twitter for replying to one of his early SOA posts, when the lineup wasn't revealed yet, saying Bumble was the guitar player for the band
In Mike's favor, he asked me to delete the tweet (which I did) and didn't block me

Oh god, the flashbacks to just how poor of a roll out the announcement was. 

I've even taken a step back and asked myself if the incredibly anticlimactic beginning of the band had anything to do with my lukewarm reaction to the music, but I think I do a pretty good job of judging the music on its own merits.

It definitely couldn't have helped though.

-King of Delusion sounds A LOT like Ozzy's Perry Mason. Similar riff and vocals during the verse.

Seeing how I love Perry Mason, I figured I'd give the song a listen. Geez, it's actually pretty damn good..

Ozzmosis is a terribly underrated album. His last one that was worthwhile if you ask me.  King of Delusion is definitely a great song but the Perry Mason parts are a bit distracting for me. Fortunately there's a lot more to that song than just that.