Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[gmillerdrake]

Newsflash:  It isn't a drummer's job to come up with something "fresh and new" for every song.  That's just not what a drummer, by nature, is called to do, and it's pretty ridiculous to expect that.

That’s fine. Sure, it’s not their job. But when you have two guys telling anyone with a microphone, camera or blog that they’re the ‘New Kong’s of PROG’  you should be able to back that up. They didn’t and haven’t.

I’m not posting to argue about MP as a drummer and have stated many times I enjoy watching him play. Dude is entertaining as heck to watch play. He just isn’t very creative these days and the majority of the music he puts out nowadays is bland as heck. Thankfully he has Neal Morse that is able to hone and craft MPs contributions and still make cool music with his old bag of tricks.

The other bands.....not so much.

[bosk1]

OK, but whether Portnoy has done something that fans, compared to his HUGE body of work, find "new" and "creative" has zero to do with whether or not SOA are the "New Kong’s of PROG," (whatever that means).  Those two things are not related.

[TAC]

they’re the ‘New Kong’s of PROG’ 

[bosk1]

I don't think BC Rich guitars are very prog.

[TAC]

You tell him that!

[Architeuthis]

 

[Podaar]

I don't think BC Rick guitars are very prog.

BC Rick?

[bosk1]

I don't think BC Rick guitars are very prog.

BC Rick?

I figured I would King a little bit, since we were discussing Kong. 

[nikatapi]

So i did an interview with Derek (will post it once it's published).
He seems very excited with the new album, he also told me that he has a solo album that's going to come out later this year as well.
Still seems to want to compare with DT the way i see it, even though he said that he considers the band a hard rock band above all.

I did ask him about Metropolis Pt2 and if he remembers anything about writing the demo that has many of the ideas that made it into the album, and he told me that the only thing he remembers is not getting any writing credits when the album came out 

[gzarruk]

I did ask him about Metropolis Pt2 and if he remembers anything about writing the demo that has many of the ideas that made it into the album, and he told me that the only thing he remembers is not getting any writing credits when the album came out 

but, to be fair, they didn't use the most Derek-ish sounding parts and riffs. There's one specific part on the Met. 2 demo that didn't make it to SFAM and it was then used by Derek on the Planet X album Moonbabies, so it's not like they used all his input and then decided not to credit the guy at all.

On the other hand, they re-wrote ACOS with Derek, but he still played a ton of parts that were written with/by Kevin Moore and I don't think Kev got any writing credits on that one either.

[bosk1]

Going back to the band's overall sound, I like the niche they are filling, and I think they do a great job of blending that hard rock swagger of a Van Halen, Aerosmith, or Deep Purple with some of the layering and complexity of prog.  They aren't full-on prog, and that's okay.  It's a nice blend, and the songs are pretty good.  For those that don't like it, that's cool.  But similar to a point I have made a few times in movie and tv threads, I think it's kind of silly to wish they were something else and complain about what we didn't get rather than focusing on what we did get in their albums.

[Stadler]

Going back to the band's overall sound, I like the niche they are filling, and I think they do a great job of blending that hard rock swagger of a Van Halen, Aerosmith, or Deep Purple with some of the layering and complexity of prog.  They aren't full-on prog, and that's okay.  It's a nice blend, and the songs are pretty good.  For those that don't like it, that's cool.  But similar to a point I have made a few times in movie and tv threads, I think it's kind of silly to wish they were something else and complain about what we didn't get rather than focusing on what we did get in their albums.

I think the Deep Purple associations are spot on, at least musically.  The problem for me there is that Black Country Communion - with Derek - sort of mined that territory already, and with Glenn Hughes singing instead of Jeff, it's been mined, IMO, better. 

[cramx3]

I'm not even sure I notice the VH influences besides them covering a song or two.

I don't mind their niche either.  I'm more of a metal guy than prog, and generally like a little prog mixed with all my metal so in theory, this is right up my ally.  The songs just aren't terribly strong IMO, that's all.  Some other things like Jeff's samey vocals are minor issues to me, but the songs just mostly don't stick to my ears.

At this point, even if I don't like the album (I expect to find it decent, but not mindblowing) I still plan on seeing them because I know it will be a fun show, but if there's nothing on the new album that sticks to my ears, I'm not sure what the future will be here for them. 

I think back about last years Winery Dogs show and I feel that band has so much more potential than SOA because they right catchy songs to a bigger audience (rock vs. prog metal).  MP/BS would be better off investing their time there IMO.  That venue was PACKED and 3 times the size of what SOA are playing in NYC this tour.

[bosk1]

I'm just the opposite.  I find TWD to be incredibly boring and unimaginative, and do not plan on following them anymore after 2 albums that did nothing for me. 

[cramx3]

Yea, I know lots here don't like it.  It's not prog or metal, but it seems to be his most popular from my experience of seeing his bands live.  I haven't seen NMB but they typically play the same 500 capacity venue that SOA are playing.  But then again, I have no idea how TWD do in other markets.  SOA seemed to do better in Europe as most of these types of bands do.

[gmillerdrake]

Going back to the band's overall sound, I like the niche they are filling, and I think they do a great job of blending that hard rock swagger of a Van Halen, Aerosmith, or Deep Purple with some of the layering and complexity of prog.  They aren't full-on prog, and that's okay.  It's a nice blend, and the songs are pretty good.  For those that don't like it, that's cool.  But similar to a point I have made a few times in movie and tv threads, I think it's kind of silly to wish they were something else and complain about what we didn't get rather than focusing on what we did get in their albums.

Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

They've found a niche as you say.....the live show is fun and exciting and worth the watch.....but the music itself is pretty bland, formulaic and predictable. Doesn't mean it's not easy to listen to or not executed well....it is, these guys are incredible musicians.....just means for me I'll use the time I have to listen to music to listen to something else.

[bosk1]

Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

I don't disagree with you on any of that.  But that still has zero to do with Mike's playing, which is what you originally criticized.

[cramx3]

I get Gary's point about their arrogance when this band started.  It turned a lot of people off.  However, I haven't seen that arrogance in awhile.  I'm willing to bury it personally.  I think they realized they messed up by turning people off before things even started and have changed course.

[gmillerdrake]

Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

I don't disagree with you on any of that.  But that still has zero to do with Mike's playing, which is what you originally criticized.

My ‘thing’ with MPs playing is here you have this world class, virtuoso drum player in MP yet he hasn’t given us anything ‘new’ in MANY albums. Even has last three albums with DT were rinse and repeat. I’ve used the word ‘lazy’ to describe it because that’s what it seems like to me.

There are many recycled fills and beats, it’s very noticeable.  He has the right and has earned the luxury of not practicing or trying to improve.....he’s freaking Mike Portnoy....and What he’s doing with SOA and in some way TNMB is working I guess......I just don’t find his efforts all that inspiring anymore.

Well executed? Yes. Does it all fit? Sure. Is it a master class in drumming? Not so much. As I’ve said in the movie thread a lot it’s all about expectations. I ‘expect’ top tier effort from MP due to his pedigree. Sadly, I haven’t detected that effort in quite some time.

[gmillerdrake]

I get Gary's point about their arrogance when this band started.  It turned a lot of people off.  However, I haven't seen that arrogance in awhile.  I'm willing to bury it personally.  I think they realized they messed up by turning people off before things even started and have changed course.

I agree. I just hold a grudge longer.....

[bosk1]

Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

I don't disagree with you on any of that.  But that still has zero to do with Mike's playing, which is what you originally criticized.

My ‘thing’ with MPs playing is here you have this world class, virtuoso drum player in MP yet he hasn’t given us anything ‘new’ in MANY albums. Even has last three albums with DT were rinse and repeat. I’ve used the word ‘lazy’ to describe it because that’s what it seems like to me.

There are many recycled fills and beats, it’s very noticeable.  He has the right and has earned the luxury of not practicing or trying to improve.....he’s freaking Mike Portnoy....and What he’s doing with SOA and in some way TNMB is working I guess......I just don’t find his efforts all that inspiring anymore.

Well executed? Yes. Does it all fit? Sure. Is it a master class in drumming? Not so much. As I’ve said in the movie thread a lot it’s all about expectations. I ‘expect’ top tier effort from MP due to his pedigree. Sadly, I haven’t detected that effort in quite some time.

And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

[Peace and Love]

Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

I don't disagree with you on any of that.  But that still has zero to do with Mike's playing, which is what you originally criticized.

My ‘thing’ with MPs playing is here you have this world class, virtuoso drum player in MP yet he hasn’t given us anything ‘new’ in MANY albums. Even has last three albums with DT were rinse and repeat. I’ve used the word ‘lazy’ to describe it because that’s what it seems like to me.

There are many recycled fills and beats, it’s very noticeable.  He has the right and has earned the luxury of not practicing or trying to improve.....he’s freaking Mike Portnoy....and What he’s doing with SOA and in some way TNMB is working I guess......I just don’t find his efforts all that inspiring anymore.

Well executed? Yes. Does it all fit? Sure. Is it a master class in drumming? Not so much. As I’ve said in the movie thread a lot it’s all about expectations. I ‘expect’ top tier effort from MP due to his pedigree. Sadly, I haven’t detected that effort in quite some time.

And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

That's because there is a difference between sport and art, particularly art in a genre labelled "progressive", where the expectation (at least in some people's minds) is constant evolution and innovation.

That said, I agree that people have unrealistic expectations for MP's drumming. There are very very few drummers out there with a recorded discography as large as his, that are still innovating. Yes, there are some - but very few. I think its quite unfair to pick on MP for this, particularly when he has innovated quite a lot in the past.

I would be willing to bet a small sum of money that those who claim MM is constantly evolving and creating new patterns, etc. are not nearly as familiar with his recorded discography as they are with MP's. If you've obsessed over MM's work and have heard all his albums over the past 30 years, and still believe that - sure - but I highly doubt it.

And I say all that as a massive fan of both MP and MM.

[Stadler]

But the operative word is "in some people's minds".  All that matters is the intent of the artist.  Everything else is noise.   The important thing is, "what is Mike going for, and is he achieving it".  Only he can say that, frankly.

I still find Mike's drumming far more engaging than Mike Mangini's even if Mangini's is more "complicated", or, if you will, "progressive".

[gmillerdrake]

And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

On the other hand I look at it like a Pitcher who can throw 104 mph and strike near everyone out on near every at bat.....but....although he's still perfectly capable of throwing 104 mph and striking everyone out.....he now throws nothing but change ups and gets some runs scored on him and maybe a lot of contact outs.

I just see it as MP got to a point and said "that's good enough" and kind of went on auto pilot. Which is perfectly fine. He's earned it....logged the time and still produces nice music. I'm just left to wonder about 'what could have been' had he stayed engaged ala a Mike Mangini who is always looking for ways to improve.

[Dublagent66]

Going to the LA show a week from this Saturday.  I'm hoping MP does a tribute the Neil Peart.  That would be so cool! 

[Architeuthis]

Going to the LA show a week from this Saturday.  I'm hoping MP does a tribute the Neil Peart.  That would be so cool! 

I would think that's a given!  I wouldn't be surprised if the whole band collectively does a tribute to him.

[Peter Mc]

Just got through my first listen and, oh dear, this is really, really poor in my opinion.  Wasn’t a huge fan of Goodbye Divinity, it was on ok, fairly enjoyable song but nothing more. Sad thing is that it’s the best song on this album by a huge margin.  Only my first listen granted but this is a big step down even from Psychotic Symphony imo. I think I may even prefer the Adrenaline Mob album to this.  Will be beyond shocked if they make it to album number 3 at least with this lineup.

When I heard Goodbye Divinity again, I was thinking ok, it’s not bad, probably enjoyed it more than I had previously. The second song wasn’t terrible either, it was ok and my hopes began to rise. I hated pretty much everything I heard after that. Just dull uninspired riff after dull uninspired riff, zero catchy melodies in the vocals or memorable choruses.  I didn’t hate the first album like some. It was a solid 6-7 out of 10 and I thought they had some potential. That is why this is so disappointing and couldn’t give it more than 3-4 out of 10.

Just my subjective opinion obviously and some others seem to like it which is great, I’m glad others get some enjoyment out of it even if I don’t.  Looks like I will just have to get my MP fix from Transatlantic and Neal Morse for the time being and hope for a Liquid Tension Experiment reunion at some point.

[Evermind]

I think I'll actually spin this on my commute back from work today. If I like the album, I'll consider seeing them live in March, we'll see.

[Kilgore Trout]

This is not a step up from the first album, that's for sure.

[Polarbear]

You'll now what you are getting into with this album, if you have listened to the first one...

Although IMO it's better than their debut. Even the 15-minute epic didn't bore me to tears. Also I really like Desolate July!

[IDontNotDoThings]

Oh my god, I actually forgot that this came out today

I'll give it a listen.

[MoraWintersoul]

Oh my god, I actually forgot that this came out today

I'll give it a listen.

Sorry to barge in off topic, but this is the first time anyone on DTF has quoted me 

To go back on topic, I guess I'll have to listen to this as well!

[devieira73]

I like this one even more than the first. I agree overall with the RodrigoAltaf and Bosk reviews and I would add that, although the album has less variety compared to the first, I think it’s better composed and arranged. It has a lot more layers of keyboards and guitars and the style reminds me a lot more the heavier side from Derek’s solo albums. MP is innovating? No, but I his performance is really vibrant and energectic on this one IMO. And I absolutely loved King of Delusion and New World Today. 

[Kyo]

So after the unison runs taken straight from The Sons of Anu in Fall to Ascend there's also a section taken from Derek's State of Delirium in the middle of Desolate July. As a fan of the originals I find it a bit weird to hear these ideas re-used in different songs.

[IDontNotDoThings]

After listening to the album, my first impressions were... meh.

Like the first album, it had plenty of great moments but plenty of awful ones too. I think the highs from MMXX (Goodbye Divinity, King Of Delusion, New World Today) aren't quite as high as the ones from PS (God Of The Sun, Coming Home, Signs Of The Time, Labyrinth, Divine Addiction), but the lows from MMXX (Asphyxiation, Resurrection Day) aren't quite as low as the ones from PS either (Alive, Lost In Oblivion). They're both such inconsistent albums, & it bothers me that I can really get into some songs, but have to hesitate to call them a "good albums". I figured that the fluff from PS was a result of the rushed production schedule, but it doesn't seem to have improved here, which I find disappointing.

So yeah, I can't really get into this as much as I'd hoped. Oh well