Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Ben_Jamin]

Kinda eerie this song came out same time as Neil Pearts death announcement.

Anyways, its a neat song. Nothing that grabs me much. But that atmosphere is great.

[TAC]

So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first? Well, like I said, I just thought playing and getting more familiar with each other would help cultivate some creativity.

Bosk, I'm here to say that you are right.

I just listened to Desolate July. WTF?? I cannot think of a bigger piece of crap. What are we doing here? What is the point of this band?

And while I can literally only think of a handful of vocal performances better than JSS on Marching Out, his voice today has to be one of the most uninteresting voices I can think of.

[gzarruk]

And while I can literally only think of a handful of vocal performances better than JSS on Marching Out, his voice today has to be one of the most uninteresting voices I can think of.

This is my biggest issue with his vocals, he seems to sing everything in the same range. All. The. Time.

[Peter Mc]

Yeah, this is starting to look like the pattern I have with all of Mike’s post DT projects. Buy album number one to support him, try and try to like it, hope number two is better, hear some songs off number two, realise it’s probably even worse, don’t buy album two! 

Based on these 3 songs, I will be amazed if Sons Of Apollo make it to album number three.  Two of the new songs have cool intros (that’s obviously a Derek speciality) but the song doesn’t live up to the epic intro and the solo/instrumental sections are just hideous to my ears, just completely pointless and lacking in any melody.  Oh well at least Transatlantic are back in the studio!

[Grappler]

So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it. 

[Zydar]

You won't find it here. Look another way.

[JayOctavarium]

You won't find it here. Look another way.

EVERYONE SURVIVED! ROOOOOAAAAAAR

[TAC]

So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

I guess I thought that after touring and getting to really know each other musically, the 2nd album would be a bit more... I don't know..adventurous? interesting?

I didn't realize that was such a "far out" concept.


They simply picked up where they left off and kept themselves writing in a very uninteresting box.

[Madman Shepherd]

So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

I guess I thought that after touring and getting to really know each other musically, the 2nd album would be a bit more... I don't know..adventurous? interesting?

I didn't realize that was such a "far out" concept.


They simply picked up where they left off and kept themselves writing in a very uninteresting box.

From what I've heard, I'm on track to like this album MORE than the last which I was very lukewarm to. I get what you're saying but from what I've heard it seems like they took the good elements from the first and took that a little further. Nothing spectacular.

And while I can literally only think of a handful of vocal performances better than JSS on Marching Out, his voice today has to be one of the most uninteresting voices I can think of.

This is my biggest issue with his vocals, he seems to sing everything in the same range. All. The. Time.

Which is too bad because he still has a good range (although not what it used to be). My theory is that Sherinian is limiting him.

[Peter Mc]

So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

I guess I thought that after touring and getting to really know each other musically, the 2nd album would be a bit more... I don't know..adventurous? interesting?

I didn't realize that was such a "far out" concept.


They simply picked up where they left off and kept themselves writing in a very uninteresting box.

I’m with you TAC, not that much of a stretch to think a band who have released an album and toured together may come up with a better record than a band just formed who’d never played or written together before.  Only 3 songs in admittedly but this sounds even less interesting than album number one.

[theshatteredfortress]

Desolate July is fantastic.  It's kind of its own thing, so I hate to pigeonhole it.  But if I had to draw a comparison from the last album, I would say it is probably most similar to Labrynth.

I haven't listened to this one yet but if it's anywhere near the awesomeness of Labyrinth, it's gonna be............awesome   The first album contains three great epic songs IMO : God Of The Sun, Labyrinth and Opus Maximus.  I saw the tracklisting for the second album and I saw a song called «New World Today» who is 16 minutes long and I can't wait to hear this one too!!!

Tx

[Stadler]

And while I can literally only think of a handful of vocal performances better than JSS on Marching Out, his voice today has to be one of the most uninteresting voices I can think of.

This is my biggest issue with his vocals, he seems to sing everything in the same range. All. The. Time.

So I finally sat down and listened to the released tracks, and I can't be any LESS happy to relate my feelings:  instrumentally, this is unbelievable.   Not a radical departure from the first one but really good.  Bumblefoot excels, he stays away from that low-E chug that I'm commented on a couple times, and the mix is good.  I have to say: if there was an award for "best intros" on an album, this one would win.  Every song starts really cool and I'm jazzed up, ready to go...

... and the vocals kick in.  I get that he's good (generally), he's well-respected, etc. etc. but it's not working for me in this band.  It's just not.  It's all the same register, it's all the same sort of growly, mono-tonic vocals and I'm just not feeling it at all.  Just to pile on - because I can live with the poor lyrics otherwise - but his contributions on the lyrical front aren't all that special either.  I'm not entirely sure what some of them mean, but it's the sort of quasi-intellectual, "profound-but-don't-think-about-it-too-hard" philosophy that Dio and Jon Anderson do SOOOOOOOO much better.   

[cramx3]

I definitely expected a better effort on the 2nd release for the reasons TAC stated. I haven't heard it so I dont know, but the reviews that it's mostly the same arent very good to me. Fall to Ascend maybe my favorite of their singles so I'm hopeful this is a good one, but I kind of want these guys to do something really amazing since they are capable. They so far, just haven't hit that mark.

[ytserush]

So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

Suppose I should order this at some point soon.  I'd be hoping for some growth and maybe moving the needle a bit for a second album. Guess I'll find out soon enough.

[ytserush]

So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

I guess I thought that after touring and getting to really know each other musically, the 2nd album would be a bit more... I don't know..adventurous? interesting?

I didn't realize that was such a "far out" concept.


They simply picked up where they left off and kept themselves writing in a very uninteresting box.

I don't think it's that far out but I'm weird.

[TAC]

Gee, thanks.

[gmillerdrake]

I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

[Grappler]

I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

Not directed at you, but for the fans who feel like this...what are you expecting the band to write?  We've heard the first record and know exactly what their style is.  Are you expecting that they all of a sudden change gears and add some Dream Theater/stereotypical prog metal widdly widdly instrumental stuff and not sound like themselves anymore? 

They've been very open about the fact that Van Halen is more of an influence in their style and sound than prog.  They're a rock/metal band, with some melodic and proggy elements thrown in. 

I can listen to these songs and hear musicianship flying out of them. 

[Stadler]

I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

Not directed at you, but for the fans who feel like this...what are you expecting the band to write?  We've heard the first record and know exactly what their style is.  Are you expecting that they all of a sudden change gears and add some Dream Theater/stereotypical prog metal widdly widdly instrumental stuff and not sound like themselves anymore? 

They've been very open about the fact that Van Halen is more of an influence in their style and sound than prog.  They're a rock/metal band, with some melodic and proggy elements thrown in. 

I can listen to these songs and hear musicianship flying out of them.

I just wish the "Van Halen" influence was more "Ed/Alex/Mike/Wolf" than "David/Sammy".   

[TAC]

I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

Not directed at you, but for the fans who feel like this...what are you expecting the band to write?  We've heard the first record and know exactly what their style is.  Are you expecting that they all of a sudden change gears and add some Dream Theater/stereotypical prog metal widdly widdly instrumental stuff and not sound like themselves anymore? 

They've been very open about the fact that Van Halen is more of an influence in their style and sound than prog.  They're a rock/metal band, with some melodic and proggy elements thrown in. 

I can listen to these songs and hear musicianship flying out of them.

I just wish the "Van Halen" influence was more "Ed/Alex/Mike/Wolf" than "David/Sammy".

Or Jan..

[gmillerdrake]

I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

Not directed at you, but for the fans who feel like this...what are you expecting the band to write?  We've heard the first record and know exactly what their style is.  Are you expecting that they all of a sudden change gears and add some Dream Theater/stereotypical prog metal widdly widdly instrumental stuff and not sound like themselves anymore? 

They've been very open about the fact that Van Halen is more of an influence in their style and sound than prog.  They're a rock/metal band, with some melodic and proggy elements thrown in. 

I can listen to these songs and hear musicianship flying out of them.

 It sure and it’s a fair ‘ask’. I guess for me, strictly looking at MPs contributing....it’s the thing that’s been discussed at length here and it’s his lack of creativity on drums. Same fills....same rhythms and so on. Compare that to Mangini who makes every effort to improve and provide ‘fresh’ sounds...fills....rhythms.

MP is an incredible drummer and showman....I enjoy the heck out of watching him play and I understand that there are a lot of people that are fine with his efforts of the past multiple albums he’s put out. I personally think he’s kind of resting on his reputation and career (which he’s earned) but It shows in his recent music.

Bumblefoot IMO is the only member in the band that really is oozing creativity. The others (to me) are just rinsing and repeating. I’m not asking for dramatic reinvention of music....but at least act like you tried. Just the way I ‘hear’ SOA.

[Stadler]

I know you're not talking to me, but "resting on laurels" isn't the worst thing in the world if that laurel is interesting, fresh, and says something new.  I have little if any beef with Mike in any of this. I just enjoy listening to him play, in the same way that listening to Malcolm Young playing open-position E and D chords are a joy.   

Vice versa, pushing the envelope is only good when the envelope is moving in a positive direction.  GG Allin "pushed the envelope"; Miley Cyrus "pushed the envelope" on her album with the guy from Flaming Lips.  I appreciate Mangini, and he doesn't suck in any way shape or form, but I don't get any real joy/thrill in listening to him, not like I do with Portnoy.

My beef is almost entirely with the vocals.  We're not 17 anymore.   

[MoraWintersoul]

"I expect them to push the envelope" =/= "I expect them to be proggier". I don't think that's what anyone is saying. If they're going for a simpler, rockier feel, then it has to ROCK, not just "be a rock song".

[Peter Mc]

I get that they are supposed to be prog mixed with classic rock. The problem I have is that the classic rock element, being the riffs, melodies, choruses etc is utterly average imo. The prog widdly instrumental bits are even worse.

I will still give the whole album a listen as the first album had it’s moments and none of those were the singles. The outstanding highlight being God Of The Sun but I quite liked Divine Addiction and a couple of others as well.

[pcs90]

I know you're not talking to me, but "resting on laurels" isn't the worst thing in the world if that laurel is interesting, fresh, and says something new.  I have little if any beef with Mike in any of this. I just enjoy listening to him play, in the same way that listening to Malcolm Young playing open-position E and D chords are a joy.   

But Mike's playing is certainly not fresh and there is nothing new being produced. Genuine question, where are you hearing this new interesting playing of his that has never been done on every one of his previous albums? Because if there's something I'm missing I absolutely want to hear it. There is nothing wrong with anyone enjoying his playing, or watching him perform live. I just cannot for the life of me find this new playing that comes up here from time to time. It is all incredibly predictable from my perspective.

Derek is the same way. Nearly every solo on the new album is just a huge pile of notes vomited up. They sound like absolutely no thought whatsoever was put into them. I just don't see the point.

[gzarruk]

I know you're not talking to me, but "resting on laurels" isn't the worst thing in the world if that laurel is interesting, fresh, and says something new.  I have little if any beef with Mike in any of this. I just enjoy listening to him play, in the same way that listening to Malcolm Young playing open-position E and D chords are a joy.   

But Mike's playing is certainly not fresh and there is nothing new being produced. Genuine question, where are you hearing this new interesting playing of his that has never been done on every one of his previous albums? Because if there's something I'm missing I absolutely want to hear it. There is nothing wrong with anyone enjoying his playing, or watching him perform live. I just cannot for the life of me find this new playing that comes up here from time to time. It is all incredibly predictable from my perspective.

Derek is the same way. Nearly every solo on the new album is just a huge pile of notes vomited up. They sound like absolutely no thought whatsoever was put into them. I just don't see the point.

Credit where credit is due, there's one drum groove on the first few minutes of NMB's Alive Again that really surprised me in a very good way (that was 2015, tho). Other than that, I completely agree that Mike's drumming has been the same stuff over and over again. And not just his drumming, but his arranging style has become way too obvious now. Pretty much every album he's heavily involved with has a lot of "let's copy-paste this section here, there, and over here just o make it prog... oh, and let's repeat this riff x amount of times just because we can."
He also loves to have the backing vocals go "ahhhhh" on a lot of songs. I've been listening to the whole DT catalog and it's super annoying on the 00's albums once you realize it's there, and it's the same case with most of his other bands (see Labyrinth as an example).

About Derek, it's sad that this is the same guy that came up with THAT solo on Trial of Tears, which I consider one of my favorite DT keyboard moments ever (might need to make a top 10 list or something).

[gzarruk]

Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGFAowImgPk&fbclid=IwAR3DRe3Yk0XdoKJlg-BH6LtP21lcisEmcEW0-IrKdB1K-DZJrxA7loZzDEs

[pcs90]

About Derek, it's sad that this is the same guy that came up with THAT solo on Trial of Tears, which I consider one of my favorite DT keyboard moments ever (might need to make a top 10 list or something).

Yes, that solo is great. It's obvious there was thought put into it. Some of the stuff on his solo albums is really awesome too.

[Fritzinger]

Derek is the same way. Nearly every solo on the new album is just a huge pile of notes vomited up. They sound like absolutely no thought whatsoever was put into them. I just don't see the point.

Have you heard the Ayreon album 01011001? There's a solo by Derek on The Fifth Extinction. It's his typical wanky synth solo.
And then there is a solo on Waking Dreams by Tomas Bodin. What a huge difference. You can hear that he put some thought into the sound and the lines he played.

That difference represents a little the problem I have with SoA. I don't mind it being "only" hard rock with some prog influences. But their music is generic and not well thought through. And that is audible when hearing some music that is well thought through and has been given time to mature (like the new IQ). The guys should put more effort and time into this project.

[Evermind]

That's an excellent point. Now that I think of it, there are three things about 01011001 I really dislike:

Connect the Dots
Web of Lies
Derek's solo on The Fifth Extinction

[Northern Lion]

I'm with a lot of you here.  The vocals do not grab me at all.  He sings the same way on every song.  I had high hopes when I heard Goodbye Divinity.  I thought it was a pretty good song.  However, their last two singles are same type of stuff that was on their first album.

I have really wanted to follow MP's post DT career, but so far I haven't liked anything he's been involved in.  Maybe the next band?  Who knows.

[Stadler]

I know you're not talking to me, but "resting on laurels" isn't the worst thing in the world if that laurel is interesting, fresh, and says something new.  I have little if any beef with Mike in any of this. I just enjoy listening to him play, in the same way that listening to Malcolm Young playing open-position E and D chords are a joy.   

But Mike's playing is certainly not fresh and there is nothing new being produced. Genuine question, where are you hearing this new interesting playing of his that has never been done on every one of his previous albums? Because if there's something I'm missing I absolutely want to hear it. There is nothing wrong with anyone enjoying his playing, or watching him perform live. I just cannot for the life of me find this new playing that comes up here from time to time. It is all incredibly predictable from my perspective.

I didn't say "never been done on every one of his previous albums" or anything like it.  That's why the Malcolm reference.  If at this point you can't sing along to an AC/DC record first time through, you've been living under a rock for the past 30 years.   I like Mike's style.  I don't think it's stale at this point, especially when compared to some of the stuff that passes as "fresh and new" from other bands.  Maybe "fresh" is the wrong word, but I listened to those songs over the weekend in my garage fixing my car, and it was, to me, energetic and fun.  I liked it.  I didn't need to hear synchopated four-limb autonomy with a blast beat interspersed every four bars.  Nicko McBrain is in the same category for me. Nothing Nicko is doing at this point is ground breaking, but mofo, what he IS doing, just behind the lines of the cutting edge, is inspiring. 

And I will offer that maybe it's all relative; for me the stale, uninspired and soggy of SOA is the growled "your ecstacy is my insanity, you're the reliever to my fever, YEAH!" banality of the vocals/lyrics.   

[bosk1]

Newsflash:  It isn't a drummer's job to come up with something "fresh and new" for every song.  That's just not what a drummer, by nature, is called to do, and it's pretty ridiculous to expect that.

[Grappler]

Newsflash:  It isn't a drummer's job to come up with something "fresh and new" for every song.  That's just not what a drummer, by nature, is called to do, and it's pretty ridiculous to expect that.

I had a response that was very similar to that - the drummer's job is to just do what the song calls for.  End of story.  SOA's songs don't call for big, flashy drumming - the songs and riffs are big, groovy things.  Dream Theater's songs are more intricate, so obviously, the drumming reflects that. 

Comparing Mangini in DT to Portnoy in SOA doesn't make sense to me, since the bands are completely different.  SOA isn't a prog metal band at all, though they feature prog musicians and have elements of that style. 

[emtee]

MP doesn't have space on his walls for
any more awards.