Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Max Kuehnau]

  I wouldn't have made that connection, but...    Yeah...

Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

I can honestly say I wouldn't care one bit. Prior to SOA I hadn't intentionally heard one note from Bumblefoot or JSS. Knew Derek from DT but that was it and only knew the old Bass player from TWD's.....that other band I'd never have given a chance were it not an MP band.

Yeah, interesting that you mention that in light of Adami's question.  I first tuned in to TWDs because of MP, and otherwise wouldn't have.  And after two albums, I can affirmatively say, no interested.

well that's what I'm here for, finding obscure humour and pointing it out (amongst other things)

[DTA]

It's like every song is a typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus. Where's the uniqueness in structure? The music's played well but everything just feels just so obvious and by-numbers. I know MP fashions himself as a song-arrangement genius or whatever, but every song has the exact same structure with only the lengths of each part being extended to make the songs longer. CHANGE THE FORMULA for fucks sake

[KevShmev]

Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

Not much, but he has an overall good track record in his non-DT projects, IMO, so I will almost always check them out.  This one isn't a total dud like Adrenaline Mob, but it doesn't come close to what I would call his best non-DT bands/side projects (LTE, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Neal Morse Band).  Ultimately, when looking them over, the moral of the story is his bands just aren't very good if they don't include John Petrucci or Neal Morse, which goes back to what I alluded to before: you can have great players and all of the talent in the world in a band, but you need songs.

[gzarruk]

---

This is better than first album for sure.
Currently favorites: Desolate July and King of Delusion.

Had to be, these musicians are top notch and their debut was a complete mess (they didn't even try to make it good), so it shouldn't be too difficult for them to top it 
Looking forward to checking the tracks you mentioned + the epic.

It's like every song is a typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus. Where's the uniqueness in structure? The music's played well but everything just feels just so obvious and by-numbers. I know MP fashions himself as a song-arrangement genius or whatever, but every song has the exact same structure with only the lengths of each part being extended to make the songs longer. CHANGE THE FORMULA for fucks sake

That's what I was saying on my previous post here, SOA songs have that MP trademark arrangement style all over the place, where you have a regular verse/chorus song with a bunch of random riffs and solo trade-offs thrown together mid-song to make it "prog" (see: A Rite of Passage). At the end, it just sounds like a disjointed mess in the middle of an average song at best.

Not much, but he has an overall good track record in his non-DT projects, IMO, so I will almost always check them out.  This one isn't a total dud like Adrenaline Mob, but it doesn't come close to what I would call his best non-DT bands/side projects (LTE, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Neal Morse Band).  Ultimately, when looking them over, the moral of the story is his bands just aren't very good if they don't include John Petrucci or Neal Morse, which goes back to what I alluded to before: you can have great players and all of the talent in the world in a band, but you need songs.

Indeed, great musicians doesn't always mean great songs. Mike is really handy for song-arranging, but he needs good songs to work with and, without a good songwriter, there's not much he can do, imo.

[emtee]

Like all of SoA material, It's played well. Sonically It's great.
Problem for me is I feel nothing when listening to it.
Great musicians. Decent singer. No emotional connection
whatsoever. Almost like paint-by-the-numbers music,
for lack of a better description.

[Peter Mc]

Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

Not much, but he has an overall good track record in his non-DT projects, IMO, so I will almost always check them out.  This one isn't a total dud like Adrenaline Mob, but it doesn't come close to what I would call his best non-DT bands/side projects (LTE, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Neal Morse Band).  Ultimately, when looking them over, the moral of the story is his bands just aren't very good if they don't include John Petrucci or Neal Morse, which goes back to what I alluded to before: you can have great players and all of the talent in the world in a band, but you need songs.

Does he really still have a good track record? All subjective of course but I find most of his stuff these days to be fairly poor. In his time in DT he had a bit of a Midas touch with Liquid Tension Experiment, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, even OSI was decent if not quite on the level of those other bands. Since leaving though he’s had Adrenaline Mob, Winery Dogs, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance and Sons Of Apollo. Can’t say I care for any of those projects. He’s still doing ok with Neal in NMB and TA but all the newly formed stuff has been disappointing to me. I can see the merits a little bit with Flying Colors as it does have top class musicians but I can’t get past Casey’s voice unfortunately so I’m unable to enjoy them.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I think Mike's problem is that his projects nowadays don't really have songwriters. Mike's good at arranging things, taking pieces and putting them together, reprising bits, and all that. But that only really works when he's got good pieces to work with from the beginning, either from JP and JR when he was in DT, or from Neal, Roine, and Pete in Transatlantic. I don't think he's much of a writer himself, and none of his projects post-DT have had someone who is, as far as I can tell.

Combine that with the fact that a lot of the projects feel a bit like a checklist of people he wants to play with rather than a group naturally arising from musical chemistry, and that none of these projects feel like a full-time commitment (for any of the members), and you've got yourself a pretty good formula for technically proficient but ultimately stale and pedestrian music.

I'm not trying to bash on the guy, because I've liked a lot of what he's done in the past (and preferred the material DT was putting out when he was in the band, versus now), but this is just my take on the situation.

[Bentower]

It's like every song is a typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus. Where's the uniqueness in structure? The music's played well but everything just feels just so obvious and by-numbers. I know MP fashions himself as a song-arrangement genius or whatever, but every song has the exact same structure with only the lengths of each part being extended to make the songs longer. CHANGE THE FORMULA for fucks sake

BINGO!

I'm sad to say that Ron's metal playing has so far been adequate at best. It's clearly not his strongest suit. We've heard the choppy chug riffs of these two songs on the debut already. I find that they lack groove, which is something his solo material has always had in spades. I've been a fan of his for nearly 20 years now, but this context leaves me wanting. I also feel that he hasn't been able to channel his songwriting prowess into SoA. There's a wealth of fine craftsmanship in his past work; She Knows, Delilah, Raygun, Hands, Rowboat, to name a few.

[Madman Shepherd]

So I've been a bit fascinated with Jeff Scott Soto, how I'd basically never heard of him, why he was chosen for SoA and if perhaps it was a misstep to have him join the band since his vocals while not bad by any means, but didnt stand out much. On amazon, a few of his cds popped up on a sidebar for relatively cheap, 6-7 bucks size I figured I'd give them a shot.

First up was his solo cd retribution. Immediately I was struck by how much better his voice sounded. I had to double check when it was released. Same year as Psychotic Symphony. Granted, the vocals were a little more processed but by no means artificial. Also, the melodies just seemed much more inspired. It wouldn't be JSS with a few cringeworthy moments such as the lyrics, "liar pants on fire!" His solo stuff is a bit lighter, never going beyond hard rock but I honestly haven't listened to it much.

Next up, I picked up the Soto cd Divak. I gotta say, this grew on me fast. Again, the vocals sound great. The music is heavy with a few progressive elements. Mostly aggressive and melodic. Instead of harmonizing with Bumblefoot and Portnoy which can be, um, not great, he harmonizes with his own vocals and it sounds awesome. The songs are pretty catchy. A few of been running through my head the last week.

Honestly, this is what adrenaline mob should have sounded like. You want something more mainstream? This is the way to do it. A few people have said JSS is a poor mans russell allen. I disagree. I think russell allen is a poor mans JSS. Granted, I have heard much RA but nothing has impressed me. Maybe one day I'll change my mind like with JSS.

But the last thing I want to say is, this is proof that JSS is being underutilized. I have a theory that with everything Portnoy and Derek have said about wanting SoA to be like a traditional metal band meant for the live setting, I think they are purposely holding him back so the band's backing vocals are expected, his vocals dont come across as too progressive, and possibly trying to make them more raw. This does him a disservice. All vocalists do some processing whether it's a little reverb or some effects but it can positively effect the music immensely.

I'm not sure if anybody here will like the Soto cd and it didnt blow me away but it is much better than I could have imagined.

As for the new SoA song: meh. I wasnt blown away by Goodbye Divinity but grew to love it but this one seems a bit more bland. We'll see.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Origami, Jeff Scott Soto's latest album, is absolutely great!

[cramx3]

Also check out W.E.T. which is JSS with Eclipse's Erik, catchy hard rock.

[Peter Mc]

If you’re looking for Soto at his peak take a look at Marching Out by Yngwie Malmsteen or some of Axel Rudi Pell’s early stuff like Eternal Prisoner.

[Architeuthis]

I think JSS is perfect for SOA, he's a great frontman and his voice fits this kind of music.  I thought he was amazing live and In the studio.  You guys do have me curious about his other works though. 
  I really hope SOA gains momentum and keep putting out albums,  too much talent to let it fade away.

[devieira73]

Origami, Jeff Scott Soto's latest album, is absolutely great!

Totally agree with that! Catchy hard rock really well done.

[devieira73]

I really hope SOA gains momentum and keep putting out albums,  too much talent to let it fade away.

That’s my wish too... It seems, from the majority here, this band is already a big failure. But I have the impression that this opinion about them is bit better from a less hardcore fan base. I know personally another 5 DT fans (besides me and less uber fans like me) and all of them liked the SoA first album a lot. Just for comparision, only 3 liked at least a good part of The Astonishing (including me - In fact, the other 3 HATED TA). The point is, it’s a small group, but I think it maybe represents the average opinion of DT fan base. So, I think there’s still chance for SoA to grow in popularity.
PS: and 3 of them only heard the SoA album by Spotify, which doesn’t help these days

[Fritzinger]

I think the new song has the same problem as Coming Home and also Paralyzed by Dream Theater: All of them have a nice pre-chorus that leads up to - nothing. It just leads back to the main riff with the title of the song being repeated over it.

[Madman Shepherd]

Thanks for the suggestions. A few months back I did get Soto's Yngwie albums. He barely sounds anything like what he does now but I guess he was 19 or something at the time. Not a huge Yngwie fan but it sounded good.

I forgot to mention Dave Z.'s contribution to the Soto album. Unfortunately all i knew about him while he was alive was that he was a replacement of a replacement in Adrenaline Mob. When he died, Portnoy had posted a hilarious video Dave made on tour. So I had no connection with any music he did but he obviously seemed like a cool dude. Well, after listening to Soto, the dude can shred. Really cool bass lines and I think he cowrote one song.

Tragic loss, especially how it all went down.

[RodrigoAltaf]

 David Z was an amazing musician, and I could definitely see him reaching the level that Billy Sheehan is at today. I saw him live with Soto when they opened for The Winery Dogs (on the Hot Streak tour) and he was killer!

[ErHaO]

I checked out Divak (2016) by Soto and think the album is pretty lit. Interested ine exploring the other SOTO albums.

[MoraWintersoul]

That’s my wish too... It seems, from the majority here, this band is already a big failure.

Not necessarily! Maybe an artistic failure, and people here are all too focused on whether the music is original enough to warrant the band's existence, but they don't seem to be struggling to find an audience. They MAY have a problem converting that audience into butts in seats, because concerts cost a lot and they're competing with a lot of bands in this tier, some of them Portnoy's. I think most of us want nothing but success for them even though they aren't our cup of tea.

[Max Kuehnau]

That’s my wish too... It seems, from the majority here, this band is already a big failure.

Not necessarily! Maybe an artistic failure, and people here are all too focused on whether the music is original enough to warrant the band's existence, but they don't seem to be struggling to find an audience. They MAY have a problem converting that audience into butts in seats, because concerts cost a lot and they're competing with a lot of bands in this tier, some of them Portnoy's. I think most of us want nothing but success for them even though they aren't our cup of tea.

and I actually think that (as much as these two aren't my cup of tea so much) MP and Derek actually make sense in this band (in some ways anyway)
Side question on JSS: Before SOA happened, I've heard him on Yngwie albums (and Axel Pell as well) and I liked him there, my question is: I heard he was with Journey for some time. Do you think he was good there? (he's not someone I would have expected in that band, especially since Steve Perry is hard to replace I guess and he is somewhat special as a vocalist IMHO)

[Kwyjibo]

I've heard some bootlegs with JSS in Journey and I think he wasn't the right choice. He has a totally different voice than Steve Perry and the old songs just didn't work (imo) with his vocal style.

[Anxiety35]

It's like every song is a typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus. Where's the uniqueness in structure?

I agree on this. I'll add this intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus

Not piling on as we all can find something to criticize in any song, album, band, etc. Speaking exclusively to the music, SOA has made it easy to do so. The musicianship is great but the songs are just average to above average. I don't see an improvement from the last album in the 2 songs we've been presented. Looks like we will have a better idea when the entire album is released.

[bosk1]

I heard he was with Journey for some time. Do you think he was good there? (he's not someone I would have expected in that band, especially since Steve Perry is hard to replace I guess and he is somewhat special as a vocalist IMHO)

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.

[Max Kuehnau]

I heard he was with Journey for some time. Do you think he was good there? (he's not someone I would have expected in that band, especially since Steve Perry is hard to replace I guess and he is somewhat special as a vocalist IMHO)

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.

this is the answer I wished for, thanks bosk

[Peter Mc]

I would counter this slightly by saying that, although I don’t think he was the right choice for Journey, he actually sounded pretty good imo in the show that I saw. The set was a little tailored for him I think with them including some of their more rockier material from Frontiers and they did draft in Deen for the big power ballads (who also sang them really well) but he by no means sounded out of place.  He actually did an album with Neal Schon for a short lived band called Soul Sirkus (I think that was the spelling) and did a Journey style ballad on there with a passable impersonation of Perry. It wasn’t a bad album from memory and I was a little sceptical as his voice was starting to show its age by the end of his run with Axel Rudi Pell but he continued to sound decent on this without going for the big high screams anymore.

[Lowdz]

I would counter this slightly by saying that, although I don’t think he was the right choice for Journey, he actually sounded pretty good imo in the show that I saw. The set was a little tailored for him I think with them including some of their more rockier material from Frontiers and they did draft in Deen for the big power ballads (who also sang them really well) but he by no means sounded out of place.  He actually did an album with Neal Schon for a short lived band called Soul Sirkus (I think that was the spelling) and did a Journey style ballad on there with a passable impersonation of Perry. It wasn’t a bad album from memory and I was a little sceptical as his voice was starting to show its age by the end of his run with Axel Rudi Pell but he continued to sound decent on this without going for the big high screams anymore.

I’ve always been a JSS fan and I saw Soul Sirkus live. His voice is struggling for the higher stuff now but he has been a great, powerful singer for a long time. It’s strange to think he was only 17 (I think) on the first Rising Force album - he sounded much older.

[ytserush]

Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

Anything with the Billy Sheehan on it always gets my attention. Unfortunately, based on the first studio album I wasn't all that impressed. The live album/DVD is still a keeper. 

[RodrigoAltaf]

 I just did an interview with MP, talking primarily of Sons of Apollo. He mentioned that the next song to be released is Desolate July. It's a different track from what they did before - very soulful kinda song, and talks about the loss of David Z, who died on the Adrenaline Mob accident. He was also on Soto's band.

[MinistroRaven]

Mike Portnoy Drum & Vox Cam - Sons Of Apollo - Fall To Ascend (Stereo Headphone Mix)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2v3pM1IBhs&feature=youtu.be

[MinistroRaven]

Sons Of Apollo - Goodbye Divinity
3,291,789 views

 

[ytserush]

Sons Of Apollo - Goodbye Divinity
3,291,789 views

 

I wonder how that will translate in about 6 months.

[Setlist Scotty]

Interesting little tidbit I stumbled across - Billy was apparently Derek and Mike's only choice for bass when they were first putting SoA together. But if he wasn't available, one of the names that they considered as a backup was Wolfie Van Halen:
https://youtu.be/3OCrPNYGg98?t=1809

[Max Kuehnau]

Interesting little tidbit I stumbled across - Billy was apparently Derek and Mike's only choice for bass when they were first putting SoA together. But if he wasn't available, one of the names that they considered as a backup was Wolfie Van Halen:
https://youtu.be/3OCrPNYGg98?t=1809

not someone I would have thought of tbh, but I always liked his work in Tremonti and of course with VH as well. Not sure how he would have fit in with Derek and MP though.

[Anguyen92]

Well, the thing is with Wolfgang, his age is like half of those guys.  It's hard to say if it would have worked out.  I mean Wolfgang hasn't done anything since the last Van Halen tour (in 2015......) and he left Tremonti.  He says he's been working on a solo album, but he could have released it by now.