Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[cramx3]

I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?  There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!     
   

Not being a dick by 'why'? I don't think there is. The sizes of the venues and the blandness of the music I'd say it's a pretty specific audience. Maybe they do another leg but I doubt it since MP has (2) other bands (maybe 3 now that Transatlantic has recorded) that he will most likely either tour or be recording with.

Seems like their first run through NA wasn't a huge success, MP has said if this tour doesn't do well, there won't be more.  It's a sign of the music and the audience here in the US.  The market for these guys is small and made even smaller when they talk smack (like they did last cycle, but have so far been much better this time). 

[DTA]

I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?  There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!     
   

Not being a dick by 'why'? I don't think there is. The sizes of the venues and the blandness of the music I'd say it's a pretty specific audience. Maybe they do another leg but I doubt it since MP has (2) other bands (maybe 3 now that Transatlantic has recorded) that he will most likely either tour or be recording with.

Seems like their first run through NA wasn't a huge success, MP has said if this tour doesn't do well, there won't be more.  It's a sign of the music and the audience here in the US.  The market for these guys is small and made even smaller when they talk smack (like they did last cycle, but have so far been much better this time).

I mean they're playing in Jim Thorpe, PA. Who made that decision instead of Philadelphia? That's a like a 2 hour ride north of Philly in the middle of the damn Appalachians in winter-time. It's almost like they want low attendance

[Stadler]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's a common tour stop for a lot of bands at that level these days.  I think it's a casino gig (or something similar).  It's also in Mike's back yard (though I don't know if that has any bearing on things).

[Architeuthis]

On the last run through Seattle, they played the Showbox.  Awesome venue that holds around 1000 capacity.  It wasn't full that night but a decent turnout and enthusiastic crowd. I remember people being blown away at how good they were, including myself.  Their music is not bland and translates well live. 
 How are they going to establish a fanbase if they minimise their tours to only thirteen stops in the U.S. ?  I would think a lot of people in different cities want to see them again after the reaction from the crowd that I witnessed the first time around.
 It's too bad that the booking agents for the venues tend to shine on bands like this, even though there is a potential market for them.

[cramx3]

I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?  There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!     
   

Not being a dick by 'why'? I don't think there is. The sizes of the venues and the blandness of the music I'd say it's a pretty specific audience. Maybe they do another leg but I doubt it since MP has (2) other bands (maybe 3 now that Transatlantic has recorded) that he will most likely either tour or be recording with.

Seems like their first run through NA wasn't a huge success, MP has said if this tour doesn't do well, there won't be more.  It's a sign of the music and the audience here in the US.  The market for these guys is small and made even smaller when they talk smack (like they did last cycle, but have so far been much better this time).

I mean they're playing in Jim Thorpe, PA. Who made that decision instead of Philadelphia? That's a like a 2 hour ride north of Philly in the middle of the damn Appalachians in winter-time. It's almost like they want low attendance

I'm guessing those with actual money on the line made the decision.  I'd guess doing Philly was maybe difficult to book (maybe due to money, maybe due to scheduling conflicts) and this was a stop along the way that works for the band/promoters. I'm not really sure I know enough about touring logistics and the money involved to comment more. 

[Madman Shepherd]

Regarding JSS stating that there were discussions about whether the band would even continue, who do you think were leaning towards ending it? I saw the final show of their very first "mini-leg" and JSS seemed over the moon with excitement. Derek has sort of made this his own band in my opinion. It appears as if he may be credited as sole producer on this latest album so I would probably eliminate the two of them as wanting to end it. Then again Jeff seemed pretty frustrated with Derek in the beginning and had moderate success with his band Soto and of course has TSO to fall back on so who knows.

[cramx3]

Regarding JSS stating that there were discussions about whether the band would even continue, who do you think were leaning towards ending it? I saw the final show of their very first "mini-leg" and JSS seemed over the moon with excitement. Derek has sort of made this his own band in my opinion. It appears as if he may be credited as sole producer on this latest album so I would probably eliminate the two of them as wanting to end it. Then again Jeff seemed pretty frustrated with Derek in the beginning and had moderate success with his band Soto and of course has TSO to fall back on so who knows.

These guys are all involved in so much, it could have been any of them. 

[Architeuthis]

If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA decide to call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.
 

[Lupton]

If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.

Well, when they think it's this great thing that it only takes them 9 days to write an album, why should they bother to focus more time on the band? "We works so fast! That makes us so superior to everyone. " 

A handful of days to write, and probably a couple of weeks to record. All that is left is playing shows. That leaves the rest of the time to do what exactly?

[Architeuthis]

If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.

Well, when they think it's this great thing that it only takes them 9 days to write an album, why should they bother to focus more time on the band? "We works so fast! That makes us so superior to everyone. " 

A handful of days to write, and probably a couple of weeks to record. All that is left is playing shows. That leaves the rest of the time to do what exactly?

  I think they are making really good music considering the short writing and recording process. Maybe that's the way they like to work,  or their only option.   I agree with what you are saying though. I would like to see them really focus and put their hearts and minds into making a masterpiece without any distractions. There's too much talent and potential in this band for them not to.

[The Walrus]

I don't appreciate how Mike wants to get in and out with the writing/recording processes as fast as possible yet demands fans go the extra mile to support a band that despite what some of the members have said doesn't feel like a #1 priority altogether. Just always reminds me of the time he sarcastically condescended to a fan about there being "these things called airplanes" if a band isn't playing near him

[Architeuthis]

Yeah,  not everyone can afford to just go hop on a plane and other logistics involving a trip. 

[Lupton]

I don't appreciate how Mike wants to get in and out with the writing/recording processes as fast as possible yet demands fans go the extra mile to support a band that despite what some of the members have said doesn't feel like a #1 priority altogether. Just always reminds me of the time he sarcastically condescended to a fan about there being "these things called airplanes" if a band isn't playing near him

Seriously! It’s like he thinks he deserves more. These guys seem so full of themselves. I get it. Everyone in the band is prodigious at their instrument. Great. Well so are most classical musicians. Ever watch someone play Tchaikovsky’s Violin Concerto? Now that’s challenging stuff! From a technical perspective it makes anything any prog rock musician’s ever done look like “Hot Cross Buns”. This is the reason why songwriting is vastly more important than chops. Chops are a dime a dozen. Watching that one interview about them making that 1st album was so cringeworthy. Ron and Billy seem pretty down to earth and humble (like most the best musicians are), but the other guys can't seem to stop talking about how awesome they are. It was like a circular dick sucking contest. This is much more a turn-off to me than Derek's perceived onstage attitude. When you build something up, it creates a certain level of expectation. It made me curious enough to listen to some of the 1st album tracks on YouTube and man...talk about lameness. Just boring uninteresting crap (IMHO of course. If you like it then more power to you  ). Was so surprised at just how uninspired and insipidly generic the songs seemed (again if this is your thing then I’m happy you have something to brighten your day!  ). But I couldn't make it through a single one. I don't know why, but it wouldn't be as bad to me if their attitude was more along the lines of "Yeah we just showed and slapped together a bunch of crap and said that'll do. Nothing serious. Just doing it for funsies, that’s all" because it sounds precisely that way.

You'd think they'd have learnt that maybe they need to focus more on the songwriting and come up with something more interesting the next time. Maybe it's just not in their collective wheelhouse? Well, as long as there's a bunch of over technical noodling in the music then I suppose that's all that matters right? Seriously, this band seems exactly like what DT always gets unfairly accused of by most non-fans: Great players who can't write for shit. There’s so much great music out there to listen to and these guys have the nerve to act like they should be deserving greater success than they already appreciate? uck. Their lucky anyone cares about what they’re doing at all. No thanks. I think I’ll pass on this next album as that single didn’t do anything for me. I’ll also stop posting in this thread as I don’t want to add any more negativity than I already have to it.

And for the 3rd time. If this is your thing then awesome. Just go about comforted in the knowledge that it must be this “Lupton” guy who has horrible taste and got it completely wrong. If it helps, I’ll admit I’m an idiot and I don’t know anything about what’s good. Does that work for everyone? 

[The Walrus]

I like this Lupton guy. 

[Lupton]

I like this Lupton guy. 

Aw Thanks man. Right back atcha.  I've always dug reading your posts.

[Architeuthis]

I like this Lupton guy. 

Yeah,  I respect his opinion because he respects ours as he said above.  At least he likes Dream Theater so he's cool!    

[KevShmev]

Good post, Lupton!

And I will bold the below...

There’s so much great music out there to listen to and these guys have the nerve to act like they should be deserving greater success than they already appreciate?

Seriously.  I don't have enough time these days to listen to most of what I want to, so I am not about to waste much more time on this band just because two of the members used to be in one of my favorite bands.  I gave the first CD a shot and it was okay.  I gave this new single a shot and it was okay.  Sorry, members of SoA, but "okay music" isn't making its way into my CD player/iPhone on any kind of regular basis.  They aren't total crap like Kiss or Nickeback (most bands aren't), but this just isn't good enough to make a dent with me.

[emtee]

I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

[Lupton]

Yeah,  I respect his opinion because he respects ours as he said above.  At least he likes Dream Theater so he's cool!    

I certainly do consider myself a fan of DT and have enjoyed the majority of their output thus far. And indeed I do respect your opinion very much. It's just as valid and correct as anyone else. Thanks for being so nice about it.  I hope you continue to enjoy the things that bring you happiness (be they SOA or whatever else).

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore in this thread. So I will not be offering anymore snide remarks or negative opinions of this band.

[Architeuthis]

I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

He has been a big part of some special things. The two concept albums with the Neal Morse Band comes to mind. I Think SOA is special, but has the potential to be stellar!  Like you said, taking the time to demo and refine that leads to something great.   Maybe the new SOA album will surprise us.

[SwedishGoose]

I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

He has been a big part of some special things. The two concept albums with the Neal Morse Band comes to mind. I Think SOA is special, but has the potential to be stellar!  Like you said, taking the time to demo and refine that leads to something great.   Maybe the new SOA album will surprise us.

Well looking at the documentary on Similitude of a Dream Mike was happy and wanted to release after the first session. Neal was not satisfied though and went back and rearrang and rewrote and then they had another writing session together all of them.

Had Mike been in charge we would have much different version of Similitude of a Dream.

I think he needs good writers in the band and People who challenge his preffered way of making an album to get a better product.

Sadly SOA seems not to have that, they seem happy to slam so.ething together quickly just so they can tour.

Didn't like the first album... I mean it's not bad... but it's not good either and the second one seems to fall into the same trap.

Spending more time on it they might have been able to improve the album but maybe their strength is not in composing music.

[Stadler]

Good post, Lupton!

And I will bold the below...

There’s so much great music out there to listen to and these guys have the nerve to act like they should be deserving greater success than they already appreciate?

Seriously.  I don't have enough time these days to listen to most of what I want to, so I am not about to waste much more time on this band just because two of the members used to be in one of my favorite bands.  I gave the first CD a shot and it was okay.  I gave this new single a shot and it was okay.  Sorry, members of SoA, but "okay music" isn't making its way into my CD player/iPhone on any kind of regular basis. 

Perfect.  Brilliant.

They aren't total crap like Kiss or Nickeback (most bands aren't), but this just isn't good enough to make a dent with me.

Not perfect.  Not brilliant. 

[Orbert]

I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

Whatever one's opinion is of Mike and how he handled things, I think we all agree that the way things went down between himself and Dream Theater must have crushed him.  He poured his heart and soul into the band for many years, and in his mind and many others it was truly "his baby".  If he never brings himself to fully commit to a band again after that experience, I get it.

[gmillerdrake]

I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

Whatever one's opinion is of Mike and how he handled things, I think we all agree that the way things went down between himself and Dream Theater must have crushed him.  He poured his heart and soul into the band for many years, and in his mind and many others it was truly "his baby".  If he never brings himself to fully commit to a band again after that experience, I get it.

Ehhh....we’ve been over this one a billion times. It may have crushed him but it was his own doing. The way he tried to hamstring the DT guys with forcing a ‘break’ and his comments in the aftermath of the break leave little sympathy from me concerning how crushed he may have been/still be.

[Orbert]

Yeah, we've been over it a billion times, which is why I specifically mentioned that it's irrelevant, and that the point is the effect it had on him and why it might explain his reluctance to fully commit to a band.  It has absolutely nothing to do with sympathy.  It doesn't matter whose fault it is or was.  It happened, and it affected him.

[MirrorMask]

Maybe that's how he likes to do it. It's a mix of:

- Habit
- Not being anymore a young hungry kid with nothing else to do
- Having professional and familiar commitments (his kids are getting adult but maybe he prefers to spend 3 hours with his son rather than spending 3 hours practicing drums)
- The need to have more projects going on for more income

And I know I might be talking out of my ass with this one, but I still suspect that LTE gave MP the idea that, since he could come up (or help other through his arranging, suggestions and generally being there during the creative process) with amazing music in a short timeframe, that's how it could have ALWAYS happened, regardless of the player involved and the style of the music (see the post above about him being already happy with the first writing session of Neal Morse's album). I know they've always wrote fast even before LTE, but since that project I noticed also in DT the vibe of the "ok, this sounds great, it will do" approach.

God of the Sun is the best song on the debut album and it's the one that got worked on most. I don't think that's a coincidence. Then again it's not a rule that if you spend a month on a song, it will turn out good, but still there's a better chance to avoid the same melody (See Alive and Coming Home).

[KevShmev]

Sons of Apollo is like that TV dinner you buy in the store.  It is quick to prepare and can taste decent enough at times to make some people happy, but is ultimately unsatisfying since it makes you feel like it should have been better given the ingredients involved.

Neal Morse Band is like that stew that you put in the crockpot early in the day and then take out right at dinner time.  It was given time to slowly cook and marinate, and by the time it is ready to go, you are like, "Ahhhhh, this is how it should be!"

 

[Stadler]

I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

Whatever one's opinion is of Mike and how he handled things, I think we all agree that the way things went down between himself and Dream Theater must have crushed him.  He poured his heart and soul into the band for many years, and in his mind and many others it was truly "his baby".  If he never brings himself to fully commit to a band again after that experience, I get it.

Ehhh....we’ve been over this one a billion times. It may have crushed him but it was his own doing. The way he tried to hamstring the DT guys with forcing a ‘break’ and his comments in the aftermath of the break leave little sympathy from me concerning how crushed he may have been/still be.

Yeah, I don't know about you but for me "his own doing" doesn't always cover it.  I don't want to rehash Mike's specific situation, but we don't always do a great job of understanding and anticipating each and every consequence of all of our actions.  It's one thing when you kill someone - there's an expectation there - but everything down to the interpersonal... there's a lot of cases where you can't really know what you're going to do or how you'll feel until you touch the hot stove. 

[Madman Shepherd]

If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.

Well, when they think it's this great thing that it only takes them 9 days to write an album, why should they bother to focus more time on the band? "We works so fast! That makes us so superior to everyone. " 

A handful of days to write, and probably a couple of weeks to record. All that is left is playing shows. That leaves the rest of the time to do what exactly?

That's how they recorded the first one but it seems like they took more time with this one. From what I gathered they got together at Mike's house for a few days to jam and write as a group and then continued to write and record individually for the next several months. Not ideal but a better system than they had in place for the first one. All the while it seems as if Derek was acting as the sole executive producer.

I agree it's kind of arrogant to expect fans to devote more time to the band than they care to devote themselves though.

[ErHaO]

If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.

Well, when they think it's this great thing that it only takes them 9 days to write an album, why should they bother to focus more time on the band? "We works so fast! That makes us so superior to everyone. " 

A handful of days to write, and probably a couple of weeks to record. All that is left is playing shows. That leaves the rest of the time to do what exactly?

That's how they recorded the first one but it seems like they took more time with this one. From what I gathered they got together at Mike's house for a few days to jam and write as a group and then continued to write and record individually for the next several months. Not ideal but a better system than they had in place for the first one. All the while it seems as if Derek was acting as the sole executive producer.

I agree it's kind of arrogant to expect fans to devote more time to the band than they care to devote themselves though.

Not sure where this "they barely put effort into it" narrative comes from, but here is a quote I found from Derek regarding their debut:

DS: No, we started writing about a year ago when Mike and I decided to do this. I started writing right away and demoing ideas. And then once he got Bumblefoot in it, he started doing the same. And then when we got in the studio we all collaborated and then put the record together. Some of the ideas were written individually, but they were completed in person in the studio when we recorded the record

While they completed the songs in a bit more than a week, they definitely did write and demo stuff beforehand. And in other interviews Derek/MP specifically mention the process behind God of the Sun as something that was written over a longer period of time.

This particular source: http://www.loveispop.com/interviews/a-god-strikes-an-interview-with-derek-sherinian-of-sons-of-apollo/

[Madman Shepherd]

That's an interesting interview. The mediabook of the first album makes it seem like while there were some ideas worked out beforehand that the vast majority were done in the studio with the exception of God of the Sun.

[Trav86]

I finally sat and watched the video for the new single today. It’s really not bad. Like, if the song comes up on shuffle, I’ll listen to it.

[cramx3]

I finally sat and watched the video for the new single today. It’s really not bad. Like, if the song comes up on shuffle, I’ll listen to it.

It's a solid song.  I don't turn it off when it comes up next when just listening to whatever youtube generates next for me.

[devieira73]

Interesting insight of this song composition process:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gYG0O_irPtE&feature=youtu.be

[Bentower]

Surprising to see that Goodbye Divinity has 1,1 million views on YouTube already. Good for them, but I can't help but wonder what caused that spike this time around. I listened to it twice and was underwhelmed enough to not make that thrice until I have the album in my hands.