Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[ReaperKK]

He just sounds like generic rock singer to me.

[Volante99]

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.

[Kilgore Trout]

Considering the career of these guys, it should take them 20 minutes to write a song like this. It's "three chords intro/the simpliest heavy riff they could think of/weak verse/weak chorus (that sounds like every chorus on their first album)/instrumental part based on technics that DT have used 150 times at this point /chorus/intro again" and all is done.
It's not bad and I don't even dislike it, but it's like they don't even try to be a little creative.

[majo]

Considering the career of these guys, it should take them 20 minutes to write a song like this. It's "three chords intro/the simpliest heavy riff they could think of/weak verse/weak chorus (that sounds like every chorus on their first album)/instrumental part based on technics that DT have used 150 times at this point /chorus/intro again" and all is done.
It's not bad and I don't even dislike it, but it's like they don't even try to be a little creative.

that's exactly how I feel about them... still enough of talent/quality in the band to really enjoy them live.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Another thing is that a lot of people comment that they get a FII vibe..honestly I don't see the similarity..I listened it 3 times so far and to me it's like Coming Home but a more robust song, with a cool intro (2:20 till the verse kicks in), heavy tight rhythm sections, great chorus and amazing solos..I have to say Derek's solos have improved very much over time and some of them are very memorable, and Ron well his is just a beast..Their style is a mix of just the kind of music they enjoy playing individually and they start to show how they've matured as a band!

[emtee]

Decent song. Not great, not terrible. Not digging
JSS vocals at all. To me, he's very monotone and conveys
no emotion. He's the weak link in this band.

[Stadler]

I think gzarruk mentioned this, and I've said it before too, but it's not JUST about whether we "like" Jeff's voice or not. It's also how it fits in the music.   Like him or not, but David Lee Roth's voice range and timbre FIT with Van Halen.   As great a singer as I think Bono is, he would sound like shit in Sons of Apollo or Dream Theater as well.  You listen to the early Zeppelin, and each member has it's "sonic range" of sorts, and no one is really competing with each other.  I think more than any of Mike's bands, SoA seems to have five musicians all competing in the same sonic space, and FOR ME (I don't expect anyone else to share this) the melodies and parts aren't compelling enough to consistently cut through. 

To copy Bosk:
-Neal Morse Band:  automatic buy
-Transatlantic:  automatic buy
-Sons of Apollo:  wait and see, but studio albums are a likely buy (didn't buy Plovdiv)
-Flying Colors:  automatic buy
-everything else:  not likely purchases unless I hear something that truly wows me

I don't think of it this way, but essentially I'm buying Neal Morse records with Mike on them, not the other way around.

[TAC]

To copy Bosk:
-Neal Morse Band:  automatic buy
-Transatlantic:  automatic buy
-Sons of Apollo:  wait and see, but studio albums are a likely buy (didn't buy Plovdiv)
-Flying Colors:  automatic buy
-everything else:  not likely purchases unless I hear something that truly wows me

I don't think of it this way, but essentially I'm buying Neal Morse records with Mike on them, not the other way around.

There is absolutely nothing he has done that I am even the slightest bit interested in.

I don't think the first A Mob album is actually that bad, but I haven't gone back to it. I wouldn't have even considered it had it not been for MP, but if he's not going back to it, I'm likely not either.

I'm on record as being optimistic about the next SOA album, but I honestly thought the first one was absolutely dreadful.

The Metal Allegience really does nothing for me.

NMB (I respect, but not my thing), Transatlantic (definitely not my thing), and Flying Colors (f'n blows if you ask me) hold no interest for me.



Like I said at the time of the split...I'm not only losing MP (who was my fave member) from my favorite band, I'm likely losing MP period.

[The Walrus]

^ Good to know... I was gonna send Winery Dogs in the last round of your roulette.

[TAC]

^ Good to know... I was gonna send Winery Dogs in the last round of your roulette.

 Oh God no. I forgot about them. I listened to the first album and it was a generic piece of youknowwhat.

[The Walrus]

^ Good to know... I was gonna send Winery Dogs in the last round of your roulette.

 Oh God no. I forgot about them. I listened to the first album and it was a generic piece of youknowwhat.

I'm in the minority that things the second album is vastly superior. Guess what you're getting. Consider yourself lucky. I might throw Britney Spears and Eminem on there for giggles

[TAC]

^ Good to know... I was gonna send Winery Dogs in the last round of your roulette.

 Oh God no. I forgot about them. I listened to the first album and it was a generic piece of youknowwhat.

I'm in the minority that things the second album is vastly superior. Guess what you're getting. Consider yourself lucky. I might throw Britney Spears and Eminem on there for giggles

I might throw 4.0s and 5.0s on there for giggles.

[Ben_Jamin]

Can't stand the tone in the intro, it's too loud and grating. The rest of the song sounds like the debut album. It was ok.

[Lupton]

Fairly generic songwriting. Great playing. The intentional dropped beat at 6:49 took me by surprise...thought it was a mistake at 1st.

[EPIC Outro]

I remember hearing either MP or DS promoting the debut album, and hyping up the fact that JSS could recreate his studio vocals effortlessly live. I think it was a dig at JLB. But I also think JSS hasn't been allowed to go all out in the studio for fear that his live vocals might fall short.

[Volante99]

I remember hearing either MP or DS promoting the debut album, and hyping up the fact that JSS could recreate his studio vocals effortlessly live. I think it was a dig at JLB. But I also think JSS hasn't been allowed to go all out in the studio for fear that his live vocals might fall short.

For whatever reason he is holding back (if he is at all), I think it’s a good thing. Having him belt it out like he’s in Steel Dragon or Yngwie’s Rising Force isn’t going to make Sons of Apollo any better in my opinion.

[gzarruk]

I think gzarruk mentioned this, and I've said it before too, but it's not JUST about whether we "like" Jeff's voice or not. It's also how it fits in the music.   Like him or not, but David Lee Roth's voice range and timbre FIT with Van Halen.   As great a singer as I think Bono is, he would sound like shit in Sons of Apollo or Dream Theater as well.  You listen to the early Zeppelin, and each member has it's "sonic range" of sorts, and no one is really competing with each other.  I think more than any of Mike's bands, SoA seems to have five musicians all competing in the same sonic space, and FOR ME (I don't expect anyone else to share this) the melodies and parts aren't compelling enough to consistently cut through. 

That's it. I obviously can't talk about the new album, but one of the biggest problems (to me) of the debut was that they have a guitarist, a bassist who thinks he's a guitarist, and a keyboardist who thinks he's a guitarist too, so there's a lot of sections on PS where everything sounds super muddy because they're all competing in the same frequency range. On top that, you got Soto singing in this mid range voice through most of the songs (with the ocassional YEAH! every once in a while), and there's just not enough dynamic in the music to make the songs stand out.

For what's worth, I kept 5 songs from their debut and am still looking forward to this one, but my expectations aren't too high anyway.

[bill1971]

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

 I agree it's a vocals were more memorable and the drum parts were more interesting and the riffs were better.

 which reminds me I think I'm going to play distance over time again today.

[ReaperKK]

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.

On the subject of Ron I think he is a phenomenal guitar player. His chops are in the 1% but he reminds me a bit of Guthrie Govan. Guthrie is one of my all time favorite guitar players, his technical ability is nearly unmatched but he shines the best is when he is under some really tight constructs.

His output on Steven Wilson's two albums was really, really good and that's largely because Steven called the shots. Guthrie's best solos came out of those records. Left to his own devices I feel he, and Ron, will just run wild with sixtuplet hybrid chicken picked/legate runs.

This isn't just limited to guitar. JR is one of the most brilliant keyboard players I've seen but on his solo albums he'll set the stage with a beautiful melody and then just lay into it.

[Volante99]

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.

On the subject of Ron I think he is a phenomenal guitar player. His chops are in the 1% but he reminds me a bit of Guthrie Govan. Guthrie is one of my all time favorite guitar players, his technical ability is nearly unmatched but he shines the best is when he is under some really tight constructs.

His output on Steven Wilson's two albums was really, really good and that's largely because Steven called the shots. Guthrie's best solos came out of those records. Left to his own devices I feel he, and Ron, will just run wild with sixtuplet hybrid chicken picked/legate runs.

This isn't just limited to guitar. JR is one of the most brilliant keyboard players I've seen but on his solo albums he'll set the stage with a beautiful melody and then just lay into it.

Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath. 

[Stadler]

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.

On the subject of Ron I think he is a phenomenal guitar player. His chops are in the 1% but he reminds me a bit of Guthrie Govan. Guthrie is one of my all time favorite guitar players, his technical ability is nearly unmatched but he shines the best is when he is under some really tight constructs.

His output on Steven Wilson's two albums was really, really good and that's largely because Steven called the shots. Guthrie's best solos came out of those records. Left to his own devices I feel he, and Ron, will just run wild with sixtuplet hybrid chicken picked/legate runs.

This isn't just limited to guitar. JR is one of the most brilliant keyboard players I've seen but on his solo albums he'll set the stage with a beautiful melody and then just lay into it.

Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath. 

This is (partly) why Dave Murray has quietly moved to number two on my all time favorite guitar player list.   

[ytserush]

I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.

That's just the way it is.

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. As long as the guy is serving the song (which he does) I don't have a problem with it.

[Peter Mc]

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.

On the subject of Ron I think he is a phenomenal guitar player. His chops are in the 1% but he reminds me a bit of Guthrie Govan. Guthrie is one of my all time favorite guitar players, his technical ability is nearly unmatched but he shines the best is when he is under some really tight constructs.

His output on Steven Wilson's two albums was really, really good and that's largely because Steven called the shots. Guthrie's best solos came out of those records. Left to his own devices I feel he, and Ron, will just run wild with sixtuplet hybrid chicken picked/legate runs.

This isn't just limited to guitar. JR is one of the most brilliant keyboard players I've seen but on his solo albums he'll set the stage with a beautiful melody and then just lay into it.

Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath. 

He did some good stuff with Whitesnake I thought on the Slip Of The Tongue album.

[Peter Mc]

I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.

That's just the way it is.

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. As long as the guy is serving the song (which he does) I don't have a problem with it.

Doesn’t bother me either, I agree that his playing is more predictable and you can see stuff coming but sometimes familiarity isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes it’s nice to hear something and go “oh that’s classic Mike Portnoy”. I always enjoy his drumming on the NMB/TA albums even if he’s largely doing the same thing. It’s comforting at times to be able tap along and know what’s coming.

[gmillerdrake]

I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.

That's just the way it is.

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. As long as the guy is serving the song (which he does) I don't have a problem with it.

Doesn’t bother me either, I agree that his playing is more predictable and you can see stuff coming but sometimes familiarity isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes it’s nice to hear something and go “oh that’s classic Mike Portnoy”. I always enjoy his drumming on the NMB/TA albums even if he’s largely doing the same thing. It’s comforting at times to be able tap along and know what’s coming.

I can overlook MPs predictability in TNMB due to the music/creativity is far superior than his other projects IMO. Neal is great at crafting songs and MPs ‘bag of tricks’ are a much better fit in TNMB than his other gigs. TSOAD and TGA were choc full of the ‘same old same old’ from MP but it fits so well it doesn’t matter.

 I prefer Eric over any of the other guitar players he’s played with the past 10 years, I like Randy better on Bass than any other and I’d take Bill any day of the week and twice on Sunday over DS.

I think those guys get more out of MP and challenge him than any of the other lineups he’s been in.

[Volante99]

Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath. 

He did some good stuff with Whitesnake I thought on the Slip Of The Tongue album.

Vai is good on that one too but credit where credit is due, 95% of that album (including the guitar parts) was written by Adrian Vandenberg. I do love Vai’s playing on the album, though, and I love that album in general. Glad people seem to finally be coming around to it and Whitesnake did an awesome release for its 30th anniversary. Even Coverdale says he likes it more now than he did in ‘89.

[Fritzinger]

I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.

That's just the way it is.

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. As long as the guy is serving the song (which he does) I don't have a problem with it.

Doesn’t bother me either, I agree that his playing is more predictable and you can see stuff coming but sometimes familiarity isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes it’s nice to hear something and go “oh that’s classic Mike Portnoy”. I always enjoy his drumming on the NMB/TA albums even if he’s largely doing the same thing. It’s comforting at times to be able tap along and know what’s coming.

I can overlook MPs predictability in TNMB due to the music/creativity is far superior than his other projects IMO. Neal is great at crafting songs and MPs ‘bag of tricks’ are a much better fit in TNMB than his other gigs. TSOAD and TGA were choc full of the ‘same old same old’ from MP but it fits so well it doesn’t matter.

 I prefer Eric over any of the other guitar players he’s played with the past 10 years, I like Randy better on Bass than any other and I’d take Bill any day of the week and twice on Sunday over DS.

I think those guys get more out of MP and challenge him than any of the other lineups he’s been in.

Amen to this. The Neal Morse Band is fantastic. And they don't have three guitarists all playing in the same frequency spectrum. Morse just knows how to craft and arrange music.

[Volante99]

I feel like JSS and Thal are the weak links here.

JSS is JSS but Ron just seems like he’s on auto-pilot. I need more creativity from him. I remember when the band was hyping their first album Thal always seemed like the least enthused about the project. I’m sure that’s partly just his personality and I assume a guitarist of that caliber wouldn’t be there unless he really wanted to but I feel like even his playing seems uninterested.

[Peter Mc]

Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath. 

He did some good stuff with Whitesnake I thought on the Slip Of The Tongue album.

Vai is good on that one too but credit where credit is due, 95% of that album (including the guitar parts) was written by Adrian Vandenberg. I do love Vai’s playing on the album, though, and I love that album in general. Glad people seem to finally be coming around to it and Whitesnake did an awesome release for its 30th anniversary. Even Coverdale says he likes it more now than he did in ‘89.

I think Vai was always supposed to do the solos wasn’t he and then ended up playing Vandenberg’s parts as well. That’s always how I understood it, those solos sound like trademark Steve Vai to me. The album is decent but suffered in comparison as it followed their biggest album. Like you, I’m glad it’s getting a bit more recognition. Wings Of The Storm was a personal favourite song and awesome solo.

[TAC]

I never gave it a chance, honestly.

I had been a Whitesnake fan since the early 80's and bringing Vai in seemed nothing but a gimmick.

[PetFish]

I never gave it a chance, honestly.

I had been a Whitesnake fan since the early 80's and bringing Vai in seemed nothing but a gimmick.

Definitely not a gimmick.

Vandenberg got hurt and couldn't play so Vai was asked to fill in.  I don't know if they asked anyone else or if anyone else was even available.  If Vai is a gimmick then so is MP playing in Avenged Sevenfold.

[Peter Mc]

Remember when Mike tried to claim that this was not a side project but was a proper full time band and would be the top priority for all 5 of them? Just saw an interview with Thal where he said the album was done in 8 days as that was all the time they could spare. Sounds an awful lot like a side project to me where they cobble something together in a few days when they have time off from other things. If this is how little time and effort they put in, it doesn’t make me want to rush out and buy it.

[TAC]

I never gave it a chance, honestly.

I had been a Whitesnake fan since the early 80's and bringing Vai in seemed nothing but a gimmick.

Definitely not a gimmick.

Vandenberg got hurt and couldn't play so Vai was asked to fill in.  I don't know if they asked anyone else or if anyone else was even available. 

All I can do is give you my thoughts at the time.

[Peter Mc]

I never gave it a chance, honestly.

I had been a Whitesnake fan since the early 80's and bringing Vai in seemed nothing but a gimmick.

I don’t think you were alone, I think the music press kind of ran with that at the time but I always thought it was unfair. I’m not a huge fan of Whitesnake in that I tend to like their hair metal 80’s stuff which I’d guess their hardcore fans probably hate. Slip Of The Tongue had some not so good songs but some really decent stuff as well. Wings Of The Storm is a great song as is Judgment Day and Sailing Ships. I have a soft spot for Now You’re Gone too.

[TAC]

I don't honestly remember what the press said. I read Kerrang but I don't remember what they said. Hit Parader and Circus were basically publicity rags anyway.

Whitesnake went form a band, and even though they had a lot of lineup changes, sacking the 1987 band for some sort of all star touring band, and then brining in Vai, I don't know. I just couldn't get behind it. Weren't their shows like 75 mins too?