Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Trav86]

Lost me with the fedora.

[bosk1]

Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now.

I understand what you are saying, factually.  I just don't get why it is a criticism.  The vast, vast majority of drummers out there are predictable after you've heard the first few albums from them.  It's kinda the nature of the job.  So, yeah, I pick up an album with MP on it, and I don't usually hear much in the drum department that surprises me.  But I can usually say the same thing about pretty much any other drummer on any other album I listen to as well. 

[Trav86]

As a drummer who grew up listening to and learning from MP. It’s kind of annoying seeing him still get recognized in magazines for “Prog Drummer”. Especially since he hasn’t progressed.

[The Walrus]

Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now.

I understand what you are saying, factually.  I just don't get why it is a criticism.  The vast, vast majority of drummers out there are predictable after you've heard the first few albums from them.  It's kinda the nature of the job.  So, yeah, I pick up an album with MP on it, and I don't usually hear much in the drum department that surprises me.  But I can usually say the same thing about pretty much any other drummer on any other album I listen to as well.

Well, it's a criticism by its fundamental nature. He's making art, and people are pointing out things they like or dislike about it. It's perfectly valid criticism. Other musicians being predictable doesn't mean it's not a real critique of a musician to say they're using predictable fills, which Mike admittedly does, and that's mostly just a consequence of his prolific nature as a musician. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just like, oh, there's that recognizably Portnoy fill again. Basically any observation of his playing or writing is criticism on a fundamental level, it's how you word it or how much it matters to someone that makes it good/bad, and again, it's pretty much all subjective, and from there you can agree or disagree with the person making the criticism

[The Letter M]

As a drummer who grew up listening to and learning from MP. It’s kind of annoying seeing him still get recognized in magazines for “Prog Drummer”. Especially since he hasn’t progressed.

To be fair, a lot of Prog (capital P) is about homaging the music of old, sticking within certain parameters of classic prog rock music. Progressive music as a movement takes those ideas and pushes them forward. There's a lot of bands in the former category these days that rely on the familiar, the nostalgia that many fans of the 70's era have, and since many of those bands haven't produced that kind of music since then, new bands have picked up that baton and have been carrying it for years.

Then we get other bands and artists who are pushing those boundaries and creating new sounds and ideas. Both kinds of prog rock are fine, but I think it's better to recognize that some bands are just going to excel at rehashing the same ideas over and over, and that's okay too.

-Marc.

[Adami]

I've given some thought to why the MP criticism, specifically that he just plays the same old thing, is so often given to him, but so few other drummers, most of whom ALSO play within a strict bag of tricks.

I think one reason is the novelty and specific voice MP has in his drummer. When Phil Rudd plays the same thing over and over, he's not doing anything directly associated with him. There's no Phil Rudd beat. There are MP beats and MP fills though. So I think hearing such specific things over and over stands out a lot more than hearing generic things over and over.

I have the same issue with Michael Romeo. All of his solos sound mostly the same to me, and that's because he has a specific style. If he just played generic, I'd likely not notice so much.

[kaos2900]

Never got the first album but gave this a shot. Enjoyed the intro quiet a bit, and then JSS started singing and they lost me. Some cool musical stuff, but as others have said nothing new or special that a ton of other bands aren't doing now. JSS just does NOTHING for me. 

[romdrums]

It's New Millennium for a new millennium.

[kaos2900]

It's New Millennium for a new millennium.

 

[TAC]

 

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Just listened Goodbye Divinity, really cool song..is anyone excited for the new album?

[Stadler]

There's no Phil Rudd beat.

Haha, for some reason that made me laugh out loud.

[Madman Shepherd]

Derek and Bubmbleboot seem more cohesive in the middle/solo section. I liked that part. Felt a little Planet X in there.

The song itself is pretty good. Nothing "groundbreaking" but it's solid. It's an improvement in the aspect of writing a song.

I wish Soto would let loose with his vocals. Seems he stays in a restricted place with SOA except for his "yeah!" here and there.

I don't think he has the ability to do much more at this point in his life. Honestly, I don't know much about him so if someone can prove me wrong, I'm open to it. I picked up his Yngwie albums and he doesn't sound remotely the same. I'm not saying that to criticize because I think he was still a teenager at the time, but I've even heard some things from him in the 90s and he still sounded vastly different than he does now.

He's still a pretty good vocalist but that's about it at this point.

[Polarbear]

Leaving all the recent comments by MP aside, and i really enjoyed that song! And i don't get the New Millennium comparisons..

[bosk1]

Derek and Bubmbleboot seem more cohesive in the middle/solo section. I liked that part. Felt a little Planet X in there.

The song itself is pretty good. Nothing "groundbreaking" but it's solid. It's an improvement in the aspect of writing a song.

I wish Soto would let loose with his vocals. Seems he stays in a restricted place with SOA except for his "yeah!" here and there.

I don't think he has the ability to do much more at this point in his life. Honestly, I don't know much about him so if someone can prove me wrong, I'm open to it. I picked up his Yngwie albums and he doesn't sound remotely the same. I'm not saying that to criticize because I think he was still a teenager at the time, but I've even heard some things from him in the 90s and he still sounded vastly different than he does now.

He's still a pretty good vocalist but that's about it at this point.

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.

Fast-forward a few months to August 2007.  There was a fan-appreciation concert for Y&T.  I was lucky enough to have my number called to get up onstage improptu and get to sing a song with Y&T.  I got up and did Meanstreak.  And other than being a bit off-key on the last chorus, I nailed it.  But that is a hard song.  And I know from previously being in a Y&T tribute band that I do NOT have the power and stamina to comfortably sing a headliner-length set of their material.  It just isn't comfortably in my range.  Why am I mentioning that in connection with JSS?  Because he was at that same show.  Immediately after I got off the stage, this curley-haired dude gets up onstage with them, and does the same song and another one.  I didn't recognize him at first.  But about a verse into Meanstreak, it dawned on me, "Holy crap!  That's Jeff Scott Soto!  And he's doing the same song I just did!"  And here's the thing:  About halfway through, he had to pass if back to Dave Menketti for the choruses.  And he did the same thing with Open Fire (the next song).  Afterwards, I had a guy come up to me and start high-fiving me for how I "wiped the floor" with Jeff Scott Soto.  And while I appreciate the compliment, I quickly pointed out to him that I am in no way worthy to be compared to that guy.  I just knew from personal experience where the tricky parts were in that song and how to carry them off.  I knew that that song (and others in that catalog) is deceptively a lot trickier than it sounds--I just had had the practice and experience to know how to pull it off, even though it might not have been comfortably in my range.  JSS didn't, even though he is a lot more talented. 

Again, none of that is in any way a knock on JSS.  I still think he is a phenomenal singer.  And, again--just to be clear--I am NOT saying that my abilities hold a candle to his.  I am nothing more than an amateur who occasionally does some covers in a garage band and some occasional small gigs.  My voice overall doesn't have the warmth, depth, or range as his.  But, without taking anything away from JSS, the above did confirm to me that he likely isn't physically comfortable having to sing for a long, sustained amount of time outside of a certain range.  And I think you hear that in the SoA sets (including the Plovdiv set), where his voice gets tired and he loses range and power as the sets progress.  That isn't meant to be a knock in him in any way--just my best analysis of what I hear/see, and why.

[goo-goo]

I enjoyed the song quite a bit and sounds more cohesive. The main turn off for me is JSS. I mean, the guy can sing and stuff, but I'm not a fan of his tone/pitch of his voice. Would have preferred someone with a rougher edge. Also, I know MP's fills have been discussed a lot in the last replies but I think the song would have benefited WITHOUT those fills. The intro is awesome, right until MP comes in. The build up towards JSS is great, but I'm quickly turned off by MP coming in. Sometimes it's ok not to play. I love DS tone to death. Anyways, I'll give the album a shot. SoA shines in a live setting and this song will kick ass if they open the show with it.

[MoraWintersoul]

A contributing factor to this discussion is that people are quick to abandon bands whose singers they don't 100% gel with, but here we have a ton of people listening to the third recording of SoA and wishing JSS was better. I think he's just fine. Very few people can compare to Russell Allen or Steve Perry or other names that have been floated in the thread.

[bosk1]

Third time through, and the song is growing on me.  I get VERY STRONG NM and LITS vibes from it.  I'm sure they'll release another one or two before the album drops, so I'll ultimately decide whether I'm buying AFTER I hear a bit more.  But as of right now, I'm leaning toward buying.

So to cross-pollinate this with recent discussion in the MP thread, I guess here's where I am now with respect to MP-related projects when new albums drop:
-Neal Morse band:  automatic buy
-Transatlantic:  automatic buy
-Sons of Apollo:  wait and see, but studio albums are a likely buy
-Flying Colors:  wait and see
-everything else:  not likely purchases unless I hear something that truly wows me

[bosk1]

Very few people can compare to Russell Allen or Steve Perry or other names that have been floated in the thread.

Absolutely.  And I'm sure this goes without saying, but as for my comments above, I was not necessarily trying to unfairly compare him to those singers. 

[Madman Shepherd]

Derek and Bubmbleboot seem more cohesive in the middle/solo section. I liked that part. Felt a little Planet X in there.

The song itself is pretty good. Nothing "groundbreaking" but it's solid. It's an improvement in the aspect of writing a song.

I wish Soto would let loose with his vocals. Seems he stays in a restricted place with SOA except for his "yeah!" here and there.

I don't think he has the ability to do much more at this point in his life. Honestly, I don't know much about him so if someone can prove me wrong, I'm open to it. I picked up his Yngwie albums and he doesn't sound remotely the same. I'm not saying that to criticize because I think he was still a teenager at the time, but I've even heard some things from him in the 90s and he still sounded vastly different than he does now.

He's still a pretty good vocalist but that's about it at this point.

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.

Fast-forward a few months to August 2007.  There was a fan-appreciation concert for Y&T.  I was lucky enough to have my number called to get up onstage improptu and get to sing a song with Y&T.  I got up and did Meanstreak.  And other than being a bit off-key on the last chorus, I nailed it.  But that is a hard song.  And I know from previously being in a Y&T tribute band that I do NOT have the power and stamina to comfortably sing a headliner-length set of their material.  It just isn't comfortably in my range.  Why am I mentioning that in connection with JSS?  Because he was at that same show.  Immediately after I got off the stage, this curley-haired dude gets up onstage with them, and does the same song and another one.  I didn't recognize him at first.  But about a verse into Meanstreak, it dawned on me, "Holy crap!  That's Jeff Scott Soto!  And he's doing the same song I just did!"  And here's the thing:  About halfway through, he had to pass if back to Dave Menketti for the choruses.  And he did the same thing with Open Fire (the next song).  Afterwards, I had a guy come up to me and start high-fiving me for how I "wiped the floor" with Jeff Scott Soto.  And while I appreciate the compliment, I quickly pointed out to him that I am in no way worthy to be compared to that guy.  I just knew from personal experience where the tricky parts were in that song and how to carry them off.  And that's all true. 

Again, none of that is in any way a knock on JSS.  I still think he is a phenomenal singer.  And, again--just to be clear--I am NOT saying that my abilities hold a candle to his.  I am nothing more than an amateur who occasionally does some covers in a garage band and some occasional small gigs.  My voice overall doesn't have the warmth, depth, or range as his.  But, without taking anything away from JSS, the above did confirm to me that he likely isn't physically comfortable having to sing for a long, sustained amount of time outside of a certain range.  And I think you hear that in the SoA sets (including the Plovdiv set), where his voice gets tired and he loses range and power as the sets progress.  That isn't meant to be a knock in him in any way--just my best analysis of what I hear/see, and why.

Video evidence or it didn't happen! 

Seriously though, that's a hell of a story. I can kind of relate too. I do some singing and have gotten a lot of compliments but I don't have a great technique and after a few songs my voice is fried. That's why I have a tremendous appreciation for James LaBrie who may not be able to match what he did in the early 90s, but can somehow still pull of singing for hours every night and hit a lot, but maybe not all, of the high notes.

Jeff still sounds good but pretty limited in what he can do and that's fine.

[gzarruk]

Giving it a second listen right now. Some quick thoughts:

- Bumble still is the MVP of this band.
- MP sounds like a guy in an MP cover band, "Hmmm... I wonder which MP fill should I use here?... I'll just use all of them!".
- Derek still doesn't know how to make interesting solos with SOA (and he CAN, Trial of Teas anyone?)
- Jeff's vocals remind me of a recent MP incident (annoying vocals, that is). Also, like mentioned below, him always singing in the same middle range doesn't help the vocal lines stand out, just uneventful singing at best.

Other than that, I think the song is ok. It's miles better than Coming Home, but Signs of the Time was much better than both of these anyway. And I feel like they still haven't decided whether they want to be a prog metal -ish band or a hard rock band. The song sounds like they tried to do both and it feels a bit disjointed, specially that chugga chugga riff that comes out of nowhere.

[bosk1]

Video evidence or it didn't happen! 

You've seen mine, haven't you? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mY9J2Z57Y

And, yeah, I fully own that I completely DO look like a dork.  But a couple of things in my defense:  I was REALLY tired from a lot going on in my work life and other stuff ahead of making the couple hours drive to this show.  I knew about the fan appreciation thing ahead of time, and my buddy Steve had been trying to convince me to throw my name in the hat to sing.  I was determined not to, and told him I wasn't.  And I couldn't be bothered to even dress for a rock show, much less to be onstage, and just threw on some shorts and a Disney shirt, which is about as UN-metal as you can get.  A bit after we walked in before the show, Jill Meniketti spotted me, and asked whether I had gotten a raffle ticket to go up and sing.  I told her I wasn't doing it, and she basically said "Yes you ARE!" and handed me a ticket.  So...there you go.  I wasn't prepared to do it, and was shocked when my ticket number was called later than night--so shocked that I didn't even remember to untie the hoodie I had tied around my waist.    Oh well...

Unfortunately, there isn't any video of JSS.  I wish there was, because I was so in shock upon realizing who he was that I barely paid attention to the performance. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

And still no War Pigs video...

 

[TAC]

Coz

[King Postwhore]

Bosk1. I love it.  Can't wait to see the Rock doc.

[Madman Shepherd]

Holy crap. Bosk is a lot cooler than I thought.

That was pretty awesome.

[Adami]

Put it on for a second listen.

Fell asleep. Might’ve been unrelated but still.

[bosk1]

Holy crap. Bosk is a lot cooler than I thought.

You have low standards. 

[Madman Shepherd]

Holy crap. Bosk is a lot cooler than I thought.

You have low standards. 

Well if it helps, my opinion of you was pretty low before this.





KIDDING! KIDDING!

[bosk1]

  Fair enough.















































And also:

[bill1971]

That was really good Bosk! I must admit I was nervous for you when I clicked the link, but it was very cool and well done. I give you tons of credit.

[gzarruk]

Bosk can sing!

[Peter Mc]

Love the intro and build up to the song but the song itself is fairly uninspiring to my ears. Shame because the intro was epic and made me think it would be an epic sounding song. Instead the song seems to bear no resemblance to the intro at all and is a fairly dull metal song.

Similar to Bosk, when it comes to Mike these days only NMB and TA are blind purchases. SOA is a try before you buy and I’ve long given up on any of the others.

[ReaperKK]

I just got through listening to the new single and I think it's good. I like it a lot better than anything off the first album.

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

[KevShmev]

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.