Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[The Walrus]

Despite having no interest in the band, and thinking that logo of theirs with the animals and instruments is way too busy and the album name sucks - the purplishness and spacey background are dope, so it's automatically better art than the first record. The first record's art looks like the artwork of another band's tour poster to me, just some bland fancy looking wallpaper. 

[Stadler]

Just for the record, Mike changed the lyrics:  "Plus, as the song’s lyricist, I took artistic license and changed the lyric from ‘Shannon Hoon’ to ‘Chris Cornell’ to give it a little more relevance in 2019.”

I never took that to be a shot at Shannon Hoon (now Cornell) or Kurt Cobain, but rather the "big machines" for trading on the artists like a commodity, perhaps even contributing to their deaths in an indirect way, then turning around and capitalizing on it after the fact.   Not trying to change your mind - rather admire your stance, frankly; that's how you do it if you ask me - just offering another viewpoint. 

[Samsara]

Just for the record, Mike changed the lyrics:  "Plus, as the song’s lyricist, I took artistic license and changed the lyric from ‘Shannon Hoon’ to ‘Chris Cornell’ to give it a little more relevance in 2019.”

I never took that to be a shot at Shannon Hoon (now Cornell) or Kurt Cobain, but rather the "big machines" for trading on the artists like a commodity, perhaps even contributing to their deaths in an indirect way, then turning around and capitalizing on it after the fact.   Not trying to change your mind - rather admire your stance, frankly; that's how you do it if you ask me - just offering another viewpoint.

"make yourself a household name."

Mike was taking a shot in my opinion. And I don't think Cornell's situation was the same as either Cobain or Hoon. It's called READ THE ROOM/SITUATION. MP tends to not see/do that sometimes. The way DT handled Cornell was extremely classy. Putting his headstone in the animations with other metal/rock legends as a way of saluting Cornell, instead of what Mike did. I was very disappointed. Again, I spoke with my wallet. MP doesn't care, but they didn't get my 30 bucks or whatever for the live release.

[MirrorMask]

It's weird because "the big machine takes care of you until you kill yourself and then the sales go through the roof" is definitively a critic at the system, but the following stanza with "Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain make yourself a household name" never really seemed that much sympathetic towards those two.

[KevShmev]

Hmmm, I wonder if Derek wrote the lyrics to track 5 and if it will be auto-biographical?

[gzarruk]

Hmmm, I wonder if Derek wrote the lyrics to track 5 and if it will be auto-biographical?

 

[Stadler]

Just for the record, Mike changed the lyrics:  "Plus, as the song’s lyricist, I took artistic license and changed the lyric from ‘Shannon Hoon’ to ‘Chris Cornell’ to give it a little more relevance in 2019.”

I never took that to be a shot at Shannon Hoon (now Cornell) or Kurt Cobain, but rather the "big machines" for trading on the artists like a commodity, perhaps even contributing to their deaths in an indirect way, then turning around and capitalizing on it after the fact.   Not trying to change your mind - rather admire your stance, frankly; that's how you do it if you ask me - just offering another viewpoint.

"make yourself a household name."

Mike was taking a shot in my opinion. And I don't think Cornell's situation was the same as either Cobain or Hoon. It's called READ THE ROOM/SITUATION. MP tends to not see/do that sometimes. The way DT handled Cornell was extremely classy. Putting his headstone in the animations with other metal/rock legends as a way of saluting Cornell, instead of what Mike did. I was very disappointed. Again, I spoke with my wallet. MP doesn't care, but they didn't get my 30 bucks or whatever for the live release.

I suppose; to me, though, that line, in the context of everything else (including his view of the making of FII) can be read two ways:

"A daily does of eMpTyV will flush your mind right down the drain; Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain make yourself a household name" as in somehow Hoon and Cobain are at fault for somehow taking an easy way out (a "shot" as someone said above).

"A daily does of eMpTyV will flush your mind right down the drain; Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain make yourself a household name" said with rue and regret, as in, by your death inadvertently you have ceded control and the 'big machine" is going to take full advantage of your tragedy. 

There are probably more ways to take it, but Mike's lyrics aren't exactly Neal Peart's, and so if there is ambiguity and/or multiple interpretations, I choose to take the one that fits with the Mike I met, not the one that stood on the stage in the Phillipines or whatever.

[NoFred]

It’s a distant memory, but didn’t Shannon Hoon directly call out DT for something, and this lyric was an explicit response to that (was he dead yet when they wrote the lyric?)

Anyway seems like putting in CC also makes it more of an industry manipulation interpretation, and not directly to the individuals (which I recall referencing SH was)

[ytserush]

In again for the 2CD set, but I'll need to blown away by it to ever see these guys live at this point.

 The Live CD/DVD is probably it for me unless there's some growth.  If there is, I'm probably looking at Penn's Peak.

[Cool Chris]

Maybe he changed the lyric because in 2019 no one knows who the hell Shannon Hoon is.

[Stadler]

It’s a distant memory, but didn’t Shannon Hoon directly call out DT for something, and this lyric was an explicit response to that (was he dead yet when they wrote the lyric?)

Anyway seems like putting in CC also makes it more of an industry manipulation interpretation, and not directly to the individuals (which I recall referencing SH was)

Hoon died in late spring of '95.  FII came out in late '97.

It wasn't Hoon, it was his band mates.   They had one of those "rate this song" things in Guitar For The Practicing Musician" and they killed "Pull Me Under".  Ironic, in a guitar mag a couple of feel guys with one album bagging on Petrucci for playing "cock rock".

Though if you read here, the mod of their official forum says Portnoy is better than Peart, not ironically.   (The transcript of the GFTPM interview is there too).

[cramx3]

I'm just glad the album comes out before the tour starts, that could have been a disaster IMO in the sense that this band is such on the fringe that touring without knowing the new songs could put a lot of fans on the edge of attending.  Then again, the quality of the album might do the same but I like this better.

[NoFred]

It’s a distant memory, but didn’t Shannon Hoon directly call out DT for something, and this lyric was an explicit response to that (was he dead yet when they wrote the lyric?)

Anyway seems like putting in CC also makes it more of an industry manipulation interpretation, and not directly to the individuals (which I recall referencing SH was)

Hoon died in late spring of '95.  FII came out in late '97.

It wasn't Hoon, it was his band mates.   They had one of those "rate this song" things in Guitar For The Practicing Musician" and they killed "Pull Me Under".  Ironic, in a guitar mag a couple of feel guys with one album bagging on Petrucci for playing "cock rock".

Though if you read here, the mod of their official forum says Portnoy is better than Peart, not ironically.   (The transcript of the GFTPM interview is there too).

Nice thanks for finding, off to the blind melon board I go reading...

[Volante99]

I’ll give this band one more shot but the first album didn’t do much for me.

Portnoy is doing his best to keep things jamming but Derek is still using his same sounds from 1995, Billy Sheehan plays his bass like a second guitarist avoiding as much groove as possible, and Ron Thal seems...uninterested. All this could be overlooked and taken for what it is; a showcase of some extremely talented players. Unfortunately, Jeff Scott Soto plasters the proceedings with his AOR cheese fest vocals.

[MoraWintersoul]

Never thought those lyrics were taking a shot at anyone, more at the music industry. When MP takes a shot at people in particular, it's a little less ambiguous, like Raise The Knife.

Anyone else think they're making a mistake by taking DT songs out of the setlist? FII songs are a big part of MP's and DS's musical history, they fit into their set and sound good. Many bands who can "stand on their own feet" include covers in their live sets, so why would they leave them out just to prove a point? Even Steven Wilson includes PTree into his live set nowadays, and no one says it's because his solo music isn't good enough.

[JayOctavarium]

I think it's a mistake. It's not like they're a crutch. At least keep Lines In The Sand in the setlist. I didn't see them on the last tour, and probably won't be able to see them on this run. The fact that Mike and Derek feel the need to take DT songs out of the set is making want to spend even less effort to be able to go see them. I'd rather see LitS performed by Derek (and Mike) than the current DT lineup.

[Setlist Scotty]

Anyone else think they're making a mistake by taking DT songs out of the setlist? FII songs are a big part of MP's and DS's musical history, they fit into their set and sound good. Many bands who can "stand on their own feet" include covers in their live sets, so why would they leave them out just to prove a point? Even Steven Wilson includes PTree into his live set nowadays, and no one says it's because his solo music isn't good enough.

Not necessarily - I can see why they're doing it. They don't want to give the impression that they're trying to ride on the coattails of their previous band, which you know critics of the band will just love to use.

You cite Steven Wilson doing PT songs in his set "nowadays" - so does that mean that for a period of time he didn't? If yes, then this really isn't any different. I can imagine that if they continue with SoA in the coming years, at a certain point they'll bring a DT song back in the set, especially if for a special occasion. In particular, I can imagine them doing ACoS for an anniversary. But not right now.

[Max Kuehnau]

Anyone else think they're making a mistake by taking DT songs out of the setlist? FII songs are a big part of MP's and DS's musical history, they fit into their set and sound good. Many bands who can "stand on their own feet" include covers in their live sets, so why would they leave them out just to prove a point? Even Steven Wilson includes PTree into his live set nowadays, and no one says it's because his solo music isn't good enough.

Not necessarily - I can see why they're doing it. They don't want to give the impression that they're trying to ride on the coattails of their previous band, which you know critics of the band will just love to use.

You cite Steven Wilson doing PT songs in his set "nowadays" - so does that mean that for a period of time he didn't? If yes, then this really isn't any different. I can imagine that if they continue with SoA in the coming years, at a certain point they'll bring a DT song back in the set, especially if for a special occasion. In particular, I can imagine them doing ACoS for an anniversary. But not right now.

SW actually didn't play PT material live for a time during his solo career yes. (not until the tour for The Raven anyway) If you were to reference the Get All You Deserve live album (which is really good actually IMHO), you won't find any PT material on that live album.

[Stadler]

I get the arguments either way, and I'm good with the band decision, except... I'd rather hear something off FII than a Van Halen or an Ozzy song.   I LOVE me some Van Halen, but in it's place.   

[Madman Shepherd]

From the band's facebook page:

The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century! 

 


I'll probably get the two disc. Liner notes were cool in the first one so I hope they include extensive stuff like that again.

That said, I'm really only getting this to be a completist. Won't be making the effort to see them live at all.

[KevShmev]

Never thought those lyrics were taking a shot at anyone, more at the music industry. When MP takes a shot at people in particular, it's a little less ambiguous, like Raise The Knife.

Anyone else think they're making a mistake by taking DT songs out of the setlist? FII songs are a big part of MP's and DS's musical history, they fit into their set and sound good. Many bands who can "stand on their own feet" include covers in their live sets, so why would they leave them out just to prove a point? Even Steven Wilson includes PTree into his live set nowadays, and no one says it's because his solo music isn't good enough.

Okay, but there are some major differences there:

1) Dream Theater is still an active band; Porcupine Tree is not.
2) Steven Wilson was always the main writer (often times, the only writer) and creative driving force of Porcupine Tree. For as many hats as Portnoy wore in Dream Theater, he never came close to equaling what Wilson did in Porcupine Tree (from an overall standpoint).

[MinistroRaven]

From the band's facebook page:

The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century! 

 

What?

[Samsara]

re: SOA taking out DT songs from the set.

As Scotty said, I totally get why they are doing that, and I respect it. I think it is the correct move.

However, that said, being selfish, I really love FII, and really enjoyed those songs being played. And frankly, I don't see DT ever playing much from FII again, particularly as they go forward and make new records. The catalog is big, and DT honestly doesn't need to play anything from it. The majority of the fan base (which I am decidedly in the minority) doesn't really like FII all that much. I think it would be a nice touch, given that MP/DS thing, to always play a at least one song from it. It could be something like Anna Lee, re-worked, or just a nod to that record. But again, that is totally selfish on my part, being a big fan of the FII record.

[cramx3]

re: SOA taking out DT songs from the set.

As Scotty said, I totally get why they are doing that, and I respect it. I think it is the correct move.

However, that said, being selfish, I really love FII, and really enjoyed those songs being played. And frankly, I don't see DT ever playing much from FII again, particularly as they go forward and make new records. The catalog is big, and DT honestly doesn't need to play anything from it. The majority of the fan base (which I am decidedly in the minority) doesn't really like FII all that much. I think it would be a nice touch, given that MP/DS thing, to always play a at least one song from it. It could be something like Anna Lee, re-worked, or just a nod to that record. But again, that is totally selfish on my part, being a big fan of the FII record.

I'd be cool with that, but they really don't need to play DT songs now that they have enough material for a full show.  But I don't hate the idea of keeping some of those lesser played FII songs in the setlist just because its a bit more unique. 

However, I'm not sure DT won't be playing FII any less than they already do, but they've pulled out Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen in recent tours.

[Max Kuehnau]

re: SOA taking out DT songs from the set.

As Scotty said, I totally get why they are doing that, and I respect it. I think it is the correct move.

However, that said, being selfish, I really love FII, and really enjoyed those songs being played. And frankly, I don't see DT ever playing much from FII again, particularly as they go forward and make new records. The catalog is big, and DT honestly doesn't need to play anything from it. The majority of the fan base (which I am decidedly in the minority) doesn't really like FII all that much. I think it would be a nice touch, given that MP/DS thing, to always play a at least one song from it. It could be something like Anna Lee, re-worked, or just a nod to that record. But again, that is totally selfish on my part, being a big fan of the FII record.

I'd be cool with that, but they really don't need to play DT songs now that they have enough material for a full show.  But I don't hate the idea of keeping some of those lesser played FII songs in the setlist just because its a bit more unique. 

However, I'm not sure DT won't be playing FII any less than they already do, but they've pulled out Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen in recent tours.

do they actually though? (only if they were to play both albums entirely. Psychotic Symphony is about 58 minutes long and the new one will be about an hour long)

[gzarruk]

I get the arguments either way, and I'm good with the band decision, except... I'd rather hear something off FII than a Van Halen or an Ozzy song.   I LOVE me some Van Halen, but in it's place.

This. I never got why, if they were going to record a live album and needed some extra stuff to complete their set, they never played more DS era DT, instead of doing a bunch of overplayed covers by other bands they don't even have ties to.

However, I'm not sure DT won't be playing FII any less than they already do, but they've pulled out Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen in recent tours.

Peruvian Skies and Trial of Tears too.

[cramx3]

Forgot about Peruvian Skies (which is actually most recent) but when has DT played Trial of Tears recently?

re: SOA taking out DT songs from the set.

As Scotty said, I totally get why they are doing that, and I respect it. I think it is the correct move.

However, that said, being selfish, I really love FII, and really enjoyed those songs being played. And frankly, I don't see DT ever playing much from FII again, particularly as they go forward and make new records. The catalog is big, and DT honestly doesn't need to play anything from it. The majority of the fan base (which I am decidedly in the minority) doesn't really like FII all that much. I think it would be a nice touch, given that MP/DS thing, to always play a at least one song from it. It could be something like Anna Lee, re-worked, or just a nod to that record. But again, that is totally selfish on my part, being a big fan of the FII record.

I'd be cool with that, but they really don't need to play DT songs now that they have enough material for a full show.  But I don't hate the idea of keeping some of those lesser played FII songs in the setlist just because its a bit more unique. 

However, I'm not sure DT won't be playing FII any less than they already do, but they've pulled out Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen in recent tours.

do they actually though? (only if they were to play both albums entirely. Psychotic Symphony is about 58 minutes long and the new one will be about an hour long)

Well sounds like it if they played both albums that's 2 hours.  However, you know they will do their solo spots too so it probably means 4 or 5 less songs from the catalog but they would probably play almost everything they got.

[gzarruk]

Forgot about Peruvian Skies (which is actually most recent) but when has DT played Trial of Tears recently?

2014, AFTR tour. It's not that "recently", but you mentioned BMS, which was played in 2015, so it's just one year before

[cramx3]

Forgot about Peruvian Skies (which is actually most recent) but when has DT played Trial of Tears recently?

2014, AFTR tour. It's not that "recently", but you mentioned BMS, which was played in 2015, so it's just one year before

Fair enough, I was just thinking since MM joined really (and I still can't recall ToT, was that in Euro only? I've never seen DT play it and Ive gone to just about every tour since SC years).  It seems like FII really hasn't been ignored at all, although it's never been and never will be an album that gets lots of love.  I'd imagine we get more of it once DT stops playing full albums live. 

[gzarruk]

Forgot about Peruvian Skies (which is actually most recent) but when has DT played Trial of Tears recently?

2014, AFTR tour. It's not that "recently", but you mentioned BMS, which was played in 2015, so it's just one year before

Fair enough, I was just thinking since MM joined really (and I still can't recall ToT, was that in Euro only? I've never seen DT play it and Ive gone to just about every tour since SC years).  It seems like FII really hasn't been ignored at all, although it's never been and never will be an album that gets lots of love.  I'd imagine we get more of it once DT stops playing full albums live.

They played it on the whole tour, it's even on the BTFW live album lol.

About playing more FII songs live, I just can't imagine JP not wanting to play LITS again at some point. THAT SOLO, man.

[cramx3]

  total brain fart, I saw that show three times and own the blu ray.

[Samsara]

I am assuming SOA will NOT be playing two-hour shows. My guess is more like 90-100 minutes. Not based on anything. Just my own speculation. I forget how long the shows were on the last tour (I was at my local one). But I don't think it was two hours. I think it was closer to 90 minutes, and I suspect that's all they will do as a headliner, unless it is a special show for some reason.

[cramx3]

They were an hour and 45 minutes.  A full headline set.  I expect it to be the same, that's kind of normal for a MP band to play a full show.  It's not like they are touring with a big opening band that commands a long set either. 

[Madman Shepherd]

From the band's facebook page:

The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century! 

 

What?

18th century = 1800s, 19th century = 1900s, right? MMXX = new decade, right? Ah forget it.

[hefdaddy42]

From the band's facebook page:

The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century! 

 

What?

18th century = 1800s, 19th century = 1900s, right? MMXX = new decade, right? Ah forget it.

No.

21st Century = 2000s
20th Century = 1900s
19th Century = 1800s

etc