Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[The Walrus]

The prog crowd is so stiff.  (I get it, I get it, trust me, I do. I'm just poking fun.)

[MoraWintersoul]

Joakim from Sabaton is the best.  When I saw them open for Iced Earth, he dropped an F-bomb and then immediately lectured the kid in the front row to never repeat the word.  Then he swore again as a joke.      The kid ended up getting his aviators later on and his dad was loving the experience.

It's super awesome that he did that, and it probably fills your heart with joy as parents to see that. I guess I just disagree other frontmen should be judged by that standard. I'm not saying I want all rock shows to be R-rated, but knocking a frontman for keeping the show PG13 even though he's being recorded isn't something I'll be interested in even if/when I have kids. There's tons of really educational documentaries I wouldn't watch around kids because they show disturbing things, but I don't feel sad that the creators didn't modify them and make them kid-friendly, even though it would have been useful. Wheel of Time is a great book to read after The Hobbit/LotR, but even its religious author didn't shy away from showing more adult topics, even though he knew kids love fantasy lit and parents would love to read it to them. Not to mention A Song of Ice and Fire: if I have kids, I'll put WoT on a taller shelf, but ASOIAF will have to be in a secret compartment or something 

 I really wouldn't bring a kid to a Sabaton show. Yeah, their audience is a bunch of geeks and the content of their music is super interesting for kids, but still. It's a metal show. People mosh. People make out, with all the adjacent-body-part-squeezin'. People drink way too much alcohol. The dad made his choice and brought him to that show but he should have been prepared for things to go much differently. If you only want to show your kids clean language media, prepare to play pretty much zero live albums around them.

[bosk1]

But in all seriousness, how fragile a person do you have to be to get upset...

Again, I don't think anyone is talking about being "upset."  I'm not sure why you make the leap to assume that anyone who doesn't like something is "offended" or "upset."  I like a lot of what Orbert said here:

[quote}But it still says something about them if the first thing they do is call the audience a bunch of fuckers. 

…

That doesn't offend me so much as it just annoys me. [/quote]

That's a lot of it.  And that goes toward answering the question you posed to me. 

Words have meaning.  And words have significance.  And that goes beyond the plain meaning of the words.  By our words, we can enter into a legally binding contract.  By our words, we can commit hate speech.  By our words, we can defame somebody.  By our words, we can build somebody up or we can tear somebody down.  And a lot of what we convey with our words, again, goes beyond the simple, plain meaning of the words.  Intended or not, our word choice can convey things about us. 

To me, most of the time (but a lot really depends on context), what someone who uses profanity is conveying about themselves is not positive.  It can suggest a number of things, but none are really constructive. 

But, again, I'm not "offended."  At the end of the day, those words haven't "hurt" me in any meaningful way.  Not in the slightest.  Words alone don't have that kind of power.  But they do have the power to hurt the speaker's reputation and others' perception of him/her.

Anyhow, that's my feeling on the matter.  Hope it was helpful, whether anyone agrees or not.  But we're getting far afield from SoA.

[The Walrus]

And I disagree, damn it.

I appreciate the response, bosk, thank you. For the record the reason I used the words "upset" or "offended" is because of some of the examples people have used about 'protecting' kids from the words in public or even at home from the TV, or how the guy mentioned earlier got upset because of the frontman calling the audience "fuckers." It wasn't intended as commentary on anybody here, specifically. This is fascinating to me because I grew up in a house where language was used since as far as back as I can remember, and the strong words in and of themselves don't bother me (but words that could be racist, sexist etc. do bother me). But yeah, getting a ways away from SoA now. Appreciate the discussion.

[Stadler]

I am watching the whole concert now, and it seems to my not trained ears that the mix it's a bit different (in a good way).

Now, why do you mix the audio for the video differently than the one for the CD?

I'm not a professional mixer (but I played one on TV once) but there are a couple reasons.   One, dynamic range; CD's aren't always played in the same way or in the same place as DVDs .   Two, the spatial mix of the CD.   Three, the spatial mix of the DVD (as I understand it, the 5.1 mixes often start with a different stereo mix).  Four, it may not actually be a different MIX exactly, but rather sound different based on the sound processing used (you can tell the difference between a Dolby processed sound signal and not). 

I've on several occasions now ripped the audio from my DVDs and put it on my music server, even though I have the audio already from the CD.   It often sounds different (I'm not always 1000% sure why, but see above). 

[bosk1]

I will add one more thing though.  (always have to have the last word; I know, I know...  )  Again, I'm more just sharing my personal mindset than wagging my finger at anyone.  I'm not for a moment saying people can't use whatever language they want.  With some very limited exceptions, I don't go around on this forum (or in real life) telling people they can't use profanity.  I am around people all the time who do.  Some are friends and family.  I take it in stride and look past it, and don't really look at it as my job or duty to tell anyone who isn't my child what words they can use.

[Grappler]

And I disagree, damn it.

I appreciate the response, bosk, thank you. For the record the reason I used the words "upset" or "offended" is because of some of the examples people have used about 'protecting' kids from the words in public or even at home from the TV, or how the guy mentioned earlier got upset because of the frontman calling the audience "fuckers." It wasn't intended as commentary on anybody here, specifically. This is fascinating to me because I grew up in a house where language was used since as far as back as I can remember, and the strong words in and of themselves don't bother me (but words that could be racist, sexist etc. do bother me). But yeah, getting a ways away from SoA now. Appreciate the discussion.

The only thing I'm saying is that I'm more cognizant of the language I expose my kids to.  They're too young and could care less about metal music right now (it's "daddy's music" to them).  But if I were to sit down and watch a concert DVD with them at some point, I wouldn't want constant F-bombs being dropped.  I think a rock band can tone down language (that isn't lyrical content, but just between-song banter) at times without sacrificing their performance.  If you know you're recording a DVD for a very special performance, wouldn't you want to tone it down just a bit, rather than going full-bore vulgar? 

It's not off-putting to ME in the slightest.  I swear too much at home as it is, even in front of my kids when I know I shouldn't, but I do think when bands overuse it, it can get a little juvenile. 

I'm still looking forward to this release, since I never saw Sons of Apollo live, but if there is a ton of swearing, it's not something I'm going to put on in front of my kids.  That's all I mean by my post earlier. 

As to the dad who brought his kid to a metal show (Sabaton/Iced Earth), I think it's awesome and I can't wait to do that with mine.  I know what to expect and what they'd be exposed to, and I'd bring them to an appropriate show.  My point was that even bands who do swear on stage can make it light and in that instance, Joakim turned it into a big joke with a dad and his son and everyone in the room got a big laugh from it.

[The Walrus]

Oh, I'm sorry Grappler - I certainly hope you didn't read that as me judging you or anything. It's all good, brudda.

[bosk1]

Yeah, it's all good.  He's only judging me, not you. 

[The Walrus]

You know me so well. 

[Grappler]

 

No worries - a few people quoted my post and I just wanted to say that I'm not personally bothered by bands swearing, but I do have to be more aware of it based on family reasons.  And like it or not, bands are certainly public figures and sometimes even role models in a way.  Yes, rock and metal is loud, rude and brash - but again, if you're recording this very special DVD, why wouldn't you want to just keep things a touch cleaner for posterity's sake? 

[The Walrus]

You say that, but, I mean, MP's own website had "Tweet My Ass & Balls" front and center at the top of his own website for years. I don't think they're the kind of people to spend even a fraction of this much thought on the subject. Unless maybe Billy Sheehan got some information from Xenu about swearing. IDK.

[Skeever]

Oh c'mon. I get being offended by foul language but acting as if prog bands are somehow on a higher artistic level than normal rock bands and therefore shouldn't swear is such an elitist mentality.

Maybe it's just different tastes, but I'm not at all interested in any type of prog music that doesn't try to attain that higher artistic level. That's the problem with the Sons, they don't try, they're happy in the gutter. If I want to let lose, there are a lot of bands that will help me with that more than the Sons.

Also, imagine Jon Anderson singing "hands up you fahkers!" during an audience applause after Close to the Edge 

[Madman Shepherd]

A band called Three Inches of Blood opened for King Diamond many years ago. Not a good fit for many reasons.  After the first song the vocalist yells, "Hey fuckers how ya doing?!?"

Older dude in front of me, old school, longish grey hair with receding hairline responds without skipping a beat, "Not good. You just called me a fucker."

Ha.... yeah insulting your audience is not the best thing to do.

Saying things like: "Thanks for tonight, you were fucking amazing!", is ok in my book but keep the swearwords to a minimum. Calling your audience fuckers..... not acceptable

You must really hate Ozzy then! 

I dont mind when bands cuss but it can at times be annoying. That was one of them. We're not a bunch of frat dudes hanging out, and also the guy was playing to an audience of king diamond fans. He's not our buddy and the crowd didn't particularly care for the band.

Also for the record, bands typically CAN hear you when they claim they can't. They're just being facetious.

[Stadler]

Oh c'mon. I get being offended by foul language but acting as if prog bands are somehow on a higher artistic level than normal rock bands and therefore shouldn't swear is such an elitist mentality.

Maybe it's just different tastes, but I'm not at all interested in any type of prog music that doesn't try to attain that higher artistic level. That's the problem with the Sons, they don't try, they're happy in the gutter. If I want to let lose, there are a lot of bands that will help me with that more than the Sons.

Also, imagine Jon Anderson singing "hands up you fahkers!" during an audience applause after Close to the Edge 

No, but I understand last tour Steve Howe threw a bucket of confetti on the first couple rows while screaming "Let me see your fucking hands!" and clapping like he was still learning how. 

[Skeever]

 

[Ben_Jamin]

But in all seriousness, how fragile a person do you have to be to get upset at a frontman calling the audience "fuckers" in a lighthearted manner? "Hey fuckers, how ya doing?" is offensive? Nobody ever has malicious intent by saying that stuff unless it's at a heckler or someone causing trouble in the crowd. At a metal show of all things? I get why people don't use language around kids. I don't get why it's a big deal amongst grown adults at a rock/metal show. I imagine in the 80s anyone complaining about a bad word would be called, er, well, an even worse bad word, if you catch my drift.

Remember adults/parents are taking kids to places/events that Adults 30 years ago would never have taken their kids to.

[MinistroRaven]

I am watching the whole concert now, and it seems to my not trained ears that the mix it's a bit different (in a good way).

Now, why do you mix the audio for the video differently than the one for the CD?

I'm not a professional mixer (but I played one on TV once) but there are a couple reasons.   One, dynamic range; CD's aren't always played in the same way or in the same place as DVDs .   Two, the spatial mix of the CD.   Three, the spatial mix of the DVD (as I understand it, the 5.1 mixes often start with a different stereo mix).  Four, it may not actually be a different MIX exactly, but rather sound different based on the sound processing used (you can tell the difference between a Dolby processed sound signal and not). 

I've on several occasions now ripped the audio from my DVDs and put it on my music server, even though I have the audio already from the CD.   It often sounds different (I'm not always 1000% sure why, but see above).

Thank you Stadler

[goo-goo]

Perfect example right now is DT's Distance over Time. The stereo mix ripped from the bluray is way better than the CD or HDTracks version.

[MinistroRaven]

Some toughts from a friend after listening the promo:

"- Bumblefoot is clearly the MVP of this band. Not only he's a mind blowing guitarist, his backup vocals really help the songs come alive.

- Not a fan of the cover songs, and Jeff didn't exactly perform them too well.

- The solo spots felt like a waste of time, specially Sheehan's (sorry).

- Wasn't bothered by the audio mix, but some of the video shots could've been better.

- They nailed the DT tunes. Again, huge props to Bumblefoot for those JP parts and solos.

- The band seems, to me, like they aren't sure what their objective is. They reach some prog territory with a couple of their songs and were able to do the DT songs justice, but then move to just being a classic rock covers supergroup, with the "rock" attitude and all of that. Like they wish they were part of one of those old bands and some of their other songs reflect that. They don't seem to find their place just yet. Let's see where the second album goes musically."

[PMA]

Some toughts from a friend after listening the promo:

"- Bumblefoot is clearly the MVP of this band. Not only he's a mind blowing guitarist, his backup vocals really help the songs come alive.

- Not a fan of the cover songs, and Jeff didn't exactly perform them too well.

- The solo spots felt like a waste of time, specially Sheehan's (sorry).

- Wasn't bothered by the audio mix, but some of the video shots could've been better.

- They nailed the DT tunes. Again, huge props to Bumblefoot for those JP parts and solos.

- The band seems, to me, like they aren't sure what their objective is. They reach some prog territory with a couple of their songs and were able to do the DT songs justice, but then move to just being a classic rock covers supergroup, with the "rock" attitude and all of that. Like they wish they were part of one of those old bands and some of their other songs reflect that. They don't seem to find their place just yet. Let's see where the second album goes musically."

I haven't yet seen the whole show but am a fan of any highly technical prog performances so I look forward to getting this.  That said, I wasn't hugely impressed with SoA's studio release and the songs began to sound the same after several listens.  I also am not a fan of JSS"s singing style and agree with others that he can sound like he's straining.  Bumblefoot's voice in the DT tune they've released where he takes some lead vocals sounded thin and I didn't care for it.  Maybe it's just the tune so I'll wait to see if he covers anything else.  Playing wise, they are top notch and I'm glad Portnoy and Sherinian decided to do this but I also hope their next release will be better.

[MirrorMask]

- The solo spots felt like a waste of time, specially Sheehan's (sorry).

More a need to fill up time, since they only have one album after all!

[Peter Mc]

There’s never any excuse for a bass solo spot!

[MirrorMask]

There’s never any excuse for a bass solo spot!

I remember on a Stratovarius live album the drummer, during his solo, said in the middle "Good news is - no bass solo. Bad new is - the drum solo hasn't ended", and carried on 

[cramx3]

On Kamelot's tour they are doing a drum and keyboard thing together, I feel like if you want to incorporate solo spots, doing something like combining two into one that is more musical and interesting is better than just one person beating their instrument to death.  I'm mostly not a fan of solo spots, but for SOA, if I remember correctly, Bumblefoot's solo is more of a band spot playng the Pink Panther theme (which was cooler than I expected) and JFF's was him singing his Queen covers (I think the band even came in at the end?) so I found those solo spots to also be more interesting than the instrument beating.

[Madman Shepherd]

First show announced for 2020. St Charles, IL, January 31st.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1076109729251210/

This promoter is notorious for spilling the beans early so I expect this will either be taken down for a bit or a full tour announcement is coming very soon

[bosk1]

They put on a good show last time around.  But if this is real, I'm not seeing them again without them having some new music.

[The Walrus]

On my birthday, within driving distance.  Wish it was the Dogs instead. 

[bosk1]

Insomnia issues?

[The Walrus]

Insomnia issues?

Huh? It's only 12:30 here. The night is young.

[Madman Shepherd]

They put on a good show last time around.  But if this is real, I'm not seeing them again without them having some new music.

Isn't their new album due out early next year? Would make sense to tour in support of it unlike last time where they release the album and then tour several months later.

[Podaar]

Insomnia issues?

Huh? It's only 12:30 here. The night is young.

I believe he was responding to your wish to see "the Dogs instead". As in, only someone with insomnia issues would want to listen to the Winery Dogs since their music is so incredibly sleep inducing. 

[The Walrus]

Insomnia issues?

Huh? It's only 12:30 here. The night is young.

I believe he was responding to your wish to see "the Dogs instead". As in, only someone with insomnia issues would want to listen to the Winery Dogs since their music is so incredibly sleep inducing. 

  

[cramx3]

They put on a good show last time around.  But if this is real, I'm not seeing them again without them having some new music.

Aren't they expecting an early 2020 release?  I do hope the new album would be out before they tour again too. 

[Stadler]

If there's no album, there's almost zero chance I'm seeing them again in 2020.  I'll go if they're touring new music, but there wasn't enough there for me to want to see the same set again.