Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Adami]

Maybe. But I'm also thinking he might be getting a bit burned on the METAL stuff. He always has that Metal Allegiance stuff too. And I doubt he'll ever STOP playing metal. I just feel like the next "super" group will be more classic prog than metal. Could be wrong.

[cramx3]

I think MP wants to make money and that's not doing prog.  I could also see him going more metal route, but honestly, I feel TWD are his best bet.  I think they will for sure get back together for another album and tour. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Is it possible that Mike P. is talked about (to the point of obsession) more than any other (current or former) member of Dream Theater, let alone any musician? I'm sure Mike would appreciate that!

[Adami]

Is it possible that Mike P. is talked about (to the point of obsession) more than any other (current or former) member of Dream Theater, let alone any musician? I'm sure Mike would appreciate that!

Obsession? Don't see that anywhere here. But to be fair, he does give us more to talk about than any other DT member.

DT have largely been quiet with a few very well calculated posts about the new album. MP just says and does whatever, whenever, and often. Gives us a lot of conversation fuel.

[Anxiety35]

8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig. He's done a lot but he hasn't found the one band where it's become his main thing. Many projects equal different revenue streams but as an artist I'm sure he would like to have one band be his main priority (a secure foundation like DT was) and the side projects be just for fun. Now the projects are  instead required, at least from an income standpoint. He hops from one thing to the next. I know he likes the various things he's involved with, but I can't help but wonder if he desires a main band again. 

Honestly, I don't ever see MP doing just one main gig anymore. I think he really has tried with SOA. It's not a sinking ship, but I don't believe it went where he thought it would go thus far.

[bosk1]

8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.

Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

[MoraWintersoul]

He's got nowhere else to go though. Could you imagine him starting another band and trying to gain any momentum knowing that TWD, SoA, and AM were all ended prematurely? He's got to know that SoA is basically his last resort and the only thing he could do otherwise is join a band that already has a pre-existing audience like he did with A7X.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story), but there are several more stories going on here that I thought I'd try to take a crack at.

For one, Mike is also a person with an inbuilt fanbase, he's a highly acclaimed drummer, with a fantastic business sense. There's no way someone wouldn't want Mike Portnoy in their band, even if he has a bit of a reputation as a band-starter, because you can do so much worse in a metal band (google The Faceless or Nachmystium). The "problem" is that not a lot of professional musicians around his age interested in his kind of music will be taking breaks from their bands or leave them entirely for long enough to make a project and make it really stick as a full time gig. The best case scenario for him if he wanted a full time gig would be if another previously occupied musician of his caliber were to find himself bandless, and they jammed together and clicked and formed a band with a few slightly lesser known people. Otherwise I can see him getting joining an established band, but that would be Jeff-Loomis-joins-Arch-Enemy type of situation, no matter what band it would be.

[MirrorMask]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story),

Well, for starters, I would phrase it by saying that he left the band, since he wasn't fired.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story),

Well, for starters, I would phrase it by saying that he left the band, since he wasn't fired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_8E3FOU4s

[Adami]

He's got nowhere else to go though. Could you imagine him starting another band and trying to gain any momentum knowing that TWD, SoA, and AM were all ended prematurely? He's got to know that SoA is basically his last resort and the only thing he could do otherwise is join a band that already has a pre-existing audience like he did with A7X.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story), but there are several more stories going on here that I thought I'd try to take a crack at.

For one, Mike is also a person with an inbuilt fanbase, he's a highly acclaimed drummer, with a fantastic business sense. There's no way someone wouldn't want Mike Portnoy in their band, even if he has a bit of a reputation as a band-starter, because you can do so much worse in a metal band (google The Faceless or Nachmystium). The "problem" is that not a lot of professional musicians around his age interested in his kind of music will be taking breaks from their bands or leave them entirely for long enough to make a project and make it really stick as a full time gig. The best case scenario for him if he wanted a full time gig would be if another previously occupied musician of his caliber were to find himself bandless, and they jammed together and clicked and formed a band with a few slightly lesser known people. Otherwise I can see him getting joining an established band, but that would be Jeff-Loomis-joins-Arch-Enemy type of situation, no matter what band it would be.

Well, MirrorMask covered one important point. But your point that no band wouldn't want Portnoy, I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services. And those are just the public ones. Most bands (and this pains me to say as a drummer, myself) want a drummer who will sit back and be a drummer. Portnoy (and I identify with this too) is not JUST a drummer. So a lot of bands won't want to take all that on.

[MoraWintersoul]

But your point that no band wouldn't want Portnoy, I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services.

I meant in the sense of starting a new band. I don't know how many already established bands would consider taking him on because there are existing dynamics, in new bands dynamics are what you make of them. Times are rough in the music industry, you need to assemble bands with maximum possible inbuilt fandom and cred as you possibly can, promote them non stop, have connections in the industry and know the best possible producers, promoters etc if you want to get your name out there. To have a drummer who can do all that is a big plus.

[mikeyd23]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story),

Well, for starters, I would phrase it by saying that he left the band, since he wasn't fired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_8E3FOU4s

I was hoping it was Lars. And it was. 

[MirrorMask]

I knew it was that even before opening the link 

[bosk1]

I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services

Do tell, please.  I would like to know who they are.  I am assuming one that you are referring to as A7X.  But "declined his services" is not really accurate, at least in the context we are discussing.  And I have no idea who the other one is that you are referring to.

[Grappler]

To be fair, Mike was "just a drummer" when he toured with Twisted Sister and certainly stated that in interviews, confirming that he wasn't there to do anything else but help out the band in a time of need.

So he's fully capable of doing what he is asked to do, if needed. 

[TAC]

I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services

Do tell, please.  I would like to know who they are.  I am assuming one that you are referring to as A7X.  But "declined his services" is not really accurate, at least in the context we are discussing.  And I have no idea who the other one is that you are referring to.

Maybe he's thinking Dream Theater, since MP did offer to come back after they hired Mangini.

[Adami]

I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services

Do tell, please.  I would like to know who they are.  I am assuming one that you are referring to as A7X.  But "declined his services" is not really accurate, at least in the context we are discussing.  And I have no idea who the other one is that you are referring to.

Yes, A7X and also Dream Theater after he tried to come back. You can disagree with my wording, but the general sentiment makes sense. They each had very different reasons, which is fine, but they both still declined the chance to have him in the band full time. The specifics aren't terribly important since my response was to the idea that no band would not want Portnoy. Mora has since clarified her point though, which my response didn't apply to.

[bosk1]

Well, yeah, a band that "declines his services" because there isn't currently an opening is different than a band with an opening taking a pass.  "Declined his services" implies the latter.

[Adami]

Well, yeah, a band that "declines his services" because there isn't currently an opening is different than a band with an opening taking a pass.  "Declined his services" implies the latter.

I did not imply the latter, but I understand the point. Overall, it's not a major point (mine, not yours). It was part of a larger theme that not every band would want Portnoy specifically to join them.

[Stadler]

20 years on, and I'm still not comfortable with the pat, concise, "He wasn't fired, he quit" summary.  It was (and in my mind, still is) far more complex than that.   It's like saying "my marriage ended because my wife cheated".  Yeah, that was a significant part, but it's FAR more complex than that, and only the ex and I know what really happened, including the dynamics, the emotions, the back-and-forth, etc.   

[Adami]

20 years on, and I'm still not comfortable with the pat, concise, "He wasn't fired, he quit" summary.  It was (and in my mind, still is) far more complex than that.   It's like saying "my marriage ended because my wife cheated".  Yeah, that was a significant part, but it's FAR more complex than that, and only the ex and I know what really happened, including the dynamics, the emotions, the back-and-forth, etc.

No, it'd be more like saying "My marriage ended because my wife filed for divorce." The whole "he quit" doesn't get into reasons or back story. It's just the action. He did, in fact, quit. That is hard to disagree with. If you're uncomfortable with the implications, that's fine, but he did.....quit.

[ErHaO]

20 years on, and I'm still not comfortable with the pat, concise, "He wasn't fired, he quit" summary.  It was (and in my mind, still is) far more complex than that.   It's like saying "my marriage ended because my wife cheated".  Yeah, that was a significant part, but it's FAR more complex than that, and only the ex and I know what really happened, including the dynamics, the emotions, the back-and-forth, etc.

No, it'd be more like saying "My marriage ended because my wife filed for divorce." The whole "he quit" doesn't get into reasons or back story. It's just the action. He did, in fact, quit. That is hard to disagree with. If you're uncomfortable with the implications, that's fine, but he did.....quit.

I agree, that he quit is a fact, it is what happened. But what led to that event can be a long series of events/a lot of factors. And only the people involved really know the extent of that.

[bosk1]

Yes.  But Stadler's point is simply that, although "he quit" is technically true, it is also misleading because it is only part of a much more nuanced picture.  From what we do know from what was publicly release by both sides, a more accurate statement would be something along the lines of, "Portnoy and the band reached an impasse about the direction of the band.  Portnoy felt as though the situation essentially confronted him with an ultimatum:  either continuing in a direction he felt was counterproductive to the band and himself, or leaving the band.  So he reluctantly chose to leave the band." 

On the flip side, while more accurate, that is too wordy for most conversations, especially where the participants in the conversation already know (or should know) what happened.  But it just depends on context.  For those that know the scoop, I guess "he quit" is fine, even though it still feels like a unfair dig at Portnoy by omitting key facts and implying a completely one-sided decision. 

[Architeuthis]

Kind of like a "Stalemate".. 

[Stadler]

"He quit" is kind of like saying "Stephanie Clifford breached her contract." 

[MirrorMask]

Derek Sherinian was fired. "Listen Derek, you're cool and all, but we have a prog boner for Jordan Rudess. Sorry, you're out". He didn't have a choice.

Mike had a choice: suck it up, accept that all of his bandmembers did not want to take a break, and convince himself that it was ok to go on immediately into another album / tour cycle. As far as what has been released to the public goes, I don't think anybody told him "We don't want to work with you anymore no matter what". Sure, I understand that he was in a tough place and he was between the hammer and the anvil - be unhappy in his band, or happy out of his band - , but he did have a choice that Derek didn't.

[SwedishGoose]

Exactly that.... he choose to leave he was not fired or forced to leave. He did have a disagreement with the other four members of the band over taking a hiatus (at first he wanted an undefined hiatus, then he changed that to five years). I see no reason why the others should have agreed to that.
His leaving the band rests solely on his shoulders, in my humble opinion.

[Adami]

"He quit" is kind of like saying "Stephanie Clifford breached her contract."

Damn you for making me google who that is!

[Stadler]

"He quit" is kind of like saying "Stephanie Clifford breached her contract."

Damn you for making me google who that is!

"Stormy Daniels" is the worst porn name ever.   Well, maybe not the worst - Syphilia Schenker would be worse - but it's not good.  I refuse to use it. 

[Adami]

Headline: Stadler compares MP to a porn star, and DT (Dream Theater) to DT (Donald Trump)

[Nachtmerrie]

In the end they have to decide whether it's a real band or just another project, especially MP I guess.
I would love to Bumblefoot and JSS continue. BS en MP are replaceable IMHO, don't know about DS.

Maybe, but who in their right mind would want to replace MP on drums, or BS on bass?  I guess the only reason would be that they are spread too thin with other projects. I think the band would suffer without MP as he has good compositional skills and is very creative..

DT found someone to replace MP so why  not SOA. I don't think SOA would suffer that much. He's taken more of a backseat live because JSS and BF are the main focus. In terms of compositional skills I think BF & DS are the main writers but may be wrong with that.

In the end I think this band suffers more if they wait too long before releasing a new album and continue touring to build their name.
As much as I like Mike Portnoy I would say he is replaceable.

Wouldn't it be be better for him to choose his main priorities instead of doing all this bands and projects.

For example: commit fully to SOA and NMB and do the occasional side project with Neal Morse like Flying Colors or Transatlantic or commit fully to one band (SOA or NMB) and do all the projects you want.

By not making a choice it feels likes he's holding back both SOA and NMB.

[Anxiety35]

8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.

Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.

Also, I don't think for a minute that MP wants to "one up" DT or anything like that. I don't believe his mission is to prove DT wrong just as I don't believe DT's mission is to prove MP wrong.

I think SOA should be quick to release a sophomore effort. Not rush it, but don't wait 5 years either. I think after the touring and spending more time together they could gel and come up with some good stuff for a second release. It's easy to throw 5 musicians in a room and say, "come up with some songs" but band chemistry matters. Therefore, a follow up may surprise us in a good way.

[pg1067]

20 years on, and I'm still not comfortable with the pat, concise, "He wasn't fired, he quit" summary. . . .

20 years???

Mike had a choice: suck it up, accept that all of his bandmembers did not want to take a break, and convince himself that it was ok to go on immediately into another album / tour cycle. As far as what has been released to the public goes, I don't think anybody told him "We don't want to work with you anymore no matter what". Sure, I understand that he was in a tough place and he was between the hammer and the anvil - be unhappy in his band, or happy out of his band - , but he did have a choice that Derek didn't.

Yup.

Also, I don't think for a minute that MP wants to "one up" DT or anything like that. I don't believe his mission is to prove DT wrong just as I don't believe DT's mission is to prove MP wrong.

Not really directing this question at you (esp. since you're saying that this isn't what's happening), but what is there to prove anyone "wrong" about?  Mike wanted a break.  DT didn't.  Those aren't things that can be "right" or "wrong."  The only thing that anyone could have been "wrong" about is whether DT would have been better off if MP had gotten his way.  Needless to say, that's (a) subjective and (b) unprovable.

[Dublagent66]

Just bumped my vote up to 9.  I think the only thing that keeps it from being a 10 is Figaro's Whore.  Not that it's a bad thing.  Just wish they would've made that a full length song.

[Madman Shepherd]

8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.

Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.

Honestly I think he thought Adrenaline Mob could be it.  When I first heard them I thought, yeah this sounds pretty radio friendly.  I could see sports using AM songs for promos and whatever.  I think even his wife posted on his old message board that AM has the most potential to be really big. 

Granted, I know nothing about that type of music.  Is Disturbed still selling well?  Doing big tours?  I honestly don't know.  I don't pay much attention to them but I haven't heard a whole lot about them lately so maybe that style of music is not too popular anymore.  At one point it was but they missed the boat on that one.