Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Adami]

Maybe they should wait to do a huge DVD with an orchestra until it makes sense and isn't mostly cover songs? They could have simply NOT done this. It's also not even a little representative of their tour since they were mostly playing clubs. Release a club DVD. Don't BS this one just to do it.

[Stadler]

Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

And as somebody already mentioned, they already have a main job playing for orchestras or ensembles, so it's not like they have a lot of free time to learn something new. My wife is a professional musician, she plays in an orchestra (she plays flute) and I've seen how this works most of the times. She played in a Queen tribute concert a few months back and she was given the sheet music the morning of day of the show, she was called as a substitute for another orchestra. So, they're skilled and usually can play the songs without hearing them, just one read and that's it. But there's so much more involved, they need to rehearse with the director and since most of them are pretty busy with their main jobs, they usually only have time to rehearse once or twice.

Also keep in mind than most of them have to learn a concert worth of new pieces every week for the orchestra concerts. And those piece are usually hard!

That last part is the single hardest thing for me being a musician.  While Mumming, we had to know the final routine (about a five minute piece, but there was a lot of choreography) and I'm deeply embarrassed to admit that I had to learn three final routines and never was able to play the whole thing all the way through without accompaniment.   It wasn't technique, it was "memory".   I honestly don't know how a Bob Weir or a Mike Portnoy do it.   

[cramx3]

Maybe they should wait to do a huge DVD with an orchestra until it makes sense and isn't mostly cover songs? They could have simply NOT done this. It's also not even a little representative of their tour since they were mostly playing clubs. Release a club DVD. Don't BS this one just to do it.

My guess is the cost to do what you suggest (and do it right, not a shit video) vs this much more grandiose concert were probably not that far off.  Devin said this was within his super cheap budget to do and SOA followed the script he put out last year for performing this type of show.  Still doesn't answer the "why" but the only answer I can think of is $

[Elite]

Sure. For me, I'm let down. That's all. It just feels very insincere. Like they're trying to rush something that would otherwise take years to develop. This isn't the only aspect of this, but just the latest one. Everything about SoA feels like they're rushing everything and not taking necessary time.

You’re not getting ‘8 mediocre releases’. It’s one live release that contains ALL material the band has ever put out, as well as a cool selection of cover songs played by everybody’s new favourite Mike Portnoy side-project with an orchestra.

This is what I feel as well. I'd prefer one quality release over 8 mediocre ones.

[bosk1]

Maybe they should wait to do a huge DVD with an orchestra until it makes sense and isn't mostly cover songs? They could have simply NOT done this. It's also not even a little representative of their tour since they were mostly playing clubs. Release a club DVD. Don't BS this one just to do it.

I honestly don't get that perspective at all.  I'm not sure how this doesn't "make sense," or how it somehow needs to be representative of their tour.  I've seen plenty of DVDs through the years that were representative of the tours they came from, and plenty that were not.  Neither end of the spectrum really had any impact on the enjoyability or quality of the DVD that I could discern. 

[Adami]

Maybe they should wait to do a huge DVD with an orchestra until it makes sense and isn't mostly cover songs? They could have simply NOT done this. It's also not even a little representative of their tour since they were mostly playing clubs. Release a club DVD. Don't BS this one just to do it.

I honestly don't get that perspective at all.  I'm not sure how this doesn't "make sense," or how it somehow needs to be representative of their tour.  I've seen plenty of DVDs through the years that were representative of the tours they came from, and plenty that were not.  Neither end of the spectrum really had any impact on the enjoyability or quality of the DVD that I could discern.

I never said it needed to be. I just pointed out that it wasn't.

For instance, let's look at Within Temptation. Their DVD's are (or were) huge events. Orchestras, stage shows, choirs etc. Obviously not representative of their tour. But it WAS representative of what the band was. The band was always symphonic and huge and theatrical. Or let's look at Metallica. Obviously S&M was completely out of left field from everything else they had done. And for them, that was the point. Years and years and years as one thing, they were expanding on that. But they needed that huge history for it to make sense.

But SoA? They're one of MPS's many many projects. I know you liked the album a lot and so did plenty of others, but it seems like the album was not widely received as being great or amazing, seems most people thought it was "okay". The band has barely been around very long. The music is not huge and epic and theatrical. It's good hard rock music. So the idea of doing a whole show at a huge ampitheater and having an orchestra and choir back you up for two of your songs and then a bunch of jukebox rock songs seems odd.

You can disagree with me, that's totally cool. I'm merely expressing my opinion. But I have some thought process behind it. It's possible to disagree with me without completely not understanding why I could have possibly thought what I do. You know? We can just disagree. It's all cool. I don't want anyone to like this any less than they do. I wish I was more excited. I wish I liked it more. I just don't.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that, even though I don't understand the need for this DVD to be the way it is, I completely understand people's excitement and (hopeful) enjoyment of it when it comes out. I am happy people are excited. I like when people like things. This seems like a pretty cool thing to be excited about, even if it doesn't connect with me.

[bosk1]

And I get that you don't like it.  But I don't get that you find it not making sense.  I don't even know what "making sense" is supposed to mean in this context, your explanation notwithstanding.  And that isn't a slam.  I just don't get it.  Not because we disagree, but simply because I just don't get pretty much any position implying that there are a set of established "rules" for how one must enjoy their music.

[Adami]

And I get that you don't like it.  But I don't get that you find it not making sense.  I don't even know what "making sense" is supposed to mean in this context, your explanation notwithstanding.  And that isn't a slam.  I just don't get it.  Not because we disagree, but simply because I just don't get pretty much any position implying that there are a set of established "rules" for how one must enjoy their music.

Oh totally. And I'm sorry if I made it seem like that was my complaint. There are definitely no established set of rules, but for me personally, I like it to feel like a logical choice. This, to me personally, does not feel like a logical choice as part of the natural development. It feels like "I want to do this....and I'll do it with this band." I think doing a show with an orchestra would have made more "sense" with Flying Colors, or one of his Neil Morse projects. Or maybe at a time when they have 2-3 albums and could do a full DVD of original material and have the orchestra back that up, you know? I dunno. It's just my perspective. I don't see the logic. Not that it has to follow a SPECIFIC logic, but it doesn't seem to follow any kind of logic. I can see it following a thought process, for sure, but not one I'd consider logical. But that's just me.


Also, I am not at ALL saying anything about people enjoying their music. In fact, I said I am glad they do. I was talking about the decision making process for the band and arriving on this DVD as the the thing to do. People can enjoy whatever they enjoy and more power to them. I enjoy a ton of things that people think make no sense.

[bosk1]

And I'll just reiterate that you are one of my favorite people on this forum, so if my post implied a tone that may have indicated otherwise, that wasn't my intent.

[Adami]

And I'll just reiterate that you are one of my favorite people on this forum, so if my post implied a tone that may have indicated otherwise, that wasn't my intent.

Nah. I also don't want to write my psychotherapy notes and this is more fun haha.

[bosk1]

You pretty much just described most of my days/post-count. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I wonder if rehearsal time also plays a part. Anathema played their entire set with the orchestra, so I wonder if they rehearsed with them before the show, or the conductor likes their music that much.

Once SOA announced they were doing this gig with an orchestra, my first reaction was...Why? Doesn't seem the right time, or reason to do it. Was it just the novelty of playing with an orchestra?

[Grappler]

Maybe the entire idea was the promoter's? 

"Hey Mike, I love the new Sons of Apollo record.  Devin Townsend just did a big DVD concert here and we'd like to give you the same opportunity.  I can get you an ancient historic venue, an orchestra and the recording equipment.  Are you interested?"

Nobody would pass that up if a promoter handed it to you on a platter. 

[ProfessorPeart]

Maybe the entire idea was the promoter's? 

"Hey Mike, I love the new Sons of Apollo record.  Devin Townsend just did a big DVD concert here and we'd like to give you the same opportunity.  I can get you an ancient historic venue, an orchestra and the recording equipment.  Are you interested?"

Nobody would pass that up if a promoter handed it to you on a platter.

Interesting point. That venue seems to be building a reputation for metal/orchestra concerts. Devin, Katatonia, Opeth, Sons, etc. have all done it there in recent years.

[Adami]

Maybe the entire idea was the promoter's? 

"Hey Mike, I love the new Sons of Apollo record.  Devin Townsend just did a big DVD concert here and we'd like to give you the same opportunity.  I can get you an ancient historic venue, an orchestra and the recording equipment.  Are you interested?"

Nobody would pass that up if a promoter handed it to you on a platter.

Maybe. We have no idea. Seems like going from Devin Townsend to Sons of Apollo is an odd leap, but who knows? Maybe LaBrie e-mailed Portnoy and said

"Hey hoser! I think the new Sons of Apollo is wicked terrible eh? We did that awesome DVD with an orchestra and a choir. CAN YOU TOP IT?!??! Maple syrup."

Who knows?

[Skeever]

Gotta wonder what it's like being the kind of person who goes to a concert to see a band with one album and gets mad they dipped into covers so they could give you a longer show

[SwedishGoose]

Opeths concert there was all originals

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/opeth/2015/roman-amphitheatre-plovdiv-bulgaria-2bf48c92.html

Unfortunately it was not released on BluRay or even on CD. Just a couple of bonus songs on Sorceress and a cover CD on Prog Magazine.
Would have loved to have that on BR....

This one will not get through my door..... lukewarm on the album and not excited about the covers. Yeah, I also think they should have waited.

[ErHaO]

I don't really get the problem with playing covers, or with an orchestra this early for that matter. The generally accepted purpose of a concert is to entertain, no? They marketed this concert rather clearly as being their first album plus a series of rock classics.

When I go to classical concerts, musicals, or concerts like, say Night of the Proms, I usually end up seeing a group of (gifted) people who weren't involved in the original recordings of the music, but nobody there cares. Here, we have a group of great musicians with long careers in the rock/metal/prog genres performing some of the greatest classics. I just don't get some of the more overly critical or even lamenting comments (on social media especially). I do get people voicing their preferences, offcourse.


Furthermore, from what I can tell they did Gates of Babylon justice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI1YFyaTaac With artists like Dio long gone, I actually really like seeing stuff like this.

[Madman Shepherd]

Holy crap, Soto nailed that. 

[ChuckSteak]

How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

If they had released a live EP as bonus tracks (or bonus CD) for the second studio album, that would be totally ok. And I completely understand people getting disappointed when they decided to play cover with the orchestra. Who the hell wants to see covers? Don't even release them, unless you can make it better than the original or very interesting in a different way.

[ChuckSteak]

Opeths concert there was all originals

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/opeth/2015/roman-amphitheatre-plovdiv-bulgaria-2bf48c92.html

Unfortunately it was not released on BluRay or even on CD. Just a couple of bonus songs on Sorceress and a cover CD on Prog Magazine.
Would have loved to have that on BR....

This one will not get through my door..... lukewarm on the album and not excited about the covers. Yeah, I also think they should have waited.

Opeth should have released that instead of the new album Live at the Red Cocks Amphiteatre

[gzarruk]

How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

That's the Portnoy way. FC has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (one for each tour). TWD has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (same case here). TA has more live albums than studio albums. NMB is releasing 2 live albums of the same tour this year. SOA is just following the same "MUST. RECORD. AND. RELEASE. EVERYTHING." mindset.

[Kocak]

How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

That's the Portnoy way. FC has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (one for each tour). TWD has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (same case here). TA has more live albums than studio albums. NMB is releasing 2 live albums of the same tour this year. SOA is just following the same "MUST. RECORD. AND. RELEASE. EVERYTHING." mindset.

The question remains: Is it necessary?

[Ravenfoul]

How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

That's the Portnoy way. FC has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (one for each tour). TWD has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (same case here). TA has more live albums than studio albums. NMB is releasing 2 live albums of the same tour this year. SOA is just following the same "MUST. RECORD. AND. RELEASE. EVERYTHING." mindset.

The question remains: Is it necessary?

For fans / people like Portnoy? Absolutely. I don't enjoy them as much as DT... but I sure as hell wish DT released basically as much as possible.

[Fritzinger]

But DT knows how to make themselves rare. With all the stuff MP is releasing, it feels like an inflation of his music...

[ReaperKK]

How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

That's the Portnoy way. FC has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (one for each tour). TWD has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (same case here). TA has more live albums than studio albums. NMB is releasing 2 live albums of the same tour this year. SOA is just following the same "MUST. RECORD. AND. RELEASE. EVERYTHING." mindset.

The question remains: Is it necessary?

For fans / people like Portnoy? Absolutely. I don't enjoy them as much as DT... but I sure as hell wish DT released basically as much as possible.

I think if MP wants to do it and there is profit in it, why not?

I'm not interested so I'm not buying but that doesn't mean there are other people who aren't interested in the show.

[Orbert]

Exactly.  If you don't like it or don't care, fine, don't buy it.  But if there are enough people who are into it to make it worthwhile for the band to release everything, why not?

[ErHaO]

How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it?

Well, Mike's other projects for one. Winery Dogs, Flying Colors, Transatlantic. Hell, the first Transatlantic live album, Live in America, is basically their first album and a series of covers/medleys. These products have been recieved well and presumably did well financially, so artists keep doing it. And I don't see the problem.

[Stadler]

Exactly.  If you don't like it or don't care, fine, don't buy it.  But if there are enough people who are into it to make it worthwhile for the band to release everything, why not?

+1

I have a hard time criticizing this, because there are bands that I WISH would release more stuff like this.   I buy all the FC and TA stuff, because I love it.  I don't buy all the Marillion live stuff, because, well, I don't.   But it's there if I want it. 

[The Walrus]

Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

[Stadler]

Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

Preach; that's how I feel about virtually every Zeppelin cover ever (and why Heart's version of Stairway at the Kennedy Center was so good).   99.5% of bands do NOT get the essence of Zeppelin, and resort to volume or thud, and that's not it (it's the tempo. It's all in the fluidity of the tempo).  But I know many people disagree with me, and so there you go.  They can TRY. 

[The Walrus]

Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

Preach; that's how I feel about virtually every Zeppelin cover ever (and why Heart's version of Stairway at the Kennedy Center was so good).   99.5% of bands do NOT get the essence of Zeppelin, and resort to volume or thud, and that's not it (it's the tempo. It's all in the fluidity of the tempo).  But I know many people disagree with me, and so there you go.  They can TRY.

FWIW, I totally agree with you there about Zeppelin too. The tempo matters so much.

[cramx3]

Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

Preach; that's how I feel about virtually every Zeppelin cover ever (and why Heart's version of Stairway at the Kennedy Center was so good).   99.5% of bands do NOT get the essence of Zeppelin, and resort to volume or thud, and that's not it (it's the tempo. It's all in the fluidity of the tempo).  But I know many people disagree with me, and so there you go.  They can TRY.

I actually love the Zeppelin medley and Since I've Been Loving You covers by Dream Theater.

Exactly.  If you don't like it or don't care, fine, don't buy it.  But if there are enough people who are into it to make it worthwhile for the band to release everything, why not?

Agreed.  I don't get the "but why" argument.  LIke sure it seems odd to do such a big production live album when you only have one album of original material, but if there's a market for it, who needs more of a reason?  I've said all along, it's about making money and they are going to make a few bucks off me.

[Indiscipline]

Unless they axe my front door down, deposit the cd on the table and force me to pay for it at gunpoint , I have no problem with artists releasing whatever the fock they please.

Covers I love, especially when they exude the coverer's own personal style. Not very interested in philological renditions. Then again, the "you the artist, you release whatever the fock you please" corollary still applies.

[Orbert]

Ann Wilson is amazing, and most Heart covers of Led Zeppelin songs are pretty great.  But as much as I'd love to love their cover of "Stairway to Heaven" from the Kennedy Center Honors broadcast, I can't, because for some reason they chose to cut out a verse or two.  I don't remember which or where, because I've never gone back and re-watched it, but I remember clearly singing along with it, and suddenly... WTF?  We're not there yet!

I get it, it's a long song.  So you cut it from 8 minutes to 7 1/2, which is basically negligible in this context, but destroy the integrity of the song?  Sorry, that's just wrong.  Excellent performance otherwise, but it's like hearing the edited version of a favorite song on the radio.  Someone decided it was okay to just cut this part out.  No, it is not okay.  If you're going to play the song, you play the song.  You don't just play most of it.

Actually, now that I think about it, the Heart version of "The Battle of Evermore" is also pretty unlistenable because they play it so damned slow.  Why?  It's not a hard song.  It doesn't gain any gravitas.  It's just too damned slow.  Their version of "Rock and Roll" is great, though.