Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[cramx3]

No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.

Bingo and Mike should know this and not engage with twitter trolls.

Honestly, makes me wonder if that guy was even legit in his hate or just a flat out troll who wasn't even there.  Either way, MP shouldn't engage one iota with these people because even if his point is correct and fair, it just always comes out looking bad in the end.

[Schurftkut]

It seems MP has problems brushing his teeth, he's posting the 3rd/4th time about needing urgent dentalcare on tour..

[bosk1]

...I am excited about the live presentation of the compelte SoA album in a live setting. The songs worked so much better in a live environment.

Yeah, having seen them on tour, I can say that pretty much every single song was really good in a live setting, with the exception of Opus Maximus, which legitimately bored me.  Even Figaro's (which I don't have a problem with on the album and don't understand why some people do) was a nice, short instrumental break to transition to the next song.  I was actually a bit surprised they didn't extend that one and turn it into a longer keyboard piece. 

As someone who enjoys the songs on the album, and enjoyed them even more live, I definitely plan to pick this up.  And I'm perfectly cool with the covers too.  Personally, I too would like to have seen a bit more material from the band members' past projects in place of some covers.  But that's not something I feel the need to dwell on either. 

As for Mike's extracurricular fan interaction...I don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said.  I'll just say:  sadly predictable.

[MarkFitDT]

No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.

Bingo and Mike should know this and not engage with twitter trolls.

Honestly, makes me wonder if that guy was even legit in his hate or just a flat out troll who wasn't even there.  Either way, MP shouldn't engage one iota with these people because even if his point is correct and fair, it just always comes out looking bad in the end.

Reading the guy's tweets I see no reason to believe that he wasnt there and just because he wasnt happy with the show does that make him a troll? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said but Mike should have just ignored the tweet and none of this would have happened but Mike seems to have issues not biting.

[cramx3]

No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.

Bingo and Mike should know this and not engage with twitter trolls.

Honestly, makes me wonder if that guy was even legit in his hate or just a flat out troll who wasn't even there.  Either way, MP shouldn't engage one iota with these people because even if his point is correct and fair, it just always comes out looking bad in the end.

Reading the guy's tweets I see no reason to believe that he wasnt there and just because he wasnt happy with the show does that make him a troll? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said but Mike should have just ignored the tweet and none of this would have happened but Mike seems to have issues not biting.

If the sole purpose of your tweet is to shit on someone/something, I feel like you are trolling.  I didn't read anything besides his original tweet to know if he was there, just seems odd to go to that show and not know you are going to get a bunch of covers.

[MarkFitDT]

No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.

Bingo and Mike should know this and not engage with twitter trolls.

Honestly, makes me wonder if that guy was even legit in his hate or just a flat out troll who wasn't even there.  Either way, MP shouldn't engage one iota with these people because even if his point is correct and fair, it just always comes out looking bad in the end.

Reading the guy's tweets I see no reason to believe that he wasnt there and just because he wasnt happy with the show does that make him a troll? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said but Mike should have just ignored the tweet and none of this would have happened but Mike seems to have issues not biting.

If the sole purpose of your tweet is to shit on someone/something, I feel like you are trolling.  I didn't read anything besides his original tweet to know if he was there, just seems odd to go to that show and not know you are going to get a bunch of covers.

Im not having a pop at you by the way and as I said I don't agree or disagree with what he tweeted but Ive seen a lot worse where people have baited people deliberately to get a reaction. It just read to me that he was disappointed and as I mentioned in a previous post he said it wasnt the fact that there were covers - he knew there were covers before the show - it was the choice of covers and that they only did one SOA with the orchestra. Songs that had been played with orchestras before by other bands. I think he mentioned that the second track SOA played in the encore was done without the orchestra as they had left the stage at that point - apologies if Ive got that wrong as I don't have the tweets in front of me. Having said all that I stand by my point that Mike should know better and have ignored it.

[Grappler]

This was the original tweet.  Sure, Mike can overdo it on social media and there is a more tactful way to respond, but I don't really mind him being a bit over this type of questioning and fan response - the show was advertised with a second set consisting of an orchestra and special cover songs.  Quite frankly, the band played the entire album live and an extended set beyond what they've been playing on tour.  What more can you ask for?

If they would have chosen to play some other material to represent JSS and Sheehan's careers instead of random cover songs, they could have avoided this kind of criticism.  I don't know why they avoid those songs, unless they want to generally say that this is a true BAND rather than one of Portnoy's projects, and they just play a few DT songs because of him and Derek being together again.

[bosk1]

Okay, yeah, that puts Portnoy's reaction in a COMPLETELY different light.  And while he still would be better served just letting things go and taking the high road, that guy was an idiot for thinking it would somehow be cool to come in and post that on MP's Twitter.

[gzarruk]

I agree that the guy wasn't very smart to tweet something like that, but the big problem here is that Mike can't act like a grown up and ignore this or something. Instead, he chooses to maximize the problem by calling him out on his social media and accusing him of deleting the tweet, calling him a coward. Grow up, Mike, just ignore the haters/trolls.

Imagine what would happen if James reacted like that every time someone posts on his social media that he can't sing anymore or that DT should get a new singer. Imagine if Mangini reacted like that every time people call him a "robot with no soul" or something similar. But they don't. No one here is saying that what this guy posted is correct, but MP really needs to calm down and think things through before replying to something like this.

[The Walrus]

Did the guy delete it or does Mike just think that because he blocked him? Lol...

[gzarruk]

Did the guy delete it or does Mike just think that because he blocked him? Lol...

Don't know if he's deleted it today, but yesterday Mike was all like "oh, this guy deleted his tweet, he's a coward, too good I got an screnshot of it" or something (paraphrasing), and the tweet was there, only that he couldn't see it because he had blocked him already. Some people replied pointing this, but he just ignored them.

[Stadler]

What would the point be of taking a screenshot of that tweet?  I might see it if you were going to have some fun with it and turn it around, but that's not what Mike does. 

[Kocak]

What would the point be of taking a screenshot of that tweet?  I might see it if you were going to have some fun with it and turn it around, but that's not what Mike does.

Because he wants people to agree with him.

[The Walrus]

Well, look at the comments on that tweet. It's all about validation from the #MPWarriors against the alleged #haters. It's why Marc 'No Filter Loki' came here to stir up shit (he was the guy who gave Mike that cymbal with every band he ever played with).

[cramx3]

What would the point be of taking a screenshot of that tweet?  I might see it if you were going to have some fun with it and turn it around, but that's not what Mike does.

I have a friend who screen shots lots of messages in our group chat because a certain person in our chat is known for saying absolutely ridiculous and often harsh things and then deletes them so this one friend always screenshots such messages so he can call him out later when he deletes them.  I wouldn't be surprised if MP has had enough trolls over the years who delete their tweets after being called out so he screenshots them to cover his ass for his call out.

[Stadler]

Well, look at the comments on that tweet. It's all about validation from the #MPWarriors against the alleged #haters. It's why Marc 'No Filter Loki' came here to stir up shit (he was the guy who gave Mike that cymbal with every band he ever played with).

By the way, not for nothing, but at the Worcester show there were two guys with T-Shirts with the logo of every band he played with on the back and they were acting a little sketch about them - "Oh, Mike approved it, but they're not for sale, we can't reproduce them, yadda yadda".  Go look at Mike's merch store.   

[Stadler]

What would the point be of taking a screenshot of that tweet?  I might see it if you were going to have some fun with it and turn it around, but that's not what Mike does.

I have a friend who screen shots lots of messages in our group chat because a certain person in our chat is known for saying absolutely ridiculous and often harsh things and then deletes them so this one friend always screenshots such messages so he can call him out later when he deletes them.  I wouldn't be surprised if MP has had enough trolls over the years who delete their tweets after being called out so he screenshots them to cover his ass for his call out.

You forget; I'm about a four year old in Tweet years.     You can delete tweets?   

[cramx3]

Of course you can, MP would look even worse claiming someone deleted a tweet if that wasn't even possible

[Stadler]

Of course you can, MP would look even worse claiming someone deleted a tweet if that wasn't even possible

It's telling that I did not rule out that possibility.     

[bosk1]

By the way, not for nothing, but at the Worcester show there were two guys with T-Shirts with the logo of every band he played with on the back and they were acting a little sketch about them - "Oh, Mike approved it, but they're not for sale, we can't reproduce them, yadda yadda".  Go look at Mike's merch store.   

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this. 

[Stadler]

By the way, not for nothing, but at the Worcester show there were two guys with T-Shirts with the logo of every band he played with on the back and they were acting a little sketch about them - "Oh, Mike approved it, but they're not for sale, we can't reproduce them, yadda yadda".  Go look at Mike's merch store.   

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this. 

It's a complete non sequitor.  KTLX noted the cymbal with all the bands on it, and it dawned on me that I meant to post this and forgot.   I just remember the guys being pretty defensive about these shirts (which were admittedly pretty cool) but now they're for sale by Mike himself.  I find it interesting.   

[The Walrus]

I think those shirts literally had to be custom made and ordered or something. "Loki" handled it at first IIRC or something like that

[bosk1]

By the way, not for nothing, but at the Worcester show there were two guys with T-Shirts with the logo of every band he played with on the back and they were acting a little sketch about them - "Oh, Mike approved it, but they're not for sale, we can't reproduce them, yadda yadda".  Go look at Mike's merch store.   

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this. 

It's a complete non sequitor.  KTLX noted the cymbal with all the bands on it, and it dawned on me that I meant to post this and forgot.   I just remember the guys being pretty defensive about these shirts (which were admittedly pretty cool) but now they're for sale by Mike himself.  I find it interesting.   

Oh, Mike actually IS selling them?  I missed that detail, so it didn't make sense to me.

Not sure how long making one's own custom band shirts has been a thing.  I've done it for DT as far as the forum shirts.  They aren't official, but the band more or less approved after the fact (JP and Maddi asked for me to make them one). 

[Madman Shepherd]

I'm pretty much Team Mike, having stuck up for him during the whole Derek Whine-and-Cheese tasting leading up to the album release, but one recent thing cheesed me off:   He blocked someone, and some girl - legitimately - said (I'm paraphrasing) "Mike, its not unreasonable to objectively provide criticism.  Its not really cool to block someone just because they criticized you." and he replied "That guy wasn't just giving criticism, he was making it personal, and so he's blocked.  Like you.  Buh-BYE! #Blocked."   

She literally asked him a question about taking constructive criticism, and he said it was personal and blocked her.

Yeah that's pretty crappy of him, but do you not expect that?  It's not like his past behavior is too off the mark from that. 

[Dave_Manchester]

About the cover songs they played - I once dated a girl who plays viola for an orchestra in Moscow that does this kind of thing. They moonlight as a backing orchestra for visiting rock bands. The bands can't ask them to play any song, because it isn't practical. All the members of the orchestra have very busy schedules playing 'proper' classical music as their day job, some also have 2nd jobs in string quartets or piano trios or whatever. This rock band gig is just a part-time job that pays comparatively well. They don't have time to figure out and then learn an arrangement of some obscure Gentle Giant b-side or whatever. Bands can only select from a kind of 'menu' of songs which require no learning because they've been played dozens of times before. Big hits like Queen and Zeppelin and so on. For a bit extra they will learn maybe 1 or 2 others, but in general you have to choose from the big famous numbers. If you want an entirely unique setlist it costs a lot of money; money that I don't imagine SoA's label are prepared to spend yet. 

I don't know if that Bulgarian orchestra has a similar kind of deal, but it's possible they do, and that may be the reason MP didn't break out the deep cuts from the band members. It also may have been a decision based on the occasion. YT videos suggest the crowd was really into the covers, singing along to the words. How likely is it rare tracks from Bumblefoot's or Jeff's past catalogues would have got the same reaction?

[cramx3]

About the cover songs they played - I once dated a girl who plays viola for an orchestra in Moscow that does this kind of thing. They moonlight as a backing orchestra for visiting rock bands. The bands can't ask them to play any song, because it isn't practical. All the members of the orchestra have very busy schedules playing 'proper' classical music as their day job, some also have 2nd jobs in string quartets or piano trios or whatever. This rock band gig is just a lucrative part-time job that pays comparatively well. They don't have time to figure out and then learn an arrangement of some obscure Gentle Giant b-side or whatever. Bands can only select from a kind of 'menu' of songs which require no learning because they've been played dozens of times before. Big hits like Queen and Zeppelin and so on. For a bit extra they will learn maybe 1 or 2 others, but in general you have to choose from the big famous numbers. If you want an entirely unique setlist it costs a lot of money; money that I don't imagine SoA's label are prepared to spend yet. 

I don't know if that Bulgarian orchestra have a similar kind of deal, but it's possible they do, and that may be the reason MP didn't break out the deep cuts from the band members. It also may have been a decision based on the occasion. YT videos suggest the crowd was really into the covers, singing along to the words. How likely is it rare tracks from Bumblefoot's or Jeff's past catalogues would have got the same reaction?

So Devin Townsend did the same type of concert last year.  He released the blu-ray a few months ago of two sets, one of the band with the orchestra/choir and the second set was just the band.  There was a bonus video with Devin about the "making of" essentially.  Devin doesn't hold back and says how it is and it's pretty similar to what you said.  For one, to do such a show, he needed a place that can do it cheaply.  Bulgaria fits that part, and I assume the cheapness per "epicness" lets call it is pretty good for this type of venue/show/taping when you consider the venue and the orchestra/choir plus the ability to film it.  The orchestra also had a lot of input on the songs they played.  Devin said he was not allowed to just tell them what to play, it had to be a compromise and that's why his "by request setlist" wasn't truly by request, the orchestra had a say in the choice of songs.  Not only that, they also had a strong say in the interpretation of the music.  Devin said he wasn't really comfortable with how he couldn't tell them what to do, but he did have some say, but like the setlist, it was a compromise. 

I can only imagine it's the same with SOA.

[MirrorMask]

Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

[Adami]

YT videos suggest the crowd was really into the covers, singing along to the words. How likely is it rare tracks from Bumblefoot's or Jeff's past catalogues would have got the same reaction?

Well yes, obviously big famous songs will always get more of that kind of reaction. By that logic, they should have only played big rock hits from the past. The crowd would have gone nuts. That's why cover bands get so much attention in places like Vegas.

[Dave_Manchester]

YT videos suggest the crowd was really into the covers, singing along to the words. How likely is it rare tracks from Bumblefoot's or Jeff's past catalogues would have got the same reaction?

Well yes, obviously big famous songs will always get more of that kind of reaction. By that logic, they should have only played big rock hits from the past.

No they shouldn't because the reaction to the band's own songs was even bigger.

My point was that if for practical reasons you have to play some cover songs to flesh out your show of otherwise original music, it's probably a wiser decision to play a well-known song than a relatively unknown one.

[Stadler]

Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

Well, bearing in mind that most of us were not world class musicians (though some were; one guy even played with Brandon Marsalis), when I played in a string band in Philly - about 60 musicians, sax, bass sax, banjo, bass, drums, couple other brass instruments - there were really two parts to this:  one was playing the score, and most of us could do exactly that.   But there are things like tempo and volume that you can only go so far in terms of putting it on paper.  My band had NO amplified instruments and the drums were basically a snare and a bass drum (like you'd see in a marching band) and so having that electric component with SoA, I can see that rehearsal is important.   Then you factor in that there's a conductor/director, and so as you move through there will undoubtedly be things that he/she hears in his/her (I'm not going to keep doing this; you get it) head that he doesn't hear in his ears, and so makes a tweak. 

No one mentioned it, but there are camera and recording considerations as well, I would imagine. 

[Adami]

Sure. For me, I'm let down. That's all. It just feels very insincere. Like they're trying to rush something that would otherwise take years to develop. This isn't the only aspect of this, but just the latest one. Everything about SoA feels like they're rushing everything and not taking necessary time.

[Dave_Manchester]

Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

The orchestral arrangement isn't in the score though. That has to be created by someone else (the conductor usually, or sometimes one of the players). It reportedly took Michael Kaymen months to compose the orchestral parts for Metallica's S&M concert. It's not a simple task at all, especially for songs that are complex to begin with.

[cramx3]

Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

The orchestral arrangement isn't in the score though. That has to be created by someone else (the conductor usually, or sometimes one of the players). It reportedly took Michael Kaymen months to compose the orchestral parts for Metallica's S&M concert. It's not a simple task at all, especially for songs that are complex to begin with.

And definitely going to be easier for the cover songs vs. the original SOA songs.

[nattmorker]

Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

And as somebody already mentioned, they already have a main job playing for orchestras or ensembles, so it's not like they have a lot of free time to learn something new. My wife is a professional musician, she plays in an orchestra (she plays flute) and I've seen how this works most of the times. She played in a Queen tribute concert a few months back and she was given the sheet music the morning of day of the show, she was called as a substitute for another orchestra. So, they're skilled and usually can play the songs without hearing them, just one read and that's it. But there's so much more involved, they need to rehearse with the director and since most of them are pretty busy with their main jobs, they usually only have time to rehearse once or twice.

Also keep in mind than most of them have to learn a concert worth of new pieces every week for the orchestra concerts. And those piece are usually hard!

[Kocak]

Sure. For me, I'm let down. That's all. It just feels very insincere. Like they're trying to rush something that would otherwise take years to develop. This isn't the only aspect of this, but just the latest one. Everything about SoA feels like they're rushing everything and not taking necessary time.

This is what I feel as well. I'd prefer one quality release over 8 mediocre ones.