Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Orbert]

Ah, I missed that.  Pretty good job there! 

[mikeyd23]

Totally had me fooled, kinda sad I thought for a minute that was real.

[Madman Shepherd]

That's the thing about satire.  If it's good, it is sometimes difficult to discern the truthiness. 

He *has* essentially said those things in tweets before, ya know, passive aggressive statements about having over a millions fans and his shock that they don't all like SoA.

Errr, should I say "fans"

 

[Orbert]

Mike may have over a million fans, actually I'm sure he does, but that doesn't translate to Sons of Apollo having a million fans.  Mike's delusional if he thinks that every fan of his will automatically like everything he does, every project, every video, etc.  I don't see how he doesn't get that.

[Nekov]

Mike may have over a million fans, actually I'm sure he does, but that doesn't translate to Sons of Apollo having a million fans.  Mike's delusional if he thinks that every fan of his will automatically like everything he does, every project, every video, etc.  I don't see how he doesn't get that.

Probably because there are a lot of die hard fans out there that do support anything he does and thik it's good because Mike's in it. And we all know Mike loves to live in that little echo chamber that only says good things about him...

[MirrorMask]

Totally had me fooled, kinda sad I thought for a minute that was real.

Me too, I went to check his FB page before realizing the small print.

[Aythesryche]

So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.

[Tick]

So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.

To me it comes down to the album lacking creativity and feeling like pumped out fast food. There are too many artists working hard to make blow away awesome albums, so this falls into an expendable sea of average for me. 4 out of 10.
None of my opinions are based on any drama level of certain members of the band. If the album was awesome, I can overlook a lot.

[gzarruk]

So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.

Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.

[Adami]

So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.

The amount of fans the drama has cost them is minuscule compared to the number of fans their legacies have brought them. Without their names and histories, they wouldn’t go anywhere. Sadly.

[cramx3]

They would just have to earn their fans the ole fashioned way, which is touring and performing live, constantly.  I have no doubt these guys would be solid live as they are professionals, but to get the 40k likes on facebook, they would need to be innovative and playing shows.  They haven't done either of those yet.   The certainly wouldn't be able to do a headline tour (even like their small NA tour that's coming up).  They would have to open for small bands and I think their level of playing would probably blow most small bands out of the water in a live setting.  But the amount of people seeing this would be small, they'd have to keep doing it and keep doing it to grow.  A strong follow up album would help as well.  Might be like Haken and take 10 years before they could do a NA headline tour.  The genre is just not very strong so that doesn't help, but I have no doubt that the talent of the people in this band would win fans over in a live setting compared to a smaller level band they would likely be opening for.

[Madman Shepherd]

Without the names this album would have had far fewer fans.  On the other hands, if this was a group of nobodies then people may be more excited.  Take me for instance, I like three of the songs and the rest are bland.  If this was a new group starting out I'd say, "Crap, they have a ton of potential!"  I may make a big effort to see them.  It'll probably be in a club that holds 200 people but that makes it more special.  Maybe their next album will be even better. 

As it stands they are a bunch of established musicians so the album was a let down.  I may go see them live but only because my friends are and its not on a work night. It may seem strange to have that double standard but a large part of a band's success is based around hype and this group doesn't quite live up to it. 

[ytserush]

So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.

If this was a random band I wouldn't have gotten past the first listen.  I only own it because of the track record. (Though I haven't listened to it in more than a month.)

[Stadler]

Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.

Not sure how I feel about this comparison.   I don't see them as being the same at all. 

[Stadler]

The amount of fans the drama has cost them is minuscule compared to the number of fans their legacies have brought them. Without their names and histories, they wouldn’t go anywhere. Sadly.

I think this is right.  There is just SO much out there, and at least I can't absorb it all.  I want to get into Greta Van Sustern, but I don't have time.  I have a couple Rival Sons CDs, saw them KILL IT opening for Sabbath, and yet... the standard is higher and there's just not enough room for average. 

[The Walrus]

The amount of fans the drama has cost them is minuscule compared to the number of fans their legacies have brought them. Without their names and histories, they wouldn’t go anywhere. Sadly.

I think this is right.  There is just SO much out there, and at least I can't absorb it all.  I want to get into Greta Van Sustern, but I don't have time.  I have a couple Rival Sons CDs, saw them KILL IT opening for Sabbath, and yet... the standard is higher and there's just not enough room for average.

Greta Van Fleet?

[bosk1]

Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.

Not sure how I feel about this comparison.   I don't see them as being the same at all. 

It's not the best comparison, but I get where gzarruk is coming from.  I think it is relevant as one of many examples that show a trend of him getting unjustifiably frustrated at the fans when fan response to his work does not meet his very high expectations for what said fan response "should" be. 

[Stadler]

The amount of fans the drama has cost them is minuscule compared to the number of fans their legacies have brought them. Without their names and histories, they wouldn’t go anywhere. Sadly.

I think this is right.  There is just SO much out there, and at least I can't absorb it all.  I want to get into Greta Van Sustern, but I don't have time.  I have a couple Rival Sons CDs, saw them KILL IT opening for Sabbath, and yet... the standard is higher and there's just not enough room for average.

Greta Van Fleet?

Yessir, but a reference to an aging TV talking head is funnier.

[The Walrus]

Yessir, but a reference to an aging TV talking head is funnier.

That's what I thought. But dude! They have like 8 songs. Stop listening to KISS for an hour and listen to them

[cramx3]

Yessir, but a reference to an aging TV talking head is funnier.

That's what I thought. But dude! They have like 8 songs. Stop listening to KISS for an hour and listen to them

Tried really hard to get tickets for them at the local small venue they are playing here, but the sales crashed the site and were gone in a few minutes.  I would have loved to check them out so early in their potentially huge career.  Their few songs are really cool.

[Orbert]

Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.

Not sure how I feel about this comparison.   I don't see them as being the same at all. 

It's not the best comparison, but I get where gzarruk is coming from.  I think it is relevant as one of many examples that show a trend of him getting unjustifiably frustrated at the fans when fan response to his work does not meet his very high expectations for what said fan response "should" be. 

I get it, too.  Mike is all "We are all awesome, and this is all of us, all together.  How can people not love it?  What the hell is wrong with people?"  When they literally went into a studio for a week, recorded some stuff, tossed it out there and called it an album.

[gzarruk]

Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.

Not sure how I feel about this comparison.   I don't see them as being the same at all. 

It's not the best comparison, but I get where gzarruk is coming from.  I think it is relevant as one of many examples that show a trend of him getting unjustifiably frustrated at the fans when fan response to his work does not meet his very high expectations for what said fan response "should" be. 

I get it, too.  Mike is all "We are all awesome, and this is all of us, all together.  How can people not love it?  What the hell is wrong with people?"  When they literally went into a studio for a week, recorded some stuff, tossed it out there and called it an album.

I could've said it better, but my point is that he expects every one of his fans to praise EVERYTHING he does (refering to albums/bands), only because they have MP's name on them. The way he sees it, if you aren't completely sold into whatever he just released, you aren't a real fan or you "just don't get it".

[SwedishGoose]

I could've said it better, but my point is that he expects every one of his fans to praise EVERYTHING he does (refering to albums/bands), only because they have MP's name on them. The way he sees it, if you aren't completely sold into whatever he just released, you aren't a real fan or you "just don't get it".

Yes that is how I think he thinks as well....

[cramx3]

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/richie-kotzen-says-now-would-have-been-the-perfect-time-for-the-winery-dogs-to-regroup/

According to Richie, it was his desire to return to recording albums and touring as a solo artist that caused THE WINERY DOGS to go on hiatus. "I wanted to go back to what I was doing my whole life, which is making my music and my records," he said. "Ideally, I would have thought now would have been the perfect time to be in a WINERY DOGS cycle. 'Cause last year I did my [solo] record. But they have a new band," referring to SONS OF APOLLO

Man do I wish we had more WD

[The Walrus]

God damn it.

[Anxiety35]

I think MP has oversaturated himself in the market. Instead of getting excited about a new release, we tend to think "Oh, another album with MP." I don't look forward to new MP related releases anymore.  I get that he likes to be involved with many projects and he's worked hard to get to that place where he can do that. It was cool when he was in DT and he had Transatlantic and Liquid Tension Experiment on the side. But he had a home base back then and those 2 projects were awesome. Now he's spread thin and the output hasn't been as good. In my opinion, the Winery Dogs has been the best thing he's done since leaving DT. Since MP doesn't have that home base anymore it seems like he's wandering aimlessly in the desert.

I grabbed the SOA release because I wanted to hear a Sherinian & MP record. I gave it a 7 on the poll but I'd scale it down to a 6 or 6.5 since. The record didn't blow me away and it hasn't stood the test of time for me. I don't like to say that but for me, it's true.

[El Barto]

I think MP has oversaturated himself in the market. Instead of getting excited about a new release, we tend to think "Oh, another album with MP." I don't look forward to new MP related releases anymore.  I get that he likes to be involved with many projects and he's worked hard to get to that place where he can do that. It was cool when he was in DT and he had Transatlantic and Liquid Tension Experiment on the side. But he had a home base back then and those 2 projects were awesome. Now he's spread thin and the output hasn't been as good. In my opinion, the Winery Dogs has been the best thing he's done since leaving DT. Since MP doesn't have that home base anymore it seems like he's wandering aimlessly in the desert.

I think this is spot on. Combine it with his belief that people will love anything he does, and his inability to recognize his flaws, and things aren't going to go the way he wants.

Regarding the hypothetical, there's no telling how it works out if they were all unknowns. I think there's a great deal of luck involved, so had they good label support they might be doing much better than they are now. That would get them an outside, proper producer. They'd get an opening slot with somebody worth a damn, and given their talent level and stagecraft could conceivably blow them right off the stage. They'd get a good sized tour in small venues, much like TWD. Most importantly they'd get a shot at a radio single. Simply a matter of whether or not they won the EMI Lottery. As it stands now their prior fame isn't helping them in that regard. In fact it's no doubt hurting them.

As for their style of music, I don't think it has a limited appeal at all. Most of it's pretty generic rock with plenty of stuff that could get radio play. It's not my bag, but it could certainly be sold to the masses. After all, this isn't Tales from Topgraphic Oceans or anything.

[bosk1]

I grabbed the SOA release because I wanted to hear a Sherinian & MP record. I gave it a 7 on the poll but I'd scale it down to a 6 or 6.5 since. The record didn't blow me away and it hasn't stood the test of time for me. I don't like to say that but for me, it's true.

Test of time?  Um...it's only been a few months. 

[bill1971]

After a few months I decided to give it another try yesterday because I thought my personal feelings with MP and DS were clouding the music. I honestly couldn't get through it. I still do enjoy Labyrinth but everything else seems uninspired and uninteresting to me. I am actually very glad many people here like it it and almost 40,000 people like it out in the world but it's not for me. I hope them success and I am sure the live show will be very good. They are extremely talented.

[The Walrus]

Sons of Apollo’s OPUS MAXIMUS has 4 of the craziest sections ever!!
Pt 1) The crazy “Bumbleteen Riff” in 6,6,7
Pt 2) Guitar Solo over 11,11,11,9,11,9,11,9
Pt 3) Bass Jam in 19/16 Groove
Pt 4) Keyboard Solo with 3 tiers of 10/4
In this video, Bumblefoot breaks down the “Bumbleteen Riff” 😵

I think this is why I just don't give a crap about chops anymore. This doesn't scream "awesome" or "good music" to me. It just reeks of making music more complicated than it needs to be, just for the sake of making it complicated. Sometimes just throwing in a single measure of 7/8 or 2/3 etc. in an otherwise standard song does more for the song than trying to change meters every other bar or squeezing in 16th run paradiddlyokilydokily phrygian dominant 19/35 half-time oh god I've gone cross-eyed

[cramx3]

I think I am the rare breed that enjoyed Opus Maximus and actually liked it more than most of the album. 

[devieira73]

Maybe my fave from album and the interesting thing is that it doesn’t sound like is the craziest instrumental song ever (MP compared it in complexity to tDoE on Facebook, which surprised me) which I guess is a sign of good musicality IMO.

[Kwyjibo]

For me it sounds exactly like a collection of crazy parts that really don't have any connection with each other. A disjointed wank-fest that does nothing for me.

[Cool Chris]

...and almost 40,000 people like it...

Assuming you are referring to facebook "likes" I think the value of saying someone likes something based on an internet thumbs up devalues the word a little bit. It's easy to click a button saying you "like" something. You don't even need to actually like it to do it. Is this really the measure of success a band (or person, or entity) strives for these days? A positive web presence?

[Anguyen92]

^^ It's a lot better than striving for an unhealthy and negative web presence where people hate on everything.