Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Stadler]

It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.

Right, but in this specific instance, I'd say Jeff's performance suffered from being held to those constraints.

Yes agreed. JSS has a lot more range but went unused. It is like having a superstar basketball player but telling him to only play 20 minutes and don't hustle too much so they don't get hurt.

This all assumes that "range" is the standard for determining effort.   I don't really see it that way.    Gene Simmons has a half octave range on his best day and he's got some killer - for the music - vocal performances.   Dave Roth has even less range, and - in studio - his performance on ADKOT was the highlight of the album (for me).  Geddy Lee and Robert Plant have significantly narrowed their ranges on recent records, and (especially Plant) have turned in stellar performances recently.    I'm less bugged by JSS's "range" on the record than his tone.   The entire record is plopped squarely in that mid-range area and so all the parts seem to be competing with each other.  There's no separation, no breathing room on that record.  AT.  ALL. 

[mikeyd23]

It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.

Right, but in this specific instance, I'd say Jeff's performance suffered from being held to those constraints.

Yes agreed. JSS has a lot more range but went unused. It is like having a superstar basketball player but telling him to only play 20 minutes and don't hustle too much so they don't get hurt.

This all assumes that "range" is the standard for determining effort.   I don't really see it that way.    Gene Simmons has a half octave range on his best day and he's got some killer - for the music - vocal performances.   Dave Roth has even less range, and - in studio - his performance on ADKOT was the highlight of the album (for me).  Geddy Lee and Robert Plant have significantly narrowed their ranges on recent records, and (especially Plant) have turned in stellar performances recently.    I'm less bugged by JSS's "range" on the record than his tone.   The entire record is plopped squarely in that mid-range area and so all the parts seem to be competing with each other.  There's no separation, no breathing room on that record.  AT.  ALL.

I, in no way, would assume that.

[bill1971]

It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.

Right, but in this specific instance, I'd say Jeff's performance suffered from being held to those constraints.

Yes agreed. JSS has a lot more range but went unused. It is like having a superstar basketball player but telling him to only play 20 minutes and don't hustle too much so they don't get hurt.

This all assumes that "range" is the standard for determining effort.   I don't really see it that way.    Gene Simmons has a half octave range on his best day and he's got some killer - for the music - vocal performances.   Dave Roth has even less range, and - in studio - his performance on ADKOT was the highlight of the album (for me).  Geddy Lee and Robert Plant have significantly narrowed their ranges on recent records, and (especially Plant) have turned in stellar performances recently.    I'm less bugged by JSS's "range" on the record than his tone.   The entire record is plopped squarely in that mid-range area and so all the parts seem to be competing with each other.  There's no separation, no breathing room on that record.  AT.  ALL.

I, in no way, would assume that.

That was not my intent to say that range is the standard. Anyhow, just a loose analogy so I can see it being interpreted many ways.

[bill1971]

So if Derek is all about faithfully reproducing music in a live setting, why did he use a string ensemble unless he is planning on taking them with for the tour? It's okay to alter some of the music but not the vocals?

Do not criticize the master!! You shall be harshly judged.

[cramx3]

I think fans are more harsh against piped in vocals than piped in symphonic elements.

[MirrorMask]

I think fans are more harsh against piped in vocals than piped in symphonic elements.

Also, while a fan could go "Why did the singer sang so high in the studio since he can't do it live?", only the most stubborn and extremist purist would say  "Why it's just the main band on stage and not the 20 guest musicians used to embellish the arrangements?"

[ganpondorodf]

I think Stadler is really onto something with that mid-range comment. The album just sounds so dull and repetitive so that observation makes a lot of sense to me

[rumborak]

In my book it all comes down to the same thing, which is the time they spent on it. A lot of the aspects on the album feel improvised, first-take. That's I believe why they even ended up doing the same melody twice in two separate songs; they simply didn't spend enough time on it to notice they had accidentally plugged in the same melody again.

[cramx3]

I think Stadler is really onto something with that mid-range comment. The album just sounds so dull and repetitive so that observation makes a lot of sense to me

I agree with that as well, JSS's mid range same vocals throughout the album is what holds the album back in terms of performance

In my book it all comes down to the same thing, which is the time they spent on it. A lot of the aspects on the album feel improvised, first-take. That's I believe why they even ended up doing the same melody twice in two separate songs; they simply didn't spend enough time on it to notice they had accidentally plugged in the same melody again.

as well as this in terms of songwriting.

[ErHaO]

I like JSS's vocals here, but agree he is in the same "mode" throughout most of the album. Not only in tone, but also in terms of other things that make a performance more "soulful" (type of melodies, rythm, pronounciation/emphasization, intensity etc.). He sounds the same on his latest solo album, but frequently has little details in his singing that makes the overall performance much livelier.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Prog Report's list of best albums of 2017:

https://progreport.com/new-best-prog-albums-of-2017/

[bill1971]

Prog Report's list of best albums of 2017:

https://progreport.com/new-best-prog-albums-of-2017/

I will have to check out Big Big Train – Grimspound. I love Pain of Salvation – In the Passing Light of Day and Steven Wilson – To The Bone. Both surprised me, I kind of felt like I was over both of them but these are both amazing breaths of fresh air.

 

[The Walrus]

SCENE: A cold wind from the north blows across a snowy plain, crashing against the walls of an aged cabin. The front door creaks open with a strong gust. On the winds of winter, scraps of a newspaper article blow into the dusty living room of a once lively thread, now cold with the memories of scuttlebutt and Internet arguments:




SCENE: With only a little trouble, Shitstirinian lights the fireplace and pours himself a glass of barrel-aged whiskey as he reclines into the fancy rocking chair. Creaking rhythmically upon the bare wooden floor, Shitsirinian smiles. "My plan for world domination is only beginning." CAMERA PANS UP, FADE-OUT WITH SUBDUED LAUGHTER

[Ben_Jamin]

He must be referring to Yngwie haha.

[DragonAttack]

Tropical breezes warm hearts and souls on the deck during the 'Cruise To The Edge' tour.  After landfall, the minstrels make their way along the continental coast.  A cold wind from the north blows across a snowy interstate, crashing against the walls of swerving RV. The front door creaks open with a strong gust.  On the winds of winter, scraps of a McDonald's wrapper blow out of the cramped sleeping quarters of a once upbeat band, now cold after travelling all night from Buffalo to Battle Creek in February,..... wondering just WTF did they get themselves into.

Flip some burgers, Derek, that will warm you that day.

[The Walrus]

Tropical breezes warm hearts and souls on the deck during the 'Cruise To The Edge' tour.  After landfall, the minstrels make their way along the continental coast.  A cold wind from the north blows across a snowy interstate, crashing against the walls of swerving RV. The front door creaks open with a strong gust.  On the winds of winter, scraps of a McDonald's wrapper blow out of the cramped sleeping quarters of a once upbeat band, now cold after travelling all night from Buffalo to Battle Creek in February,..... wondering just WTF did they get themselves into.

Flip some burgers, Derek, that will warm you that day.

 

[Cool Chris]

TAC, please... allow me....

Who the hell is Joe Bosso?

[TAC]

TAC, please... allow me....

Who the hell is Joe Bosso?

Looks like the guitarist for The Poodles. Don't know who The Poodles are, just as bl5150 or Wolfking.

[Dave_Manchester]

"I know a really guilty band of this"

That's some Trumpist syntax right there.

[Sycsa]

"I know a really guilty band of this"

That's some Trumpist syntax right there.

Yeah, Derek made it pretty obvious in the past few months that, besides being petty and unfunny, he's not particularly smart either. I guess these all go hand in hand. But hey, at least he's ripped and got sick-ass chops with octopus pedigree. Him & Mike should just cut their losses already.

[bill1971]

"I know a really guilty band of this"

That's some Trumpist syntax right there.

Yeah, Derek made it pretty obvious in the past few months that, besides being petty and unfunny, he's not particularly smart either. I guess these all go hand in hand. But hey, at least he's ripped and got sick-ass chops with octopus pedigree. Him & Mike should just cut their losses already.

What do you mean he's not funny. He is very witty. It is very hard to make the same jokes about apps and cheese over and over and over again







and over and over....

[Schurftkut]

There's this youtube reaction video guy MP retweeted that just posted this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOsIq_wftms

He did a popular Dream Theater marathon praising MP etc, got mentioned by MP,  and now he comes to post-MP era DT he's posting in a totally different style and calling everything bad 

[The Walrus]

I don't see that retweeted on Mike's Twitter but it wouldn't surprise me after he pushed to get people to like the SoA FB and less than 1500 people actually did. And they're still not at 40k likes. But at least they'll have cool socks. They better be warm, for playing drafty sheds in Michigan 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

SCENE: A cold wind from the north blows across a snowy plain, crashing against the walls of an aged cabin. The front door creaks open with a strong gust. On the winds of winter, scraps of a newspaper article blow into the dusty living room of a once lively thread, now cold with the memories of scuttlebutt and Internet arguments:




SCENE: With only a little trouble, Shitstirinian lights the fireplace and pours himself a glass of barrel-aged whiskey as he reclines into the fancy rocking chair. Creaking rhythmically upon the bare wooden floor, Shitsirinian smiles. "My plan for world domination is only beginning." CAMERA PANS UP, FADE-OUT WITH SUBDUED LAUGHTER

My kingdom for someone who answers something along the lines of 'Planet X?'.

Nothing against Planet X but those two, even if they didn't want to (which of course they DID want to), were a big part of that 'extremely technical' band of music the post criticizes so much. Heck, MP is 'haha-ing' his life's big project. Are we looking too much into this? If this was an isolated case probably that would be the case, but there's a list of 15+ pretty blatant attacks towards DT or the individual members of the band that add up to a big pile of stinking public persona. 'But...DarkLol! Maybe they're not talking about Dream Theater!' 85% sure they are, given all of their 'Del Fluvio wit' has revolved around negative comments towards DT, its music and its members. Stop with the double standards, please.

Ah, things were much simpler before Facebook took over the world.

[ganpondorodf]

I think the worst thing is that Derek apparently 'liked' his own comment

[shadystraz360]

Just popped in as i havent been on this thread for a while....
Wondered what everyone has been up to....
And a while ago I noticed that someone got kicked out of my old JLB thread for their insulting comments towards JLB.... And yet people here are freely bashing Mike & Derek simultainiously....
Is that allowed or is this reserved for hardcore DT fans only?

Just a thought as an impartial observer..
As i have never insutled anyone be it past or present member i find it confusing that its allowed here on this thread. I thought Bosk mentioned that he doesnt allow this kind of thing to go on within the forum?

[SystematicThought]

If you’re referring to Loki getting kicked out of your thread, I don’t think anyone in this thread as approached his level of bashing.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Wait, can you get exclusively banned from specific threads? I didn't know that... 

[shadystraz360]

If you’re referring to Loki getting kicked out of your thread, I don’t think anyone in this thread as approached his level of bashing.

It was "no" something. Flitter, Flatter.... who knows.
Just he made a standard comment that was removed and he hasnt commented since... so i can only presume he aint here no more...

I was only having a flick through the last load of pages and looked like many have their own levels of what is acceptable.

No biggie.... just noticing

[shadystraz360]

Wait, can you get exclusively banned from specific threads? I didn't know that... 

No im saying he made a comment on a thread i did ages ago.. comment was removed and he hasnt been seen since. Logical conclusion, he isnt in the forum anymore....

[jcmoorehead]

Just popped in as i havent been on this thread for a while....
Wondered what everyone has been up to....
And a while ago I noticed that someone got kicked out of my old JLB thread for their insulting comments towards JLB.... And yet people here are freely bashing Mike & Derek simultainiously....
Is that allowed or is this reserved for hardcore DT fans only?

Just a thought as an impartial observer..
As i have never insutled anyone be it past or present member i find it confusing that its allowed here on this thread. I thought Bosk mentioned that he doesnt allow this kind of thing to go on within the forum?

I think one of the main differences is that whilst yes there is some 'bashing' of Sherinian/Portnoy going on here it's mostly responding and calling out what those two are doing. It makes it a bit fair of fair game in that sense.

I haven't read the other thread but most people just seem to attack JLB as a default and sometimes the insults get quite bad. If JLB was in interviews and social media going "HAHA SONS OF APOLLO? MORE LIKE SONGS OF UR-ANUS AMIRITE HAHA EL-CANUCKIAN-TIM-HORTONS WIT AMIRITE?" then I think maybe it'd be fair enough to call him out on that.

---

As far as Sherinian/Portnoy and their continued shots at DT go, everytime I see something from them it just makes me glad I didn't pick up the album. I do usually try to ignore what sort of person an artist is when it comes to buying their music but in this case I just got fed up of the pair of them. I think the last straw for me really was them directing people to have a go at the fan who posted a review that gave it a 7/10 or some similar score.

[The Walrus]

Straz, bosk has addressed that multiple times already. And Loki was banned for outright flaming JLB

[ProfessorPeart]

All the 'hate' doesn't seem to be affecting the Portnoy/Petrucci families relationship.

https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/943631908088504320

[devieira73]

Truly beautiful 

[gzarruk]

All the 'hate' doesn't seem to be affecting the Portnoy/Petrucci families relationship.

https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/943631908088504320

JP’s son is starting to grow the same beard as his father. Man, their beard game is strong