Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Schurftkut]

at least i know a whole lot more about the show it's talking about. Still no piece resembling good journalism.

[Schurftkut]

p.s. i'm not in "camp portnoy/camp DT" ... I don't care about that childish game some are playing here.

[Adami]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

No.

Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater

No.

[SystematicThought]

I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?

Nope. Sorry.

If Derek hadn't gone out and ripped on Dream Theater and it's members for no other reason but to promote his band, then us nitpicking every little thing about the band would most certainly be considered trolling and we would definitely be acting petty.

However, that's not how it played out. Derek took every opportunity to turn people away from this project by insulting Dream Theater and their fans, and in some cases on the this forum, some of us directly. We're just merely calling him out on it, so I think we're justified in what we say. If you don't like what we're saying, you don't need to read it. For the most part, we've been pretty fair. Bosk has said it many times before in this thread, the criticism this band has faced from us has been brought on by themselves, and really not even that...it's been brought on by Derek and his damaged ego feeling the need to drag others down to make himself look better. If Derek had kept his mouth shut, I think most of us would have given this band a shot. Sadly, I have no interest due to the actions of one person. Sorry you don't agree, but it is what it is.

[SwedishGoose]

Which shirt should I buy? I'm thinking this one.

Initially I thought that shirt was a joke but then I saw Mike post about merch on facebook....

Had I liked the album and the Del Fuvians had not tainted their reputation I would have like this.... cool idea

[Cool Chris]

So they were established in 1997, were active for a year, then went on hiatus for 20 years? That certainly seems t-shirt worthy.

[nobloodyname]

Plus, then a whole wave of people would complain about continuing to milk The Astonishing. The book already gets tons of flack just for existing. 

I wish it did exist. They've had my money for, what, a year now?

[Fritzinger]

Which shirt should I buy? I'm thinking this one.

Initially I thought that shirt was a joke but then I saw Mike post about merch on facebook....

Had I liked the album and the Del Fuvians had not tainted their reputation I would have like this.... cool idea

I think this is beyond arrogant.

[MirrorMask]

It's not arrogant, but... making a shirt about a SINGLE joke? like if it was the greatest joke ever that needs to be preserved for posterity? sure, it was a nice moment to introduce the Once in a Livetime video, but to consider it worthy of T-shirt status and/or a defining moment for Derek...

It's like if DT would make a shirt about the "Sorry for the short set" remark by James after the 3+ hours show of Live Scenes from New York.

[erwinrafael]

JSS said on his FB that the site of the show with the orchestra is his wife's hometown. Nice.

[devieira73]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

[noxon]

Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater

There's a big difference in the two actually - although you wont see most of the difference if youre not a paying member of Teamrock. See that continue reading button at the bottom? That leads to MUCH more of the review, which is actually full of what a review should have. The Sons of Apollo thing reads like the press release that the band themselves gave out.

[The Walrus]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

Not true at all

[RodrigoAltaf]

Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater

There's a big difference in the two actually - although you wont see most of the difference if youre not a paying member of Teamrock. See that continue reading button at the bottom? That leads to MUCH more of the review, which is actually full of what a review should have. The Sons of Apollo thing reads like the press release that the band themselves gave out.

I have access to the full content of TeamRock. A lot reviews I've seen on Metal Hammer are short like the one of SOA. It doesn't mean that it's fake, not valid, or a piece of advertisement. There's no need to undermine the value of the article, just because you don't agree with what it says.

[ReaperKK]

I wonder if the internet was more prevalent back in 1997 that if Derek would act the way he is acting now.

[devieira73]

Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater

There's a big difference in the two actually - although you wont see most of the difference if youre not a paying member of Teamrock. See that continue reading button at the bottom? That leads to MUCH more of the review, which is actually full of what a review should have. The Sons of Apollo thing reads like the press release that the band themselves gave out.

I have access to the full content of TeamRock. A lot reviews I've seen on Metal Hammer are short like the one of SOA. It doesn't mean that it's fake, not valid, or a piece of advertisement. There's no need to undermine the value of the article, just because you don't agree with what it says.

This and, also, if you look at the reviews section of a magazine like Roadcrew in Brazil (which is a excellent rock magazine, IMO the best from the brazilian one nowadays) they are all a bit short because there's a lot of albums every month to cover, and you know, it's not like a "Roadiecrew especial edition - Sons of Apollo - Psychotic Symphonyv - The Review to end all reviews".

[devieira73]

JSS said on his FB that the site of the show with the orchestra is his wife's hometown. Nice.

I’m glad to know that! At least her family will be at the recording of the DVD!

Sorry, guys, in the spirit of this thread, I couldn’t resist the joke

[Stadler]

I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?

Nope. Sorry.

If Derek hadn't gone out and ripped on Dream Theater and it's members for no other reason but to promote his band, then us nitpicking every little thing about the band would most certainly be considered trolling and we would definitely be acting petty.

However, that's not how it played out. Derek took every opportunity to turn people away from this project by insulting Dream Theater and their fans, and in some cases on the this forum, some of us directly. We're just merely calling him out on it, so I think we're justified in what we say. If you don't like what we're saying, you don't need to read it. For the most part, we've been pretty fair. Bosk has said it many times before in this thread, the criticism this band has faced from us has been brought on by themselves, and really not even that...it's been brought on by Derek and his damaged ego feeling the need to drag others down to make himself look better. If Derek had kept his mouth shut, I think most of us would have given this band a shot. Sadly, I have no interest due to the actions of one person. Sorry you don't agree, but it is what it is.

I respectfully do not agree with that.    That's the musical equivalent of "did you see what she was wearing?" or "I know you are but what am I?", that game that school kids play.    Regardless of anything Derek did, we have a personal responsibility to control our own behavior.    It's one thing to say, in response to Derek's comments, "I don't agree with that", or even "I don't feel comfortable supporting that project."    It's entirely another thing to call Derek names, ascribe motivations (that we have no way of knowing) and by proxy ascribing this all to Mike as well (because apparently, being the final arbiter of decisions in the band seems to make you responsible for pre-approving any social media release even on other people's personal twitter account).  Either way, though, own the response, don't blame the band.

Most of the criticisms have been fair, I'll give you that, but some have gone over the top, and some have patently refused to acknowledge even the slightest positive from this project (and like it or not - for me, musically it's not a home-run - there are some highlights, Thal and (for some, not me) Soto).   And others, who have supported the band despite the questionable choices of marketing, have been tagged as "fanboys".   

Look, you're talking to a guy that professed to be Team Mike.  And I'll admit that some of the developments over the past few months have tarnished that.  I see what was a fiercely creative, fiercely fan-friendly, fiercely talented guy sort of morph into a fiercely talented, fiercely driven guy who's perhaps starting to feel his age, is experiencing the first faint wisps of desperation, and as a result is micromanaging things to a detrimental degree.  Like Mike, I turned 50 a couple months ago, and for some it can be a different age.   Mike at this point doesn't have an entity that can be a regular, periodic touring entity that can go out AT HIS WHIM (everything else is tied to other members or is controlled by other members).   He's got a lot of eggs in this basket.   If we're going to speculate on Mike and Derek's feelings about or relationship with DT, I think it's only fair to recognize that the personal aspect of things is a possible factor in all this as well. 

[Stadler]

Which shirt should I buy? I'm thinking this one.

Initially I thought that shirt was a joke but then I saw Mike post about merch on facebook....

Had I liked the album and the Del Fuvians had not tainted their reputation I would have like this.... cool idea

I think this is beyond arrogant.

Eh, it's rock and roll.  I went to see Yngwie a couple weeks ago and he had ONE SHIRT for sale:   black, with white block letters that said "Yngwie, who?" on the front, and "Yngwie Fucking Malmsteen, that's who!" on the back.   Equally arrogant.

I'm not taking any credit for any of this, but I posted on Mike's site a couple months ago that I thought the "Making history... and you?" line was very funny, certainly the funniest thing I've ever heard on a DT record (I referenced the version on the Ytsejam studio recordings, though) and then about a week later they referenced it in one of the videos of them sitting on stools talking about the new project.   Again, I'm not making a connection with me, but pointing out that this is not an "isolated" thing, and some might think it's clever.  How is this any different than the "Toxic Twins" t-shirts that went around when Aerosmith got clean (I guess around "Pump"?), or the Glimmer Twins references for the Stones?   When the Eagles got back together they made a bunch of money off the "When Hell Freezes Over" nonsense, and if I'm not mistaken, Guns and Roses have made reference to their renewed partnership. 

If even one person says "what's the deal with that?" and digs in, their work is done. 

[Train of Naught]

It all comes down to how well the band knows their audience and conducts marketing strategies based on their knowledge. It may be arrogant, but if they are aware of some in-joke going 'viral' within their fanbase and attempting to capitalize on that, it is probably a good idea. Now I have no clue what the demographics of Sons of Apollo are exactly so I've got another example.

I think like last year or this year, Animals As Leaders put out this t-shirt for sale:

Arrogant? Extremely. But the endless circlejerk about their music being technical wankery and their fans praising Tosin to no end made this a huge success. The t-shirt even came back by popular demand after it was taken out of the assortment.

[rumborak]

It was genuinely funny when it appeared on the DVD, definitely. That they're now dragging it out again as this supposedly epically humorous line, meh. A bit like Ass and Balls, where the author thinks it's funnier than everybody else.

[Stadler]

It was genuinely funny when it appeared on the DVD, definitely. That they're now dragging it out again as this supposedly epically humorous line, meh. A bit like Ass and Balls, where the author thinks it's funnier than everybody else.

Well, you're right about one thing:  that it is funny doesn't mean you drive it into the ground.   Sometimes a little bit goes a long way.

[Evermind]

It all comes down to how well the band knows their audience and conducts marketing strategies based on their knowledge. It may be arrogant, but if they are aware of some in-joke going 'viral' within their fanbase and attempting to capitalize on that, it is probably a good idea. Now I have no clue what the demographics of Sons of Apollo are exactly so I've got another example.

I think like last year or this year, Animals As Leaders put out this t-shirt for sale:

Arrogant? Extremely. But the endless circlejerk about their music being technical wankery and their fans praising Tosin to no end made this a huge success. The t-shirt even came back by popular demand after it was taken out of the assortment.

Speaking of that, I have this Devin Townsend's Transcendence shirt:

[bill1971]

It's not arrogant, but... making a shirt about a SINGLE joke? like if it was the greatest joke ever that needs to be preserved for posterity? sure, it was a nice moment to introduce the Once in a Livetime video, but to consider it worthy of T-shirt status and/or a defining moment for Derek...

It's like if DT would make a shirt about the "Sorry for the short set" remark by James after the 3+ hours show of Live Scenes from New York.

True, it would be like making a Tshirt of Kevin Moore's comment about that girl that asked for an autograph in their first VHS release. I forget the exact words but he is saying she doesn't know who Dream Theater is but she had a pen, so why not?

[Nick]

That DTP shirt is amazing.

[Sycsa]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

240% delusion.

[RodrigoAltaf]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...

[bill1971]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...

Where? I think people have been very even handed with if a review is really a review or not. I actually think an all negative review is as bad as an all positive one.

[Sycsa]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...

If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?

[?]

That Devin shirt

Now we need a petition to demand DT to release a Live in Tokyo 25th anniversary shirt with "I had a pen and some paper, so what the fuck" on it next year...

[cramx3]

I also have that DTP shirt 

[rumborak]

I have not bought a DT shirt in years. If they had a funny shirt like that, I would buy one in a heartbeat.

[RodrigoAltaf]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...

If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?

I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point, but there are a bunch of negative reviews that came out before the album was released that got a lot of attention and highlight here - relevant or not, well written or not, detailed enough or not. Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

[Adami]

No one dismissing positive reviews because they're positive. They're dismissing poorly written reviews that do nothing but say how amazing something is without actually reviewing it.

If you found a review that just said "this album sucks! the guys have no idea how to play!" or whatever, we'd dismiss that too.

[Sycsa]

it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...

If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?

I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point, but there are a bunch of negative reviews that came out before the album was released that got a lot of attention and highlight here - relevant or not, well written or not, detailed enough or not. Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

I’ve been closely following every single SoA thread since the beginning, and I have no idea what you’re referring to. We had overwhelmingly positive pre-release reviews, to the point where someone even wrote a fake “parody” review. Noxon gave it a very reasonable 7/10 in a detailed review, and got called out for it by Derek on social media. Pending any “evidence,” I’m calling shenanigans on your part.