Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Madman Shepherd]

Well, that was said as a joke, but I guess it's only logical that if certain opportunities arise, you just go for them.

Iced Earth back in 2001 postponed an european tour to open for Judas Priest, which was of course a chance not to be missed. Then sadly 9/11 happened and when the postponed tour once again collided with the european dates, they didn't feel like postponing Europe for the second time and renounced the JP gig.

I already had my tickets when that show was canceled.  I think Priest ended up taking out Anthrax instead. 

[contest_sanity]

Well, that was said as a joke, but I guess it's only logical that if certain opportunities arise, you just go for them.

Iced Earth back in 2001 postponed an european tour to open for Judas Priest, which was of course a chance not to be missed. Then sadly 9/11 happened and when the postponed tour once again collided with the european dates, they didn't feel like postponing Europe for the second time and renounced the JP gig.

I don't think an SoA opening slot would have been financially viable for Galactic Cowboys, as I'm pretty sure all those guys still have to work regular jobs. I assume it would have to be a HUGE touring slot (and maybe even DT wouldn't be big enough) for them to make enough money to replace their normal livelihoods.

[MirrorMask]

Discovered it only now - Sons of Apollo announced already a show for late June here in Milan, they're gonna play the same theatre DT played for The Astonishing. Price is more or less in line with middle-to-big names, 34 euros, give or take what I usually pay for Blind Guardian, Helloween, Avantasia etc...

Keyword here is THEATRE - while it was nice for a change to see DT perform in such a venue for The Astonishing, it's gonna be quite weird to have them play there instead than a club, it's gonna feel more disconneted I guess with people sitting down. The Shattered Fortress also played in a smaller theatre (ironically, it is right next to the bigger sports arena that DT always play), don't know why rock concerts are held in sitting theatres (at least here in Europe, you stand for these kind of concerts!)...

[noxon]

Maybe they know the audience will be predominately middle aged men with bad backs?

[ganpondorodf]

Exclusively seated venues for this sort of thing are stupid. One of the reasons I've passed on DT the last few years; I want to be sweaty and gross and being shoved around while I scream along with the tunes. I can do seated for King Crimson, Steven Wilson and the like... But seated venues for metal shows? No.

[cramx3]

Yea, I'm not a fan of the seated venues for metal.  It works on occasion, but usually not as fun as being in the pit.  TSF show was awesome and full of energy in a GA venue and much more fun vibe than any recent DT show.  Speaking of, almost time to see DT in Dallas from my seat.  I scooped up a first row in the last section, I'm sure I will be sitting or asked to sit if I do not (which tonight, compared to the NYC show, I will sit if it comes to that)

[Anguyen92]

Yeah, I can see the issue of a band like them playing a venue like this.  It was fine for DT for their Astonishing tour.  I don't think this venue can allow these seats to be removed.  Surely, there's got to be a venue in Milan, Italy that can fill 2,000+ people and be GA standing primarily? 



Edit: Actually, there is.  Alcatraz looks to be a similar venue in size and looks to be standing.

[cramx3]

I'm actually a bit surprised they are playing significantly bigger venues in Europe.  I know a lot of metal bands do since it's more popular over there than the states, but makes me feel like this first round in the US is a test run.  Not just for promoters, but for the band and gelling a live performance together before they play bigger shows.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I just went through 10 solid pages of this thread.

I have a few thoughts (that may or may not have been already shared and maybe lots of you won't care but here it goes lol):

1) I agree 100% with those who say that Sherinian and Portnoy brought this drama upon themselves. They're behaving like a pair of teenagers who don't seem to know their place in their respective music worlds and it's quite a shame considering I grew up almost idolizing these two folks. Big props to the DT camp for staying silent, classy and focused on more important things than coming down to their level for the mud wars. The 'Del Fluvio' boys got all dirty and they didn't even got their ball back. I must say that the internet drama is fairly amusing and I get some entertainment out of it (as I know lots of you do as well haha).

2) Childish social media attacks aside, I think these two folks are overselling their status as former members of DT for their own gain. It makes sense to some point because that's basically the only thing that's going to make their music sell and be heard (even though Sherinian and Portnoy have had tens of projects, their ex-DT status is the only thing keeping them under the radar) but they shouldn't abuse it. It's not intelligent to sell SoA as the new self-proclaimed kings of Prog Metal because they're not and they have a long mountain to climb before they aspire to anything close to what they did with DT (and what DT is doing with Mangini), and a mountain they won't probably have the time to climb because age forgives no one.

3) Musically, this album was cool and I enjoyed it but I don't seem to want to replay it a lot. I think Maximum Opus is the best track and one I find myself wanting to listen to from time to time but that's about it. That's as objective as I can get. It's a nice prog metal record but it's nowhere the level of what bands like Haken are doing. Instrumentally, the vocals are nice but nothing special (I mean, that's a style of timbre and voice I basically hear in every modern prog metal album), Bumblefoot really surprised me with his heavy riffing and Billy sounds like he's sounded in the past 25 years. They all did a solid job, though.

4) Speaking of Haken and younger bands that grew under DTīs wing, I find it very hilarious that they seem to be much more down to earth and much more focused than their elder mentors Sherinian and Portnoy.

I think thatīs all I had to say about this. Sorry for the long post!

P.S: The Sherinian in DTF conspiracy theory has been some of the best content in the past few months. DONīT STOP.

[SystematicThought]

1) I agree 100% with those who say that Sherinian and Portnoy brought this drama upon themselves. They're behaving like a pair of teenagers who don't seem to know their place in their respective music worlds and it's quite a shame considering I grew up almost idolizing these two folks.

Just don't tell Derek that it sucks seeing two people you idolized causing so much drama. He told me I need to get over myself and that it doesn't affect me and I need to focus on pets and loved ones. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

1) I agree 100% with those who say that Sherinian and Portnoy brought this drama upon themselves. They're behaving like a pair of teenagers who don't seem to know their place in their respective music worlds and it's quite a shame considering I grew up almost idolizing these two folks.

Just don't tell Derek that it sucks seeing two people you idolized causing so much drama. He told me I need to get over myself and that it doesn't affect me and I need to focus on pets and loved ones. 

I would love him to tell me that and answer with a: 'Don't worry, I sleep just fine! But thank you for your concern.' 

[ErHaO]

Keyword here is THEATRE - while it was nice for a change to see DT perform in such a venue for The Astonishing, it's gonna be quite weird to have them play there instead than a club, it's gonna feel more disconneted I guess with people sitting down. The Shattered Fortress also played in a smaller theatre (ironically, it is right next to the bigger sports arena that DT always play), don't know why rock concerts are held in sitting theatres (at least here in Europe, you stand for these kind of concerts!)...

A theater can be fine for rock/metal/prog (and many other genres). I have seen plenty of shows in them, especially for older artists. Seeing Dream Theater was one of the lesser experiences for several reasons. a) the worst sound I have ever had in a theater with no ability to move physically away from the speakers (loud as hell) and b) zero energy from the band themselves expect for Mangini. When there is no real active crowd, all attention goes to the stage and the artist needs to be engaging beyond playing the music well. I love Dream Theater and I really like the Astonishing, but the way they made the show and how they present themselves didn't really work out well in a theater, despite the cool visuals.

Some of my theater experiences have been kind of like watching an amazing live dvd but in real life, often with better acoustics and sound than in concert halls. And furthermore, the seated nature and structure of many theaters actually can allow for great interactions between the artists and the crowd. For example, in Carre (where I also saw DT) I saw Elvis Costello and he unplugged his gear and did a track fully acoustic for about 1800 people. Also, people usually don't use phones or talk during quiet parts in a theater.

Now I usually go to regular venues where I stand (it is the norm and for some artists I do prefer it), but I think both settings have their advantages.

[Spiritus]

I'm actually a bit surprised they are playing significantly bigger venues in Europe.  I know a lot of metal bands do since it's more popular over there than the states, but makes me feel like this first round in the US is a test run.  Not just for promoters, but for the band and gelling a live performance together before they play bigger shows.

I can understand that. But really look at that pic of the one venue. It literally is a shed/garage type building in what seems to be some run down industrial area. For the names involved in SoA to be playing what is surely to have some local pimply teens playing the night before and after is a bit embarassing. It must be at least for the del fuvy brothers after all the "we are kings taking over" stuff.

[MirrorMask]

Yeah, I can see the issue of a band like them playing a venue like this.  It was fine for DT for their Astonishing tour.  I don't think this venue can allow these seats to be removed.  Surely, there's got to be a venue in Milan, Italy that can fill 2,000+ people and be GA standing primarily? 

Edit: Actually, there is.  Alcatraz looks to be a similar venue in size and looks to be standing.

Alcatraz is by now the main and only venue for big-medium acts we have in Milan. We have a basket arena that DT and Iron Maiden play, said Alcatraz, then a slightly smaller venue 20 KM away from Milan and that's it, the rest are very small clubs, we don't really have that many choices for venues.

Also Mike himself played Alcatraz both with Transatlantic and Flying Colors, I would have figured it would have been the logical choice to go, also because the venue has moving stages so they can either have the main, bigger stage (where I've seen Blind Guardian, Helloween, Alice Cooper, just to give an idea of what kind of crowd fills the venue), or prepare a smaller stage on the side closing off the main stage, I've seen Iced Earth, Kamelot and Shadow Gallery on this smaller stage. Either one of the stages would have been more than fine for Sons of Apollo I guess...

[KevShmev]

2) Childish social media attacks aside, I think these two folks are overselling their status as former members of DT for their own gain. It makes sense to some point because that's basically the only thing that's going to make their music sell and be heard (even though Sherinian and Portnoy have had tens of projects, their ex-DT status is the only thing keeping them under the radar) but they shouldn't abuse it. It's not intelligent to sell SoA as the new self-proclaimed kings of Prog Metal because they're not and they have a long mountain to climb before they aspire to anything close to what they did with DT (and what DT is doing with Mangini), and a mountain they won't probably have the time to climb because age forgives no one.

What's surprising to me is how Portnoy undersells DT on his twitter handle. Looking at it, here is the order in which he lists the bands he has played with:

Sons Of Apollo, The Winery Dogs, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse, Dream Theater, Adrenaline Mob, Avenged Sevenfold, Twisted Sister

Dream Theater is lower than Metal Allegiance?  I get listing Sons of Apollo first, since it is his current most active full-time band (until they go on hiatus in a year), but Dream Theater is billed lower than Winery Dogs?  Talking about underselling the band you were with for 25 years.

Also, that is almost a slap in the face to Neal Morse to list him so low. Below Metal Allegiance.  Really??  Neal Morse (as a solo artist and the Neal Morse Band) is by far the most prolific of the bands he is in with Neal, yet it gets their lowest billing on his own twitter handle.  Nice.

[Lethean]

Since we're talking about venues - question for the Europeans. People talk about wanting DT to play a general admission show because they prefer to stand.  But why do you have to sit at a seated venue?  Almost all of the venues they play in North America are seated, but people stand in front of their seats. For example Chicago. They've played the same theater on the last three tours. People stood for the self titled tour, sat for TA, and stood again this time. Rush plays arenas, and you have seats, but again people stand.  Do the venues make you sit? Or do people just feel obligated to?

[ganpondorodf]

Standing completely still in front of your seat is basically the same as being seated, you're just a little higher

[Lethean]

I disagree, as someone who experienced both and greatly prefers standing.  You *can* move around a bit, and you have a little more personal space to do it in. Guys in front of me last night were headbanging like crazy. 

I'm not trying to argue that seated venues are better - for me I enjoy both and there are pros and cons for both.  I just don't quite get why people have to sit just because there are seats.

[The Walrus]

I remember someone at MPF telling a story about Steven Wilson berating a crowd some years ago for sitting, in a seated venue...

[Destiny Of Chaos]

2) Childish social media attacks aside, I think these two folks are overselling their status as former members of DT for their own gain. It makes sense to some point because that's basically the only thing that's going to make their music sell and be heard (even though Sherinian and Portnoy have had tens of projects, their ex-DT status is the only thing keeping them under the radar) but they shouldn't abuse it. It's not intelligent to sell SoA as the new self-proclaimed kings of Prog Metal because they're not and they have a long mountain to climb before they aspire to anything close to what they did with DT (and what DT is doing with Mangini), and a mountain they won't probably have the time to climb because age forgives no one.

What's surprising to me is how Portnoy undersells DT on his twitter handle. Looking at it, here is the order in which he lists the bands he has played with:

Sons Of Apollo, The Winery Dogs, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse, Dream Theater, Adrenaline Mob, Avenged Sevenfold, Twisted Sister

Dream Theater is lower than Metal Allegiance?  I get listing Sons of Apollo first, since it is his current most active full-time band (until they go on hiatus in a year), but Dream Theater is billed lower than Winery Dogs?  Talking about underselling the band you were with for 25 years.

Also, that is almost a slap in the face to Neal Morse to list him so low. Below Metal Allegiance.  Really??  Neal Morse (as a solo artist and the Neal Morse Band) is by far the most prolific of the bands he is in with Neal, yet it gets their lowest billing on his own twitter handle.  Nice.

I don't find it odd to list current projects to former projects at all. See no issue with him listing DT where he did.

[Madman Shepherd]

I disagree, as someone who experienced both and greatly prefers standing.  You *can* move around a bit, and you have a little more personal space to do it in. Guys in front of me last night were headbanging like crazy. 

I'm not trying to argue that seated venues are better - for me I enjoy both and there are pros and cons for both.  I just don't quite get why people have to sit just because there are seats.

I'll argue seated venues are better. Then you don't have to deal with some drunk asshole pushing his way up front. Standing venues can be just as dead too. On that same token if people are sitting at a seated venue at a metal concert then that's just lame. The last Dream Theater show I was at I was worried the people would sit. My friend said if the people in front of him sat the he would too because he's old. I was sixth row so I said I would stand no matter what. Thankfully everybody stood with the exception of a few of the slower songs for a brief time. The energy was killer throughout.

[MirrorMask]

I think there's also some kind of "peer pressure" for lack of a better term. Nobody wants to be the first one to stand and force all the others to do it, they all wait for someone else to go along.

Ever been to a small concert with people standing casually a bit far from the stage, and the band asking to come right next to the speakers? nobody wants to be the first to be in the spotlight and stand right in front of the stage. Same kind of concept.

I think also there's a difference in the kind of venue. The big sports venue where Dream Theater and Iron Maiden play have a general admission parterre, and seated venues on the upper floors; nobody really sits in those kind of concerts. But last time around for whatever reason the parterre was seated too, and I wouldn't have wanted to be the first one to stand right there in the big middle of the venue (I was on the stands anyway).

[Madman Shepherd]

I also think the balcony is where people should be if they want to sit and that nobody should stand in the balcony except for the occasional ovation. 

When I saw The Astonishing in Chicago, 2 songs in, everybody sat.  There was a group of about 4-5 people that at various times would try to get people to stand.  They were 3rd or 4th row.  They continued to stand and probably were getting shit from people behind them.  Towards the end of the first set, when A New Beginning really starts to rock, they again stood up and turn around motioning for everybody to also with no success. I was 20 something rows back and not really into the music so I didn't bother to stand.  All around awkward experience.  We ended up leaving early actually.  I guess if you were going to sit at any concert, that would be the one with a solid chunk of soft and slow songs and keyboard interludes. 

[MirrorMask]

It should have been James to get everyone to stand up, I always imagined that during Astonishing (last song) it would have been cool to get everyone to stand up before the "On the road to revolution" part, and then when the big finale kicks in with "People can you hear us", getting everyone to wave their arms back and forth.

[ariich]

2) Childish social media attacks aside, I think these two folks are overselling their status as former members of DT for their own gain. It makes sense to some point because that's basically the only thing that's going to make their music sell and be heard (even though Sherinian and Portnoy have had tens of projects, their ex-DT status is the only thing keeping them under the radar) but they shouldn't abuse it. It's not intelligent to sell SoA as the new self-proclaimed kings of Prog Metal because they're not and they have a long mountain to climb before they aspire to anything close to what they did with DT (and what DT is doing with Mangini), and a mountain they won't probably have the time to climb because age forgives no one.

What's surprising to me is how Portnoy undersells DT on his twitter handle. Looking at it, here is the order in which he lists the bands he has played with:

Sons Of Apollo, The Winery Dogs, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse, Dream Theater, Adrenaline Mob, Avenged Sevenfold, Twisted Sister

Dream Theater is lower than Metal Allegiance?  I get listing Sons of Apollo first, since it is his current most active full-time band (until they go on hiatus in a year), but Dream Theater is billed lower than Winery Dogs?  Talking about underselling the band you were with for 25 years.

Also, that is almost a slap in the face to Neal Morse to list him so low. Below Metal Allegiance.  Really??  Neal Morse (as a solo artist and the Neal Morse Band) is by far the most prolific of the bands he is in with Neal, yet it gets their lowest billing on his own twitter handle.  Nice.

I don't find it odd to list current projects to former projects at all. See no issue with him listing DT where he did.

Agreed, all his current bands/projects are listed before his past ones. The point about Neal Morse is interesting though, I wonder if each of the two categories (current & past) is roughly in order of how much input/control he has.

[The Walrus]

It should have been James to get everyone to stand up, I always imagined that during Astonishing (last song) it would have been cool to get everyone to stand up before the "On the road to revolution" part, and then when the big finale kicks in with "People can you hear us", getting everyone to wave their arms back and forth.

Actually when I saw them on TA tour in St. Louis, if my memory serves correctly, I believe James did ask for the audience to stand for Our New World and The Astonishing. Just before the song began, though, not at that one part.

[Lethean]

Your memory is almost correct. It was for Hymn of a Thousand Voices and then through to the end of the show. As far as I know he did it for the whole NA tour.

[Madman Shepherd]

I left the show by then 

[The Walrus]

Your memory is almost correct. It was for Hymn of a Thousand Voices and then through to the end of the show. As far as I know he did it for the whole NA tour.

I've come to realize Lethean has encyclopedic knowledge of all things DT, so I stand corrected 

And shame on you, MS 

[Orbert]

I guess I'm glad that I don't go to concerts anymore, because there's no way I could stand for two hours straight.  I'm too damned old.  Doesn't matter if it's metal, classical, or anything in between, the number one reason I'm there is to hear the music.  I'd rather sit and enjoy the music than stand for two hours and hear the exact same thing but distracted by the fact that my back is killing me.

[Lethean]

Your memory is almost correct. It was for Hymn of a Thousand Voices and then through to the end of the show. As far as I know he did it for the whole NA tour.

I've come to realize Lethean has encyclopedic knowledge of all things DT, so I stand corrected 

And shame on you, MS 

No, but I have a good memory of shows I've been to. For other stuff, I do have to look a fair amount up. .

But yes, shame on you MS.  

I was in the 2nd or 3rd row for that show and didn't notice anyone behind me trying to get people to stand.  I would have preferred people to stand myself and at some TA shows they did. But when they didn't, I just focused on the show (which I loved) and it was still a great experience. Just different.

[Lethean]

Hey Orbert - for DT you could get a balcony seat. People usually sit up there.

[Cool Chris]

Hey Orbert - for DT you could get a balcony seat. People usually sit up there.

If he is too old to stand that long his eyesight is probably too shitty to be able to see that far.

[Madman Shepherd]

I guess I'm glad that I don't go to concerts anymore, because there's no way I could stand for two hours straight.  I'm too damned old.  Doesn't matter if it's metal, classical, or anything in between, the number one reason I'm there is to hear the music.  I'd rather sit and enjoy the music than stand for two hours and hear the exact same thing but distracted by the fact that my back is killing me.

I get what you're saying but I think there's a sweet spot.  For me, just sitting and watching the guys isn't much different from sitting in your living room and watching them on TV.  Not a perfect comparison but also theres not much energy to feed off of when people are politely sitting and occasionally cheering.  On the flip side, I've never understood assholes that want to mosh and crowd surf.  When I've been in those situations, I've spent my time worried I'll get elbowed in the back or hit on the head with someones foot as opposed to getting to watch the band I love thanks to people that apparently don't care to watch the band they may or may not love. 

Standing at a theatre with seats loosens restrictions on your mobility but also limits them so you don't fuck with people around you. 

Then there is the Genesis tribute band The Musical Box which faithfully reproduces old Genesis shows and just like back in the day everyone sits.  It's a weird adjustment.  Last time I saw them I got dead last row seats so that I could stand without anybody getting mad at me (it's a small theatre so I still had a great view).  I'm seeing them again in a few months and I've got  20th row or so, so I won't be standing.  It'll be weird. 

[The Walrus]

Maybe I'm just getting old quickly but standing at shows is already hard on my neck. When I saw Arch Enemy last month, it was a standing room only type of show in a club, my favorite kind of metal show, but by the time they got on stage my upper back and neck were KILLING me from having to crane to see the stage (I was off to the side for this show), and that's about all I was doing all night. Couldn't get into the music so I wasn't going wild. Maybe it's from going wild at tons of shows in previous years, maybe I'm just getting old, but that was rough.

Still, at the end of the night, I'd rather be in that type of crowd than sitting. Not that there's anything wrong with it (I enjoyed being able to take off my coat and just leave it in the seat without having to pay for coat check or strap it around my waist), but I enjoy being able to move and feel the energy of the crowd, since I still sweat in a seated show anyway