Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[bill1971]

What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Like Adrenaline Mob?

[bill1971]

Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Will MP's kit fit in there? Derek's ego?

 

[Skeever]

What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Not to be a spoil sport, but SoA are a band - no, supergroup - of guys on the decline of their career arcs. The release of their debut album was by far the biggest event with the most publicity that the band will likely ever see. Every week that goes by beyond the release of that album (already several months now) just puts the band further in the rear-view mirror. There's no "starting small" and no growing. The debut album and initial tour was their moment. IMO, their bad attitudes, inability to get a tour schedule right away or in advance of the album, and their bland, phoned in product were the death of them. The guys might not be ready to admit it yet, but my money says that the whole SoA era of MP's career is dead on arrival. MP better see if these guys want to learn how to play some DT songs if he wants to get 'em booked for leg two.

[bill1971]

What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Not to be a spoil sport, but SoA are a band - no, supergroup - of guys on the decline of their career arcs. The release of their debut album was by far the biggest event with the most publicity that the band will likely ever see. Every week that goes by beyond the release of that album (already several months now) just puts the band further in the rear-view mirror. There's no "starting small" and no growing. The debut album and initial tour was their moment. IMO, their bad attitudes, inability to get a tour schedule right away or in advance of the album, and their bland, phoned in product were the death of them. The guys might not be ready to admit it yet, but my money says that the whole SoA era of MP's career is dead on arrival. MP better see if these guys want to learn how to play some DT songs if he wants to get 'em booked for leg two.

As darkly cynical as that post was, I have to agree. For one the whole premise of the band was this great super group. "Ex- Kiss, Ex- DT Ex Journey Ex- Cetera... There is no slow build to this. The guys are in their 50's or 60's (Sheehan) I can't imagine them having the time or patience for this. Considering any one of them can get a hire paying gig as a hired gun in about a month. Such as MP with Twisted Sister.

[rumborak]

I also really can't imagine that driving 6 hours from Buffalo, NY to Battle Creek, MI in order to play in that tiny venue is going to be a joyous experience. Not when you're in your 50s and have played stadiums before.

[cramx3]

What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Not to be a spoil sport, but SoA are a band - no, supergroup - of guys on the decline of their career arcs. The release of their debut album was by far the biggest event with the most publicity that the band will likely ever see. Every week that goes by beyond the release of that album (already several months now) just puts the band further in the rear-view mirror. There's no "starting small" and no growing. The debut album and initial tour was their moment. IMO, their bad attitudes, inability to get a tour schedule right away or in advance of the album, and their bland, phoned in product were the death of them. The guys might not be ready to admit it yet, but my money says that the whole SoA era of MP's career is dead on arrival. MP better see if these guys want to learn how to play some DT songs if he wants to get 'em booked for leg two.

As darkly cynical as that post was, I have to agree. For one the whole premise of the band was this great super group. "Ex- Kiss, Ex- DT Ex Journey Ex- Cetera... There is no slow build to this. The guys are in their 50's or 60's (Sheehan) I can't imagine them having the time or patience for this. Considering any one of them can get a hire paying gig as a hired gun in about a month. Such as MP with Twisted Sister.

I don't really disagree either.  I think they messed things up from MP's first tweet about the band.  But that doesn't change the idea if they want to grow, they need to tour and accept what's available.  Whether or not this band can grow is a different question.  I think it's possible personally.  I didn't love the album, but thought there was potential there that if they took the time to write a better album and not spend so much energy shitting on DT and this forum,  they could do something special.

[KevShmev]

Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WOW.

Wow, they actually ARE playing Bill's kitchen!

 

On the bright side, they can now brag about selling out venues all over America.  And by venues, I mean casinos and trailers.

[bill1971]

Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WOW.

Wow, they actually ARE playing Bill's kitchen!

 

On the bright side, they can now brag about selling out venues all over America.  And by venues, I mean casinos and trailers.

If all five band members show up to the show it will be a sell out.

[The Walrus]

Skeever's post was dark and cynical but not farfetched and unfortunately I think he's right. This is becoming kind of uncomfortable, honestly - I'm still floored by the size of that Michigan venue. I see weekly comedy shows in a venue bigger than that, and they're free (the inside of it looks cool though, with the walls lined with band logos and art and stuff). I really didn't expect them to play such a small club. The kicker for me is that one of my buddies wants to see MP live and since tix are only $25, if he wants to go, I'll end up going, too (since he doesn't like driving to shows). A dilemma...

[Cool Chris]

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

How did both of the drivers of those cars fuck up parking so badly?

[Anguyen92]

What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Funny thing about that.  Mark Tremonti's solo band started off playing in small venues that's similar to what Sons of Apollo and this is a guy that's a main songwriter for two bands that have headlined arenas and bigger theaters before with Alter Bridge and Creed.  He personally does not mind playing smaller venues and understand that he cannot reach the success that he has attained with his two main bands overnight and he's got to build that brand as a solo band and establish it as a strong live act.

As for Sons of Apollo, I think Cramx is right in the sense that they could have been better off being a support band first to really establish themselves as a live act and if promoters like what they see, then depending on schedule, the band can do their headlining run.  I think they could have been a good shoutout to supporting A7X in arenas in early 2018.  MP absolutely knows them very well and could have been a great platform to present themselves.

[Adami]

Funny thing about that.  Mark Tremonti's solo band started off playing in small venues that's similar to what Sons of Apollo and this is a guy that's a main songwriter for two bands that have headlined arenas and bigger theaters before with Alter Bridge and Creed.  He personally does not mind playing smaller venues and understand that he cannot reach the success that he has attained with his two main bands overnight and he's got to build that brand as a solo band and establish it as a strong live act.

I assume that's because he knows he's going right back to selling out Wembley with Alter Bridge. If MP was playing sold our arenas and so forth and then also did some smaller tours, he probably wouldn't mind it either.

[Anguyen92]

Funny thing about that.  Mark Tremonti's solo band started off playing in small venues that's similar to what Sons of Apollo and this is a guy that's a main songwriter for two bands that have headlined arenas and bigger theaters before with Alter Bridge and Creed.  He personally does not mind playing smaller venues and understand that he cannot reach the success that he has attained with his two main bands overnight and he's got to build that brand as a solo band and establish it as a strong live act.

I assume that's because he knows he's going right back to selling out Wembley with Alter Bridge. If MP was playing sold our arenas and so forth and then also did some smaller tours, he probably wouldn't mind it either.

Yeah, that's honestly a good point.  All right, bad reference there.

I'm seeing Big Wreck in 2018 in Santa Ana, CA (about 20 minutes south of Anaheim).  The capacity is only 300 people, but they are not big in the states as they are in Canada (which they can comfortably sell 1,000 people+ venues) which is sad since all of their albums have been, at the very least, good.  They've been around for a while as well.  They probably understand they got to get out there in small venues and try to build from there to get a footing in the states.

[SystematicThought]

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

How did both of the drivers of those cars fuck up parking so badly?

For the pickup too, do they just drive across the grass to get in that spot?

[Adami]

Guys, don't be so cynical. New bands have to work their way up. In 10-20 years, I can really see SoA going places.

[TAC]

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

How did both of the drivers of those cars fuck up parking so badly?

For the pickup too, do they just drive across the grass to get in that spot?

 

This is literally the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long f'n time.

[The Walrus]

I can't believe I didn't notice how ridiculous those parking spaces are 

[Adami]

That's like 20 parking spots available. Good god.

[ytserush]

Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically.

What "argument?"  That's exactly what it says on their website.  They will be touring throughout 2018, and only have February dates listed so far.  Not sure what exactly you are disputing.

Wouldn't you start in the bigger cities (bigger markets) and then move to the smaller ones? I see what Stads is trying to say and I kind of agree with him. Why not start with the bigger markets first? Flying Colors did it, AMob did it, DT did it, most of every other band has done it...why not SoA? Feels weird.

My guess, promoters.  The same people who booked all those bands mentioned probably look at this project as another one along those lines and don't want to take risks booking bigger events, lets do a test run in small markets and see if people come out.  The album didn't blow up the charts so I am not sure what the turn out will be for these shows and I imagine promoters think the same.  Remember MP struggling to get NA gigs for The Shattered Fortress?  Seems like he needs to start low with this band and build it up, no better way to do that then hit the road with what's available.

Exactly. You have to start somewhere.

This is just a trial run. If it bombs, then they're in trouble.

That said I won't be making the $25 commitment although tickets are less than I expected.

I can't see why they wouldn't be able to fill these venues. This is geared to the people who think this is Dream Theater Mach II.

I think it's a smart move even if it's the only one they can make at this point.

Get on some Euro-festivals and use those to book small US club dates and see what happens.

Shouldn't be a surprise.

[TAC]

Venue in North Carolina:

[Sycsa]

It's just one more example of making me shake my head at Mike and Derek, and the fact that they lost "customers" from what should have been an almost-automatic, built-in customer base, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

+1. I was really hyped when they released the snippets. I wanted to pre-order the album at first, but ended up not buying it at all.

I also really can't imagine that driving 6 hours from Buffalo, NY to Battle Creek, MI in order to play in that tiny venue is going to be a joyous experience. Not when you're in your 50s and have played stadiums before.

Thinking about Derek's burger flippin' comment, my schadenfreude can't help but kick in a bit.

[ytserush]

Venue in North Carolina:

Well, there are some who would like a return to the Falling Into Infinity era of Dream Theater. Now, they will have that chance to experience it again.

[TAC]

And the old Talas days.

[contest_sanity]

The Atlanta venue, Variety Playhouse, has an 1100 capacity, so it's no hole in the wall. 25 bucks? I might consider going. It would definitely be more to just see the guys play live and enjoy a DT song or two, though, rather than on the strength of the SoA debut itself.

[Madman Shepherd]

I kinda feel weird saying this but the botched roll out and their underwhelming tour make me want to check this out.  I honestly thought this band would have more success than this.  They said they were at the very least going to make a second album and tour.  Mike already said by the second tour they would not do any DT cover songs and it would be exclusively SoA.  They had big plans and I had no reason to not believe they would succeed although maybe not to the degree they were hoping. 

I'm starting to think that maybe we might not get a second SoA album.  In fact, I'm surprised nobody has talked about this but in an interview posted a week ago, Mike made a comment about feeling the grind and wanting to retire.  The interviewer didn't follow up so who knows, maybe Mike made an offhanded comment and wasn't really serious.  Maybe he was thinking, "In a few years..." or maybe he really is wrapping it up. 

https://youtu.be/wWoYo0qYGw8?t=448

Either way, I'm leaning towards checking them out.  Kattleox, if you decide to drive to Joliet with your friend, we can all wear A Dramatic Turn of Events t-shirts.




Kidding of course....about the t-shirts anyway.

[Lethean]

If MP and DS had handled things differently, then even though I don't like the album, I'd go to one of the shows anyway.  Whether it was a small venue, big venue, etc.  I would have been happy to do it, and would have hoped I'd enjoy the live show even though the album isn't good.  As it stands now, I won't be seeing them. If they want to issue an apology for all the crap, and manage to avoid all of the nastiness until their tour, maybe I'd change my mind.

As for the venue sizes - I don't know if it's that big of a deal really.  Opeth played the Forge in Joliet within the last 5 years.  Fates Warning played there as well.  Fates is a legendary prog metal band and they don't draw better than that.  Plenty of other bands do worse.  I get that it's a far cry from what MP's done with DT (and certainly A7X and Twisted Sister), and I wouldn't at all be surprised if the name recognition for him and some of the other guys draws people to the shows who wouldn't catch a band like Fates Warning, but... I don't think it's a shock that they're playing these small places and it doesn't mean they suck.  If MP was truly expecting to play huge venues, then I suppose this'll be a huge disappointment but I don't really think that's the case - he had to know they'd be starting small.

[Madman Shepherd]

If MP and DS had handled things differently, then even though I don't like the album, I'd go to one of the shows anyway.  Whether it was a small venue, big venue, etc.  I would have been happy to do it, and would have hoped I'd enjoy the live show even though the album isn't good.  As it stands now, I won't be seeing them. If they want to issue an apology for all the crap, and manage to avoid all of the nastiness until their tour, maybe I'd change my mind.

As for the venue sizes - I don't know if it's that big of a deal really.  Opeth played the Forge in Joliet within the last 5 years.  Fates Warning played there as well.  Fates is a legendary prog metal band and they don't draw better than that.  Plenty of other bands do worse.  I get that it's a far cry from what MP's done with DT (and certainly A7X and Twisted Sister), and I wouldn't at all be surprised if the name recognition for him and some of the other guys draws people to the shows who wouldn't catch a band like Fates Warning, but... I don't think it's a shock that they're playing these small places and it doesn't mean they suck.  If MP was truly expecting to play huge venues, then I suppose this'll be a huge disappointment but I don't really think that's the case - he had to know they'd be starting small.

The Forge isn't a bad venue at all.  But some of these other venues they're playing at....

[ReaperKK]

Venue in North Carolina:

Well, there are some who would like a return to the Falling Into Infinity era of Dream Theater. Now, they will have that chance to experience it again.

It’s too bad they aren’t playing closer to Charlotte. I’d go.

I’ve also been the Miami casino show for a singer my gf likes, it’s frankly terrible but mainly because of the crowd. It’s an odd setup, it’s a stage in a huge building with a set of bleachers. The crowd I saw seemed like they were mainly comped tickets and not interested. I hope they get a much better audience.

[The Walrus]

Either way, I'm leaning towards checking them out.  Kattleox, if you decide to drive to Joliet with your friend, we can all wear A Dramatic Turn of Events t-shirts.

  

[Adami]

You should be more subtle. If you get to meet MP or DS, tell them you thought the album was astonishing.

[Anguyen92]

I’ve also been the Miami casino show for a singer my gf likes, it’s frankly terrible but mainly because of the crowd. It’s an odd setup, it’s a stage in a huge building with a set of bleachers. The crowd I saw seemed like they were mainly comped tickets and not interested. I hope they get a much better audience.

I've been to a show at a casino and the atmosphere and crowd was the worst ever, the band was really good though.  County fairs, House of Blues, a renovated arena, and an old theater had a better atmosphere by far than a casino show.  I just hope a small concert hall that can fit only 300 people has a similar good atmosphere and not of a casino one.

[rumborak]

I can't shake the Spinal Tap vibe here I must say.

[Madman Shepherd]

You should be more subtle. If you get to meet MP or DS, tell them you thought the album was astonishing.

Maybe bring Scenes From a Memory for Mike to sign and then turn to Derek and say "I couldn't really hear your keyboard parts but you can still sign it I guess."

[PetFish]

I really feel sorry for Bumble, Billy, and JSS in this whole debacle.

[Lethean]

I really feel sorry for Bumble, Billy, and JSS in this whole debacle.

So do I, but I saw Bumblefoot live solo, and if JSS tours for his solo album I'll try to see that too.   Perhaps buy some of their solo albums too.