Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[RodrigoAltaf]

now sons of apollo can play a change of seasons as an encore, considering there's two people there who were on the album!!

I bet they'll play it!!!

[KevShmev]

I'd be surprised. Soto doesn't have the voice to convincingly pull off that song.

[MirrorMask]

I don't think they'll play it, either. To Mike it would still look like them copying DT (I wouldn't feel this way nor I would have felt it if he had played with Shattered Fortress), it takes up a lot of time (basically the only encore) and it also draws too much attention. I mean, it's a 20+ minute song and one of the most acclaimed and revered epics of the ex band of 2 of the members, it would allmost steal the spotlight from the rest of the show. Like 2 ex members of Rush playing songs from the unique album of the new band they formed, and then playing 2112 in its entirety... it's too much of a show stealer.

[erwinrafael]

The new JSS album is out and just as I suspected, I am enjoying it more than Psychotic Symphony. A lot of cringey lyrics, but JSS is from the 1980s so that's par for the course.  But this one really showcases Jeff's current vocal capabilities.

[ytserush]

But by that logic, we're never allowed to criticize any artist for any reason, as long as they like what they did.

I mean, I get that logic, but man would that make life boring.

Criticize away then....

Hmmm......yo mama's so fat, when she sits on a rainbow, skittles pop out.

I see what you did there.

[ytserush]

Winery Dogs was pushed pretty hard by Eddie Trunk. Probably didn't make the difference of 8,000 copies but I'm sure it helped. In general the album was better promoted I thought. I'm still not really sure who the audience of SoA was supposed to be.

I see no reason while he wouldn't do the same for this one. A lot of it is radio friendly.

Well Trunk also had a hand in Winery Dog's formation (I think he recommended Kotzen or something) so that was part of it.

I have a hard time calling SoA radio friendly. Some of it was certainly written with that intention but I'm not sure what radio station (terrestrial or satellite) would be interested in playing it. It's too proggy for the straight forward rock crowd and too straight forward for the prog crowd. There's a happy medium of course (just ask Rush) but Sons of Apollo seems kinda sloppily put together. Don't get me wrong, I thought the album was fine, but like I said I'm really not sure what they were going for. In the end it's probably going to only attract a small fraction of an already niche audience.

Obviously radio would only play the songs that were released before the album came out. Also just because a song is radio friendly doesn't mean that radio WILL play the song. But some songs on this album are more accessible than others.

Given the songs that make up the album, I think they were trying to attract as broad a base as they could which may or may not happen.

[ytserush]

Wow, so they only moved 5,200 copies in the first week? Maybe that marketing strategy didn’t go over so well.

Also, in terms of radio play, I don’t see anything on this record becoming a big FM radio rock hit. A band of dudes in there 50s and 60s playing middle of the road prog metal isn’t exactly a receipt for “hits”. Which is totally fine, I mean we are having this conversation on a DT forum, it’s not like popular equals good, but when we were told this project would be the “kings” of the genre it creates an expectation of a degree of popularity.

Only if you believe what was said.

Given the context of how the album was put together makes that "kings" of the genre statement difficult to believe at best.

[ytserush]

I still think it's good but I don't know if it will have staying power. And I still think this is a lot of wasted opportunities, some more time spent composing, some more variety and you could have had a great disc.

I'd have to think the second album will be better, especially after the band is road tested.

[ytserush]

I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece.

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to what you quoted. That makes sense and indeed SFAM is their acclaimed masterpiece. 

I have noticed a lot of people being far too kind to FII.  I mean, its a great album both creatively and sonicly but when I first got into DT after SFAM a lot of the old school fans were like, "Thank god they didn't release another FII."  Then again, DT fans have a reputation for being all over the map so I guess it's par for the course.

I think we can all agree on the fact that DT has never released a bad album. However, I think FII and BC&SL are two of their most disappointing (for DT standards), but if we compare them to other bands' albums, they're way better, in most cases.

I would agree except I would say FII is not disappointing.  Of course, I became a fan after the release so I wasn't able to feel the initial disappointment some felt.  I would actually put BC&SL in with The Astonishing for disappointment.

Only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and, to a certain extent, Train Of Thought. 

Falling Into Infinity did disappoint me at the time, but I'm more able to appreciate it after many of the factors that lead me to be put off by it were removed soon after.

[Lowdz]

I still think it's good but I don't know if it will have staying power. And I still think this is a lot of wasted opportunities, some more time spent composing, some more variety and you could have had a great disc.

I'd have to think the second album will be better, especially after the band is road tested.

They have time to write for an album and will have a better idea of what to bring. Saying that, MP will still want to bash it out in a week.

[bill1971]

I think the only album I was dissapointed with was Black Clouds. I really liked A Nightmare to Remember and loved the Count of Tuscany. Wither has grown on me. The Shattered Fortress was far better live, especially that one handed fill MM does at the end. I don't really listen to Rite of Passage and haven't listened to The Best of Times since the 1st month but I won't put it down because I know all the heart and emotion MP put into the lyrics.

[Madman Shepherd]

I wasn't disappointed with Black Clouds at first.  I was so hardcore in my DT fandom that I was happy to get anything.  Then it really started to sink in that the lyrics were not that great in my opinion.  I thought Wither was a dumb song.  Shattered Fortress was a huge let down.  Only after DT played it on the AFTR tour did it start to have life.  I went back and listened to the studio version again and STILL couldnt get into it.  When it was released on BTFW I finally started to appreciate but still think the studio version is a bit lifeless. 

In fact, the only song I really love unconditional from the album is A Rite of Passage and that in many ways feels kind of un-DT.  I thought Jordan's use of an iphone was kind of cheesy (I hate to sound like Derek) but in the end it didn't detract from my love for it. 

Then there is the Astonishing which is a different story/post all together. 

[MirrorMask]

I thought Wither was a dumb song.

I'd think those are actually the best lyrics of the album. Always loved Wither, so delicate and tasteful.

[Madman Shepherd]

I thought Wither was a dumb song.

I'd think those are actually the best lyrics of the album. Always loved Wither, so delicate and tasteful.

I guess I don't think the lyrics are bad or the song necessarily but its such a sorrowful song yet its just about writers block.  I just have trouble listening to it. 

[bosk1]

I'd be surprised. Soto doesn't have the voice to convincingly pull off that song.

He ABSOLUTELY could do the song justice.  But that said, I still don't think they would do it.

[The Walrus]

I thought Wither was a dumb song.

I'd think those are actually the best lyrics of the album. Always loved Wither, so delicate and tasteful.

I guess I don't think the lyrics are bad or the song necessarily but its such a sorrowful song yet its just about writers block.  I just have trouble listening to it.

I'm with ya MS. The music is fine and the lyrics aren't bad but the gravity of the song doesn't really fit the lyrical content in my opinion, and I just think it sounds rather bland compared to a lot of the band's other ballads. One of the weak links of that album.

[Madman Shepherd]

I thought Wither was a dumb song.

I'd think those are actually the best lyrics of the album. Always loved Wither, so delicate and tasteful.

I guess I don't think the lyrics are bad or the song necessarily but its such a sorrowful song yet its just about writers block.  I just have trouble listening to it.

I'm with ya MS. The music is fine and the lyrics aren't bad but the gravity of the song doesn't really fit the lyrical content in my opinion, and I just think it sounds rather bland compared to a lot of the band's other ballads. One of the weak links of that album.

The video doesn't help either.  It's a bunch of footage of them being tired and roadworn but once again the freakin' song is about writers block. 

I do typically like DT's ballads though.

[DT2003]

For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/

Thanks for posting.  My reaction:  Yeah, more of the same abject lack of class we've seen from Derek in the last couple of months.  They managed to put together a "very good" collection of songs.  But honestly, Derek's and Mike's conduct leading up to this release makes me seriously regret my offers of support that I have given them over the years.  The backlash they have been getting is well-deserved.

This is how I feel. Unlike most people here, I really like the album, but I have only listened three times because I just really do not want to support them. I absolutely refuse to see them live when they come around. It’s sad as if theses guys conducted themselves in a professional way and acted like adults, I think I would really fall for this band, but I just have no interest in them now.

[bill1971]

Maybe JSS, Thal and Sheehan will realize they have some potential and branch out on their own pick up Virgil and some young and hungry keyboardist and call themselves the Step Sons of Apollo. Just drop the drama queens DS and MP.

[The Walrus]

And then Mike and Derek continue with their own thing and called it the Pharaohs of Denial  Sorry, couldn't help myself...

[TAC]

And then Mike and Derek continue with their own thing and called it the Pharaohs of Denial  Sorry, couldn't help myself...

 

[TheCountOfNYC]

Maybe JSS, Thal and Sheehan will realize they have some potential and branch out on their own pick up Virgil and some young and hungry keyboardist and call themselves the Step Sons of Apollo. Just drop the drama queens DS and MP.

Then Mike can talk about how his second “marriage” failed as well.

[BelichickFan]

I hope I don't come across as a jerk. The one good thing about this album for me is that because it sounds like a Symphony X wanna be, it has led me back to early Symphony X which I haven't listen to for a long time and I'm remembering how incredible it is. Sons of Apollo, not so much.

[Orbert]

Symphony X are pretty cool.  I should re-check them out.

[BelichickFan]

Symphony X are pretty cool.  I should re-check them out.

CDs 2-4 (first three with Allen) are killer. Hit and miss after that for me but still really good overall. I hear lots of Symphony X wanna be in SoA.

[Öxölklöfför]

...and here are their ”take” on the Astonishing novel.

[Dave_Manchester]

Their obsession with mentioning Dream Theater/The Astonishing at every opportunity is beyond pathetic at this stage.

Of note there is that a fan wanted to talk about Sons of Apollo, and wrote enthusiastically about the idea of the band making a concept album. Engage with that? Keep it on the topic of Sons of Apollo? Keep it positive and encourage the discussion of their new band? Nope. Make it all about Dream Theater instead.

MP, remind us please why you shut down your Forum. I seem to remember you were annoyed at all Sons of Apollo conversation eventually veering into mentions of Dream Theater. Didn't you instruct your moderators to ban anyone who brought up "that other band" during discussions of your new one?

[The Walrus]

I have a sneaking suspicion Derek set up all those fan pages himself, too.

For all his talk of positivity, Mike sure loves hanging out with the biggest cunt in prog.

[erwinrafael]

Maybe JSS, Thal and Sheehan will realize they have some potential and branch out on their own pick up Virgil and some young and hungry keyboardist and call themselves the Step Sons of Apollo. Just drop the drama queens DS and MP.

Heck, JSS should just tour for his newly-released solo album, he would enjoy it more than this SoA thing.

And do not pull Virgil away from Icefish. Virgil struck gold with that band!

[bill1971]

Maybe JSS, Thal and Sheehan will realize they have some potential and branch out on their own pick up Virgil and some young and hungry keyboardist and call themselves the Step Sons of Apollo. Just drop the drama queens DS and MP.

Heck, JSS should just tour for his newly-released solo album, he would enjoy it more than this SoA thing.

And do not pull Virgil away from Icefish. Virgil struck gold with that band!

Ok, I wont. I called him back and he is staying put.

I have to check out JSS's solo album. I do like his vocals.

[nobloodyname]

In other news, I've managed to fall out with the band on Twitter since I expressed my disappointment over the dynamic range, despite trying to be really rather polite about it. Nice to know Jay Ruston and Jeff Scott Soto think my stereo is rubbish, though

[ariich]

I have a sneaking suspicion Derek set up all those fan pages himself, too.

For all his talk of positivity, Mike sure loves hanging out with the biggest cunt in prog.

This is completely unnecessary and against forum rules:

12. Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

Consider this a formal warning. Knock off the insults.

[The Walrus]

If calling out the obvious is against rules, I'm not sorry, but whatever, I'll stop then.

[ariich]

If calling out the obvious is against rules, I'm not sorry, but whatever, I'll stop then.

You honestly see nothing wrong with your post?

[The Walrus]

No. However, if you want to continue the back and forth I'd be happy to do it via PM instead of here, you and I have made both our points clear and I'll respect your order. EDIT: Apologies for derailing/offending anyone.