Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[ganpondorodf]

Is there even, in this day and age, any need for fan clubs?

[Sycsa]

Is there even, in this day and age, any need for fan clubs?

There isn't. And none of those so called "fan clubs" will amount to anything. This entire project reeks of delusion of grandeur, from "revolutionizing to genre" right up to this point.

This would have been a more fitting album cover:

[The Walrus]

The Indonesia fan club is booming, though. 7 likes. 

[Nekov]

 

[gzarruk]

The Indonesia fan club is booming, though. 7 likes. 

 

[Sycsa]

The new kings of prog metal.

[bosk1]

For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/

Thanks for posting.  My reaction:  Yeah, more of the same abject lack of class we've seen from Derek in the last couple of months.  They managed to put together a "very good" collection of songs.  But honestly, Derek's and Mike's conduct leading up to this release makes me seriously regret my offers of support that I have given them over the years.  The backlash they have been getting is well-deserved.

[The Walrus]

"... But I think most of his fans want to hear him playing prog metal, the genre he helped invent."

As Stadler says, and which I've taken a shine to, "mofo, please."

[MirrorMask]

For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/

"Dream Theater have sat on the top of the progressive metal thronr for the last 20 years and been completely unchalleged until now. But now this is the era of the Sons"

The scene (often used for a meme) of Morgan Freeman confronting the would be blackmailer in The Dark Knight comes to mind.

"So, you think Dream Theater are the undisputed champions of prog metal... and your plan is to challenge them with Psychotic Symphony? good luck with that" 

Sorry, as said elsewhere I actually do like the album, I don't love it to death but I enjoy it a lot, but this is the first thing that came into my mind while reading that 

[bosk1]

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

[Dave_Manchester]

Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in one of the threads, but has there been any word from the band on why they've left such a big gap between their album release and the start of touring? Or at least can someone with experience of the industry speculate why it may have been organized this way? Is this a usual practice among new bands with debut releases (for example to get a sense of how popular it is so they can gauge what kind of venues to book)? If scheduling conflicts is the reason (MP is doing Shattered Fortress in Australia soon), then would it have made better business sense to release the album next January, just before they hit the road? It just feels like the whole thing has gone to sleep now, the album received a fairly tepid reception (relative to its hype) and the band are just waiting around. Even Derek's jabs and braggadocio shtick have a half-hearted feel to them now. Seems strange they didn't start touring when the band was at least getting some coverage.

[Madman Shepherd]

Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in one of the threads, but has there been any word from the band on why they've left such a big gap between their album release and the start of touring? Or at least can someone with experience of the industry speculate why it may have been organized this way? Is this a usual practice among new bands with debut releases (for example to get a sense of how popular it is so they can gauge what kind of venues to book)? If scheduling conflicts is the reason (MP is doing Shattered Fortress in Australia soon), then would it have made better business sense to release the album next January, just before they hit the road? It just feels like the whole thing has gone to sleep now, the album received a fairly tepid reception (relative to its hype) and the band are just waiting around. Even Derek's jabs and braggadocio shtick have a half-hearted feel to them now. Seems strange they didn't start touring when the band was at least getting some coverage.

I brought this up before. Yeah shattered Fortress and also Jeff is doing Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Doesn't seem wise to wait to tour but they had no choice since they were juggling 87 other bands. Funny thing is, Portnoy has said that it has never been a problem juggling those 87 bands but I would say this is a pretty big problem.

[PetFish]

The only thing left for MP and DS to do to completely destroy their legacies is to co-write the book "How to Completely Destroy your Legacy".

[bill1971]

Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in one of the threads, but has there been any word from the band on why they've left such a big gap between their album release and the start of touring? Or at least can someone with experience of the industry speculate why it may have been organized this way? Is this a usual practice among new bands with debut releases (for example to get a sense of how popular it is so they can gauge what kind of venues to book)? If scheduling conflicts is the reason (MP is doing Shattered Fortress in Australia soon), then would it have made better business sense to release the album next January, just before they hit the road? It just feels like the whole thing has gone to sleep now, the album received a fairly tepid reception (relative to its hype) and the band are just waiting around. Even Derek's jabs and braggadocio shtick have a half-hearted feel to them now. Seems strange they didn't start touring when the band was at least getting some coverage.

I brought this up before. Yeah shattered Fortress and also Jeff is doing Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Doesn't seem wise to wait to tour but they had no choice since they were juggling 87 other bands. Funny thing is, Portnoy has said that it has never been a problem juggling those 87 bands but I would say this is a pretty big problem.

I would say there is no way Jeff would skip TSO. That is a very good gig I would imagine and probably steady money for years to come. I am surprised MP has not tried to get involved in them.

[bill1971]

It's okay. Sons will be lucky to get through 2018. Quote me on this, Mike will be announcing another 'main band' or departure from Sons a year from now, or the band will split entirely, complete with a rant on nobody buying records anymore and the industry is shit etc.

He wont say they broke up, he will say they are on hiatus or a break and will still count it as one of his 678 bands.

[bill1971]

For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/

"Dream Theater have sat on the top of the progressive metal thronr for the last 20 years and been completely unchalleged until now. But now this is the era of the Sons"

The scene (often used for a meme) of Morgan Freeman confronting the would be blackmailer in The Dark Knight comes to mind.

"So, you think Dream Theater are the undisputed champions of prog metal... and your plan is to challenge them with Psychotic Symphony? good luck with that" 

Sorry, as said elsewhere I actually do like the album, I don't love it to death but I enjoy it a lot, but this is the first thing that came into my mind while reading that 

Please. Next to None has a better chance of dethroning DT simply by outlasting them.  The guys in Next to None are fairly young. Not a huge fan but at least they seem like cool kids.

[rumborak]

Those guys are all in their 50s at this point. Nobody is dethroning anybody, unless we're talking about the porcelaine throne here.

[The Walrus]

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-was-miserable-playing-tiny-little-clubs-with-adrenaline-mob/

So, sorry for throwing more fuel on the fire, but I think this is legitimately interesting conversation fodder. Mike is quite obviously annoyed by this Blabbermouth article's headline, but check out these snippets re: Sons of Apollo's debut:

"We entered the studio March 1, and by March 10, the record was completely written and the basic tracks were done. It was fast. We banged it out in ten days. Not that we did a rush-job or anything, but it was all that was needed. ... Once that process was done — I don't want to make it sound like the whole record was done in ten days. It was just the writing, because then there were many, many months of overdubs and working on the vocals and the lyrics with Jeff Scott Soto [vocals], so it was an ongoing process.

The first part irks me, the second part also irks me because, well, you baked the cake in 10 days, yes - you just spent months adding the frosting and sprinkles. I would've rather seen the cake baked for months, with focus on the sprinkles at the end. This confirms exactly what I believed about the songwriting...

On whether he ever has a desire to play "random basement" gigs:

Mike: "No. I hate that stuff. [Laughs] There's been a couple situations through the last few years where I was playing tiny little clubs — I did one with METAL ALLEGIANCE, and I did a bunch with ADRENALINE MOB — and honestly, I was miserable. [Laughs]."

To that, he says if you read it in that context it isn't bad - but that's exactly what it sounds like. How is he going to feel playing to clubs of a few hundred people during the SoA tour? He IS going to be miserable, he's a 50 year old world famous rock drummer going from arenas and opening for Maiden to this... Check those sales figures at the bottom... ouch.

EDIT: He even commented on the article himself! Mike... stop.... 

[ganpondorodf]

Yeah I saw him causing a stink about it being taken out of context, which... Yeah.

[bosk1]

"We entered the studio March 1, and by March 10, the record was completely written and the basic tracks were done. It was fast. We banged it out in ten days. Not that we did a rush-job or anything, but it was all that was needed. ... Once that process was done — I don't want to make it sound like the whole record was done in ten days. It was just the writing, because then there were many, many months of overdubs and working on the vocals and the lyrics with Jeff Scott Soto [vocals], so it was an ongoing process.

The first part irks me, the second part also irks me because, well, you baked the cake in 10 days, yes - you just spent months adding the frosting and sprinkles. I would've rather seen the cake baked for months, with focus on the sprinkles at the end. This confirms exactly what I believed about the songwriting...

I have never had a problem with that.  However long it took to write an album, if the songs are good, they are good.  I am not going to enjoy them less because they were written in a shorter amount of time than some fans think it should have taken.  That approach has worked for DT and Mike's projects in the past.  And if it works, great.  I'm not sure what there is to be "irked" about.

On whether he ever has a desire to play "random basement" gigs:

Mike: "No. I hate that stuff. [Laughs] There's been a couple situations through the last few years where I was playing tiny little clubs — I did one with METAL ALLEGIANCE, and I did a bunch with ADRENALINE MOB — and honestly, I was miserable. [Laughs]."

To that, he says if you read it in that context it isn't bad - but that's exactly what it sounds like. How is he going to feel playing to clubs of a few hundred people during the SoA tour? He IS going to be miserable, he's a 50 year old world famous rock drummer going from arenas and opening for Maiden to this... Check those sales figures at the bottom... ouch.

Yeah, unrealistic expectations on his part if he thinks he is going to be playing medium theaters or better anytime soon.  I don't see it happening.

[ganpondorodf]

This tour is a camera crew away from being a Spinal Tap sequel

[The Walrus]

bosk, that's fine. It doesn't bother me if other fans like that approach. Me? Not so much. I almost never spin Systematic Chaos, Black Clouds, I think I played Metal Allegiance literally one time and struggled to get through the whole thing. Flying Colors and Winery Dogs sound much more thought out to me. I cannot stand the get-in-and-out approach to writing music, so that's why I dislike it with Sons of Apollo so much, you can't just go in and throw shit at the wall to see what sticks and claim you're revolutionizing prog. Just my two cents. I like my prog metal worked on. (and if DT's done it for DT12 and ADTOE, that would explain why I dislike so many songs on those albums compared to earlier DT albums)

[pcs90]

I have never had a problem with that.  However long it took to write an album, if the songs are good, they are good.  I am not going to enjoy them less because they were written in a shorter amount of time than some fans think it should have taken.  That approach has worked for DT and Mike's projects in the past.  And if it works, great.  I'm not sure what there is to be "irked" about.

That's the thing, many people don't feel that it works at all.
I really don't care if they wrote a song in 5 minutes or 5 months as long as it sounds good, but a lot of the stuff using MP's method of writing does not sound as good as it could have in my opinion.

[bosk1]

and if DT's done it for DT12 and ADTOE, that would explain why I dislike so many songs on those albums compared to earlier DT albums)

How about Awake?  Train of Thought?  ...

[The Walrus]

and if DT's done it for DT12 and ADTOE, that would explain why I dislike so many songs on those albums compared to earlier DT albums)

How about Awake?  Train of Thought?  ...

Better DT albums, but I never listen to ToT anymore except Vacant. Awake is probably the exception, if it was written and recorded that quickly. It's not a blanket rule, there are of course exceptions, but mostly, I dislike the approach, it has rarely paid off for me by any band or musician. Although there are songs on Awake I dislike, too.

[bosk1]

and if DT's done it for DT12 and ADTOE, that would explain why I dislike so many songs on those albums compared to earlier DT albums)

How about Awake?  Train of Thought?  ...

Better DT albums, but I never listen to ToT anymore except Vacant. Awake is probably the exception, if it was written and recorded that quickly. It's not a blanket rule, there are of course exceptions, but mostly, I dislike the approach, it has rarely paid off for me by any band or musician. Although there are songs on Awake I dislike, too.

I'm just saying, I bet there are a lot more instances of albums being written that way than you realize.  Virtually every DT album has been written that way other than WDADU, I&W, FII, and TA.  I think that, in general, people think that writing that way is more of a problem than it actually is.

[The Walrus]

I know that, and that was going through my head as I typed it. But, I wrote that because generally, as I've researched albums I enjoy or don't enjoy, I've noticed the trend that quickly written albums are ones I dislike, or don't listen to much. There are exceptions.

But, specifically, with regards to MP's get-in-and-out approach in the later days of DT - SC was about the point I noticed that trend, and it's more apparent with each MP release, to me.

[Peace and Love]

Here's some fresh Del Fuvian Bravado (TM) for us:

Here is the breakdown of my "Alive" solo on @SonsOfApollo1 - you can hear that I downloaded my BallsWiz app!😜

https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/928517844404277248

[bosk1]

But, specifically, with regards to MP's get-in-and-out approach in the later days of DT - SC was about the point I noticed that trend, and it's more apparent with each MP release, to me.

Fair enough.  And although I personally disagree, you are definitely not alone in feeling a shift at that point in time.  I am not sure it is attributable to the writing process itself, but I understand where you are coming from nonetheless.

[KevShmev]

What is more in Mike Portnoy's head: Blabbermouth or this forum? 

It's gotta be neck and neck!!

[Sycsa]

Each South Park episode is made in 6 days, from writing it from scratch to animating it and doing the voices, they knock it all out in less than a week every time. Trey Parker said that time crunch is good for creativity, and if he had all the time in the world, he'd dick around with every episode infinitely longer, and in the end it would end up like 5% better. I think this approach was great for South Park (even though it went downhill the last couple of seasons or so), it kept the show fresh, current, and it maintained spontaneity.

The same principle could be applied to music. DT worked infinitely longer on FII than on SFAM, for instance. So I agree, whatever the approach is, it's not inherently good or bad.

However, the problem with many of Mike's projects (SoA is a prime example in that), is that it's obvious that it was a rushed, rough-and-ready effort. The songs are unoriginal and they're copy-pasted together, the lyircs are as generic as they get, Mike has his "bag of tricks" he randomly fills up the songs with. To me, it's obvious that the album would have benefited a lot if they had worked more on it (way more), especially since it's their first time playing together. The music has no real depth.

[Adami]

Person A being good at activity X doesn't mean person B is equally good at activity X.

[Sycsa]

Person A being good at activity X doesn't mean person B is equally good at activity X.

Or, in this case, if person A managed to pull it off a few times, it doesn't mean that he always can / that it's always the best approach for him.

Mike seems to think that this is the best approach to write songs, and it doesn't look like he wants to try something different. He's a numbers guy: "look at how many bands I'm in, and look at how little time it takes to write these albums." He talks about Yellow Matter Custard or Cygnus and The Sea Monsters as if they were real bands. I mean, this is his FB cover photo now, the list is inflated with DT demos & bootlegs. Definitely looks like there's a "quality vs. quantity" problem here.

[ReaperKK]

It's okay. Sons will be lucky to get through 2018. Quote me on this, Mike will be announcing another 'main band' or departure from Sons a year from now, or the band will split entirely, complete with a rant on nobody buying records anymore and the industry is shit etc.

I don't really care for this band, but I feel confident they will have one more album in them. Possibly a slight lineup  change between now and then, but definitely a 2nd album and even a live DVD.

Curious, if there was a line up change who do you think would leave?

[Adami]

It's okay. Sons will be lucky to get through 2018. Quote me on this, Mike will be announcing another 'main band' or departure from Sons a year from now, or the band will split entirely, complete with a rant on nobody buying records anymore and the industry is shit etc.

I don't really care for this band, but I feel confident they will have one more album in them. Possibly a slight lineup  change between now and then, but definitely a 2nd album and even a live DVD.

Curious, if there was a line up change who do you think would leave?

Good question. Definitely not Derek. I figured Ron was able to put up with Axle, so it'll be hard to make him leave. Sheehan? I dunno, possibly. My money would either be on JSS or MP oddly enough.